PDA

View Full Version : Pk needs rework (or buff)



scipion2002
10-06-2017, 02:45 AM
(I tryed to put this like 4 times god) Maybe for some people is madness of buffing pk but I got A lot of excuses and facts for why pk needs buf so first of all is her heavys... cmon she should be fast not a shugoki her heavys are the slowest of all assassins , at least give her enough speed on the heavy to get a guaranteed heavy when you do a gb heavy, another thing is the dodges because some dodges just still hit me and thats pretty dumb, next is one of that i dont really care but it stresses me out because im not like those pks that spams lights i USE them like 2 times and no more (some people say that I spam them just when i used it once) those lights.. people got so used to it that everytime i randomly throw a light they just parry or block it like nothing but is not that big of a deal tho, nexts is the super deflect... wow worst deflect i ever see in my life ok first it doest have superarmor, slow af, you cant parry later than doing the deflect and thats not cool cuz if i deflect a zerk and he does a superarmor heavy is going to hit me yes or yes(plus that because your a pk you almost alwalls get 3 hit killed and I have defence all the way up), cant do nothing later than you do the deflect because if you try to deflect zone is not gonna work because they can still block it like nothing so they dont get recovery for that and when you try to deflect soft feint heavy gb the peacekeeper is going to get pushed out like if they had recovery for doing a light plus they get a free gb and lastly his feats, i execute like 3 people and still dont get the 2nd feat some lawbringers already have the 3rd feat for killing 5 and thats not fair cuz pk is not good for antiganking so she needs her feats and i think thats about it i hope i dont get any hate messages xD and hope to ubisoft to watch this have a good day (I edited this cuz i just remembered that pk doesnt get a free heavy later than a gb pk needs that to get easier executions because they all die for bleeding im just saying but dont take this like a something to get buffed is just an idea and if pk gets just one of all this things I said I will be sooo happy and if ot doesnt at least tell me why :D now i can say have a good day ;P)

bmason1000
10-06-2017, 02:55 AM
So pk should gain renown faster. Does this include other assassins or just pk? Her heavies should be faster because other assassins have faster heavies. So when her heavies are buffed to be faster than glad should glad's be buffed afterward?

scipion2002
10-06-2017, 03:19 AM
So pk should gain renown faster. Does this include other assassins or just pk? Her heavies should be faster because other assassins have faster heavies. So when her heavies are buffed to be faster than glad should glad's be buffed afterward?

Read it again i edited it but about the renown, yeah the assassins or heros that are harder to get at least the 2 feat should get faster a bit

Antonioj26
10-06-2017, 03:40 AM
her heavies are not the slowest, shinobis and zerks are slower while Orochis and gladiators are faster. With warlord nerfed she's now the tied with glad for being the best 1v1 and she's one of the top picks for 4s. She absolutely does not need a buff, a rework maybe but not an outright buff. I'll agree that her deflect is bad but if you can deflect then you can parry and that has far better results outside of the few rare situations or match ups.

Also for the love of god, break up your posts in paragraphs if your going to write a novel. I'll be honest I didn't read past your complaints about deflect, but if your first few sentences were any indication of the rest of the post then I'm sure I'm not missing anything.

scipion2002
10-06-2017, 04:04 AM
her heavies are not the slowest, shinobis and zerks are slower while Orochis and gladiators are faster. With warlord nerfed she's now the tied with glad for being the best 1v1 and she's one of the top picks for 4s. She absolutely does not need a buff, a rework maybe but not an outright buff. I'll agree that her deflect is bad but if you can deflect then you can parry and that has far better results outside of the few rare situations or match ups.

Also for the love of god, break up your posts in paragraphs if your going to write a novel. I'll be honest I didn't read past your complaints about deflect, but if your first few sentences were any indication of the rest of the post then I'm sure I'm not missing anything.

First of all yeah.. sorry for putting in everything is just that i dont have any time to make this things an about that she is not the slowest then tell me why the heavy of the shinobi and the zerk get a guaranteed heavy later than a gb and on the 1v1s i almost never see pks buuut i know that her best is at 1v1s

On the 4v4s I almost never see a pk even when I see them I get exited because they must be good for using her these days but they just spam lights like every other pk

Antonioj26
10-06-2017, 04:54 AM
First of all yeah.. sorry for putting in everything is just that i dont have any time to make this things an about that she is not the slowest then tell me why the heavy of the shinobi and the zerk get a guaranteed heavy later than a gb and on the 1v1s i almost never see pks buuut i know that her best is at 1v1s

On the 4v4s I almost never see a pk even when I see them I get exited because they must be good for using her these days but they just spam lights like every other pk

Thats not how GB works, just because she cant land a heavy after it doesnt mean its slower than everyone elses just that Her window for GB doesn't last as long. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wwr17AtTDFU3BZY_81axLVMKdHdNZuV0wGOb589VKgc/edit#gid=0

here shows the list of damage and speed. Of course they just Spam lights its highly effective, if it ain't broke then don't fix it. I doubt PK is low in terms of being a popular or lower than the rest of the cast, I'm willing to bet your confirmation bias is stopping you from noticing how frequently shes being picked. Even if she was an unpopular pick it doesnt reduce her effectiveness, Conqueror was an unpopular pick because of his boring playstyle but it didn't stop him from being one of the top 3 characters.

Charmzzz
10-06-2017, 09:00 AM
Thats not how GB works, just because she cant land a heavy after it doesnt mean its slower than everyone elses just that Her window for GB doesn't last as long. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wwr17AtTDFU3BZY_81axLVMKdHdNZuV0wGOb589VKgc/edit#gid=0

here shows the list of damage and speed. Of course they just Spam lights its highly effective, if it ain't broke then don't fix it. I doubt PK is low in terms of being a popular or lower than the rest of the cast, I'm willing to bet your confirmation bias is stopping you from noticing how frequently shes being picked. Even if she was an unpopular pick it doesnt reduce her effectiveness, Conqueror was an unpopular pick because of his boring playstyle but it didn't stop him from being one of the top 3 characters.

But the list does not show the difference in GB's. Triple stab is 38 combined Damage (32 bleed + 6 direct), double stab into wall stagger dash heavy + dagger followup is 55 combined Damage. A heavy with dagger followup after GB alone would deal 48 Damage - that would be instantly the highest guaranteed punish after a parry / gb in the game if you leave out the wall stagger combos.

Deflect for a guaranteed stab does 30 bleed damage btw OP, it is like hitting a heavy. You just dont want to use it when you face people with hyperarmor, there you should just block / parry. Comes down to knowing your opponent and adapting properly. E.g. if you face a Lawbringer who spams Shove + Light / GB you can "easily" counterattack the Light with a Deflect into heavy Damage.

Imo a way to balance her is to slow down Zone and 2. Light by 100ms (all at 500ms then), give her the heavy cancel gb / dagger in chains back (does not work since removal of timesnap), make all heavy into dagger cancels unblockable to give her options to force a reaction (this is where PK lacks the most).

Zombie.Mantis
10-06-2017, 09:47 AM
LOL. there plenty of heroes that need to be on the buff list before PK. cough cough... Orochi, valk, kensai... pk is quite fine. her zone is so good and she has super fast lights. huge damage huge mobility. Yea she is worse than the gladiator and maybe shin obi now but please buff the ****ty heroes before pk.

Charmzzz
10-06-2017, 10:28 AM
LOL. there plenty of heroes that need to be on the buff list before PK. cough cough... Orochi, valk, kensai... pk is quite fine. her zone is so good and she has super fast lights. huge damage huge mobility. Yea she is worse than the gladiator and maybe shin obi now but please buff the ****ty heroes before pk.

Kensei gets a complete rework with new moves and animations (confirmed). Valk is not that bad imo, faced a Rep 40 Valk yesterday and her mixup potential is pretty good. She just does not deal that much Damage, but as she is marked as a Disabler I think that's fine. Orochi Buff? Lets compare to PK:
- Double Top Light confirmed if first one hits, confirmed Double Top Light after Storm Rush hit which deals a massive amount of damage combined (and is pretty much easy doable in 4v4)
- Fast Zone (100ms slower than PK, but not as stamina intensive)
- Deflect Mixup potential, PK has none (this makes Orochi Deflect viable against Characters with Hyperarmor where as PK Deflect is not viable in those situations)
- Guaranteed Heavy after GB (35 Damage) compared to the Triple Stab which deals 38 Damage combined Damage but does not execute

I think that Orochi and PK are not that far away from each other, especially in higher skill level play. They both need an unblockable move to have a tool against turtles. On Orochi I would give him an unblockable Storm Rush or that "Dodge-Back-Into-Top-Heavy-Move", both feintable. To compensate I would get rid of the confirmed double top light and buff some of his other damage values.

More like "rework" both than just buff.

Lyskir
10-06-2017, 10:30 AM
her heavies are not the slowest, shinobis and zerks are slower while Orochis and gladiators are faster. With warlord nerfed she's now the tied with glad for being the best 1v1 and she's one of the top picks for 4s. She absolutely does not need a buff, a rework maybe but not an outright buff. I'll agree that her deflect is bad but if you can deflect then you can parry and that has far better results outside of the few rare situations or match ups.

Also for the love of god, break up your posts in paragraphs if your going to write a novel. I'll be honest I didn't read past your complaints about deflect, but if your first few sentences were any indication of the rest of the post then I'm sure I'm not missing anything.

this...

scipion2002
10-06-2017, 03:40 PM
But the list does not show the difference in GB's. Triple stab is 38 combined Damage (32 bleed + 6 direct), double stab into wall stagger dash heavy + dagger followup is 55 combined Damage. A heavy with dagger followup after GB alone would deal 48 Damage - that would be instantly the highest guaranteed punish after a parry / gb in the game if you leave out the wall stagger combos.

Deflect for a guaranteed stab does 30 bleed damage btw OP, it is like hitting a heavy. You just dont want to use it when you face people with hyperarmor, there you should just block / parry. Comes down to knowing your opponent and adapting properly. E.g. if you face a Lawbringer who spams Shove + Light / GB you can "easily" counterattack the Light with a Deflect into heavy Damage.

Imo a way to balance her is to slow down Zone and 2. Light by 100ms (all at 500ms then), give her the heavy cancel gb / dagger in chains back (does not work since removal of timesnap), make all heavy into dagger cancels unblockable to give her options to force a reaction (this is where PK lacks the most).

About that 30 damage on the deflect is a lie because a heavy of her makes a bar and a lil plus the lil stab she has it makes a bar and a half but for the deflect is just half of a bar of instant damage and the other half is bleeding that sometimes it doesnt even stack up

Now those combos on the wall are real good but just on the wall and is not gonna be that good without a wall just like good ol centurion

DoctorMcBatman
10-06-2017, 03:44 PM
Others have commented pretty well with what I'd say, but the only thing I'd add is: you should go for Triple Stab/gouge after a successful GB, not a heavy.

Antonioj26
10-06-2017, 04:28 PM
About that 30 damage on the deflect is a lie because a heavy of her makes a bar and a lil plus the lil stab she has it makes a bar and a half but for the deflect is just half of a bar of instant damage and the other half is bleeding that sometimes it doesnt even stack up

Now those combos on the wall are real good but just on the wall and is not gonna be that good without a wall just like good ol centurion

Deflect is 30 damage. Look at the link I posted, it shows it. You're comparing pks wall combo to the best wall combo in the game, try comparing it to the rest of the cast and you'll see it's among the best at 55 damage. There's maybe 3 characters who can do more. Off the top of my head zerk, shugo, and cent. I could be missing someone and even shugos requires perfect spacing to get more damage off of.

Alustar.
10-06-2017, 09:25 PM
The problem most people have regarding playing PK is not understanding that most other players have already dealt with her so much that she just isn't the threat that she used to be.

Peacekeeper isn't under powered, she may need a tweak, but that in my opinion is something the entire original roster needs to bring them up to snuff with the newer heroes.

Her main issue is predictability. If you are fighting a noob, go ham. She's fast and hits hard enough that you can be done and on to the next with little effort. Against veterans, however you need to play far more conservatively. A lot of the more experienced players can parry her lights, especially if you spa them.

While I love this hero and would love to see her given some love, I don't want to go back to the old days when PK was all anyone ever talked about.

scipion2002
10-06-2017, 11:58 PM
Others have commented pretty well with what I'd say, but the only thing I'd add is: you should go for Triple Stab/gouge after a successful GB, not a heavy.

The thing about the 3 stab is that every time they are like half of a bar of health I gb hin and I GOT to do a 3 or 2 stab and is hard to get executions with her because her heavys are super slow and when i do that 2 stab they get killed bu bleeding and not from my execution

scipion2002
10-07-2017, 12:06 AM
The problem most people have regarding playing PK is not understanding that most other players have already dealt with her so much that she just isn't the threat that she used to be.

Peacekeeper isn't under powered, she may need a tweak, but that in my opinion is something the entire original roster needs to bring them up to snuff with the newer heroes.

Her main issue is predictability. If you are fighting a noob, go ham. She's fast and hits hard enough that you can be done and on to the next with little effort. Against veterans, however you need to play far more conservatively. A lot of the more experienced players can parry her lights, especially if you spa them.

While I love this hero and would love to see her given some love, I don't want to go back to the old days when PK was all anyone ever talked about.

Yup you got it I dont really care if they make her lights slower all i need is some combos because I took all the juice she got... I even do combos that nobody never did bit the first time it works... the second time maybe and the third time just no

Antonioj26
10-07-2017, 12:55 AM
The thing about the 3 stab is that every time they are like half of a bar of health I gb hin and I GOT to do a 3 or 2 stab and is hard to get executions with her because her heavys are super slow and when i do that 2 stab they get killed bu bleeding and not from my execution

They aren't slow though, we've been over this. Look at the spread sheet, I'm too lazy to list off where everyone sits but it's as clear as day that she's somewhere around average with the speed of her heavies maybe even a bit on the faster side. She also has her dash attack heavy that you can use for executions.

Zombie.Mantis
10-29-2017, 02:14 AM
Same skilled pk vs orochi is not even a fair fight for the orochi. Im not going into detail but any good player will agree. roach is just bad in 1v1.. top may do more damage but its predictable and his zone vs pk... not even close. his is slow, a good player can parry much easier than pk. all I'm going to say on it. orochi needs buff to be viable in 1v1. pk not so much.

Netcode_err_404
10-29-2017, 03:40 AM
pk needs a buff ?

LOL

HAve you guys heard about the interesting ratio between effectiveness and efforts ?


The common golden rule is, that if a x class requires 0 efforts, it shoudn't be meta.

Now lets apply this in FH.


Conq 0 efforts = meta
Raider 0 efforts = meta

Warden 0 efforts =meta

pk= 0 efforts = meta

Warlord 0 efforts = meta

Old cheese run shugoki o0 efforts = meta


Now as you can see, each of this characters are considered meta for a reason, they requires little to none effort and are super viable. Now lets consider a few other classes :


Kensei medium/high efforts = trash
HL high efforts = Weak.
Nobushi = High efforts unless you zone exploit.
bERSERKER medium efforts= bad


As you can see these are facts plain and simple. In my poin of view, HL should be a meta character if you are willing to learn him, but he is not, because its too "complex" and its easier to just spamming lights, or stampedes h24.


The main point is, that ******ed classes like pk, should not get any buff because the efforts you put into light spam with occasional turtling into zone canceled is little to none. And its super viable



If i would be a pk player i would istantly create a thread with reworks for her, because right now is a light spam machine nobody use her kit and i bet many "top players" don't even know what she can do.

I laugh every time i say "top players"

bmason1000
10-29-2017, 03:50 AM
Pk's out here struggling

wolffiend
10-29-2017, 05:51 PM
(I tryed to put this like 4 times god) Maybe for some people is madness of buffing pk but I got A lot of excuses and facts for why pk needs buf so first of all is her heavys... cmon she should be fast not a shugoki her heavys are the slowest of all assassins , at least give her enough speed on the heavy to get a guaranteed heavy when you do a gb heavy, another thing is the dodges because some dodges just still hit me and thats pretty dumb, next is one of that i dont really care but it stresses me out because im not like those pks that spams lights i USE them like 2 times and no more (some people say that I spam them just when i used it once) those lights.. people got so used to it that everytime i randomly throw a light they just parry or block it like nothing but is not that big of a deal tho, nexts is the super deflect... wow worst deflect i ever see in my life ok first it doest have superarmor, slow af, you cant parry later than doing the deflect and thats not cool cuz if i deflect a zerk and he does a superarmor heavy is going to hit me yes or yes(plus that because your a pk you almost alwalls get 3 hit killed and I have defence all the way up), cant do nothing later than you do the deflect because if you try to deflect zone is not gonna work because they can still block it like nothing so they dont get recovery for that and when you try to deflect soft feint heavy gb the peacekeeper is going to get pushed out like if they had recovery for doing a light plus they get a free gb and lastly his feats, i execute like 3 people and still dont get the 2nd feat some lawbringers already have the 3rd feat for killing 5 and thats not fair cuz pk is not good for antiganking so she needs her feats and i think thats about it i hope i dont get any hate messages xD and hope to ubisoft to watch this have a good day (I edited this cuz i just remembered that pk doesnt get a free heavy later than a gb pk needs that to get easier executions because they all die for bleeding im just saying but dont take this like a something to get buffed is just an idea and if pk gets just one of all this things I said I will be sooo happy and if ot doesnt at least tell me why :D now i can say have a good day ;P)

The only buff I can see her getting is superarmor on her deflect pk is in a very good spot right now and does not need any other buff then that I think.

kbvlcvfkhgc
10-30-2017, 04:35 PM
in my experience the PK is still an extremely viable and dangerous character that regularly wrecks the battlefield and comes top on the end game kill list, insane fast distance dodging, fast lights, bleed bleed bleed, its a hard sell to argue that she needs a buff in my opinion when there are other characters with way less attributes

Netcode_err_404
10-31-2017, 01:19 AM
in my experience the PK is still an extremely viable and dangerous character that regularly wrecks the battlefield and comes top on the end game kill list, insane fast distance dodging, fast lights, bleed bleed bleed, its a hard sell to argue that she needs a buff in my opinion when there are other characters with way less attributes

Nerfing her lights and boosting her whole kit should be a good starting point so people who use her, would start to actually play the class instead spamming r1's and zones till you die.


And that is valid with ALL assassins.

IlMacgyverIl
11-01-2017, 05:47 PM
(I tryed to put this like 4 times god) Maybe for some people is madness of buffing pk but I got A lot of excuses and facts for why pk needs buf so first of all is her heavys... cmon she should be fast not a shugoki her heavys are the slowest of all assassins , at least give her enough speed on the heavy to get a guaranteed heavy when you do a gb heavy, another thing is the dodges because some dodges just still hit me and thats pretty dumb, next is one of that i dont really care but it stresses me out because im not like those pks that spams lights i USE them like 2 times and no more (some people say that I spam them just when i used it once) those lights.. people got so used to it that everytime i randomly throw a light they just parry or block it like nothing but is not that big of a deal tho, nexts is the super deflect... wow worst deflect i ever see in my life ok first it doest have superarmor, slow af, you cant parry later than doing the deflect and thats not cool cuz if i deflect a zerk and he does a superarmor heavy is going to hit me yes or yes(plus that because your a pk you almost alwalls get 3 hit killed and I have defence all the way up), cant do nothing later than you do the deflect because if you try to deflect zone is not gonna work because they can still block it like nothing so they dont get recovery for that and when you try to deflect soft feint heavy gb the peacekeeper is going to get pushed out like if they had recovery for doing a light plus they get a free gb and lastly his feats, i execute like 3 people and still dont get the 2nd feat some lawbringers already have the 3rd feat for killing 5 and thats not fair cuz pk is not good for antiganking so she needs her feats and i think thats about it i hope i dont get any hate messages xD and hope to ubisoft to watch this have a good day (I edited this cuz i just remembered that pk doesnt get a free heavy later than a gb pk needs that to get easier executions because they all die for bleeding im just saying but dont take this like a something to get buffed is just an idea and if pk gets just one of all this things I said I will be sooo happy and if ot doesnt at least tell me why :D now i can say have a good day ;P)

I have seen plenty of PKs tear everything in sight apart. These PKs are using most of the tools at her disposal.
For crying out loud her dodge attack is a heavy!
Use that to queue up an execution.
Not to mention, landing that gives you the potential to get a bleed in.

I think her heavies are slow because they are trying to encourage you to take advantage of her dagger cancel, guardbreak cancel, and feint to confuse the enemy.

This is kind of the logic behind the orochi. Feint to open up your opponent for top light.
*Bam!, Bam!*
“thank you sir, or madam” *tips hat*

Her deflect is decent, but you have to know when to use it to properly take advantage of it.
I’ve seen the most success against heavy characters.

Her mix up potential is devastating when used properly. Possibly even more punishing than the berserkers, when used correctly.

I refused to play her since release, since everyone and their moms was using PK, but I did play her during the beta, it was pretty fun.

I just recruited her after I was inspired by someone that said that no one knows how to properly play the PK. I believe that they are correct, and I want to be one of the few who could prove that post wrong.

I say just practice her mix ups, and find something that works. She seems like I could do some serious damage, but in my humble opinion.... she’s a bit boring compared to the shinobi.

Devils-_-legacy
11-01-2017, 06:17 PM
All I seem to see on ps4 is aoe double light

NinjaRonin85
11-01-2017, 07:51 PM
Pk is the most op in 4v4 on ps4 even more so than shinobi the reason is her feat damage reduction makes her hard to kill well before shinobi gets his 4th feat heal on attack add max gear and yeah so op.

I'm sure a good pk can beat a good shinobi when the pk has her 2nd feat and shinobi has nothing.

JuiceManDrew
11-01-2017, 10:24 PM
Please take down this thread because every competitive player knows that PK is OP on consoles and she’s one of the first characters that needs to be nerfed. Character was banned from MLG

SwellChemosabe
11-01-2017, 11:55 PM
lol I just love the collective "**** you" this thread got.

RoosterIlluzion
11-02-2017, 03:07 AM
Buff? You need to get into rehab for that crack addiction.