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UbiPhobos
10-25-2017, 04:08 PM
Greetings Riders,

Many of you in these forums already have a pretty good handle on Trials gameplay and mechanics. Most of you have probably completed all the in-game tracks. I’m sure more than a few of you have platinum medals on the extreme tracks. Some of you are probably so good at Trials by now that you are seeking out custom creations that up the ante on the difficulty spectrum. For those of us who’ve been playing Trials for a long time it can be easy to forget how hard this game is for new players but for millions of Trials players the struggle is very real. Another thing many of us who are longtime Trials players forget is that we don’t represent the average Trials player in fact we are very far from it. To see where we truly fall on the scale of Trials players let’s look at a few stats.

Less than half of all Fusion players (41.6%) have completed all of the medium events in the base game which demonstrates pretty clearly that the average Trials player already struggles some on Medium tracks. Moving on to Hard tracks the drop off is even more pronounced. Around 15% of Trials Fusion players have completed all the hard events. Finally there’s extreme, the tracks those in the ninja community scoff at as too easy. Only 2.4% of players have completed the extreme tracks through Inferno 4. This means that if you’ve completed all extreme tracks, it doesn’t matter with what time or how many faults, you are well within the top 3% of Trials players globally. If you are leaderboard chasing on these tracks and improving times it’s pretty safe to say you are a Trials One Percenter.

http://static2.ubi.com/pxm/TrialsFusion/TrialsForums/completion-graph.jpg

*Note: These stats were taken before our Games with Gold promotion on Xbox One

We started with these stats for two reasons. First is to highlight how far removed many of us are from the average Trials player. Second is to show how important improving the learning curve is to the future of Trials. If 85% of players are dropping off before completing the main game at least part of the problem could be that they are not getting the knowledge they need to improve.

When we talk about improving the difficulty curve we are not talking about making the game easier. We know that the hard and extreme tracks are the real meat of the game for core players and an important part of the experience. What we want to do is give players the resources they need to overcome the challenge that is Trials. With that in mind let’s take a look back at how this concept has developed over the past few Trials games.

We don’t have to go back far before we get to a Trials game without in-game help. Trials HD didn’t have tutorials, tracks simply got harder and harder as you progressed through the game. If a player in Trials HD started to struggle they either had to seek out help outside of the game or simply stick with it and practice, practice, practice.

http://static2.ubi.com/pxm/TrialsFusion/TrialsForums/HD-track-selection.jpg

In Trials Evolution we made our first attempt to ease the difficulty curve for new players by introducing license tests. These tests were essentially tracks that introduced new obstacles types that would appear in the next set of tracks. These tests included pop-ups with basic instructions on how to complete the maneuvers required. The obstacles themselves were fairly easy versions of what would be coming in the next tier of tracks and as a result it was possible to complete these tests without actually picking up the new skills needed

http://static2.ubi.com/pxm/TrialsFusion/TrialsForums/Evo-license-test.jpg

Next was Trials Fusion. Fusion kept a license test structure similar to Trials Evolution but these new tests, called "Training Programs", introduced narration to help describe the obstacles and skills needed to pass them. While this did help, it was still possible to complete these tests without learning the skills they were intended to teach. The perception of these levels was that they were just a gate, something that was required to pass to unlock new levels. As a result, players tended to go through them as quickly as possible and never return.

http://static2.ubi.com/pxm/TrialsFusion/TrialsForums/Fusion-training-program.jpg

That brings us back to the present and the question at hand is “how can we improve this further?” In discussing the last two games we’ve already identified two weaknesses with the license tests. First one would be that the tests are a bit too easy so they can be passed without learning the skills. Second would be the lack of repetition. Players have no incentive to return to license tests to improve.

There is also a pretty big challenge that we touch upon in our latest Trials Garage Radio Podcast (https://soundcloud.com/user-951041428/trials-garage-radio-4-professor-fatshady-of-the-university-of-trials). It’s impossible to create a one size fits all solution. Some players really want that extra help and instruction while others prefer to figure things out themselves. This adds a whole new layer to the discussion where we want to give players more in depth instruction but we don’t want to make it too overbearing for players who don’t want it. Hear about that and a lot more as we speak with Professor FatShady of the University of Trials in this month’s Trials Garage Radio Podcast.

http://static2.ubi.com/pxm/TrialsFusion/TrialsForums/podcast-banner.jpg (https://soundcloud.com/user-951041428/trials-garage-radio-4-professor-fatshady-of-the-university-of-trials)

Now that we’ve discussed what we’ve done so far and some of the challenges we face, let’s take a look at a few ideas we’ve discussed to improve.
One idea is making tutorials more like skill games including scoring and leaderboards. Instead of a simple pass or fail, players could be scored based on their performance and compete with friends on leaderboards. This would give players a better idea of how well they’ve done and provide more incentive to return to these tutorials and improve these core skills.

Another idea is more focused tutorials that can be spread out to the appropriate points in the career mode. These could be something like the training tracks you sometimes see on Track Central. Instead of a “hard” tutorial that tries to cover all hard skills, there could be separate tutorials for skills like bunny hop, steep hill climbs, transitions, etc. These could be distributed throughout the career progression so that, for example, the bunny hop tutorial comes before the first track where you will need the bunny hop to proceed. Of course something like this would need to be balanced so that there aren’t too many tutorials.

The instructions given through dialogue in Fusion were a step in the right direction but were not as effective as intended. Another advantage to breaking tutorials down to individual skills is that they can start with an optional demonstration of the skill. Again let’s look at the bunny hop as an example, instead of just hearing a short description of what a bunny hop is and how to do it, the player could also see a bunny hop being performed with on screen button inputs similar to what you’d see in a replay.

Finally we think that unlocking new bikes and new difficulties at the same time can make the increase in difficulty too great. This is most noticeable with the agile bike (Pit Viper/Phoenix) and hard difficulty. For players who are still learning the game, the agile bike is hard enough to handle without adding more difficult tracks into the mix at the same time. It could be that unlocking bikes a bit earlier in the progression could help players get a feel for these bikes on easier tracks before they are given tracks where they need some skills on the bike to succeed.

These are a few ideas we’ve had related to easing the difficulty curve for new players. We look forward to hearing your thoughts. We have a pretty short survey this month (https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/DLSJWRH), we would really appreciate if you could take a few minutes to fill that out. We’ll be back next month when we’ll be talking about Trials history and potential on PC. Until then, we’ll see you on the leaderboards.

http://static2.ubi.com/pxm/TrialsFusion/TrialsForums/survey-banner.jpg (https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/DLSJWRH)

fleskeknoke
10-25-2017, 06:14 PM
You can make the "training experience" as complicated as you want if you think that is best for novice riders, and you might be right. Just make sure it's optional.

The "training facility" in the next game should be "in addition to" the core game, dont force experienced riders to go through that thing.
And yes, give us "all" the bikes at the start, at least up to the viper-clone.

If 85% of players are dropping off before completing the main game
and you think you can "fix" this by introducing complicated license tests, (which is not a bad idea at all if you can skip it, move on to the core game, experience that you suck and then go back to this training facility ),
then you really need to make it fun and rewarding. Talk to your creative team about that.

Make ninja an official difficulty
and split up the training into:

Beginner
Intermediate
Expert
Ninja

You dont need more levels than this in the core game either imho.

---

Quote:
We’ll be back next month when we’ll be talking about Trials history and potential on PC....

That sounds like a huge yawn

stooksman
10-25-2017, 09:05 PM
You can make the "training experience" as complicated as you want if you think that is best for novice riders, and you might be right. Just make sure it's optional.

The "training facility" in the next game should be "in addition to" the core game, dont force experienced riders to go through that thing.

I agree with this. Something I'm reminded of is the Batman games - there's combat training that you can access from the main menu that's not connected to the main game, and you can get rewarded/achievements for doing certain things in it, but it's not necessary at all. And from what I've gathered from playing trials over the last few years is that it's a very hard game to both teach and learn. Tutorials can maybe point you in the right direction, but in the end you just have to grind hard and slowly figure it out. If it's fun, people will want to do it on their own and keep at it. If it's tedious, people will be annoyed and play something else. Trials is a unique game... do you think it's possible to design it in a way that will force more gamers to be better riders? I don't know.

onesimpleclik
10-25-2017, 10:31 PM
I have wanted to move onto learning more difficult techniques to allow me to complete Ninja tracks, but haven't been able to find good enough tutorials that explain the techniques properly. I would welcome some in depth tutorials, that include visual how-to's on button/stick movements etc. This could also be done for other skills necessary to play Trials in general.

iwound00
10-25-2017, 10:56 PM
I hate tutorials in game as they tend to stop and take control and make you do something until you pass their test and only then can you continue. When I see them I make this noise "Urgh"

My suggestion would be in level hints. An overlay of a animated rider maybe in the top left of the screen performing the jump or needed skill to complete the jump.
This should also have an option to turn it off.

The animated hint should show what controls are used in the correct sequence etc as it performs the skill needed. But only appear if the rider fails a couple of times.

scottmmmmm
10-26-2017, 01:15 AM
License tests/tutorials were pretty good in evo / fusion. There should definitely be one for each difficulty. But instead of the player unlocking levels linearly - begginer > easy > medium > hard > extreme. The difficulties could all be open from the start (except maybe extreme), with the gate to entry being beating the tutorial. This will even out completion stats a bit.
As for extra help for the player; a practice mode could be added, where they can skip through and practice individual checkpoints on tracks (Yous could add the tutorial treatment to evey single checkpoint). But only to checkpoints they've already reached, so it keeps that sense of progression.
The best difficulty curve is the one chosen by the player.

Other stuff:
- Something as simple as a graphic showing how far they progressed through a level when timing/faulting/quiting out can motivate people to give it another go, see something like cuphead for example.
- If you have the traditional unlock progress like in past games, then I agree - shorter focused tutorials scattered throughout where relevant, will be much more effective than a long cover all bases one at the start.
- Make sure to make it clear that it's ok to let go of RT, new players always try to just brute force inclines and harder stuff.
- I can't remember if it's the case, but if the different difficulties/sections are unlocked by number of medals, change it. MASSIVE demoitivator if people have beat all levels but haven't got enough medals to progress. & I'm thinking this could be one of the main reasons for the drop-off.
- Tournaments should be in the core game.

Braders77UK
10-26-2017, 03:51 AM
Hey Guys & Gals

First off, I'd just like to say it's a great write-up and awesome podcast with Shogun & Fat Shady.

In response to other comments made about the tutorial system, I can understand why more experienced riders would have wanted to skip them, however, I disagree. I feel making the tutorials mandatory was the correct way to go, purely so that newcomers to the game could not skip them and miss information that may have helped them to progress. After all, we only have to do them once, right?

Thanks,
Braders

fleskeknoke
10-26-2017, 11:18 AM
I feel making the tutorials mandatory was the correct way to go, purely so that newcomers to the game could not skip them and miss information that may have helped them to progress.

I think you are partly right but, In my opinion...No,
we are talking about a totalt redesign of the tutorial/training facility into something that are much much deeper (unless i have missed the point)
so manditory is not the way to go.

Think of speed runners (the majority of the players) who use almost all their time in easy medium and hard tracks, grinding away to shave of half a second... Many, if not most of them, are simply not interested in extreme tracks and above.
You cant force them into an elaborated extreme license test, then you will loose players for sure.
The ability to roam freely and jump around at-will in this training program just make more sence.



I would welcome some in depth tutorials, that include visual how-to's on button/stick movements etc. This could also be done for other skills necessary to play Trials in general.

Yes! Absolutely agree.


An overlay of a animated rider maybe in the top left of the screen performing the jump or needed skill to complete the jump.
This should also have an option to turn it off.

The animated hint should show what controls are used in the correct sequence etc as it performs the skill needed. But only appear if the rider fails a couple of times.

Yes! I really like this idea, but instead of top left on screen i think that a ghost-rider on the track that you could mimic through obstacles would be very helpful. (switch on/off)



As for extra help for the player; a practice mode could be added, where they can skip through and practice individual checkpoints on tracks (Yous could add the tutorial treatment to evey single checkpoint). But only to checkpoints they've already reached, so it keeps that sense of progression.
The best difficulty curve is the one chosen by the player.

Yes! Super idea, implement what onesimpleclick and wound said about "include visual how-to's on button/stick movements" and "an overlay of a animated rider" / ghost rider in the track,... then this should work very well.


- Make sure to make it clear that it's ok to let go of RT, new players always try to just brute force inclines and harder stuff.

Yes! It took me forever to realize this, also the same goes for the stick, gentle gentle is the way to go. Very important lesson indeed scottie. This will lift A LOT of players from struggling with extreme tracks.. over to ninja's.

Also....


We’ll be back next month when we’ll be talking about Trials history and potential on PC.

Again...with all respect...
Thats even worse than the Garage topic: "customization"...
Which clearly didnt generate much interest, it should have been merged with the previous thread as it wasnt strong enough to stand alone.

We can talk about the history and pc... Im sure there are some people who would like that, but really, you can merge that tedious stuff with something a little more exciting.
Like the theme and storyline of the next game for instance... Whatever really just to keep this garage somewhat engaging.

Im sure lots of little things can elevate Trials if they got a closer look and an overhauling but we dont need discuss every single aspect of Trials one month at a time.
Then its better to make One gigantic superboring topic about 10 different things and be done with it

I will say tho, i really appreciate the communication now and this "update#4:difficulty" is well worth discussing, great that you did that.
Best of luck, i really want the next Trials to be successful.

xzamplez
10-26-2017, 03:14 PM
There are simply players that want shallow, walkthrough-like experiences with little challenge. The crazy tracks and funny crashes will grab them, but once they realize that it’s going to take effort to continue; they lose interest. For most of these people, nothing you do will change that fact.

One thing I always tell newer players: Watch the replays. Providing a replay of these challenges that pauses/slows down at key moments, explaining the physics/logic, and stick movement is a great way to teach players how to play the game.

Another thing I tell them is to watch replays within their skill level. You should, at the very least explain in the training how to access replays, use the controls during the replay, and why it’s beneficial to their learning experience.

Rudemod 69
10-26-2017, 06:39 PM
There are simply players that want shallow, walkthrough-like experiences with little challenge. The crazy tracks and funny crashes will grab them, but once they realize that it’s going to take effort to continue; they lose interest. For most of these people, nothing you do will change that fact.+1

Apologies, Shifty.

Tutorials, or a practice mode (I like that idea) can be useful for new players, but have them separate from the main career mode, allowing experienced players to advance without the distractions.

Basically I would say, try and improve, learn the game. Practice, perseverence, practice. Some games aren't mean't to be mastered in 5 minutes.

I_GETHSEMANE_I
10-27-2017, 09:50 AM
Howsabout something linked to the Easy Way Out logic method, where an obstacle, section, or entire tracks can get easier due to fault count climbing? That way LBs could show how the level difficult was for the majority of the run, that would give a gauge of where players levels are at while providing an incentive to improve but not restricting how far someone can get.

RidingMower
10-27-2017, 02:35 PM
I loved the style of Evolution's license tests. It had a fun, interactive and engaging theme with its environment.

To make that a better experience and more enjoyable overall. Take away the pop-up tutorial when first approaching the checkpoint. Only when the rider has failed and reset to checkpoint be a reason for the assistance in helping by tutorial. Don't use a long sentences explaining the procedure. Instead simple arrow keys on controller inputs during the reset to checkpoint and allow a ghost demonstrate the perfect execution in real time. The player shouldn't have to be frozen at all during this, that is just frustrating.


If the freeze moments and the pop-ups don't occur when the rider isn't making a fault and needing to go back to the checkpoint, then the license test tracks surely can given a LB. (personal opinion but don't think these times should count on the Global LB because the purpose of the License Test is still a learning course, demonstrating techniques and is prioritized being a tutorial)


https://youtu.be/H_zbahjEjpY

The course layout was absolutely beautiful. The spacing and layout itself could really be copied and reused. The skill sets were perfect for their difficulty types.

Here is a video that shows someone first learning this game. His reactions to certain things could really be taking into account.


https://youtu.be/drZyYtdOwVg

Cheers

ComradePete
10-27-2017, 05:52 PM
Can more be done with replays/ghosts to help demonstrate how to get past obstacles?

One of my other favourite games Titanfall 2 has a visible 'ghost' to help explain the movement system - on the first few levels it plays on a loop, on each area, showing players where/when to jump/wallrun/double jump to get past that particular part of the level.

What if when someone is stuck on a track a they could press a help button that would display a rider getting past that part of the track alongside button presses that could be slowed down/repeated. Would maybe help with timing of weight transfer/when to leave off the throttle etc.

Titanfall also had a couple of achievements that you got for improving your time on the tutorial level - a possible incentive for new players to try & ensure they actually learn the skills?

I ShinFenix I
10-28-2017, 02:15 AM
One of the key to become really good that nobody said is to know how to land on every type of situation. If you understand that you will know how to pass differents obstacle CONSECUTIVELY.

QuietlyWrong
10-28-2017, 03:30 PM
I'm probably unusual - on here - in that I've never completed an Extreme track so hopefully my opinion has some value, even if I am - so it looks - above average for the player base. :) I don't think I have the necessary fine motor skills these days.

Looking through the replies here and listening to the interview with Professor FatShady there are loads of great points raised.

I NEVER want to sit through a tutorial that stops me and makes me wait while it teaches me something. There are a few good suggestions here as to how that might be achieved: any player should be able to opt out; as RidingMower says, you could have a tutorial level that only actually stops and leads the player by the hand if they're struggling; I really like the idea of an in situ overlay that shows the player the correct technique when they fault multiple times or make a help selection - especially if this could apply anywhere in the game.

Turning the tutorial into a skill-game/challenge with a highscore table has potential but you'd have to be absolutely meticulous in making sure the highest scores are achieved by a 'proper' run how the tutorial was intended, not by mastering some unlikely exploit. Certainly there's much scope for tutorials that people might come back to if there are friends' scores to better. And how much better if a tutorial challenges you to make (say) three consecutive bunny hops and then shows you the distance for each one, total distance, offered real feedback as to where you're shifting your weight too early or late or whatever. Give me a chart showing my progress over repeated attempts. Some people like that stuff. So the goal changes from 'get to the end of this awful boring level' to 'master that technique'

And yeah, the tutorials don't really cover everything you need to be a great player. Where are we learning to feather the brake or make less-than-full leans? The extreme stuff like applying throttle and brakes to change the way the bike spins in the air (is that even a thing? I'm confused). The simplest thing, as discussed on the podcast and reiterated by I ShinFenix I: how best to land the damned bike. The game says on the back wheel, but that's it, I think. (Forgive me, it's been a while.) What if you're: landing on a downslope; landing on an upslope; landing from great height; landing with a lot of forward momentum or a little; various combinations of the above on smooth surfaces, rough surfaces, flat or curved surfaces, expansive ramps and really tight spots?

The replays are a fantastic way to learn but as has been said they can cause you to focus too hard on speed over everything. Maybe there could be recommended / curated / meticulously crafted replays for each track that show how to meticulously pick your way through a level without faulting, from one checkpoint to the next, in good time. These could even be the basis of an in situ tutorial system that can be called upon to help a player with any checkpoint.


Speaking as an average player... albeit one who has perhaps persisted more than most, the later levels do seem too hard. I read a review of Trials Fusion somewhere that said that once you get to the Hard levels, the game stops being fun. I wouldn't go that far (if you have to work for it, there's a greater sense of achievement), but perhaps there's too much emphasis on speed early on that leads to expectations that it will continue in the same vein. The depth of the in-game system is at once a strength and a barrier so the learning curve needs to be very closely managed. Would it be better to make the later levels shorter on average, so as to be less intimidating? (The level editor and multi-track tournaments provide for people who want a longer race.) Perhaps an 'easy' mode could provide 'stage' checkpoints at a few places on the track at which the player's time and faults can be recorded and returned to like a quickload, allowing them to approach the tough ones piecemeal.

Frustrating for me as an obsessive personality is the perception that there is narrative going on that I may never get to witness in its completeness. Without a boring time watching Let's Play videos, anyway.

Personally, and I emphasise that this is as an average player, knowing that it may not go down so well with the Ninjas out there, I'd rather see a single-player campaign that didn't get so hard, but with all the wonderful inventive, sometimes squirrel-based optional goals - and more - that only a true master of the game could achieve. I found TF's abundance of inventive sidequests to be a very impressive and entertaining addition to the game, even if many of them seem improbably difficult to me. The fact that a track that can be completed easily by me on a Panda is nearly impossible (by me) on a Rabbit also suggests that vehicle-specific achievements and score-tables might allow the more Ninja-y to continue to differentiate themselves. At present, people will focus on the vehicle that gets to the finish fastest. What if there were a Rabbit-specific score table?

I'll probably have more unwelcome ideas later. :p

Crimson__Arrow
10-30-2017, 03:19 AM
I think the idea earlier in the thread about rivals is a great idea. It's handled brilliantly in Forza Horizon, and really satisfying. Every time you beat the track, you get given currency, and asked to beat a rival that is n% (I'm not sure the actual value they use) ahead of you (a rival being any player who's posted a time online, as opposed to just people on your friends lists). It's very compulsive, and an enjoyable way to encourage people to start speedrunning, and show them lines and techniques they haven't seen before, as they get better.

I think the big thing missed out on tutorials in trials is about rider position. It's often overlooked, and when I'm talking friends through extreme tracks, it's body position that really makes the difference to their capacity to beat a track.

Adding back the ability to watch a replay during a run would be useful as well. I see the basic passing of tracks as a technical hurdle to overcome. If after say 10 minutes, they game could offer a user the ability to watch the track be completed, then they can see what passing a particular obstacles looks like. For some players, this may take some of the 'magic' out of beating a track though.

In regards to us players being in the 1%, I'd like to advocate making maximum use of the tracks you do have in the game. Once a player has beaten the basic game, and put some times on the static tournaments (hint hint :p), unlocked the ability to play the 'ninja' or 'after dark' versions of existing tracks would be really cool. They don't all have to be ninja, tbh, you'd probably start at medium or hard and ramp up. Maybe not all tracks have a harder version, but it would add an insane amount of longevity, without having to completely redo the scenery and racing line for a track. You'd be making the most of the tracks in the game. I really like the in-game ninja tracks, and Oso's version of the Cold Storage as a ninja track was really fun.

As an aside, you could look at how climbing approaches technical difficulties. The website TheCrag, every climb has a page, and users can post info on how they completed it, certain moves to watch out for, and other 'beta' that helped them complete the climb. It generates a sense of community, and lets the best climbs be rated so that others know where the classic or 5 star routes are.

Tomahog UK
10-30-2017, 07:39 AM
why not just put a link in the menu to fat shadys youtube channel? He does a great job with tutorials.

Ryphyz
10-30-2017, 11:47 AM
The game already offers racing against ghosts, which could be improved to become useful for learning purposes. The basic idea is not having to watch replays separately to see how others are approaching the track, but to have a helpful reference while playing, so:


Add options how to display the ghost: Just the name tag as it is now (not helpful for that purpose), the nasty white multiplayer ghost (I find them rather confusing), and new better ways of display, like the actual rider skin you'd see in the replay, but with less and less opacity the closer you are to each other. Something like that or whatever you can come up with.
Add more options what ghost(s) to display by default: Next guy on the global leaderboards, someone with a 1% better time, #1 best time, someone based on a "rival" system as others suggested already (and I totally agree with them) etc.
Add the option not to let the ghost disappear in the distance once they have been faster on the first few obstacles, but allow automatically resetting their progress to your own at every checkpoint (not only when resetting to the checkpoint yourself, but also when you trigger it during a 0f run of course), so you can always see ghosts on the same obstacle that you are currently facing.
Provide useful defaults for these options and mention the feature in a tutorial, so new players will actually be tempted to use it for improving their skills.

And of course: Integrate the Professor right into the game. It took me 3 Trials games before I progressed from hard to extreme tracks (I'm probably not the most patient gamer...), and the main reason I ever did was stumbling into FatShady's Youtube channel after completing HD, Evo and Fusion up to "hard" and still faulting out on "Eye of the Storm".
As obvious as the need to integrate SwampBalls into the editor.

QuietlyWrong
10-30-2017, 01:35 PM
why not just put a link in the menu to fat shadys youtube channel? He does a great job with tutorials.

Personally, I find that if a game's tutorial options include a bunch of videos, on YouTube or whatever, it feels like a bit of a cop-out. Better than nothing at all, though.


I'm sure it doesn't need me to say it, but if you want feedback as to why more than 50% of people who paid for the game didn't complete all the medium levels, the '1%-ers' might not be the best people to ask... :p

QuietlyWrong
10-30-2017, 02:51 PM
Actual pondering more on it, maybe people don't get past the medium levels because they get the wrong impression of the game early on.

To begin with, all the courses seem like rollercoaster tracks. Maybe there needs to be earlier emphasis on technical challenges.

I'm reminded of a TV show from my youth, 'Kick Start', which aired on the BBC through most of the 80's. That was about real life trials biking, pitting contestants against each other in timed trials. You can read more about it on wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kick_Start_(TV_series)) or see various YouTube examples of it such as this one (https://youtu.be/okJRTvS9z9E?t=2m4s). As you'd expect, failures on obstacles meant 20 second penalties rather than horrible disfiguring death.

So I wonder if the game's later courses would be more palatable to the average player if the expectation of technical trickery were introduced sooner and more prominently. Perhaps the early courses could be divided between speed ones, technical and hybrid, with hybrid obviously dominating later on. You could slow people down by having sections where the player is obliged to pause for three seconds or whatever on a platform or take a penalty. Balancing a bike in game is much easier than in real life so maybe demand an on-the-spot two second wheelie or endo or stay-in-place-on-a slope to open the way ahead. (My balance isn't great; two seconds sounds like a long time for me.)

Then there's the question of whether you could allow players (perhaps in 'easy mode') to bypass a checkpoint in return for a fault and time penalty. (Might also encourage builders to put more checckpoints in.)

Kestrelius
10-31-2017, 06:45 AM
How about at check points add a trigger that gives a "are you stuck?" message at the top or bottom corner with a hotkey (like R1 on PS, or RB on XBox, or H for PC)? The hot key then either leads them to a short tutorial video, or brings up a simple explanation and image on how to do the obstacle in that checkpoint. This should only pop up after say 3 failed attempts from that checkpoint, as it is an indicator that either the player is new,or is struggling to identify the type of obstacle due to the layout/scenery.

This then allows the player to initially try to progress independantly first, then offers help which does not interupt the game for players who know and are just having a mad moment. I agree that the Evolution style tutorials is great, so this feature can be on top of them with some consideration to some of the suggestions for them.

Rudhelm
10-31-2017, 04:16 PM
Just teach those additional 3 Things, and all will be good ;D

– A proper Bunnyhop: left, right AND LEFT AGAIN
– Teach the importance of the Neutral Position
– Teach how to land

Coolrider69
11-03-2017, 06:32 AM
The nature of any game is a short lifespan. Tutorials will help a few more get into the game though.

I would take each checkpoint in the game and assign them to specific techniques used. If a player gets stuck, they can see which tutorial to reference.

A good tutorial idea would be to slow down the mechanics of each technique, then have the player complete the stick motion...eventually speed it up to 100%.

Part of me would like to see few tutorials. The thought of thousands melting down warms my heart.

People in general are impatient...especially gamers. I don't see the vast majority of casual players caring too much. 3 weeks gameplay tops for most people. This is just human nature. Even when I started playing...I would pass the tracks up until I couldn't get much further, then just stop for a while.

It would nice to have a training tutorial center or sub area in which a player can access multiple obstacles on the fly...link them together, then practice.
There are only so many types mechanics used in the game or types of extreme/hard obstacles. Build them all, then have the player pick which to practice.
This could also be a good multiplayer side game. One player picks, the rest complete it within 10 tries or 20 seconds....similar to a horse game.

braveulysees
11-16-2017, 09:50 PM
+1

Apologies, Shifty.

Tutorials, or a practice mode (I like that idea) can be useful for new players, but have them separate from the main career mode, allowing experienced players to advance without the distractions.

Basically I would say, try and improve, learn the game. Practice, perseverence, practice. Some games aren't mean't to be mastered in 5 minutes.

Nods sagely. Well said Rude.

mikloso2015
12-06-2017, 01:33 AM
Playing trials about two years, 1.3 million XP, so I have earned my salt in trials.

It's really two things;

1.) Start and Stop Checkpoints - With a status or designation of completed with start/stop versus completion within time limit. Could be only bronze or an asterisk or some other designation that the track was completed the easy way or the hard way. Maybe an unlimited time to complete track or 60 minutes but with the lesser designation of a player that completes the track within the time limit and without start/stop function.

2.) Replay Rewind - It has been particularly frustrating for even short tracks not to be able to rewind but for longer tracks, example "Gigaclimb [F] - cavemanDave247. Personally have not completed it but have gotten about 75% through but watching the whole video just to see technique at cp 40 or 43 is just not worth the time and effort advance replay and this past it only to have to restart the replay again... did I emphasize "frustrating"?

Other Options;
A.) advancing to next Check Point option.
B.) able to play replay while in track - pause the current track and be able to replay and rewind track to see what is necessary.
C.) numbered Check Points - at least if start/stop function (see above) were added this would add tremendous value to this function.

I have read through this thread one time and some ideas are outlandish and some are quite good and of course I think my ideas are simple and to the point but I am just the voice of one... perhaps I will get some votes on this or maybe not?

Love trials gameplay.... when I pass! Really dislike track central connection persistence and needs some improvements on searching, date of competion of players, notes or discussion by players... but that is another thread I suppose and leave it at that.

Mikloso2015

OTMB_Cobra
07-03-2018, 07:18 PM
Sorry to be answering this so late but nevertheless I totally agree with a lot of there suggestions.


I have wanted to move onto learning more difficult techniques to allow me to complete Ninja tracks, but haven't been able to find good enough tutorials that explain the techniques properly. I would welcome some in depth tutorials, that include visual how-to's on button/stick movements etc. This could also be done for other skills necessary to play Trials in general.




The game already offers racing against ghosts, which could be improved to become useful for learning purposes. The basic idea is not having to watch replays separately to see how others are approaching the track, but to have a helpful reference while playing, so:


Add options how to display the ghost: Just the name tag as it is now (not helpful for that purpose), the nasty white multiplayer ghost (I find them rather confusing), and new better ways of display, like the actual rider skin you'd see in the replay, but with less and less opacity the closer you are to each other. Something like that or whatever you can come up with.
Add more options what ghost(s) to display by default: Next guy on the global leaderboards, someone with a 1% better time, #1 best time, someone based on a "rival" system as others suggested already (and I totally agree with them) etc.
Add the option not to let the ghost disappear in the distance once they have been faster on the first few obstacles, but allow automatically resetting their progress to your own at every checkpoint (not only when resetting to the checkpoint yourself, but also when you trigger it during a 0f run of course), so you can always see ghosts on the same obstacle that you are currently facing.
Provide useful defaults for these options and mention the feature in a tutorial, so new players will actually be tempted to use it for improving their skills.


And of course: Integrate the Professor right into the game. It took me 3 Trials games before I progressed from hard to extreme tracks (I'm probably not the most patient gamer...), and the main reason I ever did was stumbling into FatShady's Youtube channel after completing HD, Evo and Fusion up to "hard" and still faulting out on "Eye of the Storm".
As obvious as the need to integrate SwampBalls into the editor.





So I wonder if the game's later courses would be more palatable to the average player if the expectation of technical trickery were introduced sooner and more prominently. Perhaps the early courses could be divided between speed ones, technical and hybrid, with hybrid obviously dominating later on. You could slow people down by having sections where the player is obliged to pause for three seconds or whatever on a platform or take a penalty. Balancing a bike in game is much easier than in real life so maybe demand an on-the-spot two second wheelie or endo or stay-in-place-on-a slope to open the way ahead. (My balance isn't great; two seconds sounds like a long time for me.)


Then there's the question of whether you could allow players (perhaps in 'easy mode') to bypass a checkpoint in return for a fault and time penalty. (Might also encourage builders to put more checckpoints in.)





Replay Rewind - It has been particularly frustrating for even short tracks not to be able to rewind but for longer tracks, example "Gigaclimb [F] - cavemanDave247. Personally have not completed it but have gotten about 75% through but watching the whole video just to see technique at cp 40 or 43 is just not worth the time and effort advance replay and this past it only to have to restart the replay again... did I emphasize "frustrating"?


Other Options;
A.) advancing to next Check Point option.
B.) able to play replay while in track - pause the current track and be able to replay and rewind track to see what is necessary.