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View Full Version : (jet-newbie?) Me262 questions...



XyZspineZyX
10-13-2003, 04:51 PM
Hello,

Just started a SP campaign with JaBo 262s. Although "started" sounds optimistic http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif (I thus (attempt to) *fly* the Me-262A-2a mostly armed with 2x SC250s)

{amusing jet newbie part}

I managed to flame out the engines even before taking off at all the first time I tried it... now that's not really hard http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I managed to skid off the runway because I selected only one engine...

I managed to crash after pulling up too sharp because the runway ended...

I managed to bumpediebump into the countryside and finally take off from that...

I managed to get airborne because I learned to hold the wheel brakes and revv up the engines to about 85% and then take off..

...only to crash while attempting to land...

My field now must look a bit like this:
http://www.78thfightergroup.com/history/me262down.jpg


{/amusing jet newbie part}

==============
Ok, here's the more serious stuff. I've been quite used to the "ordinairy" propfighters, although time is lacking a *bit* to get really better/good.

My questions about the 262:

Should you be able to steer with the nose gear, like the P-39? It is quite possible to steer with the engines as well, but that's quite messy when taking off.
The rudder will work from about 30-40kph upwards, so it's not really a big problem, just wondering.

Not specific 262, but how can I avoid that my AI wingies are going to turn with VVS planes?? I know this is an issue with AI, but I'd like to have some workaround or so.
The best I can do, is take up a decent position from above and order them to attack, then after hearing them yell out victories I order them to rejoin. With the 262s speed, the idea is nice, (sucks when using prop fighters, but works much better with all planes when doing ground attacks!) but they don't really seem to rejoin.

And, how come, when I have a Jumo004 engine flame out (being my fault or some Soviet put bullets in it) I dive to exctinguish the fire and it goes out, then I switch off the problem engine and after a while it suddenly starts to burn again? There may be a logic, can be 2 ways:

-engine fire goes out because of the dive there is no oxygen left;
-engine fire goes out because the fuel inside the engine is burned away.

The reason for catching fire again may be that there is still some fuel in it and due to the still hot engine it spontaneously starts to burn again. Would seem rather odd after ten minutes and flying 500+km/h in a dive, though.

Oh well, still having loads of fun just trying to master the crate and aim with that odd gunsight position. Let alone doing some skip-bombing... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jeroen

XyZspineZyX
10-13-2003, 04:51 PM
Hello,

Just started a SP campaign with JaBo 262s. Although "started" sounds optimistic http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif (I thus (attempt to) *fly* the Me-262A-2a mostly armed with 2x SC250s)

{amusing jet newbie part}

I managed to flame out the engines even before taking off at all the first time I tried it... now that's not really hard http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I managed to skid off the runway because I selected only one engine...

I managed to crash after pulling up too sharp because the runway ended...

I managed to bumpediebump into the countryside and finally take off from that...

I managed to get airborne because I learned to hold the wheel brakes and revv up the engines to about 85% and then take off..

...only to crash while attempting to land...

My field now must look a bit like this:
http://www.78thfightergroup.com/history/me262down.jpg


{/amusing jet newbie part}

==============
Ok, here's the more serious stuff. I've been quite used to the "ordinairy" propfighters, although time is lacking a *bit* to get really better/good.

My questions about the 262:

Should you be able to steer with the nose gear, like the P-39? It is quite possible to steer with the engines as well, but that's quite messy when taking off.
The rudder will work from about 30-40kph upwards, so it's not really a big problem, just wondering.

Not specific 262, but how can I avoid that my AI wingies are going to turn with VVS planes?? I know this is an issue with AI, but I'd like to have some workaround or so.
The best I can do, is take up a decent position from above and order them to attack, then after hearing them yell out victories I order them to rejoin. With the 262s speed, the idea is nice, (sucks when using prop fighters, but works much better with all planes when doing ground attacks!) but they don't really seem to rejoin.

And, how come, when I have a Jumo004 engine flame out (being my fault or some Soviet put bullets in it) I dive to exctinguish the fire and it goes out, then I switch off the problem engine and after a while it suddenly starts to burn again? There may be a logic, can be 2 ways:

-engine fire goes out because of the dive there is no oxygen left;
-engine fire goes out because the fuel inside the engine is burned away.

The reason for catching fire again may be that there is still some fuel in it and due to the still hot engine it spontaneously starts to burn again. Would seem rather odd after ten minutes and flying 500+km/h in a dive, though.

Oh well, still having loads of fun just trying to master the crate and aim with that odd gunsight position. Let alone doing some skip-bombing... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Jeroen

XyZspineZyX
10-13-2003, 05:14 PM
Some good questions there. Yes you can steer with the nose gear, but it's better and faster to use differetial thrust. You have two engines, rev one higher than the other one, and you'll see yourself turning faster.
About the Jumo engine question, my squad leader has posted the same question in the ORR. No reply so far.
One last thing, consider joining our squadron - 3./Jg51 We fly the Me262 at full realism settings. You don't have to be experienced to fly with us, just be willing to learn. If you're interested, check out our website - www.jg51.com (http://www.jg51.com)

http://www.student.richmond.edu/~vk5qa/images/forumsig.jpg


"Come on in, I'll treat you right. I used to know your daddy."

XyZspineZyX
10-13-2003, 06:25 PM
Yeah, check us out. I bumped our thread in the squadron forum, there is some good info on the 262 there as well. Good Luck.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~fiveds/images/anthony1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-13-2003, 06:30 PM
Hello Spinne,

- Yes you can steer with the nose gear <snip>

How can I do that? In the P-39 the nose gear is linked to the rudder but it does not appear to be so on the 262A-2a. (Haven't checked the A-1 yet)

- but it's better and faster to use
- differetial thrust.

By practise and experimenting I figured that out too, but it's rather clumsy when starting at the runway, holding your brakes, revving up both engines (by which your machine will always misalign a litte). It's quite hard to get the acceleration to 30-40km/h straight on the runway... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- About the Jumo engine question, my squad leader has
- posted the same question in the ORR. No reply so
- far.

Not much of a chance it'll get answered here too, then... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

- One last thing, consider joining our squadron
- 3./Jg51. We fly the Me262 at full realism settings.

Cool!

- You don't have to be experienced to fly with us,
- just be willing to learn.

Sounds like my thing...

- If you're interested,
- check out our website - www.jg51.com (http://www.jg51.com)

Just did, too bad the squad (you?) is(are) on the other side of the atlantic. That would make some awkward times for me as a Dutchman... It would also be quite hard to get a free evening (like this one I'm currently posting at... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ) every week. Guess I got too many hobbies and work. I was doubting to sign up anyway, but when knowing I don't have much time to spare I'd rather do both a favour and don't. Too bad, a full 262 squad sounds like fun and will definately help to improve skills with the beast.

Jeroen

PS I did download the manual from the site, that also helps with landing!

XyZspineZyX
10-13-2003, 06:31 PM
as far as i know steering with the nose wheel on the 262 is impossible... anyone knows how then please post here.

u use brakes and differential engine thrust.

XyZspineZyX
10-13-2003, 09:49 PM
Just tried the A-1. Also, as far as I can see, impossible to steer using the nose gear.

Could the real plane be steered with the nose gear? Would seem strange if it coulnd't.

Also, apperently I'm not the only one that's hardly able to take-off before the runway ends with the A-2 with 2x SC250s (reducing fuel load does help), the AI seems to enjoy the countryside quite well too.

Jeroen

XyZspineZyX
10-13-2003, 10:29 PM
Push forward on the stick until you reach 200 km/h, it seems to steer better with full nose down elevator. Thats how I do it there may be better ways.

"They Gave All Their Tommorrows So That We Can Have Our Todays"

"Whirlwind Whiner"
First Of The Few

XyZspineZyX
10-13-2003, 10:44 PM
I like to put throttle at about 45-50% and when the plane starts moving forward tap or hold down the brake and apply full rudder in the desired direction as needed and she will turn fairly tight. You have to get used to it and sometimes you need to tap/hold tap/hold tap/hold the brake to control her well. Then back down to about 20-30% when you are going in the desired direction. This is easier than using thrust differential though it is a little less "clean."

For takeoff:
-line up on the runway
-flaps to takeoff
-Increase throttle to 45% with brakes on
-wait until rpm gets to 6,000
-release brakes and jam throttle all the way
-pull up *gently (that is the key)* at 210+km/h
-raise gear immediately
-don't worry about overheat
-raise flaps to combat at around 310+km/h
-raise flaps fully at 340+km/h
-lower throttle to about 82% and she will cool off in a short time.

Even after takeoff I wait a good 15 seconds or so to back throttle down, don't let overheat get you nervous.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~fiveds/images/anthony1.jpg



Message Edited on 10/13/0309:54PM by Hunde_3.-JG.51

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 04:04 PM
Hello Hunde,

Thanks for your assistance!

I've tried the procedure for taking off, worked very well, even with full fuel load and two bombs I could at least take off within the runway length. I was always a bit worried about the overheat messages, but indeed also found that it takes quite a while before the engines actually start to burn.

I also didn't know that above 6000rpm you can (more or less) do anything with the throttle.

I've also tried taxiing with the throttle, goes very well! I've assigned the arrow keys left/right to the respective engines and the up key for both as suggested in the 262s manual. Very useful!

BTW, also a very good looking and easy to navigate website.
Like I said, if I had the time to spare to join a squad it would be 3/JG51... (enough sliming now /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )

You don't happen to have any tips on bombing with 600+ km/h? I can actually hit something, but only at lower speed. I have delay set at 2 secs and have tried 30-40? diving as well as level ground-hugging bombing. Is there any recommended tactic?

Thanks again, cool sig by the way!

Jeroen, who can singlehandedly deal with the entire 262 fleet... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 05:23 PM
About safe engine rpm settings, with the patch, Oleg has made some major changes to the 262's engines. In the past over revving would result in an Engine Overheat messege being displayed on the screen, and if you kept it up, the engines would blow off oventually, but you could safely over rev for a long time before worrying about loosing your life because of the engines.
With the patch, it's no longer possible to ignore the engine over-heat messege. Doing so results in engine damage manifesting itself in the form of decreased rpms. The decrease is progressive, so the longer you over rev for, the more your max rpms will drop - permanently! Safe settings are - 86% thrust if your TAS is below 300kph, and 92% above 300kph. You can use 100% thrust for brief bursts upto about 30 sec before suffering from engine damage.
When I ment that you can turn with the nose wheel, I ment that you can do so above ~50 kph using your rudder, without using differential thrust. In the sim, the 262 does not have steerable nose gear. I'm not sure if the real 262 had steerable nose gear.
Hope this helps.

http://www.student.richmond.edu/~vk5qa/images/forumsig.jpg


"Come on in, I'll treat you right. I used to know your daddy."

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 08:21 PM
UR_Spinne wrote:
- In the sim, the 262 does not have steerable nose gear.
- I'm not sure if the real 262 had steerable nose gear.

The few sources I've read, none of which are authoritative enough to document here, all say no.


---
There are 10 kinds of people in this world: those who can count in binary, and those who can't.
(If I knew who said that first, I'd give credit here.)

HL callsign: FruitPieJones, and why not?

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 08:50 PM
Hunde_3.-JG.51 wrote:
- Yeah, check us out. I bumped our thread in the
- squadron forum, there is some good info on the 262
- there as well. Good Luck.
-

Hey, if you need an FW-190D-9/Ta-152H-1 escort, I'm your man! Tell me if you need any, I might have another guy interested in doing the same! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<center>
---------------------------------------
Fokker G.I
http://www.defensie.nl:30280/home/pictures/7370.jpg
http://www.uvika.dn.ua/av/PLANE/HOLLAND/FOKKER_G-1/Fokker_G-1b_03a-n.jpg
</center>

XyZspineZyX
10-15-2003, 10:10 PM
The 262's nose gear wasn't steerable; it only castered -- like a wheel on a shopping cart. I imagine it's because it was originally designed to be a taildragger; it was probably too much to add the nosegear and steering linkage as well.

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 03:42 AM
......just trying to master the crate and aim with that odd gunsight position. Let alone doing some skip-bombing... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



Shift F1 makes the gunsight position a little less odd.

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 04:05 AM
Nice to see the interest in the 262. Red Storm, I'll check with the squadron commander and see what he thinks. I think that would be awesome. And thanks jeroen for compliments on sig and site. The simplicity and layout of the site it was attracted me to this squad. Spinne and Stecher are good mates as well.

As for bombing at 600+km/h I find it easier than when going slower. Normally (in FW-190) I come in at a 40 degree dive or so and release my bombs just as the target falls under my windscreen. At higher speed (in 262) I hold the same angle but release closer to when the target is at the bottom of my windscreen. As long as you hold steady in your attack and keep an angle of around 40 degrees or so this is a very effective way to learn bombing by judging speed and target position in windscreen. This tactic was used by many real-life 190 Jabo pilots, some even when flying only a few meters off the ground.

The 2 second delay is what I always use as well. Hope this helps. Practice and you will become quite proficient I'm sure. Good luck and thanks to all.

Oh, and one other thing if you are flying online. At 81% the Jumos put emit the blue flame, making you easier to spot (amount depends on time of day). At 95% throttle you will emit the twin black trail, making you much easier to spot.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~fiveds/images/anthony1.jpg



Message Edited on 10/16/0303:14AM by Hunde_3.-JG.51

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 04:09 PM
mswantak wrote:
- The 262's nose gear wasn't steerable...<snip>

Thanks for clearing that mystery /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-16-2003, 04:19 PM
@Bluedog: I actually find it harder to hit something due to the large zoom-in and shift of view of the gunsight-view, so I just fly until I almost crash into the enemy and blaze away with everything that's on the 262... Glad I've played WWI sims alot where most planes don't even have a gunsight... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Against bombers etc it's another thing, but aiming in sh+F1 view is especially hard during diving attacks. But if that's how real 262 pilots had to aim, so be it.

@Hunde: Thanks again for your help, I usually preferred to go in fast and low, especially against airfield. That does make it much harder to aim, though. When going up against undefended targets I can usually hit al least someting /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I've also had some more time to tinker with the craft yesterday, and got it to 800+ km/h at about 20 metres... if you press F3 the camera has a hard time following /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Jeroen