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View Full Version : Offline gamers. How does Oleg know what they want?



TimTam27
08-08-2004, 08:47 AM
Whenever I read the posts on the IL2:FB forums I get the strong impression that the vast majority of posters are online players. Obviously if you are posting on the internet you are more likely to have the ability to play online. Yet I recall reading that around 70% of IL2 players play mostly offline. If most of the feedback Maddox games gets comes from onliners, does this mean that the game will be skewed towards the needs of online players and that that may be at the expense of the majority of people who buy the games? At this point I can't state a specific instance of this happening but of course the danger exists.
Does Maddox have a way of keeping in touch with the offliners?
Perhaps if you are an offline player you should say so at the beginning of your post so Maddox would know where you are coming from.

TimTam27
08-08-2004, 08:47 AM
Whenever I read the posts on the IL2:FB forums I get the strong impression that the vast majority of posters are online players. Obviously if you are posting on the internet you are more likely to have the ability to play online. Yet I recall reading that around 70% of IL2 players play mostly offline. If most of the feedback Maddox games gets comes from onliners, does this mean that the game will be skewed towards the needs of online players and that that may be at the expense of the majority of people who buy the games? At this point I can't state a specific instance of this happening but of course the danger exists.
Does Maddox have a way of keeping in touch with the offliners?
Perhaps if you are an offline player you should say so at the beginning of your post so Maddox would know where you are coming from.

Carnage2681
08-08-2004, 09:01 AM
How can you play offline with Sniper AI and Oil Windows ;( http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif

p1ngu666
08-08-2004, 10:02 AM
lexx_luther, champion of the offwhine
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nearmiss
08-08-2004, 10:49 AM
Without any doubt the impetus is online.

Offline gets some consideration, but the sim has never been improved to really give offliners what they need.

All improvements and updates are graphics, objects and aircrafts. These are things the Onliners clamour and whine for all the time. The exception may be PF wherein Carrier landings will be added. I'm not sure what big change that will require in the programming...but I'd bet - not much.

Oleg knows the life of the sim is in the offline user, but he's been able to pander to offliners and make onliners extremely happy. I'd say just enough pandering to both types of user to keep them interested to buy the IL2-FB series.

Oleg knows what offliners want you can bet on it. There have been enough postings on these boards to create an encyclopedia of Offline user needs. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Oleg & 1C:Maddox are really doing a good job. I never feel good about raggin' on them, because I always seem to be able to still enjoy the sim offline. Sure the computer generated campaigns and lousy static missions are boring, but the rest of the sim quality helps offliners over the "boring" threshhold.

If CFS3 had the AI programming, flight physics, graphic imbellishments of IL2-FB, and the CFS2 Mission Builder it would be the number sim right now. In fact, if MSFT had just updated the CFS2 instead of going on an off tangent ego trip they'd probably be number one right now.

I remember posting at Sim-Outhouse and the number of posters on IL2 Sturmovik boards were few and far between. Nobody was interested in the IL2 until the major FLOP of the CFS3.

This has all been said a co-zillion times in a multitude of postings. Course you still have to f$rt occassionally just to let the wind out.

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SeaFireLIV
08-08-2004, 11:15 AM
It`s true to say that though MORE people play offline, that by it`s very nature, the ONLINE people are most likely to be heard.

An onliner flies the typical online `airquake` servers or coops, or VWFs/VEFs and if he feels like praising or cursing something he hates with FB, he will naturally switch to ORR. The OFFLINER of course is less likely to run online just to put a complaint to Oleg, unless he`s very, very miffed. Even then, the experienced ONLINE players are likely to be experienced whiners/complainers and will therefore press a complaint more forcefully than an ofliner in my view.

So, it`s easier for Oleg to hear the onliners, it`s easier to make new models of a variety similar aircraft, or make a million ONLINE maps that can`t be used OFFLINE without inovative creators like the DCG. It`s easier to please the ONLINERS doing this than to struggle with the hardier knottier problem of much improved AI (although Oleg has made the AI much better since 1.0), It`s harder to work on avoiding ground collisons, or making the AI taxi home without blindly running into everyone etc,etc,etc.

Oh, and it doesn`t look quite as dramatic in the Readme.

But I DO know Oleg listens and he tries and I give him much Kudos for that.

If he only put as much into OFFLINE as the proportional amount of offline players seem to show we`d have the KING of offline flight sims.

SeaFireLIV ardent OFFLINE and ONLINE flyer.

Oh and Stiglr - Shut up!

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VW-IceFire
08-08-2004, 11:30 AM
I'm 50/50 offline and online. The QMB and the FMB are the most important aspects of the offline experience for me. I create alot of missions nowadays and I use my online experience sometimes as inspiration for those offline encounters (TX-0C3 and UK-Dedicated games are plenty interesting enough to create ideas from).

My message for improving BoB's experience is to continue to develop the campaign generator but retain or improve the power of the QMB and the FMB components. Those keep single player alive and make training and testing so easy and so fun.

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609IAP_Recon
08-08-2004, 03:04 PM
I enjoy a good offline campaign - I would probably fly more if the AI was better.

AI is the number one problem with offline, after that it is pretty cool.

When I mean AI, I mean the teammates as well as enemy.

Stilgr, I would have to completely disagree with you.

S!
609IAP_Recon
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carguy_
08-08-2004, 03:46 PM
The game is very well used to offline players.Campaigns are very long and imo very well made.Before going online I had a blast and only fights with human players lead me towards online.

There is so much stuff for those ppl.

Compare that to Unreal for example.The first was the best fpp I have ever played.

And out of a strange coincidince Unreal and Quake makers said "Screw them" and created internet only games - a good scenario and creativity was too much for them to take.They`ve made few maps,added nice graphics only for onliners.

Needless to say you have to have a ping of max 50 to smoothly play ffp online,so I stopped buying fpp games ever since.

So you see offline players should be aware that some ppl do care about them.UT makers created very good bots,other guys went for WWII fpp.

Other than that it is true,offliners don`t have an influence on what is this game patching to.
Dunno about others but I feel like the community here had an influence on the entire game starting from IL2 release.

What would I want if I would be an offline player?Maps,scenarios,campaigns,planes,new features.Ok,patches didn`t give them everything but still much.

Don`t forget the FMB.

All in all offline status of this game is almost as good as online.Ahh if only AI resembled humans.

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BaldieJr
08-08-2004, 03:49 PM
Online gaming is over rated. I can't believe people still find it enjoyable.

Give me a good single-player experience any day.

I once thought otherwise, but after all these years of online gaming, I've just grown tired of the same-ol same-ol.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
Hey ya'll prepare yourselves
for the rubberband man</pre>
http://www.fighterjerks.com/rbman.png
http://www.fighterjerks.com

Tooz_69GIAP
08-08-2004, 05:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
Offline gamers are irrelevant. They buy a box, they don't play online, they (for the most part) don't contribute to the community by their presense.

So, who cares what they think? Oleg has their $40, and they've gone incommunicado.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, Stiglr, what exactly do you contribute to the community apart from ignorant postings, and spurious statements??

You paid your $40 dollars, great, wonderful. So did everyone else here (unless you picked it up in the bargain bin or summit http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ). Why is your opinion so much more important than anyone elses??

Anyway, I don't like flaming, but Stiglr, you're a ninkumpoop!!!

whit ye looking at, ya big jessie?!?!

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XyZspineZyX
08-08-2004, 06:17 PM
I'm one of the few people here interested in getting it right, instead of just setting it up so the "right guys" win. I help keep Oleg and his team HONEST.

I'd call that a service, although it's largely not appreciated.

I call 'em like I see 'em, and if you don't like my candor... tough. Smell my finger.

I'm not requiring anyone to agree with me.

LEXX_Luthor
08-08-2004, 07:27 PM
AI in FB is better then we think, but the best Features are not documented and hidden deep within the Power of FMB. The most difficult part of Dynamic Campaign building is not AI but the inability to talk to the maps without brutally extensive experiment by the campaign creator.

The test of Artificial Intelligence (AI) is the inability of the simmer to differentiate between humanoid team and computer AI team. This should be the Goal of flight sim Developers, thus making onwhine play irrelevent... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif --that's a joke-- the onwhine Air Warfare "community" is a fascinating idea...like TargetWare human populated air warfare environments...as opposed to the silly onwhine Dogfighter community.

Stiglr:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Offline gamers are irrelevant.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No candor here, except that TargetWare has neither the resources nor developer skill to create offwhine AI air warfare and battlefield environments. They are restricted to onwhine play.

__________________
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"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

nearmiss
08-08-2004, 07:51 PM
I can imagine that Online play could be exciting, if a great deal of planning was done between the people engaging in it. In fact, it might be exciting if you were part of a squadron of mates that really worked at making it a good experience.

Frankly, those would be exceptional cases I would think. Some squadrons could be doing it now for all I know, so I'll give the online players benefit of any doubts.

I gave up online play when I came to IL2 from CFS2 and the Zone. I felt like I was playing an arcade game with the 12 year olds on the Zone. I'm not saying it's that way, that's the way I felt.

My time for Combat Flight simming is small so I enjoy mission building and creating scenarios that I find enjoyable Offline.

I don't care if 1C:maddox puts out new things for Online players, I'd just like to see some improvements that are needed to enhance Offline play.

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LEXX_Luthor
08-08-2004, 07:57 PM
mmm, when I had a Trident integrated mobo video I spent all my time in FMB, needless to say. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Just a hypothosis, but its possible that those who Pay to fly onwhine like TargetWare are willing to work much more extensively as Teams. The paying may weed out some of the onwhine Dogfighter Ace Noobs (not Newbies). I don't know but it sounds reasonable. Oleg should Target both onwhiners and offwhiners together. The 5%--the Onwhiners--provide the advertising, the offwhiners provide the Profit.


__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Tater-SW-
08-08-2004, 08:29 PM
One, "offline" refers to players use of Il-2, not to their use (or non-use) of the internet, or even these forums. I've played very little online in Il-2 so far because my connection is so poor... my only non-satelite broadband option is IDSL at $120/mo, though wireless might make it up here shortly (32,713ft from a CO for DSL, no cable). For PF I think I'll get the IDSL if I have no other choice, still less than my old hourly WB bills, lol. Anyway, lack of a good connect for online play doesn't mean I cannot (or don't) contribute to the discussion.

Two, having screwed around a little here, and a lot more in ww2ol, WB (and way back when AW), the only online play I'm interested is missions, not dogfighting. Planes streaming to a furball halfway between fields... been there, done that. Yawn. I'd hope that Oleg, et al are working on some updates to the FMB, because single player, or coop, FMB improvements pay good dividends.

tater

WWSensei
08-09-2004, 01:25 PM
I fly offline almost exclusively now.

I routinely report bugs via the official bug report method asked for in the readme files.

To date, via this method I've reported about a dozen bugs and/or requests for enhancements that have been implemented and/or corrected. Oleg is actually quite responsive when you provide the info he asks for and are polite in your discussions.

Even the issues he said wouldn't be fixed he explained why he wouldn't.

Stilgr, I think you overblow your impact to the game...and given your pasts posts you pretty much do maintain that people agree with you...or at least you aren't very tolerent of those that disagree.

Carnage2681
08-09-2004, 01:34 PM
hey, where is my "i´m with stupid" post gone ?

censored ? wtf....

Rab03
08-10-2004, 06:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Carnage2681:
How can you play offline with Sniper AI and Oil Windows ;( http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Easy-by avoiding sniper AI and getting oil ona my windshield http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif.

See my skins at
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p1ngu666
08-10-2004, 07:02 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gifgood friends and good coops http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

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TheEngine88
08-10-2004, 02:20 PM
70% of the FB community is irrelevant?

LMAO! You might want to give some thought before you allow your pudgy fingers to hammer away at your keyboard something as ridiculous and inane as that...

"Pain Fades, Glory lasts forever, Chicks dig scars."

LEXX_Luthor
08-10-2004, 07:38 PM
That's 95%

TagertWare is fundamentally restricted to onwhine play only, so they say 95% of flight simmers are irrelevent, like Intel says 64bit is irrelevent to home computing, and for the same reason.


__________________
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif Flyable Swedish "Gladiator" listed as J8A ...in Aces Expansion Pack

"You will still have FB , you will lose nothing" ~WUAF_Badsight
"I had actually pre ordered CFS3 and I couldnt wait..." ~Bearcat99
"Gladiator and Falco, elegant weapons of a more civilized age" ~ElAurens
:
"Damn.....Where you did read about Spitfire made from a wood?
Close this book forever and don't open anymore!" ~Oleg_Maddox http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif