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I-ModernSpartan
10-06-2017, 12:34 PM
Hey guys
My main is the Centurion and I also play sometimes with the Warden
I feel like after the patch (1.14) the Centurion is too weak
BTW the Shinobi is a little bit too storng
The Centurion doesn't have a good range (he has a very short range) he doesnt do a lot of damage (he is strong but there are stronger heroes)
he doesn't attack esspically fast and he has a low HP (only the shinobi has less health)
His strength was the stamina draining and the defense opening
Now his single long range attack range has a shorter range he doesn't stun any more and he drains less stamina
at least his jab miss recovery time has shortened a little bit
I think that some of the patches are good - he had too much stunning attacks and he drained a lot of stamina and also the jab recovery time is very good in my opinion
But now without his nerfed defense opening capabilities, short range, low health and not esspically strong nor fast attacks he is weak
now the Shinobi has almost the same health as a Centurion if not the same health

As I said I'm a Centurion and Warden player (most of the time)
The Centurion was indeed problematic because if you didn't dodged/perryed at the right time which all of his unblockable stunning stamina draining you would finish the match angry and frustrated
But If you knew when to dodge/perry you could kill the Centurion easily because only the shinobi had less stamina and the Centurion player would have finish the match angry and frustrated
Centurions are pretty predicable:
Most of the time a Centurion will start engaging with a kick/eagle's talons, A Centurion will try to make the kick -> charged heavy -> charged jab -> eagle's talon combo
maybe instead of the charged heavy -> eagle's talon he will just jab -> charged heavy -> jab -> charged heavy... (creating an infinite chain)
And there is the eagle's talon -> charged jab -> eagle's talon

As a Warden (I did it with all of the heroes actually) when a was playing against a Centurion I would baited them to do the legion kick/eagle's talon
then I dodged and stroke them

I think that the Centurion needs a buff
130 HP (like a Warden) + short stun with the legion kick (not as powerful as it was before the patch) would be great
I don't want the Centurion to be OP/Dirty but I think he needs a buff

*I'm not a native speaker so if there are spelling/grammar mistakes I'm sorry

Charmzzz
10-06-2017, 01:02 PM
Alright, let's do this:

1. Cent has 160 Stamina which is BY FAR the most in the game. Most Characters have 120, only Berserker (140) and Shinobi (135) have more than 120. This, plus the bug that made Jab not cost ANY Stamina (and finally got fixed hopefully) made the Centurion an infinite Cut-Scene-until-Death machine. Once you got your own Stamina drained vs a Cent he would never let you get it back since he could spam Kick / Heavy Feints / Heavy Soft Feints into GB all day long until you do ONE mistake and *bam*, you are down to 0 Stamina again.

2. Cent still has one of the highest parry and wall splat damage in the game. Even after the nerf.

3. His mixup and fight starting potential is still HUGE with 500 / 600ms chargeable / feintable / unblockable / soft feintable into GB heavies. Gosh he never has to use a light attack as his heavies are as fast as most of the other Characters light attacks...

Ubi didn't nerf all of these things except for the infinite wall splat chain of death. No more wall splat after uncharged jab, yay. And a little delay between a heavy and Jab. His range on heavies got decreased to lower his "out of sight" ganking potential. And he got a Buff: Jab recovery after a Miss is now shorter:

Centurion

Charged Heavy Attack range decreased to 4.25m (from 5m).
Charged Heavy Finisher range decreased to 4.75m (from 5.75m).
Uncharged Heavy Finisher link into Jab delayed by 100ms.
Jabs do not stagger on wall anymore.
Normal Jab Stamina drain decreased to 30 (from 40).
Normal Jab Miss recovery shortened to 700ms (from 800ms).
“Legion Kick” does not stun anymore.
“Eagle Talon” stamina cost increased to 20 (from 12).
[Bug Fix] Jab stamina cost of 12 now works correctly.

Sooo, the only things that changed are his own Stamina Cost, his Range, his Stamina Drain and the uncharged Jab stagger on walls. Do you really, like for real, see any nerf that is not targeted at the infinite death cut scene bullsh*t? He is now on par with most of the roster in my opinion. But he still can take half of an Assassins HP with one GB / Parry. Isn't that good enough?

I-ModernSpartan
10-06-2017, 02:07 PM
I know that he wasn't perfect before the patch and I said that
If you dodge at the right time when he is doing all of his unblockables you can deal quite a lot of damage
He has the lowest health in the game (tougher with the Shinobi)
It's a good idea to stop his infinite stamina draining stunning chains but now if the opponent dodges/parrys you will lose a lot of health
He has a short range
A Nobushi for example can just spam her long range attacks and dodge and the Centurion has to parry otherwise he is dead very quickly
even if parry to nobushi just start spaming again
The Orochi for example has the dodge attack (cant recall the name of the attack) so when the Centurion makes a kick the Orochi dodges and destroys the Centurion
Basically if you fight against a good dodger with a fast attacks (he will have longer range then you anytime) and you make 1 mistake almost half of your health is gone

Halvtand
10-06-2017, 02:08 PM
Props to Charmzzz. Good reply.

Kenny324410
10-06-2017, 02:16 PM
Oooo boohooo look at all the cry baby cent manes that though thay were good because thay were useing a broken op person now that heís more in line with the rest yous are crying because yous arenít any good and have no skills at all the words get good come to mind

Tyrjo
10-06-2017, 02:16 PM
What do you mean he does not attack fast and has no damage? That's just plain wrong. If there is any hero that can output damage fast it's the Centurion. He still can, even after these changes.

Dude_of_Valor
10-06-2017, 02:28 PM
Charmzzz post is the perfect reply.

DoctorMcBatman
10-06-2017, 02:34 PM
Alright, let's do this:

1. Cent has 160 Stamina which is BY FAR the most in the game. Most Characters have 120, only Berserker (140) and Shinobi (135) have more than 120. This, plus the bug that made Jab not cost ANY Stamina (and finally got fixed hopefully) made the Centurion an infinite Cut-Scene-until-Death machine. Once you got your own Stamina drained vs a Cent he would never let you get it back since he could spam Kick / Heavy Feints / Heavy Soft Feints into GB all day long until you do ONE mistake and *bam*, you are down to 0 Stamina again.

2. Cent still has one of the highest parry and wall splat damage in the game. Even after the nerf.

3. His mixup and fight starting potential is still HUGE with 500 / 600ms chargeable / feintable / unblockable / soft feintable into GB heavies. Gosh he never has to use a light attack as his heavies are as fast as most of the other Characters light attacks...

Ubi didn't nerf all of these things except for the infinite wall splat chain of death. No more wall splat after uncharged jab, yay. And a little delay between a heavy and Jab. His range on heavies got decreased to lower his "out of sight" ganking potential. And he got a Buff: Jab recovery after a Miss is now shorter:

Centurion

Charged Heavy Attack range decreased to 4.25m (from 5m).
Charged Heavy Finisher range decreased to 4.75m (from 5.75m).
Uncharged Heavy Finisher link into Jab delayed by 100ms.
Jabs do not stagger on wall anymore.
Normal Jab Stamina drain decreased to 30 (from 40).
Normal Jab Miss recovery shortened to 700ms (from 800ms).
“Legion Kick” does not stun anymore.
“Eagle Talon” stamina cost increased to 20 (from 12).
[Bug Fix] Jab stamina cost of 12 now works correctly.

Sooo, the only things that changed are his own Stamina Cost, his Range, his Stamina Drain and the uncharged Jab stagger on walls. Do you really, like for real, see any nerf that is not targeted at the infinite death cut scene bullsh*t? He is now on par with most of the roster in my opinion. But he still can take half of an Assassins HP with one GB / Parry. Isn't that good enough?

Great summary. The forum designers should add a button next to Font and Size that automatically quotes this post. (semi-serious)

Charmzzz
10-06-2017, 03:24 PM
I know that he wasn't perfect before the patch and I said that
If you dodge at the right time when he is doing all of his unblockables you can deal quite a lot of damage
He has the lowest health in the game (tougher with the Shinobi)
It's a good idea to stop his infinite stamina draining stunning chains but now if the opponent dodges/parrys you will lose a lot of health
He has a short range
A Nobushi for example can just spam her long range attacks and dodge and the Centurion has to parry otherwise he is dead very quickly
even if parry to nobushi just start spaming again
The Orochi for example has the dodge attack (cant recall the name of the attack) so when the Centurion makes a kick the Orochi dodges and destroys the Centurion
Basically if you fight against a good dodger with a fast attacks (he will have longer range then you anytime) and you make 1 mistake almost half of your health is gone


1. Sorry, but using Kick as your opener is wrong. Just plain wrong. Use it when your enemy is out of Stamina already!

2. Dodge his unblockable heavy? Yeah good idea, except Cent can feint it into a GB if you dodge, and then follows a guaranteed uncharged heavy into uncharged jab OR a wall splat for a charged heavy into charged jab into eagles talon. Good idea to dodge Bro.

3. You know that YOU as Cent can dodge and parry too, right? I know I know, Cent mains didn't have to anticipate their opponents for a long time, they could just go all-in by spamming heavies with different timings until one connects... *sarcasm off*

4. Orochi dodge attack: dont use Kick as an Opener against Orochi. Problem solved. Adapt to your enemy, ever heard of that? Like I play PK, and I know that when I face a Berserker I will NEVER want to deflect him as his Hyperarmor will prevent him from being interrupted, so he hits me with his next attack.

5. Your last sentence is confusing. You lose half your health because you face a person who can dodge and attack fast? What? Parry or GB him once and you deal more damage to him than he could ever do with 3-4 dodge attacks...

I-ModernSpartan
10-06-2017, 06:25 PM
Oooo boohooo look at all the cry baby cent manes that though thay were good because thay were useing a broken op person now that heís more in line with the rest yous are crying because yous arenít any good and have no skills at all the words get good come to mind

You will still lose against a Centurion
He wasn't OP
No one is crying except for your cry of happiness

No skill XD
You are saying that Cent players have no skill but it's look like every Cent you fight against is destroying you

Come on you salty - play with the Cent

I-ModernSpartan
10-06-2017, 06:38 PM
What do you mean he does not attack fast and has no damage? That's just plain wrong. If there is any hero that can output damage fast it's the Centurion. He still can, even after these changes.

"not esspically strong nor fast attacks"
He can make a high damage combos with his charged heavy + eagles talon but almost all of the characters have a few high damage move (berserker's top heavy chain finisher for example)
His (the Cent) normal attacks aren't special in terms of speed/strengh (the Shukogi has strong attacks and the shinobi has fast attacks for example)
That is was I was trying to say...

Of course I wouldn't write a post saying that the Centurion normal attacks arent special in terms of speed/strengh... I wrote the rest in the beginning

UbiInsulin
10-06-2017, 06:46 PM
Great summary. The forum designers should add a button next to Font and Size that automatically quotes this post. (semi-serious)

If nothing else, I'll definitely make note of it as a well-received summary of the situation with Cent after the patch. Thanks a lot Charmzzz!

I-ModernSpartan
10-06-2017, 06:58 PM
1. Sorry, but using Kick as your opener is wrong. Just plain wrong. Use it when your enemy is out of Stamina already!

2. Dodge his unblockable heavy? Yeah good idea, except Cent can feint it into a GB if you dodge, and then follows a guaranteed uncharged heavy into uncharged jab OR a wall splat for a charged heavy into charged jab into eagles talon. Good idea to dodge Bro.

3. You know that YOU as Cent can dodge and parry too, right? I know I know, Cent mains didn't have to anticipate their opponents for a long time, they could just go all-in by spamming heavies with different timings until one connects... *sarcasm off*

4. Orochi dodge attack: dont use Kick as an Opener against Orochi. Problem solved. Adapt to your enemy, ever heard of that? Like I play PK, and I know that when I face a Berserker I will NEVER want to deflect him as his Hyperarmor will prevent him from being interrupted, so he hits me with his next attack.

5. Your last sentence is confusing. You lose half your health because you face a person who can dodge and attack fast? What? Parry or GB him once and you deal more damage to him than he could ever do with 3-4 dodge attacks...


1. I use 3 ways to start fighting an enemy: kick, eagles talon and counter attacking
It's hard to start fighting an enemy like I used to when I'm playing the Warden because the Cent has short range and a lot of people will just keep their distance until I use a kick/eagles talon...

2. You can also parry

3. Really? I know that the Warden (and any other hero) can dodge and parry... I'll check the next time I'll play for honor
I fought against a Centurion many times... the heavies spamming Cents are almost always being punished for that

4. I don't use the kick as an opener only... And if I can't use my kick I can't also use all of my unblockables...

5. I lose half of my health because the orochi uses his dodge attack and then the double top light combo or he just guard brake and uses top heavy...

Tyrjo
10-07-2017, 08:37 AM
1. I use 3 ways to start fighting an enemy: kick, eagles talon and counter attacking
It's hard to start fighting an enemy like I used to when I'm playing the Warden because the Cent has short range and a lot of people will just keep their distance until I use a kick/eagles talon...


Don't open with a kick, it's very predictable. It's the first thing an opponent expects.

Eagles talons is parry bait. Don't use it to open fights. Use it to chase down someone trying to get away.

I don't know what you mean by "counter attacking".

I-ModernSpartan
10-07-2017, 09:37 AM
Don't open with a kick, it's very predictable. It's the first thing an opponent expects.

Eagles talons is parry bait. Don't use it to open fights. Use it to chase down someone trying to get away.

I don't know what you mean by "counter attacking".

I know how to fight with the Cent
I keep changing my opener
These are my main openers

By counter attacking I mean that I use the parry counter or parry -> guard brake

HumoLoco
10-08-2017, 03:31 AM
If you play centurion and cant beat shinobi?

Have you try centurion's zone attack?

Its useful if shinobi is toying with you, use centurion's zone attack to ruin their enjoy of toying with you or laughing at their run away from you.

Parry counter is the best to stop any high level skills players, if you cant deal with high level skills players.

I have no idea what is useful to use his legion kick, but I usually use legion kick to bait them after his heavy attack to continue his mix-up combo. Once they are running out of stamina then enjoy the legion kick on them.

if you want to quick end them that you don't have time to deal with? I usually do heavy attack then full heavy charge to knock out them then zone attack instead of jump attack. if opponent is pressure you, use parry counter instead heavy attack then full heavy charge to knock out them then zone attack.


Centurion has a lot of potential with his nerfed. I played the nerfed centurion look same to me as last time i play him. Only if you are good with mix-up combo, you will have no problem with playing centurion.

I-ModernSpartan
10-08-2017, 02:37 PM
If you play centurion and cant beat shinobi?

Have you try centurion's zone attack?

Its useful if shinobi is toying with you, use centurion's zone attack to ruin their enjoy of toying with you or laughing at their run away from you.

Parry counter is the best to stop any high level skills players, if you cant deal with high level skills players.

I have no idea what is useful to use his legion kick, but I usually use legion kick to bait them after his heavy attack to continue his mix-up combo. Once they are running out of stamina then enjoy the legion kick on them.

if you want to quick end them that you don't have time to deal with? I usually do heavy attack then full heavy charge to knock out them then zone attack instead of jump attack. if opponent is pressure you, use parry counter instead heavy attack then full heavy charge to knock out them then zone attack.


Centurion has a lot of potential with his nerfed. I played the nerfed centurion look same to me as last time i play him. Only if you are good with mix-up combo, you will have no problem with playing centurion.

Dude
When have I said that I cant beat a shinobi?

I think that Im a decent Centurion player
KD ratio is higher then 1
50% + duel winning ratio

I've won and lost against each hero

Ianoneshot
10-08-2017, 02:40 PM
they just got rid of his cutscene. If you say you suck as playing him then that means you rely on that cutscene. I got the hang of cent after a while and was kicking A** despite me never really playing him.

Ghostwind84
10-08-2017, 02:48 PM
This is not even a nerf to cent this is a real FIX they could have been done months ago acording game health. Still have the best gb/parry punish of the game, still have the fastest heavy mix up combos, still have the stupid wall splat on charged jab after gb/parry, and still have the best stamina drain of whole game, imo is not even close to be balanced.

I-ModernSpartan
10-08-2017, 03:02 PM
they just got rid of his cutscene. If you say you suck as playing him then that means you rely on that cutscene. I got the hang of cent after a while and was kicking A** despite me never really playing him.

"I think that Im a decent Centurion player
KD ratio is higher then 1
50% + duel winning ratio"

I said that the Cent needs a small buff... small

Actually I wrote this post because I was playing against a Cent and I saw that he needs a little buff
Just to remind you (all of you not just you specifically) that Im also a Warden player
My Cent is only 2 - 3 levels higher then my Warden
I also play the War Lord sometimes... My war lord is about 1 Rep lower then my Warden

I-ModernSpartan
10-08-2017, 03:20 PM
This is not even a nerf to cent this is a real FIX they could have been done months ago acording game health. Still have the best gb/parry punish of the game, still have the fastest heavy mix up combos, still have the stupid wall splat on charged jab after gb/parry, and still have the best stamina drain of whole game, imo is not even close to be balanced.

"imo is not even close to be balanced."
Really? not even close?

Lowest health in the game (on par with the shinobi)
A very short range (maybe even the shortest)
not esspically strong nor fast attacks

I remember that my first fights against the Cent were terrible (and btw... I bought him as soon as he came out)
I just watched the screen as I could do absolutely nothing and this made me quite a salty player like some of us here in the community :)
But I learned his strengths and weaknesses (play as a Cent helped very much) and now I dont think that he is OP or broken or anything like that (I'm not a Cent player only)

IesooMI
10-08-2017, 09:58 PM
Well they didn't do much with the nerfs, other than take away the jab splat which meh I could care less
About. It was nice for punishing peoples bad positioning when they just continousely walk backwards. Not sure why they removed the stun on kick, his neutral game was already average at best so now that it's even worse I guess just turtle harder and enjoy those parry punishes that haven't changed.

HumoLoco
10-08-2017, 10:30 PM
Dude
When have I said that I cant beat a shinobi?

I think that Im a decent Centurion player
KD ratio is higher then 1
50% + duel winning ratio

I've won and lost against each hero



nice.
my centurion progression is
deathmatch mode is 66.67% winning. 2.89 kda
objective modes 60% winning 2.37 kda
duel modes 68% winning. 1.28 kda


last time i seen centurion progression was 70%+ and 2.9 ~3.2 kda. after that was ruined because of random team are trash. I play with my friends at most.


And it's depend on how you play centurion against any heroes.

I cant deal with high level skills are berserker and peacekeeper that is.

watsonclan335u
10-08-2017, 10:41 PM
[QUOTE=Ianoneshot;12994075]they just got rid of his cutscene. If you say you suck as playing him then that means you rely on that cutscene.


OMG this, thank you

I-ModernSpartan
10-09-2017, 12:03 PM
nice.
my centurion progression is
deathmatch mode is 66.67% winning. 2.89 kda
objective modes 60% winning 2.37 kda
duel modes 68% winning. 1.28 kda


last time i seen centurion progression was 70%+ and 2.9 ~3.2 kda. after that was ruined because of random team are trash. I play with my friends at most.


And it's depend on how you play centurion against any heroes.

I cant deal with high level skills are berserker and peacekeeper that is.

Nice
I wrote down my stats because of a guy who said that I've said that I can't beat a shinobi (I've never said that)
And another guy who said that I've said that I'm suck as a Cent (I've never said that)

I don't count that objective KDA (my objective KDA is 2.7) because it's depends on your teams

I-ModernSpartan
10-09-2017, 12:05 PM
[QUOTE=Ianoneshot;12994075]they just got rid of his cutscene. If you say you suck as playing him then that means you rely on that cutscene.


OMG this, thank you

Never said that... Never
And I didnt use his wall splat most of the time btw

Charmzzz
10-09-2017, 12:36 PM
Never said that... Never
And I didnt use his wall splat most of the time btw

Why are you complaining then? If you didn't rely on the infinite-wall-splat combo, then which nerf specifically hurts you?

HumoLoco
10-09-2017, 06:10 PM
Nice
I wrote down my stats because of a guy who said that I've said that I can't beat a shinobi (I've never said that)
And another guy who said that I've said that I'm suck as a Cent (I've never said that)

I don't count that objective KDA (my objective KDA is 2.7) because it's depends on your teams


Yea being random team on dominion are suck.


Yesterday, I fought with shinobi, i hated shinobi now. because they keep distance away from me and trolling me with their dodge after light attack. I think they should nerf shinobi's light attack by slow their light attack down a bit, but not nerf his light attack top that second light attack is guaranteed if first one hits. i guess not.

BTTrinity
10-09-2017, 09:15 PM
I can agree that Cent was nerfed way to hard, I dont know what it is but I feel like hes far easier to fight than most classes now... and this is coming from someone who hates Centurion with every inch of his body.

Though Shinobi is not too strong imo hes better than most mid tier heroes, but worse than all the top heroes like Gladiator, Warlord, PK. I think before Nerfing Shinobi again, they should probably focus on buffing the other low-mid tier heroes.

I-ModernSpartan
10-10-2017, 07:25 AM
I can agree that Cent was nerfed way to hard, I dont know what it is but I feel like hes far easier to fight than most classes now... and this is coming from someone who hates Centurion with every inch of his body.

Though Shinobi is not too strong imo hes better than most mid tier heroes, but worse than all the top heroes like Gladiator, Warlord, PK. I think before Nerfing Shinobi again, they should probably focus on buffing the other low-mid tier heroes.

The first paragrpah - I think that they nerfed him too much but I don't think it's far more easier... he can still punish you if you make a mistake
The Second one - imo the shinobi is a little bit too storng with his health buff (should have 95 - 100 not 110 HP)

Mighty_Mackerel
10-10-2017, 08:23 AM
Everyone up vote the hell out of Charmzzz's reply.