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XyZspineZyX
12-10-2003, 05:39 AM
Kudos to all those who helped make IL2FB. However, I must say that I'm sad to see that as much info as there is on plane specs, the 51 still needs work. Thank God, it's gotten better in 1.21, but it still does not have the high altitude performance that it should have. It should have a high ceiling than the 47, but I can get the 47 higher alot easier. Too high in the 51 I can barely get enough speed to stay up. Flying straight I was having difficulties keeping 300mph. In the 47, I managed to get higher and keep a higher speed. About 370mph. Also, in maneuevers I bleed speed much faster in the 51.

Please don't missunderstand me, I love flying FB. It's just I've been waiting for so long for the mustang and will it's specifications well known, I find it frustrating that I keep finding a plane that is not near in specs in several regards.

If anyone can point out something I may be doing wrong, please let me know. I was flying at 95% throttle, cowling at position 2, and trimmed out to fly straight. Any more throttle or closing the cowling caused me to overheat. I was barely running 300 mph at about 10.2K. Prop pitch was at 95-90%, each setting made no difference. Any more prop pitch and I hear my rpms start to drop big time.

Anyway, I just wanted to post pointing out what I noticed. If the mistake is on my end, please disregard. I'll be flying this almost daily regardless.

XyZspineZyX
12-10-2003, 05:39 AM
Kudos to all those who helped make IL2FB. However, I must say that I'm sad to see that as much info as there is on plane specs, the 51 still needs work. Thank God, it's gotten better in 1.21, but it still does not have the high altitude performance that it should have. It should have a high ceiling than the 47, but I can get the 47 higher alot easier. Too high in the 51 I can barely get enough speed to stay up. Flying straight I was having difficulties keeping 300mph. In the 47, I managed to get higher and keep a higher speed. About 370mph. Also, in maneuevers I bleed speed much faster in the 51.

Please don't missunderstand me, I love flying FB. It's just I've been waiting for so long for the mustang and will it's specifications well known, I find it frustrating that I keep finding a plane that is not near in specs in several regards.

If anyone can point out something I may be doing wrong, please let me know. I was flying at 95% throttle, cowling at position 2, and trimmed out to fly straight. Any more throttle or closing the cowling caused me to overheat. I was barely running 300 mph at about 10.2K. Prop pitch was at 95-90%, each setting made no difference. Any more prop pitch and I hear my rpms start to drop big time.

Anyway, I just wanted to post pointing out what I noticed. If the mistake is on my end, please disregard. I'll be flying this almost daily regardless.

XyZspineZyX
12-10-2003, 05:51 AM
This is pretty important to know:

Do you mean MPH IAS (indicated airspeed) from the cockpit guage or the red speedbar? Both show IAS, not TAS. Also, the speedbar shows KMH, not MPH.

To get your true airspeed, use CRTL+F1 and use the KMH guage there. I think you'll find you're actually going much faster.

Another thing, FB doesn't model high altitude very well. You go up beyond 6000m and it doesn't model it right.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
12-10-2003, 05:55 AM
Opps, sorry. It's a habit to talk in mph. Yes, speed mentioned is not indicated airspeed, but true airspeed. Indicated was around 700 I think, can't really remember since I don't pay much attention to it.

XyZspineZyX
12-10-2003, 05:59 AM
What altitude were you at? 10000m?

Also, try leaving radiator on automatic. Seems to work better that way, don't ask me why.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
12-10-2003, 06:07 AM
Looking at my book, the P-51 reaches its max speed at 25,000ft (7625m). Maybe you ought to see what results you get at that altitude.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
12-10-2003, 06:14 AM
P-47 reaches it's peak performance at 9000m.

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
12-10-2003, 03:28 PM
Also keep in mind that all aircraft in FB don't perform exactly as they are supposed to at high altitude. High alt modeling isn't as good as the low altitude modeling. A limit of the game engine evidently.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig.jpg
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill

XyZspineZyX
12-10-2003, 03:37 PM
You will fly rings round any German aircraft at high altitude. Is this historic?


<center><img src= "http://homepage.ntlworld.com/n.bulger/Emil_Bug.jpg">

AKA JG5_Emil

"I wish we all had the courage to confine our defence to three simple words....LICK MY A*S!" Herman Goering

XyZspineZyX
12-10-2003, 09:27 PM
51 and generally all USAF aircraft are overmodelled. So please stop complaining. cause you alredy have the best A/C.

XyZspineZyX
12-10-2003, 09:35 PM
"P-47 reaches it's peak performance at 9000m."

Yup.

As compared to the P-51D, which reaches peak performance between 7500m~8300m. Over that, even the 'great high-alt performer' continuously diminishes in both speed and climb rate.

Not to mention the fact the 300 indicated is actually a pretty high speed at over 10k.

-----------
Due to pressure from the moderators, the sig returns to..

"It's the machine, not the man." - Materialist, and proud of it!

XyZspineZyX
12-10-2003, 09:47 PM
yeah
i read somewhere a p40 would sometimes read 90 at high alt
alison engine not good at all at high alt


whineingu /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
12-11-2003, 02:32 AM
Reozil wrote:
- 51 and generally all USAF aircraft are overmodelled.
- So please stop complaining. cause you alredy have
- the best A/C.
-

I agree.
Can't understand you actually want it to be better? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
I'd rather see it toned down a bit within reasonable limits so it's interesting to fly again.

XyZspineZyX
12-11-2003, 06:24 AM
I tryed the P-51 and i thought it didn't fly that well, so I avoid it. I don't care if they have the P-51 or not, its a beauty to look at with the new skins I have, but I like the 109F-4 and Hurricane MKI. Even if it had the performance of an 109F-4 I think I might fly it now and then.

XyZspineZyX
12-11-2003, 07:04 AM
DKP wrote:
- You will fly rings round any German aircraft at high
- altitude. Is this historic?

I dont think so DKP.

The only German plane i have had up at 10,000m was the BF-109K4. and it did pretty good. I think i had it upto about 685kmh TAS. this was with web on though.

I think top speed for the stang at 10km alt is 648kmh TAS. I have managed to get the P-51 to go 642kmh TAS at 10km alt. to me she seems pretty close to what it should be.

I do beleave the P-47 is faster then the P-51 at 10,000m alt. the 109K4 and the P-47 are very close speed wize up there.


I havent tride any other German plane's at 10km alt but i know the 109K4 is a bit faster then the Pony. i also think it's suppose to be a bit faster.



1st Lut. 361stMapleTiger.


Proud member of FBAA. and i have issues.

XyZspineZyX
12-11-2003, 08:56 AM
To quote Maple Tiger:

I haven't tried any other German planes at 10km alt but I know the 109K4 is a bit faster than the Pony. I also think it's supposed to be a bit faster.

I agree after having flown both Doras and K4's offline against the Mustang. The K4 is the only Axis aircraft as far as I know that can outpace the P51. The Mustang is a lot of fun to fly, but I just can't get used to those .50's which don't give much feedback on how well you're shooting. She does have a good view from the cockpit, however, and since Skychimp hasn't posted any complaints about her roll rate I'd say the Pony FM is as accurate as can be expected. If so, I can understand why Luftwaffe pilots feared her. In a chase at altitudes above around 3000 meters I can barely keep up with the P51 in my Dora even at 110% power and if I find one on my six it's time to point the nose down and spiral because I know she'll be on top of me fast.

By the way, the Dynamic Campaign Generator at Mudmover's site is fantastic for those wishing to fly U.S. campaigns. I love the Normandy maps, and the generator allows various default settings such as transit altitude, pilot skill and mission type. Many thanks! But after having flown a few missions with the Mustang, I went back to the K4 to defend the beaches. Nothing climbs like that baby, and the sound of that MK108 cannon hitting home ensures you can move on to the next threat. Just stay away from those B17's!

"He who hesitates is lost" - John Paul Jones, father of the American Navy

XyZspineZyX
12-11-2003, 05:25 PM
Lufbery_boy,

I spent two hours in the QMB testing convergence settings for the P-51,P-47 and P-40. Targets where 4 KI-84's and alt 1000m.

I tride 300m, 275m, 250m, 225m, 200m, 175m and 150m convergence. Also i was using BnZ tactics, yo yo's and hammer heads.

The P-47 at 300m convergence did pretty good. 250m and 200m where the pits. but 150m was deadly.

The P-51 same as above.

The P-40 at 150m convergence was kind of crapy. i found setting the convergence to 200m was the most effective.

Note: these where high energy atacks i was using while in the Pony and Jug. Firing at 250m or 200m convergence deppending on how fast i was at the time. i noticed when i broke off at about 100m the target was toast most of the time.

Your right though, basicaly the only time i can tell im hitting the tagret plane is when there is stuff flying off lol.





1st Lut. 361stMapleTiger.


Proud member of FBAA. and i have issues.

XyZspineZyX
12-11-2003, 05:52 PM
Sam - when your P-51 engaged my P-47 on a one-on-one the other night you were above your maximum "ideal" combat ceiling. You were at about 9000 - 9500m while I flew about to oumanouver you at around 10,500m. The P-51 performance improves to about 8000m? but then degrades quickly above this altitude, whilst the performance of the P-47 continues to improve the higher it goes, with 9000-11,000m seeming ideal.

Had we been down at 8000m or below, the resultant of our combat situation would probably have been reversed. As you stated in the game, you "didn't realize that high altitude performance of the P-51 was this bad". Actually, its not that bad - its just that the capability of the P-47 continuously improves with altitude (also to a point), but this reference point is at an altitude much higher than that of the P-51.


Message Edited on 12/11/0301:50PM by ISU-152

XyZspineZyX
12-11-2003, 06:39 PM
The P-51 is pretty much bang on, I have done many tests both in RC01 and the 1.21 and I tell you the Mustang is one heck of a plane. However comparing it at 10K, is not where it's performance envelope is. As many have stated the Pony really shines at 5k-8K, that is where she rules the roost. Above that and you are talking about the P-47's domain.
~S!
Eagle
CO 361st vFG

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XyZspineZyX
12-11-2003, 07:23 PM
Maple Tiger

Thanks much for the convergence tip. I'll reset my convergence to 150 m and give the Stang another try. I had been using my standard 300 m convergence for the MG's and 200 for cannon, which is a good setting for the Dora where deflection shooting is often necessary. I'd always thought the Mustang's .50 caliber were less susceptible to gravity effects due to their high muzzle velocities so was tempted to shoot long. But 150 m. is definitely a good kill range for any aircraft, so long as you can avoid collisions!

"He who hesitates is lost" - John Paul Jones, father of the American Navy

XyZspineZyX
12-11-2003, 07:47 PM
sorry but thats just wrong. It doesn't matter what speed the K4 can do in a striaght line the pony will run rings round any German aircraft at 10,000m. Are you sure you have tried to fight a human piloted pony with a K4.




<center><img src= "http://homepage.ntlworld.com/n.bulger/Emil_Bug.jpg">

AKA JG5_Emil

"I wish we all had the courage to confine our defence to three simple words....LICK MY A*S!" Herman Goering

XyZspineZyX
12-11-2003, 10:11 PM
DKP wrote:
- sorry but thats just wrong. It doesn't matter what
- speed the K4 can do in a striaght line the pony will
- run rings round any German aircraft at 10,000m. Are
- you sure you have tried to fight a human piloted
- pony with a K4.


Well from my speed tests and from what i have read, the BF109K4 is faster then the pony.

this is not my opinion, its a fact.




1st Lut. 361stMapleTiger.


Proud member of FBAA. and i have issues.

XyZspineZyX
12-11-2003, 10:33 PM
Maple Tiger is correct regarding the speed. As far as flying circles around the luftwaffe, I've yet to see anything as such. The D9 and the K4 both outclass the p-51 at ten thousand meters. To test out this "theory" my friends and I got a LAN game set up. Lo and behold, the '51 was cannon fodder at 10,000 meters and one hell of a fight at 6000, same pilots(no Ai whatsoever) same evening. So yes DPK, I have been in a K4 and shot down a P-51 flown by a better, more experienced pilot at the stated altitude. I even did it in a G-10, G-14, and oddly enough, an A-4, and for the super wierd, I downed a '51 with a Bf-109E-4 at 2000 meters, same human pilot.

XyZspineZyX
12-12-2003, 11:24 PM
Well If you would like to find me on HL I would like to test this with one of you

I fly as JG5_Emil

regards


<center><img src= "http://homepage.ntlworld.com/n.bulger/Emil_Bug.jpg">

AKA JG5_Emil

"I wish we all had the courage to confine our defence to three simple words....LICK MY A*S!" Herman Goering