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VW-IceFire
05-13-2004, 07:47 PM
I've only recently really become aware of the Spitfire VIII and its contribution in the Pacific theater. Seems quite a few were flown by the RAAF as well as the RAF and that its been subjectively termed "the best Spitfire to fly".

So for those who maybe know a bit more or have some resources I don't...could anyone fill me in on the Spitfire VIII's performance in comparison to other Spitfire versions (such as the IX which seems to be a close cousin) on everything from range to speed.

I guess the other even more interesting question will be if we'll see this in Pacific Fighters. Anyone heard any rumors? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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VW-IceFire
05-13-2004, 07:47 PM
I've only recently really become aware of the Spitfire VIII and its contribution in the Pacific theater. Seems quite a few were flown by the RAAF as well as the RAF and that its been subjectively termed "the best Spitfire to fly".

So for those who maybe know a bit more or have some resources I don't...could anyone fill me in on the Spitfire VIII's performance in comparison to other Spitfire versions (such as the IX which seems to be a close cousin) on everything from range to speed.

I guess the other even more interesting question will be if we'll see this in Pacific Fighters. Anyone heard any rumors? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

biggs222
05-13-2004, 11:07 PM
it performed very similar to the mkIX expecially the later batch of mkIXs (merlin66)

the VIII had the 66 as well. it was a bit heavier due to streanghtened body and retarctable tail wheel acrobatics was sightly wrosened due to the weight increase, but this is a spitfire we are talkign about so it wasnt much.

but i do remember reading about the mkVIII againt KI43 "oscar". the extramly light oscar was not to be faught in turn fights because the spit could not out turn it, but rather use the much better climbing and diving capability against the ki43.

all in all the Spitfire mkVIII was the same as the LFmkIX in terms of performance it had slight body modifications but the two planes were pretty much the same.

gombal40
05-14-2004, 02:59 AM
[URL=http://www.odyssey.dircon.co.uk/pacspitfire.htm]
http://www.odyssey.dircon.co.uk/spitfire8.jpg

ploughman
05-14-2004, 03:58 AM
The Spit VIII, although numerically prior to the Mk IX, came out after it.

The MK IX was, basically, an up-engined MK V, designed as stop gap to deal with the excellent FW-190. Although The MK IX began to incorporate many features, such as the pointy tail fin etc later in the production run, during initial confrontations, Luftwaffe pilots couldn't tell if they were engaging MK Vs or MK IXs untill the Spit's performance gave it away. The MK IX was the largest production run of the Spits, and was therefore the definitive Spit in Europe.

The Mk VIII, which as a designed progression, rather than an improvisation, incorporated lots of novel stuff like a retractable tail wheel etc, and had a groovy air-filter that made it suitable for the filth of desert or tropical air-fields, as such it didn't really fight in the clean air of N Europe, instead it winged its way to foreign fields in S. Asia, Oz, etc.

In a way I guess you could say the IX was a way to get MK VIII performance without actually waiting for the MK VIII, the Mk VIII not coming out untill the August of '43.

link to a brief history of Spits V-IX (http://www.btinternet.com/~lee_mail/spitfire2.html) etc.

ploughman
05-14-2004, 04:06 AM
Oh yeah, this link shows performance variations for Spit types.Testing & Perfromance (http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/spittest.html)

stansdds
05-14-2004, 04:44 AM
Yeah, but nothing compares to the Corsair!

Now that'll start a flame war!!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

ploughman
05-14-2004, 05:30 AM
Yeah? Well, we'll see now won't we?

I'm looking forward to the Corsair though, what a beast.

If you're really interested check the pilot training vid available at this link. The site has one for the A-20 Havoc too. It seems to recommend not eating pork chops before flying upside down.F-4U How to fly video (http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/F4U.html)

WOLFMondo
05-14-2004, 05:33 AM
Bung a Griffon 65 in it and you get a XIV! A plane I'd like to see as much as a VIII.

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VW-IceFire
05-14-2004, 06:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stansdds:
Yeah, but nothing compares to the Corsair!

Now that'll start a flame war!!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Its like a FW190...if the Corsair turns with the Spit the Spit will win. Vice versa and the Corsair will win. Although the margin of speed between the two isn't all that different till they reach 20,000 feet as far as I recall.

Good to know about the VIII. So not substantially different than the IX model...I noticed it is a bit longer and the engine seems to be mounted slightly further forward.

Very interesting indeed! Were they all 'c' type or were some 'e' type wing/armament.

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RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

nutt3r
05-14-2004, 07:04 AM
heres abit about the viii i found http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
"The spitfire mkvii was basically an unpressurized version of the mkvii intended for low level air superiority operations. Production reached a total of 1658 aircraft, almost all of which served in the Far East and Australia. The major production version was the LF.VIII, with a merlin 66 engine; the other two variants, the F.VIII and HF.VIII, were respectively fitted with Merlin 61/63 and Merlin 70 engines."

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Arm_slinger
05-14-2004, 08:00 AM
Hopefully Nyme continued with his MkIX conversion to the VIII and that we may see it in PF http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

242Sqn_Kye-
Pilot of 242 Squadron

Sim lover?, want something new? Then look at "Target for Tonight the definitive night bombing simulation ever, featuring the RAF's Bomber Command.

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biggs222
05-14-2004, 01:13 PM
hey iCe where did u see that the mkVIII was longer then the mkIX AFAIK they are the same length and the engines are mounted in the same position...there were practially no external modifications added to the mkVIII to make it look different then the mkIX (baring the retractable tail wheel)

what i want to know is where there any mkVIIIs with the "E" armament 2x 20mms and 2x .50cal mgs?? AFAIK it only used the "c" armament.

VW-IceFire
05-14-2004, 02:04 PM
Well its a funny thing because I can't exactly figure it out.

According to Squadron Signals Spitfire book it says the Mark VII incorporated some changes. It says:

"To accomodate longer engine mounts, the fuselage of the Mark VII was stretched to 31 ft 3.5 in with the early rounded rudder..."

And then under the Mark VIII section:

"...the Spitfire Mk VIII was an unpressurized Mk VII."

So I was feeling confident in the VIII being longer than the Mark I/II/V/IX/XVI bunch.

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Destraex
05-14-2004, 05:32 PM
anyone got any actual history of their actions in the pacific. It seems to me the spits saw very little action in the Pacific and the Aussie spits were kept in the backwaters esp near the end

biggs222
05-14-2004, 08:01 PM
Burma my friend Burma....west part of the "pacific" theatre. mkVIII's flew out of land bases in burma.
dont forget that mkXIVs flew too!!! Fievels mkXIV should be put in PF as well!!!!

Also the "Seafires" flew off of brit carriers the Seafire mkIIIc being closly related to the mkIX.

RAC_Pips
05-14-2004, 08:02 PM
Differences between the Mk.IX and the Mk.VIII Spitfire were as follows.

The Mk.VIII had the 60 series two-speed, two stage Merlins, six exhaust ports, four bladed propellor, symmetrical underwing radiators and a longer nose compared t to the Mk.IX. In addition the Mk.VIII had a considerably structurally redesigned and strengthened fuselage with a revised 'C' wing incorporating shorter span ailerons and extra fuel tanks in the wings. A retractable tail wheel was fitted, along with a taller pointed fina dn rudder for greater stability in dive. All Mk.VIII's were tropicalised on production, having a slightly larger carburettor under the nose.

Max Speed
Mk.IX 408 @ 25,000ft
Mk.VIII 404 @ 21,000ft

Climb
Time To 20,000ft 6.7min
(same for both aircraft)

Range
Mk.IX 980 miles with drop tanks
Mk.VIII 1180 miles with drop tanks

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Destraex:
anyone got any actual history of their actions in the pacific. It seems to me the spits saw very little action in the Pacific and the Aussie spits were kept in the backwaters esp near the end<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In all six squadrons were equipped with the Mk.VIII, namely 54, 79, 452, 457, 548 and 549. Re-equipment stared in April'44. The first four Squadrons moved onto Morotai Island in the Halmaheras Group in late Spetember '44, while the last two remained in Darwin, Australia.

Operations were mostly of the mopping up type in the region, with little air action. Although several claims were made over the Celebes and and timor. Most actions were land and barge strikes and bomber escort in the direction of Ambon and the Celebes. Occasional escorts were flown in the direction of the southern Philipines.

[This message was edited by RAC_Pips on Fri May 14 2004 at 07:19 PM.]

biggs222
05-14-2004, 08:08 PM
everythign is right in pips post except the max speed part.
BOTH mkIX and mkVIII had the same speed. the 404mph at 21000 ft is the rating of the merlin66 engine which was used in the LFmkIX as well as the LFmkVIII.

basically the main difference is the ailerons and the strengthened fuselage in the mkVIII. the carb filter was also the same size as the later mkIX. the earlier mkIX still had the small "mkV" type intake. it was chanded to the larger one in '43 i believe.

Zyzbot
05-14-2004, 08:09 PM
There is some info in the book "Late Marque Spitfire Aces 1942-1945".

According to this bok Mk VIII arrived at the end of 1943 in Eastern India. Initially there was not much action except for interceptions of Ki-46 "Dinah" recon aircraft.

Feb 1944 the Spitfires were used to establish air superiority when the Japanese launched an attack in the Arakan area. Three Spitfire Mk VIII nits were sent to a forward airfield near Ramu, which is close to the india/Burma border.

According to the book... they fought against Ki-44 and Ki-43 aircraft and inflicted heavy losses on the Japanese.


The book says that the Mk VIII was also sent to Australia in Oct 1943 (over 400 eventually received). Some were later transferred to New Guinea. Apparently they were used mosrtly in ground support and did not encounter Japanese aircraft very often.

RAC_Pips
05-14-2004, 08:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by biggs222:
everythign is right in pips post except the max speed part.
BOTH mkIX and mkVIII had the same speed. the 404mph at 21000 ft is the rating of the merlin66 engine which was used in the LFmkIX as well as the LFmkVIII. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Like everything to do with Spits and Merlins that isn't quite so cut and dried. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The F.IX had a 1,565hp Merlin 61 with a 2-stage, 2-speed supercharger and +15lb max boost, or a 1,710hp Merlin 63 with +18lb max boost. Both engines were optomised for mid to high altitude performance, which gave the F.IX a max speed of 408mph @ 25,000ft.

The LF.IX had a 1,720hp Merlin 66 2-speed, 2-stage supercharger with +18lb max boost. It was optomised for low altitude wqrok at attained a best speed of 404 mph @ 21,000ft.

Then there was the H.IX which had a 1,710hp Merlin 70 with a max boost of +18lbs. It was tuned for high altitude work and achieved at max speed of 416mph @ 27,500ft.

Now the Mk.F.VIII also did 408 @ 25,000ft. But Australia received (initially) the Mk.LF.VIII version, which had a max speed of 404mph @ 21,000ft.

In total Australia received 243 LF.VIII's, 9 F.VIII's and 158 HF.VIII's. 120 of the final 158 HF.VIII's went straight into storage. They never saw combat. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

biggs222
05-14-2004, 08:44 PM
oh and the mkVIIIs flew out of bases in India to attck Burma....i wonder if those maps will be in PF...india and south china, that would be cool

biggs222
05-15-2004, 08:03 PM
BUMP for the Spitfire mkVIII!!

Arm_slinger
05-16-2004, 07:14 AM
Do we know if anyone is doing it?? Last i heard Nyme was converting his superb models into another Spit varient, one of which was a MkVIII

242Sqn_Kye-
Pilot of 242 Squadron

Sim lover?, want something new? Then look at "Target for Tonight the definitive night bombing simulation ever, featuring the RAF's Bomber Command.

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Also the home of 242 Squadron

VW-IceFire
05-16-2004, 07:25 AM
I guess we'll find out soon enough...Luthier did say that post E3 we'd be finding out a more official plane list.

Perhaps next week they can oblige us and show us some Spit pictures!

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biggs222
05-16-2004, 02:24 PM
Bump to find out from luthier

biggs222
05-17-2004, 01:05 PM
bump, cmon luthier...ya or nay on the mkVIII?

VW-IceFire
05-17-2004, 06:00 PM
He's probably busy and cannot confirm on this one yet anyways. Marketing takes prescendence when you work on stuff like this.

Give him time.

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RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"