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Yellonet
06-22-2004, 07:20 AM
Just read this in the CFS 2 manual, which is really good by the way.

P-400: USAAF export variant of Aircobra fighter. Outclassed by the Mitsubishi fighter, the P-400 was described as "a P-40 with a Zero after it."

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- Yellonet

Yellonet
06-22-2004, 07:20 AM
Just read this in the CFS 2 manual, which is really good by the way.

P-400: USAAF export variant of Aircobra fighter. Outclassed by the Mitsubishi fighter, the P-400 was described as "a P-40 with a Zero after it."

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- Yellonet

ImpStarDuece
06-22-2004, 07:32 AM
Actually the joke goes more like this:

'whats a P-400?' 'a P-40 with a Zero on its tail!'

The P-400 was the British version of the P-39 fitted with a 20mm Hispano replacing the 37mm T9 nose cannon. Sort of a even more neutered version of the basic P-39 ie no turbochargers, strangely mixed armament and limited high altitude performance.

I think there were only about 179 (that no sticks in my head for some reason) delivered by the US and most were used for Ground attack or training, others going to France and the USSR. Maybe 5-600 hundred made of this variant altogether?

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Ruy Horta
06-22-2004, 08:48 AM
The P-39 did not have a turbocharger, so the British version wasn't unique because of the lack of said feature.

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Ruy Horta

necrobaron
06-22-2004, 01:19 PM
FYI-

IIRC, Luthier said that both the P-39D and P-400 will appear in PF... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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Bull_dog_
06-22-2004, 08:50 PM
I could be mistaken, but I believe some P-400 served at Guadalcanal...maybe New Guinea...but I'm not completely certain.

JG53Frankyboy
06-22-2004, 09:19 PM
sure the P-400 saw action from Port Morseby , NewGuinea, early 42 - also it was one of the first army fighters flying from later HendersonField , Guadalcanal.

btw, just keep in mind how astonished a lot of people were about Airacobra performance in IL2/FB ! so , we will see how it "works" in PF ! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VW-IceFire
06-22-2004, 10:26 PM
The roll rate has been decreased in 2.01 as well. Its much more like what I expected it to be now...and its quite alright. Still shooting down 109s! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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ElAurens
06-22-2004, 10:39 PM
Actually the change to the 20mm Hispano sounds like a good thing to me. Far more accurate than the 37mm, and should be quite devastating to early war IJN/JAAF aircraft.

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mllaneza
06-22-2004, 11:03 PM
Against early-war Japanese aircraft a single 20mm will actually do the job. I like twin 20s against European aircraft (3 is better).

I am interested in seeing just how the P-400 stacks up against the Zero when more sophisticated are used. It'll depend on the speed and climbing ability of the planes.

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WUAF_Badsight
06-22-2004, 11:05 PM
id RATHER have the Hispano 20mm

far more deadly in a Dogfight

.
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Bull_dog_
06-23-2004, 07:22 PM
I'm flying 2.02 right now, but I think I like the .50's for zeroes best right now...they really flame good!

I'll probably start another debate, but the Bearcat was fitted with 2 .50 cal hmg's in each wing because the standard 3/wing was deemed unneccessary by the war department and grumman and would rather save weight to improve performance.

That revelation makes me really think the DM of the Ki is off even more than I first believed because those decisions were made while the US was fighting Franks, Tonies, Tojo's and Jack's....seems they should all be fairly vulnerable to 4 .50 cal HMG's....so give me ammo and lots of it !

RCJ99
06-23-2004, 09:53 PM
The P-39 does so well in Il-2 and FB because it was built as a low altitude short range fighter and thats the kind of air combat that took place over russia.

In the pacific theater the P-39's small fuel tank meant that it couldn't take the fight to the enemy.

The p-39's engine was fitted with a single speed
supercharger that worked best from sea level to
12-15,000 feet

Against zeros and bettys at 20,000 feet the p-39
was at a big dissadvantage and was normally used
for low cover

WUAF_Badsight
06-23-2004, 10:31 PM
ahh yes the KI


if its overmoddeled it is in the DM

so weird

its easy to hurt but as far as breaking one ..... it seems like you have to get lucky

flys like a beached whale once its hit but its hard to make one blow up

looses wings easy & blacks you out easy too

.
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Philipscdrw
06-24-2004, 04:56 AM
It was the P-38 that the RAF neutered by omitting the turbochargers and handed propellors.

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VW-IceFire
06-24-2004, 06:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bull_dog_:
I'm flying 2.02 right now, but I think I like the .50's for zeroes best right now...they really flame good!

I'll probably start another debate, but the Bearcat was fitted with 2 .50 cal hmg's in each wing because the standard 3/wing was deemed unneccessary by the war department and grumman and would rather save weight to improve performance.

That revelation makes me really think the DM of the Ki is off even more than I first believed because those decisions were made while the US was fighting Franks, Tonies, Tojo's and Jack's....seems they should all be fairly vulnerable to 4 .50 cal HMG's....so give me ammo and lots of it !<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Remember that the more numerous types were still Oscar's and Zero's. The George and Frank were the two tougher Japanese aircraft but they were far less numerous and suffered from other problems which aren't really modelable.

Plus the Bearcat was considered so high performance that the lessening of firepower would be ok. If it was to be a kamakazi defender then rate of climb was more important than devastating firepower. Later it was obviously insufficient and the model was upgraded to carrying 4 M3 20mm cannons (an offshoot of the Hispano).

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NegativeGee
06-24-2004, 10:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Philipscdrw:
It was the P-3_8_ that the RAF neutered by omitting the turbochargers and handed propellors.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We already had this discussion- it was the US who barred the sale of the turbochargers to overseas customers; that resulted in the poor performance of the Lightening I's.

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Bull_dog_
06-24-2004, 06:54 PM
If you haven't read the book "Fire in the Sky" do so...it is a very good read on the Pacific airwar.

I thought a couple of interesting points made early on in the book were the toughness of construction of American planes...they were always built stronger than aircraft of other nations...including the P-39. Also, I got the distinct impression that the Airacobra really only lacked the high altitude performance. It was slightly faster, rolled better, dived better, better firepower and tougher...its disadvantages were turning radius, slow speed handling/stall characteristics, climb and of course no supercharger.

Against landbased aircraft flying from Lae or Rabaul, the P-39 always started every fight from an altitude/energy disadvantage...this would really make for a bad day. If an Airacobra caught the enemy below 15,000 ft. it could and would compete favorably with them as long as it stayed out of turning battles.

This may be a lot of the bad reputation from the US and a good reputation from the VVS who flew them at low altitude... I got a suspicion that the "Iron Dog" wasn't such a dog afterall if the fight started below 15,000 ft. and the pilot kept his speed up.... but imagine a P-400 with a supercharger able to do 370mph at 25,000 ft....the whole history of Bell may have been re-written if we had gone to war with an aircraft like that...who knows, maybe the US would have been flying King Cobra's in early 44!

Timex62
06-25-2004, 04:44 AM
Two other things to keep in mind: the P-39's used in Russia were modified (reducing their weight) and therefore had better performance, plus the tactics used in the early part of the Pacific war played right into the Japanese' hands. It's no wonder the P-39 got such a bad reputation.

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Mr_Nakajima
06-26-2004, 01:33 AM
Couple of other things:

If I remember rightly, the P-400s used British oxygen bottles (naturally enough given that they had been ordered by Britain). These were not available in the early months in the Pacific, so even if the P-400 could struggle to altitude its pilots couldn't tell which of the black dots they were seeing was a zero and which was caused by oxygen defficiency.

The P-39's 37mm cannon was initially very un-reliable and would often jam after only a few rounds, so the 20mm carried by the P-400 was much preferred.