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ZG77_Nagual
03-09-2004, 03:58 PM
The q10 appears less prone to spins that the p63 - maybe I'm just used to it but near as I can tell the p39 is still my fav dogfighter.

ZG77_Nagual
03-09-2004, 03:58 PM
The q10 appears less prone to spins that the p63 - maybe I'm just used to it but near as I can tell the p39 is still my fav dogfighter.

Korolov
03-09-2004, 04:07 PM
Except for the fact that the P-63 has kick arse high altitude capability over all P-39s.

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SlickStick
03-09-2004, 04:13 PM
I prefer the Q1 for some reason. I just feel the .50s being more effective coming from those wing pods. I like the feel of the Q1, too. Q10 probably performs better, but I don't seem to be as effective shooting in it as the Q1. Maybe I need more practice.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

It's interesting how the P39 has become "tame" compared to the old IL2 P39. Speaking of which, I jumped in a P63 the other night and proceeded to yank it into an unrecoverable flat spin and realized, as I was spiraling towards earth, wow, this feels like the old P39.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

P39 is certainly one of the better dogfighters, but can be out run relatively easily by the other big dogs in AEP. However, P39s are my third choice for dogfighting and here's my Top 5 favorite DFers in AEP:

1. LA7

2. Ki-84

3. P39-Q1

4. Spitfire LF CW

5. 109-G2

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crazyivan1970
03-09-2004, 04:34 PM
Yeah P-39 still a great bird... but P-63 is a new terror of LW IMO. Very impressive in vertical and everywhere else. But not as good in turnfight as Q10 IMO.

V!
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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Magister__Ludi
03-09-2004, 05:02 PM
Yep, that's a problem. Oleg still likes to think P39 as a uberturningplane, which it never was. Not only that it had balancing problems, with CG too far aft (problems that are not at all present in the game), but also turn performance is exagerated, just like turn performance of any plane that VVS flew. P-39 had exactly the same turn performance with Bf-109G, same turning radius but much poorer handling.

Now instead of 20 sec per 360 degrees sustained turn you got 18 sec. But this is not singular. All Yaks, Laggs and Las share the same behaviour: all yaks I tested turn 2 seconds faster than they should (Yak9 16 sec instead of 18 sec, Yak9U 17-18 sec instead of 20 sec and so on), same for Lavochkins. This is becoming really anoying. Instead of fixing the Yak3 and La7 they overmodelled the rest of the Yaks once again. In FB 1.0 we all Yaks were just like now in AEP, but they were fixed in subsequent patches to 18 sec turn time all of them except Yak3 which turned in 16 sec. The real life turn performance was 18 sec for Yak1b/Yak9, 20-21 Yak1, 19 sec for Yak3.

This is how legends are born. Until now this happened with books, now it can be done with computer games. Not only that Yak3 was not the uberturner that Oleg pictures it, it never was the best turning Yak. It was prefered to Yak1b/Yak9 because it was faster and better climbing, but it turned worse than those two. What's even more important is that Yak3 production was discontinued after the war, whereas Yak9U derivatives saw a few years more of production; Yak9U turned worse than Yak3 but had offered better speed at higher altitudes, better protection and ammo load, showing that even VVS abandoned the obsolete doctrine of turnfighting.

crazyivan1970
03-09-2004, 05:08 PM
I thought it was P-39 thread... what Yak?

V!
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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Magister__Ludi
03-09-2004, 05:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
I thought it was P-39 thread... what Yak?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Read it like this: P-39 turn performance is overmodelled just like Yak's turn performance: they complete the 360 degrees turn 2 seconds faster than they should. P-63 on the other hand seems right: 20 sec turn time.

So everytime you would like to take the P-39 because it turns better in FB, think that it is overmodelled and P-63 offers a better, more realistic model you can choose to fly. Too bad that P-63 is 20km/h faster than it should at low level. Considering that Bf-109K is 30km/h slower at sea level, Ta-152 20km/h slower and so on, it usually gives 50km/h in addition to the real world performance. That should be saddening but I all I see here is people happy with such exploits. Well, the Crimson Skies crowd.

crazyivan1970
03-09-2004, 05:22 PM
You know man... people like you amaze me...really. What`s the point of being here if most of the stuff are Crimson Skies alike? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif BTW I know who you are..so i am not surprized http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

V!
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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Magister__Ludi
03-09-2004, 05:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
You know man... people like you amaze me...really. What`s the point of being here if most of the stuff are Crimson Skies alike? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif BTW I know who you are..so i am not surprized http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Crazyivan, do you disagree with the some specific data I posted on this thread? If you do, please point at it.

crazyivan1970
03-09-2004, 05:41 PM
I disagree with comments, flying LW exclusively since IL-2 beta i never looked at the numbers... and not about to look at it again. Seriously... at this point LW has so many toys that can deal with soviet fighters that it`s not significant anymore. Concept for me is simple.. i lose battles to soviet fighters here and there because i made a mistake, not because they 20 km faster then they should be or turn too good. But that`s just me. Different people different apporaches. Every plane in this game is overmodeled to some extent...why bother going into the battle over 20km/h when all planes invloved. As far as LW goes, we shouldn`t complain at all now... Just my 02c

V!
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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Magister__Ludi
03-09-2004, 05:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
I disagree with comments, flying LW exclusively since IL-2 beta i never looked at the numbers... and not about to look at it again. Seriously... at this point LW has so many toys that can deal with soviet fighters that it`s not significant anymore. Concept for me is simple.. i lose battles to soviet fighters here and there because i made a mistake, not because they 20 km faster then they should be or turn too good. But that`s just me. Different people different apporaches. Every plane in this game is overmodeled to some extent...why bother going into the battle over 20km/h when all planes invloved. As far as LW goes, we shouldn`t complain at all now... Just my 02c
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'm tired of this kind of argument. I never said that LW planes as they are in the game right now cannot be used in an effective manner, I've only said that russian planes are overmodelled, and they are even more overmodelled in AEP than they were in 1.22. That you're are not interested to look into the numbers does not make russian fighters less overmodelled, and is not a reason for me not to ask for an accurate representation of all planes.
If you don't like FM/DM discussion, you probably know that presence is not mandatory on these threads. Thanks for your understanding.

crazyivan1970
03-09-2004, 05:57 PM
Fair enough

V!
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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

BuzzU
03-09-2004, 06:14 PM
I would like to see the charts that say the Yak1b turns better than the Yak3. All my charts say different.

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