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BigSpence13
09-21-2017, 09:55 PM
Other than the OP Centurion, which hero is considered to be the 'best' or most geared specifically for 1v1 Duels / Tourneys?

D

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-21-2017, 09:57 PM
Other than the OP Centurion, which hero is considered to be the 'best' or most geared specifically for 1v1 Duels / Tourneys?

D

Gladiator is considered the best right now

Lyskir
09-21-2017, 11:11 PM
Gladiator and PK

InebriatedPalm
09-21-2017, 11:51 PM
Meh, I always thought it really just depends on who you're good with. I mean, a good raider could still beat a warlord, cent, glad, etc. in a 1v1. Not sure this is something that could be generalized unless you're talking about the very minute differences in move set and kits. I'm a bit biased in thinking the Berserker is best for 1v1 but simply because he's one of my best hero's to use.

I'm not entirely convinced that it can be rounded down to match ups either because a good zerker player could still beat a warlord and a good Valk could still beat a lawbie (or whoever the **** is considered to be her worst match up)

UbiNoty
09-22-2017, 02:01 AM
You should play heroes that fit your playstyle best as you're more likely to be better at them - and as you play more, the more likely you are to win more as you get better (plus you'll have more fun too!).
Also, it looks like theres a mega-balance update just on the horizon, so I definitely expect tier lists to shift around when that happens.

Xaviloga
09-22-2017, 02:51 PM
Errr.... No. There are heroes stronger than others. Dunno if in the future it will change, dont look like it will happen soon. Two new heroes end of season, meta change.... long time to wait for a real balance. Its not a complain, is a fact. I can live with it and play the game happily, but i know there is no balance and i dont wait for it soon.

Charmzzz
09-22-2017, 03:14 PM
Gladi and PK? Who won all the Tournaments before? WL, Warden, PK...

WL still has the best overall kit. A Shugoki turtle who relies on GB into Demon Embrace is almost impossible to beat. Nobushis before the unlock fix were extremely hard to beat, too. It really depends on the platform you play on, and the matchups and tactics you will face in Duels / Tournaments. Only WL is good against anything imo.

Who says Gladi and PK are best 1v1 atm? I beat Gladiators and other PK's pretty consistently.

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-22-2017, 03:23 PM
Gladi and PK? Who won all the Tournaments before? WL, Warden, PK...

WL still has the best overall kit. A Shugoki turtle who relies on GB into Demon Embrace is almost impossible to beat. Nobushis before the unlock fix were extremely hard to beat, too. It really depends on the platform you play on, and the matchups and tactics you will face in Duels / Tournaments. Only WL is good against anything imo.

Who says Gladi and PK are best 1v1 atm? I beat Gladiators and other PK's pretty consistently.

You mean WL and Pk. Of course gladiator hadn't won all the tournaments before he just came out a month ago, can't really discredit him for not winning tournaments he wasn't around for. The only tourney I can think of that warden won was the ESL PS4 but no others come to mind. WL is was hit very hard with the last set of nerfs, he lost the number 1 spot.

"Who says Gladi and PK are best 1v1 atm? I beat Gladiators and other PK's pretty consistently" this is my favorite part about your post since you say this as a PK. Of course one of the best characters in the game can beat the other best character in the game and a mirror match.

Devils-_-legacy
09-22-2017, 03:32 PM
At least he now more balanced was a beast since s1 lol

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-22-2017, 03:38 PM
At least he now more balanced was a beast since s1 lol

He definitely needed a nerf but they went way too far.

Devils-_-legacy
09-22-2017, 03:52 PM
I'd say he's balanced he's gone from a having the best kit plus so the headbutt the ruining grab I'm just glad they finally done it and people have caused a stir in s1 from a failed nerf ( if anyone readers that was funny as hell 200 replys and they didn't even touch apon his issues just heath regeneration in combat)

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-22-2017, 04:03 PM
I'd say he's balanced he's gone from a having the best kit plus so the headbutt the ruining grab I'm just glad they finally done it and people have caused a stir in s1 from a failed nerf ( if anyone readers that was funny as hell 200 replys and they didn't even touch apon his issues just heath regeneration in combat)

I get that but the problem is now there's even less viable characters at the top. I know balancing a game is difficult but I think it would have been better to try and improve other characters. For example, let's just say there were 3 characters that were viable at top level play (I'm not saying that's the actual number I'm just using it as an example). If you nerf one now there's only 2. Would have been better to buff any of the guys at midtier and make it so 4 characters are viable.

Devils-_-legacy
09-22-2017, 04:10 PM
No because that wouldnt bride the gap to all players all lead to more balancing work maybe in the future that would be viable but atm my opinion is that it was long over due ik some people think he should be left alone but it's not like they turned him into trash but I am slightly bias on this as the things they nurf I've asked for

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-22-2017, 05:14 PM
No because that wouldnt bride the gap to all players all lead to more balancing work maybe in the future that would be viable but atm my opinion is that it was long over due ik some people think he should be left alone but it's not like they turned him into trash but I am slightly bias on this as the things they nurf I've asked for

But it would make it so there are more viable characters, now all the top level is going to have is pk and glad. You see more variety at the mid level play because the strength of the character isnt nearly as important as it is at higher levels. I don't get this logic, so you'd rather have 14 heroes that suck by nerfing instead of having only 12 heroes that suck by buffing?

Devils-_-legacy
09-22-2017, 05:25 PM
I'll use your eg but from my way of seeing it now there 2 hero's that you say are viable but I'd say need to be changed to be in line with the rest of the mid tier as you said and then buff the low levels

Devils-_-legacy
09-22-2017, 05:28 PM
But I personally think the majority of the hero's are balanced and I've said that for a while but atm most people just parry punish to play(I hate that btw) I'll wait and see how the defense meta changes if you may be right

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-22-2017, 05:43 PM
I'll use your eg but from my way of seeing it now there 2 hero's that you say are viable but I'd say need to be changed to be in line with the rest of the mid tier as you said and then buff the low levels

that would be great but UBI has a long history of over nerfing characters into oblivion bringing them from top to the bottom. See shin, conq, and warlord for example.

S0Mi_xD
09-22-2017, 06:03 PM
All this talk about viable heroes . . . tier lists ... nerfing into oblivion ... from top to bottom. -.-

I hate it like people talk about this topic (especially "high lvl player/competitive player")

I would explain myself, but I went through this so many times - - - I am just sick of this topic.

Devils-_-legacy
09-22-2017, 06:04 PM
Warlord was not over doing it hes still a strong hero, My mains a shinobi he's not nurfed to the ground he is weak + prone to gb but yh the conquer was way too much but at the time it was a bit justified because of his feats and the way revenge and parry was a instant win alll you needed to do was stand still or Shield bash pop revenge done after the revenge nurf he really should of had some rework done to him but no one agreed with me at that time lol but I do see your point we just see from diffrent prospectives

S0Mi_xD
09-22-2017, 06:04 PM
But I personally think the majority of the hero's are balanced and I've said that for a while but atm most people just parry punish to play(I hate that btw) I'll wait and see how the defense meta changes if you may be right

That's right :) one person who really understands the situation.

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-22-2017, 06:08 PM
All this talk about viable heroes . . . tier lists ... nerfing into oblivion ... from top to bottom. -.-

I hate it like people talk about this topic (especially "high lvl player/competitive player")

I would explain myself, but I went through this so many times - - - I am just sick of this topic.

Lol then why even bother chiming in?

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-22-2017, 06:12 PM
Warlord was not over doing it hes still a strong hero, My mains a shinobi he's not nurfed to the ground he is weak + prone to gb but yh the conquer was way too much but at the time it was a bit justified because of his feats and the way revenge and parry was a instant win alll you needed to do was stand still or Shield bash pop revenge done after the revenge nurf he really should of had some rework done to him but no one agreed with me at that time lol but I do see your point we just see from diffrent prospectives

I understand the overall goal that Ubi had with those nerfs was to make the game balanced as a whole but instead they made the list shorter. Not to say those nerfs weren't justified, just that they went too far.

Devils-_-legacy
09-22-2017, 06:14 PM
I dont think he's trying to be rude we tried to explain the same thing to some 3 days ago that ended up a bit sour and tried to say our opinions aren't valid ect ect it can be frustrating specially on fourm that isn't your first language 😊

Devils-_-legacy
09-22-2017, 06:19 PM
I do see your point and agree on some of them but I do think as a whole many hero's are balanced the game play it's self has shifted since the beta alpha stages were the defence meta wasn't a thing the game play was very diffrent but no choice they make can suite everyone but I'm sure if the number drastically changes of wl kills they will look into it and find were they have gone wrong it is a case of trial and error

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-22-2017, 06:22 PM
I do see your point and agree on some of them but I do think as a whole many hero's are balanced the game play it's self has shifted since the beta alpha stages were the defence meta wasn't a thing the game play was very diffrent but no choice they make can suite everyone but I'm sure if the number drastically changes of wl kills they will look into it and find were they have gone wrong it is a case of trial and error

I'm not as confident as you are. They haven't tweaked any of the nerfs they did to conq and have acknowledged for months that he's not in a good place. Then you have kensei and zerk who have barely been touched yet been at the bottom since the beginning

Devils-_-legacy
09-22-2017, 06:28 PM
I'm not sure about zerker zero knowledge really (I belive somis is zerk main)love the hero can't use him for crap tho so I won't comment, the kensei is a bit of a noob stopper but his fient game very good I've got my biggest kill streak with him but can get difficult but that is the same for most heros if you go against someone turtling but that's the meta issue

Devils-_-legacy
09-22-2017, 06:29 PM
I wouldn't say confidence but since the release I've averaged 3hrs a day I'd say more addiction lol

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-22-2017, 06:30 PM
I'm not sure about zerker zero knowledge really (I belive somis is zerk main)love the hero can't use him for crap tho so I won't comment, the kensei is a bit of a noob stopper but his fient game very good I've got my biggest kill streak with him but can get difficult but that is the same for most heros if you go against someone turtling but that's the meta issue

Exactly, kensei is a noob stomper but Against experienced players he has no way in, zerk can be described the same way.

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-22-2017, 06:31 PM
I wouldn't say confidence but since the release I've averaged 3hrs a day I'd say more addiction lol

I meant confidence in ubi not yourself as a player.

Devils-_-legacy
09-22-2017, 06:34 PM
That's what I ment what dealer stops careing about there product lol

Devils-_-legacy
09-22-2017, 06:40 PM
If you try everything and still can't get any were then fair play to the person they must be very good and it is a game of skill

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-22-2017, 06:40 PM
That's what I ment what dealer stops careing about there product lol

I don't doubt they care, I just think they don't know what they are doing.

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-22-2017, 06:43 PM
If you try everything and still can't get any were then fair play to the person they must be very good and it is a game of skill

Not really, it didn't take any skill to spam shins kick prenerf, or stay in full block with warlord prenerf, or spam shield bash with conq prenerf, or shugoki oni charge prenerf, or..... (I can go on forever.)

Devils-_-legacy
09-22-2017, 06:43 PM
When it's come to gaining it is a very hard process to fix a game I rember when I was doing a course I forgot to close a container in the code and no one would move in a game and it was stickmen fighting ik the devs are way better them me but it's not as easy as you would think

Devils-_-legacy
09-22-2017, 06:44 PM
That's why there nurfed

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-22-2017, 06:46 PM
When it's come to gaining it is a very hard process to fix a game I rember when I was doing a course I forgot to close a container in the code and no one would move in a game and it was stickmen fighting ik the devs are way better them me but it's not as easy as you would think

I don't think it's easy but it's also not as difficult as they are making it, hence why I say they don't know what they are doing. For gods sake they nerfed oni charge from shugo into being basically useless and at best situational only to give it to raider a season later.

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-22-2017, 06:48 PM
That's why there nurfed

Right but it wasn't a game of skill then and it still isn't now. There are still mechanics and bugs that will tilt the scale no matter how good you are. You losing in those scenarios doesn't mean the other person is skilled or the better player.

Devils-_-legacy
09-22-2017, 06:50 PM
Ok I'm guna stop replying now lol or this would go on for hours

S0Mi_xD
09-22-2017, 09:47 PM
I dont think he's trying to be rude we tried to explain the same thing to some 3 days ago that ended up a bit sour and tried to say our opinions aren't valid ect ect it can be frustrating specially on fourm that isn't your first language 😊

100 points to gryffendor :)


I do see your point and agree on some of them but I do think as a whole many hero's are balanced the game play it's self has shifted since the beta alpha stages were the defence meta wasn't a thing the game play was very diffrent but no choice they make can suite everyone but I'm sure if the number drastically changes of wl kills they will look into it and find were they have gone wrong it is a case of trial and error

Right, also the defense meta got a face after a certain time - the time that was needed to adapt to the mechanic for most players.
As soon as people realized that just parring is the best defense and offense in once it was clear how to play.


I'm not as confident as you are. They haven't tweaked any of the nerfs they did to conq and have acknowledged for months that he's not in a good place. Then you have kensei and zerk who have barely been touched yet been at the bottom since the beginning

They balanced his too strong abilities, they are still useful, but not that easy to abuse anymore.
Conqu has the problem, that his balance is BS from the beginning - damn great defense that works as a counter offense at the same time, but nearly zero offense, the strong SB pre-nerf overshadowed those things.
As soon you meet someone who plays the def meta game, your chances are nearly zero. He is great and ****ty at the same time xD.
He is my third main, I picked him up and I did well with him to a certain point where you need bit more offense but that's not given anymore since they "balanced" him.

Warlord had nearly no downsides, safe dodges, safe full block with counter attacks, hyperarmor + weird animation that helps using his heavies bit "safer", a parry punish that was ridiculous.
Now his parry punish move is still good but not op. Dodges aren't 100% safe anymore like most other heroes (especially as a heavy class).
People where spoiled with those advantages since the beginning - and now they put him in the last place of their tier lists, call him trash even if he is still better than 80% of the cast.


I'm not sure about zerker zero knowledge really (I belive somis is zerk main)love the hero can't use him for crap tho so I won't comment, the kensei is a bit of a noob stopper but his fient game very good I've got my biggest kill streak with him but can get difficult but that is the same for most heros if you go against someone turtling but that's the meta issue

About Zerker, yup he is my number 1 since the beginning - and I can say pre-fix in 1.05 with his hyper armor (yes it is a fix not a buff, because it wasn't possible to make use of it in any way, therefor he lost his stamina reduction and we berserker feel this hard) he really was just a noob stomper.
After that fix it only got better, also it took a while to find the right rhythm with him (what is easier with most of the other heroes) - Kensei is similar, they made his mix ups better with a simple change.
Same for Raider - he was considered bottom tier since the beginning.
But in the right hands they are good heroes.

Tiers doesn't matter with the current meta - Because every hero is basically the "same", just an example:
If you have both players with the same skill lvl, all experienced the same way with every hero.
The strongest tool for every hero is Parry - so, those heroes who have the best parry punish are the "better heroes", because a better punish kills faster/needs less attempts/is more efficient.

The problem here is, to parry the enemy needs to attack, if both mainly play the meta game, this will turn into a staring contest or a feint contest.

The people started to build a way around this problem - and found moves they can easy abuse (shugoki run, raider run etc)
Tournaments are the best example for that.

But since Ubi balances or nerf such moves into the ground (shugokis run was really made useless - poor shugo)
They found other cheesy ways.

Player found some exploits to make attack faster and unparrieable - in other words, a way to outplay the current def meta.
And since this time chars with the best exploit are top in competitive/high lvl gameplay.

If the manage to fix def meta, and exploit meta (lets call it this way) and after that balance all heroes.
What will be left? The skill of the player - no cheese.

But I want to mention the current situation out of the Berserker perspective:
People say heroes like Berserker or kensei because it is harder to with with them, but it isn't impossible.

I still manage to beat really good people who can parry or block theoretically everything, because you can still outplay people with "trash heroes".
Same counts for people who abuse exploits, as soon they are not one hit kill exploits, you can manage it by adapting to those players play style.

If you don't know how to fight them, sure they beat you, but as soon as you know what to do, you can beat every hero with every hero, no matter what tier they are or if they abuse every fu-ck in the game.

Valk is my second main and I still manage to sweep people who claim that sweep is so easy to dodge that it is useless, most reactions are "wow wow wow"
It is funny if you bring back people to the ground, who think that they are superior, just because they play a certain hero that counts as "OP", can use exploits and parry.


(I am sorry for this BS I am talking but it is hard to get those feelings about all this crap into words, out of experience I can say that all those tier lists and "trash talking" of certain heroes is purely subjective)

S0Mi_xD
09-22-2017, 09:49 PM
Ok I'm guna stop replying now lol or this would go on for hours

I'll second that :)

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-22-2017, 10:09 PM
100 points to gryffendor :)



Right, also the defense meta got a face after a certain time - the time that was needed to adapt to the mechanic for most players.
As soon as people realized that just parring is the best defense and offense in once it was clear how to play.



They balanced his too strong abilities, they are still useful, but not that easy to abuse anymore.
Conqu has the problem, that his balance is BS from the beginning - damn great defense that works as a counter offense at the same time, but nearly zero offense, the strong SB pre-nerf overshadowed those things.
As soon you meet someone who plays the def meta game, your chances are nearly zero. He is great and ****ty at the same time xD.
He is my third main, I picked him up and I did well with him to a certain point where you need bit more offense but that's not given anymore since they "balanced" him.

Warlord had nearly no downsides, safe dodges, safe full block with counter attacks, hyperarmor + weird animation that helps using his heavies bit "safer", a parry punish that was ridiculous.
Now his parry punish move is still good but not op. Dodges aren't 100% safe anymore like most other heroes (especially as a heavy class).
People where spoiled with those advantages since the beginning - and now they put him in the last place of their tier lists, call him trash even if he is still better than 80% of the cast.



About Zerker, yup he is my number 1 since the beginning - and I can say pre-fix in 1.05 with his hyper armor (yes it is a fix not a buff, because it wasn't possible to make use of it in any way, therefor he lost his stamina reduction and we berserker feel this hard) he really was just a noob stomper.
After that fix it only got better, also it took a while to find the right rhythm with him (what is easier with most of the other heroes) - Kensei is similar, they made his mix ups better with a simple change.
Same for Raider - he was considered bottom tier since the beginning.
But in the right hands they are good heroes.

Tiers doesn't matter with the current meta - Because every hero is basically the "same", just an example:
If you have both players with the same skill lvl, all experienced the same way with every hero.
The strongest tool for every hero is Parry - so, those heroes who have the best parry punish are the "better heroes", because a better punish kills faster/needs less attempts/is more efficient.

The problem here is, to parry the enemy needs to attack, if both mainly play the meta game, this will turn into a staring contest or a feint contest.

The people started to build a way around this problem - and found moves they can easy abuse (shugoki run, raider run etc)
Tournaments are the best example for that.

But since Ubi balances or nerf such moves into the ground (shugokis run was really made useless - poor shugo)
They found other cheesy ways.

Player found some exploits to make attack faster and unparrieable - in other words, a way to outplay the current def meta.
And since this time chars with the best exploit are top in competitive/high lvl gameplay.

If the manage to fix def meta, and exploit meta (lets call it this way) and after that balance all heroes.
What will be left? The skill of the player - no cheese.

But I want to mention the current situation out of the Berserker perspective:
People say heroes like Berserker or kensei because it is harder to with with them, but it isn't impossible.

I still manage to beat really good people who can parry or block theoretically everything, because you can still outplay people with "trash heroes".
Same counts for people who abuse exploits, as soon they are not one hit kill exploits, you can manage it by adapting to those players play style.

If you don't know how to fight them, sure they beat you, but as soon as you know what to do, you can beat every hero with every hero, no matter what tier they are or if they abuse every fu-ck in the game.

Valk is my second main and I still manage to sweep people who claim that sweep is so easy to dodge that it is useless, most reactions are "wow wow wow"
It is funny if you bring back people to the ground, who think that they are superior, just because they play a certain hero that counts as "OP", can use exploits and parry.


(I am sorry for this BS I am talking but it is hard to get those feelings about all this crap into words, out of experience I can say that all those tier lists and "trash talking" of certain heroes is purely subjective)

Player skill has nothing to do with tier lists and you are naive if you think the game is balanced, or even close to it. It's always funny to me whenever I hear someone say that it is balanced and then a nerf happens to a character. So wouldn't that mean that character is worse than the rest of the cast if he was balanced before?

It also makes me wonder why people think someone who is S tier autowins someone who is C tier, and don't tell me people don't think that or else they wouldn't say stuff like "I still manage to beat really good people who can parry or block theoretically everything, because you can still outplay people with "trash heroes".

Tier lists are a ranking on who has the best kit, match ups, or potential. What it doesn't mean is PK will always beat kensei.

Devils-_-legacy
09-22-2017, 10:21 PM
Who makes these tier lists? you made onethat shinobi is bottom but hes the hero that im playing the best with atm so my tier list would put him somewere by the top (also one of the people that hate the idea of tier list because no 2 people play the same) and I must be naive then but how does player skill not become involved if there 2 war lords who determines who win it can't be kit based if they have duplicate gear and feats who would come down to skill (didn't want to comment just don't like the idea im naive)

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-22-2017, 10:26 PM
Who makes these tier lists? you made onethat shinobi is bottom but hes the hero that im playing the best with atm so my tier list would put him somewere by the top (also one of the people that hate the idea of tier list because no 2 people play the same) and I must be naive then but how does player skill not become involved if there 2 war lords who determines who win it can't be kit based if they have duplicate gear and feats who would come down to skill (didn't want to comment just don't like the idea im naive)

Because you aren't looking at the characters objectively. You are instead just taking your personal experience and going with that. You've acknowledged warlord was really strong compared to the rest of the cast. Guess what, you just made a tier list. He's not your best, shin is, but you already know that he (warlord) was better than pretty much everyone else.

Player skill has zero, I repeat zero to do with tier lists. They have to do with a characters tool kit, matchups, and potential.

Your warlord is example doesn't make any sense, we aren't talking about two people fighting each other. We are talking about the characters themselves.

Devils-_-legacy
09-22-2017, 10:40 PM
There isn't a tier list I don't know if I'm not wording it right but I'll try again I don't think there are tier list I'd say there are lists that suite people's play style (that changes person to person) better like I'm better with orchi then pk or Kensi then warlord only reason I use these hero's is because of my play style and I used them as an eg not because I consider them good but they have been bought up before, I always play assassin have mained as others but ultimately assassin is my play syle I rely on doge and deflect way more then most so My "tier list" would be based around that regardless of kit maybe I'm the only one that chosen this way

Devils-_-legacy
09-22-2017, 10:44 PM
I used warlord because you stated that the better kit would win it wouldn't there kit only works well if it suits your playstyle why I've been saying this threads pretty Bs because it's all based on personal opinion

S0Mi_xD
09-22-2017, 10:48 PM
Player skill has nothing to do with tier lists and you are naive if you think the game is balanced, or even close to it. It's always funny to me whenever I hear someone say that it is balanced and then a nerf happens to a character. So wouldn't that mean that character is worse than the rest of the cast if he was balanced before?

It also makes me wonder why people think someone who is S tier autowins someone who is C tier, and don't tell me people don't think that or else they wouldn't say stuff like "I still manage to beat really good people who can parry or block theoretically everything, because you can still outplay people with "trash heroes".

Tier lists are a ranking on who has the best kit, match ups, or potential. What it doesn't mean is PK will always beat kensei.

Umm... ok . . . now I don't know if you want to troll me, you where to lazy to read all my threads and just thought your part, or my English is so bad that if I say "people rely to much on tier list" you think the straight opposite.

I never said the game is balanced (if you would have read my threads and posts)
1. I say that defensive tools(like parry) are to strong (unbalanced), since 6 months.
2. I say that there are game breaking bugs/exploits (unbalanced)
3. I say that after fixing 1. and 2. characters need a balance (because some of them are unbalanced in both directions and also all heroes need to be adapted to the fixed game mechanics etc)

So, if I understand it right, you put me exactly into the place I am arguing against, by quoting my sentence that says "current tier list don't matter because they are based on opinions from single persons"

Also
"It is funny if you bring back people to the ground, who think that they are superior, just because they play a certain hero that counts as "OP" "
=
"It also makes me wonder why people think someone who is S tier autowins someone who is C tier, and don't tell me people don't think that"

In general - yes, tier list are a ranking on a heroes potential and match ups.
You stated exactly my opinion on tier lists GG.

But I am talking about For Honor tier lists, 99% of all for honor tier lists I saw, where made by single persons, who (most of the time) have experience with barley all heroes.
Most of the time I see subjective opinions, and not purely based on potential and match up tier lists.

Just take a look:
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1747644-Community-Event!-Tier-it-Up

Thats my opinion on how a tier list should come to life.

But since I am not sure if you just troll me or not, I think it is no use to answer any further.
I had some faith that you are reasonable and don't wanted to judge you by your forum name, but looks like the case is clear - good day sir.

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-22-2017, 10:56 PM
There isn't a tier list I don't know if I'm not wording it right but I'll try again I don't think there are tier list I'd say there are lists that suite people's play style (that changes person to person) better like I'm better with orchi then pk or Kensi then warlord only reason I use these hero's is because of my play style and I used them as an eg not because I consider them good but they have been bought up before, I always play assassin have mained as others but ultimately assassin is my play syle I rely on doge and deflect way more then most so My "tier list" would be based around that regardless of kit maybe I'm the only one that chosen this way

There you go again talking about your play style when I keep telling you its irrelevant.

Let me give you a few examples and maybe this will help you understand what potential, toolkit, and match ups mean.

I'm making a new fighting game it involves your grandma, the teenage bagboy at your local grocery store, and MMA champ Connor mcgregor. Now just assume this game is realistic, think the game is balanced? Now if you were to rank who you thought was the best who would be at the top, who would be in the middle, and who would be at the bottom?
Don't worry about who is behind the controller, we aren't talking about that. We are strictly focusing on the characters.

Here's another analogy. This involves your grandma, the teenage bagboy at your local grocery store, and MMA champ Connor mcgregor but this time it's real life and they all have to chop down a tree with 3 different axes. One is a top of the line axe that has a blade made out of diamonds and is green. One axe is just your regular every day hatchet, this one is red. The last is a rusted axe with no handle and this one is blue.

We are going to line up our 3 contestants next to trees of equal size and see who can chop down the tree the quickest. We are going to give granny the green axe, give the bagboy the red axe, and Connor the blue axe. Connor ends up winning, the bagboy being in second place, and granny dead last. Now who had the best axe? Who had the worst axe? Did the person using the axe change who had the best axe or the worst axe?

If this still doesn't help you understand what a tier list is then I cant do anything for you, friend.

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-22-2017, 11:06 PM
Not going to go in to your eg theres no point And once again your making an assumption there a massive gap between all the heros theres really not theres a few that underpreform i can only think of 2 the rest od say are balanced and I know what a tier list is but if you were a ubi soft saying these are the tiers I might belive you but as your some who probably has equal experience to me saying these are the tiers it's subjective to who's making it

When you realize which axe was the best you'll understand what a tier list is, friend.

Devils-_-legacy
09-22-2017, 11:07 PM
I'm not going to go into your example I don't have the energy I personal see 2 hero's that need a buff the rest I'd say is balanced ik what a tier list but as you are not a ubi rep your someone who has equal experience not a dev with the statics (a player) using your opinion to fabricate this tier list from your opinion that's what I've been trying to say

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-22-2017, 11:08 PM
Umm... ok . . . now I don't know if you want to troll me, you where to lazy to read all my threads and just thought your part, or my English is so bad that if I say "people rely to much on tier list" you think the straight opposite.

I never said the game is balanced (if you would have read my threads and posts)
1. I say that defensive tools(like parry) are to strong (unbalanced), since 6 months.
2. I say that there are game breaking bugs/exploits (unbalanced)
3. I say that after fixing 1. and 2. characters need a balance (because some of them are unbalanced in both directions and also all heroes need to be adapted to the fixed game mechanics etc)

So, if I understand it right, you put me exactly into the place I am arguing against, by quoting my sentence that says "current tier list don't matter because they are based on opinions from single persons"

Also
"It is funny if you bring back people to the ground, who think that they are superior, just because they play a certain hero that counts as "OP" "
=
"It also makes me wonder why people think someone who is S tier autowins someone who is C tier, and don't tell me people don't think that"

In general - yes, tier list are a ranking on a heroes potential and match ups.
You stated exactly my opinion on tier lists GG.

But I am talking about For Honor tier lists, 99% of all for honor tier lists I saw, where made by single persons, who (most of the time) have experience with barley all heroes.
Most of the time I see subjective opinions, and not purely based on potential and match up tier lists.

Just take a look:
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1747644-Community-Event!-Tier-it-Up

Thats my opinion on how a tier list should come to life.

But since I am not sure if you just troll me or not, I think it is no use to answer any further.
I had some faith that you are reasonable and don't wanted to judge you by your forum name, but looks like the case is clear - good day sir.

Thats the problem though, you are basing the definition of tierlists on individuals instead of the community. Either way it seems you don't want to continue this conversation either because I'm gay, because I'm Asian, or maybe it's both. Good day to you.

Devils-_-legacy
09-22-2017, 11:09 PM
Rewrote it deleted it self

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-22-2017, 11:11 PM
I used warlord because you stated that the better kit would win it wouldn't there kit only works well if it suits your playstyle why I've been saying this threads pretty Bs because it's all based on personal opinion

Except I didn't say the betterkit would win, in fact I've never ever brought up who would win when talking about tierlists. Let me repeat myself for the billionth time since you aren't getting it. Tierlists are based on toolkit, matchups, and potential. They do not determine the outcome of a fight. They are simply a way to estimate the power level of a character.

S0Mi_xD
09-22-2017, 11:19 PM
Thats the problem though, you are basing the definition of tierlists on individuals instead of the community. Either way it seems you don't want to continue this conversation either because I'm gay, because I'm Asian, or maybe it's both. Good day to you.

Devils-_-legacy . . . it's no use - he is a troll or maybe stuck in Opposite Day like in Groundhog Day

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-22-2017, 11:23 PM
Devils-_-legacy . . . it's no use - he is a troll or maybe stuck in Opposite Day like in Groundhog Day

I'll try and ask you somi, try reading the examples I gave to devil. Which axe do you think was the best?

Devils-_-legacy
09-22-2017, 11:23 PM
That is the way it's comming across but I got the wrong thread no you stated at high level play there's only 2 viable hero's has anyone got this tier list because everytime I ask I never get a straight awnser from people that say there are tiersome and at least somi understands me I'm sorry your not g4y normally I'm better at explaining but the mobile version seems to delete my posts I'm scrambling to read write them posted this one 3 times already🙃

Devils-_-legacy
09-22-2017, 11:32 PM
And don't get personal g4y lol I can follow your logic I just find it flawed

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-22-2017, 11:32 PM
That is the way it's comming across but I got the wrong thread no you stated at high level play there's only 2 viable hero's has anyone got this tier list because everytime I ask I never get a straight awnser from people that say there are tiersome and at least somi understands me I'm sorry your not g4y normally I'm better at explaining but the mobile version seems to delete my posts I'm scrambling to read write them posted this one 3 times already🙃

What have I said that is trolling? I've given you examples and arguments to what tierlists are. What you are doing is telling me who you are good with and that's somehow suppose to somehow combat who is objectivey in a better and worse spot.

You also seem to think tierlists are just set in stone where we can just reference it and say "oh look pk is S tier." No that's not it either. It's looking at the community and seeing what they are saying based on them giving as close to an objective opinion as possible based on toolkit, matchups, and potential. You telling me you are the best with shin is not you trying to give a close to objective opinion, you are just telling me who you are good with and it's absolutely irrelevant.

Like I said just answer this question and you'll understand what a tierlist is. Which was the best axe?

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-22-2017, 11:33 PM
And don't get personal g4y lol I can follow your logic I just find it flawed

I'm not taking it personal, he's the one who brought up my name/identity. He seems to have the problem, not me.

Devils-_-legacy
09-22-2017, 11:50 PM
You also seem to think tierlists are just set in stone where we can just reference it and say "oh look pk is S tier." No that's not it this is what I've been trying to say so I'll use you

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-22-2017, 11:52 PM
Ok But u put my I'd lol ik what the best ax was diamond not guna be a rusty one plese stop I'm not a invalid I may find English troubling to phrase. But that my whole point was that the tier lists aren't set in stone hero's could go up and down because it's people that make these tiers no for honor and me with my shinobi is to do with his teleport deflect as I find it the strong plus very fast but also subjective as it's interuptable BTW never mentioned you as atroll I ment sounds like your saying best kit wins at least how it's comming across

You nailed it friend. The diamond axe was the best. It didn't matter who was using it but it was the best just based on the characteristics of it alone. Now all you have to do is realize that that's what a tierlist is, just looking at the characters (axe) themselves and not focusing on the player. You are right that everyone's tierlist would be all over the place if it was the way you are describing it, valk and warden would be S tier for me, but that's not what a tierlist is and that's not what it means.

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-22-2017, 11:53 PM
You also seem to think tierlists are just set in stone where we can just reference it and say "oh look pk is S tier." No that's not it this is what I've been trying to say so I'll use you

I mean you think that's what's people who talk about tier lists think.

Devils-_-legacy
09-22-2017, 11:57 PM
No was just using it to show its subjective to which you will argue it's not and I'll argue that with out statics and facts who could you make a tierlists to which you'll say about potential strength and we will go round and round till theyou lock the thread most likely

InebriatedPalm
09-22-2017, 11:57 PM
Unless Ubisoft releases an official tier list they've created based on their findings then any other tier list is subject to possible bias and backed only by stats and information provided on each heroes kits and attacks (such as how many MS it takes for one attack to swing). Without the "Data" that Ubisoft claims they have on how each hero is performing on a daily basis there's no grounds to which we can rightfully say "This Is in fact the tiers where these heroes belong!"

That's why I don't like tier lists. It always seems like it's made for the sole purpose of discouraging people from playing the characters they might actually be good with because "Why would I play a low tier character that look fun and I might enjoy when I can play these high tier ones and be somewhat decent from the go?

S0Mi_xD
09-22-2017, 11:57 PM
I'm not taking it personal, he's the one who brought up my name/identity. He seems to have the problem, not me.

If you would understand the context of the post where I mentioned your name, there wouldn't be a need for this "oh are you against gays, asians etc"

But I can explain it to you with simple words.

I say: You confuse me - I am not sure if you are a troll or not, BECAUSE you twist the message of my posts multiple times.
And i noticed your name, but at first I thought "ok, it's just a name - behind this name, eventually still sits a normal person" (what isn't the case 99% of the time because it is the internet)
Most of the time such names are used by trolls (people who intentionally provoke and hoax people).

And since it looks like you (after many attempts of explaining myself - even agreeing with you, that a tier list needs to be an objective thing based on pure hero potential) your are still twisting my words I do count your forum name/identity to the 99% instead of the 1%. Not because I hate gays (what isn't the case, because I have good friends who are Bi or gay), or hate asians (because I was born on the asian continent myself), or boys or 69.

I don't have a problem with your identity/name, it is only a part of the evidence, for me, that you are (edit:) sorry, seem to me like a troll.

Devils-_-legacy
09-23-2017, 12:01 AM
Seaners95 I wish u had said this earlier I decently couldn't write it better my self

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 12:01 AM
No was just using it to show its subjective to which you will argue it's not and I'll argue that with out statics and facts who could you make a tierlists to which you'll say about potential strength and we will go round and round till theyou lock the thread most likely

Lol okay there's no point, you can only lead a horse to water but cannot make them drink it. For the record I've never said they were completely objective, I'm saying get as close to possible as you can and not to use personal anecdotes and to leave out player skill. For some reason this seems to be a problem for you.

S0Mi_xD
09-23-2017, 12:02 AM
I mean you think that's what's people who talk about tier lists think.

To bad that reality looks like this - most people think that tier lists are set in stone, especially who are not that experienced.

I see them so many times, and 99% of them are exactly what they look like - just personal experience (which differs from person to person)

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 12:05 AM
Unless Ubisoft releases an official tier list they've created based on their findings then any other tier list is subject to possible bias and backed only by stats and information provided on each heroes kits and attacks (such as how many MS it takes for one attack to swing). Without the "Data" that Ubisoft claims they have on how each hero is performing on a daily basis there's no grounds to which we can rightfully say "This Is in fact the tiers where these heroes belong!"

That's why I don't like tier lists. It always seems like it's made for the sole purpose of discouraging people from playing the characters they might actually be good with because "Why would I play a low tier character that look fun and I might enjoy when I can play these high tier ones and be somewhat decent from the go?

Or it can go the other way and someone can say "I want to avoid the top tier because I want to show I can win without them." You are making it sound like people who talk about tiers are saying its objective fact. It's simply a way for someone to show where there estimations are on a characters toolkit, matchups, and potential. Should I just have this be a footnote to every post I write since you and devil can't seem to grasp this?

Devils-_-legacy
09-23-2017, 12:07 AM
Once again we will agree to disagree g4y

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 12:09 AM
If you would understand the context of the post where I mentioned your name, there wouldn't be a need for this "oh are you against gays, asians etc"

But I can explain it to you with simple words.

I say: You confuse me - I am not sure if you are a troll or not, BECAUSE you twist the message of my posts multiple times.
And i noticed your name, but at first I thought "ok, it's just a name - behind this name, eventually still sits a normal person" (what isn't the case 99% of the time because it is the internet)
Most of the time such names are used by trolls (people who intentionally provoke and hoax people).

And since it looks like you (after many attempts of explaining myself - even agreeing with you, that a tier list needs to be an objective thing based on pure hero potential) your are still twisting my words I do count your forum name/identity to the 99% instead of the 1%. Not because I hate gays (what isn't the case, because I have good friends who are Bi or gay), or hate asians (because I was born on the asian continent myself), or boys or 69.

I don't have a problem with your identity/name, it is only a part of the evidence, for me, that you are (edit:) sorry, seem to me like a troll.

Didnt twist your message, you were the one who brought up your personal skill, you using a "trash tier" character, and you winning with said character and I said it has absolutely no relevance to the definition of a tier list and it also isn't a counter argument to what one is.

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 12:12 AM
Once again we will agree to disagree g4y

Either you believe every character is balanced exactly the same (which would be ridiculous especially since nerfs and buffs happen left and right) or you believe it isn't. If you believe it isn't then you believe in tiers. Perhaps you hate the phrasing or structure but if you think prenerf warlord is stronger than conqueror then you believe in tierlists.

InebriatedPalm
09-23-2017, 12:17 AM
[QUOTE=G4y_aZn_BoY69;12948443It's simply a way for someone to show where there estimations are on a characters toolkit, matchups, and potential.[/QUOTE]

Which are strictly opinion. One hero's toolkit and move-set may seem more powerful to them than it might to another. Everyone's got their own tier list they go off of whenever they get on to play based on how long they've been playing and it changes constantly and from person to person because it's all about who you're good with and who you struggle with.

So if it's simply a way to show estimations on each hero and who they might and might not struggle with based on what you think, then why post it at all?

Devils-_-legacy
09-23-2017, 12:20 AM
My argument was its subjective and changes from person to person you said it wasn't that's were I was getting confused you said it's estimates were do you get the estimate(this is were I'm getting confused how would you even rate them) you've never touched on it just got annoyed and tried to involve flawed egs to prove your case and 2 people have disagree with you that wasnt mebut you've explained the tier list but not any facts thats kinda what i rely on specialy on this game were people have bought up fake statics about Pks,conquer ect (not saying you was common in s1)

Devils-_-legacy
09-23-2017, 12:25 AM
The way you worded it g4y I wouldn't call it a tier list as the conquer is stonger against certain hero's then others

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 12:26 AM
The way you worded it g4y I wouldn't call it a tier list as the conquer is stonger against certain hero's then others

Which is why I say it's based on toolkit, MATCHUPS, and potential.

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 12:28 AM
Which are strictly opinion. One hero's toolkit and move-set may seem more powerful to them than it might to another. Everyone's got their own tier list they go off of whenever they get on to play based on how long they've been playing and it changes constantly and from person to person because it's all about who you're good with and who you struggle with.

So if it's simply a way to show estimations on each hero and who they might and might not struggle with based on what you think, then why post it at all?

Which is why I say you have to look at as objectively as possible. Good point, why do you post?

Devils-_-legacy
09-23-2017, 12:35 AM
You still don't understand me but I finally understand your point of view and I see what your getting at but I don't see who or how you could get these figures like toolkit 10/10 match ups 10/10 and potential 10/10 who assigns them and if someone disagree who say what one is right I would love ubi to release there finding because they might have a real tier list based on real data not your personal experiance but in till they do your just assigning random numbers from your point of view least that how I'm seeing it (ik your not doing the tierlists but I think I finally can explain it clear lol)

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 12:36 AM
My argument was its subjective and changes from person to person you said it wasn't that's were I was getting confused you said it's estimates were do you get the estimate(this is were I'm getting confused how would you even rate them) you've never touched on it just got annoyed and tried to involve flawed egs to prove your case and 2 people have disagree with you that wasnt mebut you've explained the tier list but not any facts thats kinda what i rely on specialy on this game were people have bought up fake statics about Pks,conquer ect (not saying you was common in s1)

By either playing all the characters or from fighting them. Once you get enough experience you can get a good idea on who is stronger than others. Also look at how others peoples list are structured, Read into their reasoning.

If you think someone should be buffed you believe in tiers

If you think someone should be nerfed you believe in tiers

S (char who should be nerfed)
A (char is good where they are)
B (char who should be buffed)

When you are saying it changes from person to person you aren't looking at it from an objective stand point. You even said to you shin is the best. Tier lists aren't about who you are personally best with, it's about what character has the bes........

Devils-_-legacy
09-23-2017, 12:37 AM
And it's impossible to be impartial

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 12:41 AM
You still don't understand me but I finally understand your point of view and I see what your getting at but I don't see who or how you could get these figures like toolkit 10/10 match ups 10/10 and potential 10/10 who assigns them and if someone disagree who say what one is right I would love ubi to release there finding because they might have a real tier list based on real data not your personal experiance but in till they do your just assigning random numbers from your point of view least that how I'm seeing it (ik your not doing the tierlists but I think I finally can explain it clear lol)

Which is why there is constant debate about tiers and where characters are placed. You're absolutely right that it's subjective but like I said you are suppose to try and do your absolute best to be objective. If I was say personally weak against zerk and strong against pk I wouldn't put zerk at the top and pk at the bottom. What I would do is look at what they have, who they are strong against, and what's the most someone can get out of that character.

Even if Ubi releases the data it wouldn't really prove who the strongest characters or weakest are as a whole. Noob stompers are going to have good records since the majority of the playerbase isn't really that good but that same character will do terrible in high levels of play.

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 12:42 AM
And it's impossible to be impartial

What do you mean? To the game being balanced and the game not being balanced?

InebriatedPalm
09-23-2017, 12:48 AM
Which is why I say you have to look at as objectively as possible. Good point, why do you post?

As it's already been mentioned it is literally impossible to not be impartial when a fan of the game is creating a tier system based on their experience.

You might struggle with one hero and think they need a nerf but someone else might have no issue with that hero at all and think they're in need of a buff.

Without Concrete data, provided strictly from Ubisoft, that's been collected over the course of the three seasons displaying the statistics of each individual hero and how well they perform in each game mode, there is absolutely no way you can create any kind of tier list that can be considered objective.

You said yourself at the beginning of this post that "Currently Centurion is the best in 1v1". But that's not even remotely true for some players and certainly not absolute for me. Sure I struggle with them a bit but they're not unbeatable.

that's why tier lists are pointless unless they're provided by the devs. Because it's your tier list, not mine, not ubisoft's and not anyone elses. By definition, that is an opinion based tier list which is considered biased. Doesn't matter how objective you think you are or tried to be.

Devils-_-legacy
09-23-2017, 12:48 AM
For a player not a dev there paid to be impartial but a player will always favour certain hero's so it's almost impossible to not be biased I have 6 hero's rep 6 and my shin rep 12 ik ill prefer 2 of them over the rest

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 12:53 AM
As it's already been mentioned it is literally impossible to not be impartial when a fan of the game is creating a tier system based on their experience.

You might struggle with one hero and think they need a nerf but someone else might have no issue with that hero at all and think they're in need of a buff.

Without Concrete data, provided strictly from Ubisoft, that's been collected over the course of the three seasons displaying the statistics of each individual hero and how well they perform in each game mode, there is absolutely no way you can create any kind of tier list that can be considered objective.

You said yourself at the beginning of this post that "Currently Centurion is the best in 1v1". But that's not even remotely true for some players and certainly not absolute for me. Sure I struggle with them a bit but they're not unbeatable.

that's why tier lists are pointless unless they're provided by the devs. Because it's your tier list, not mine, not ubisoft's and not anyone elses. By definition, that is an opinion based tier list which is considered biased. Doesn't matter how objective you think you are or tried to be.

What do you think tierlists mean?

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 12:54 AM
For a player not a dev there paid to be impartial but a player will always favour certain hero's so it's almost impossible to not be biased I have 6 hero's rep 6 and my shin rep 12 ik ill prefer 2 of them over the rest

This is absolutely exhausting...... I tap out. I can only explain this simple concept so many times.

InebriatedPalm
09-23-2017, 01:03 AM
What do you think tierlists mean?

Nice try but don't change the subject.

Any form of ranking system is based on statistics, ratings, ranking, comparisons, performance averages, etc. When you decide to make a list of who is best and worst, hard data is needed to make an objective list.

You're using personal experience and references made from other players. Those are not the same thing.

Ubisoft has the data, let them put it together and show us who's top and bottom tier.

Now if you want to give us your opinion on who you think is trash and who isn't, then we'll be happy to hear it and discuss it in a friendly and civil manner. But don't go calling it some tier list representing the official stance on the ranking of heroes in game.

Devils-_-legacy
09-23-2017, 01:09 AM
I'm glad if you won't touch on the parts I've asked there's little point acting like I'm not understanding I just want to know how you got these tiers plz don't say your impartial you said the wl nurf was a bit far when they havnt done anything that wasn't justified and had the fact (raw date) to do it I'm just glad people are agreeing with me

Devils-_-legacy
09-23-2017, 01:11 AM
I was guna write more but seaners done it perfect

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 01:12 AM
Nice try but don't change the subject.

Any form of ranking system is based on statistics, ratings, ranking, comparisons, performance averages, etc. When you decide to make a list of who is best and worst, hard data is needed to make an objective list.

You're using personal experience and references made from other players. Those are not the same thing.

Ubisoft has the data, let them put it together and show us who's top and bottom tier.

Now if you want to give us your opinion on who you think is trash and who isn't, then we'll be happy to hear it and discuss it in a friendly and civil manner. But don't go calling it some tier list representing the official stance on the ranking of heroes in game.

Lol how is a me asking what you think a tierlist is changing the subject when the subject is tier lists?

Did I say gladiator is officially the best? Did I frame it as tier lists being official?

My personal experiences, people with the experience of High levels of play, and what is around for high levels of play is what I use to determine my tierlist

Let me rephrase my original answer then

People who know how to play the game at high levels of play generally say Gladiator and Pk are the strongest at duels (S tier)

Edit:Had to edit the post so its choppy as hell in the original, sorry about that got distracted by my dog.

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 01:13 AM
I'm glad if you won't touch on the parts I've asked there's little point acting like I'm not understanding I just want to know how you got these tiers plz don't say your impartial you said the wl nurf was a bit far when they havnt done anything that wasn't justified and had the fact (raw date) to do it I'm just glad people are agreeing with me

To be honest if I've not touched on some of your points some of your sentences seem to blend together and I get confused as to what you are saying. I realize english isn't your main language and thats not me knocking you for it but thats the reason.

InebriatedPalm
09-23-2017, 01:29 AM
Lol how is a me asking what you think a tierlist is changing the subject when the subject is tier lists?

Did I say gladiator is officially the best? Did I frame it as tier lists being official?

My personal experiences, people with the experience of High levels of play, and what is around for high levels of play is what I use to determine my tierlist

Let me rephrase my original answer then

People who know how to play the game at high levels of play generally say Gladiator and Pk are the strongest at duels (S tier)

Edit:Had to edit the post so its choppy as hell in the original, sorry about that got distracted by my dog.

That's what's wrong though, you're basing a tier list off of any specific level of gameplay. Data covers the broad spectrum of gameplay, not just low, mid, or high. And it's not a valid format because I know there are high level players who struggle with certain heroes that mid-level players have no issue taking out. It's based on skill; how well you know your kit, your move set, your animations, your mix ups, etc and how well you know your oponents, and how well you implement your strategy.

To follow up with that, you can claim to have these findings at high levels of play, but that's just as likely as me claiming that i'm a diamond level player with a 3.00 K/D. Not very likely.

You can't base a list representing the official and overall standing of a character based on what you've witnessed alone in your own gameplay and not provide any data to back anything you say up.

Furthermore, if you indeed are a high level player and you and all the high level players think Gladiator and PK are strongest in duels, then I have to say (as respectfully as I can imply any meaning anywhere) you're full of ****, because that's just not true for everyone. If you had a chart posting the statistics on how well PK and gladiator perform in duels on a regular basis, then I might believe you, but otherwise it's word of mouth and, once again an opinion.

Devils-_-legacy
09-23-2017, 01:33 AM
Okay ive tried hard this time (People who know how to play the game at high levels of play generally say Gladiator and Pk are the strongest at duels (S tier)) see this were I disagree who says this there not terrible but I couldn't use a pk to save my life. (My personal experiences, people with the experience of High levels of play, and what is around for high levels of play is what I use to determine my tierlist) ok And what do you call high level play i havnt died in 8 games would i be classed as high level or i Have a good k/d what makes these people more experienced to make these assumptions then me or you? Thats why I I can't agree with you I don't have enough info

Devils-_-legacy
09-23-2017, 01:35 AM
Not saying I have a good kd or anything just an eg

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 01:37 AM
That's what's wrong though, you're basing a tier list off of any specific level of gameplay. Data covers the broad spectrum of gameplay, not just low, mid, or high. And it's not a valid format because I know there are high level players who struggle with certain heroes that mid-level players have no issue taking out. It's based on skill; how well you know your kit, your move set, your animations, your mix ups, etc and how well you know your oponents, and how well you implement your strategy.

To follow up with that, you can claim to have these findings at high levels of play, but that's just as likely as me claiming that i'm a diamond level player with a 3.00 K/D. Not very likely.

You can't base a list representing the official and overall standing of a character based on what you've witnessed alone in your own gameplay and not provide any data to back anything you say up.

Furthermore, if you indeed are a high level player and you and all the high level players think Gladiator and PK are strongest in duels, then I have to say (as respectfully as I can imply any meaning anywhere) you're full of ****, because that's just not true for everyone. If you had a chart posting the statistics on how well PK and gladiator perform in duels on a regular basis, then I might believe you, but otherwise it's word of mouth and, once again an opinion.

Take yourself to the competitive reddit forums or listen to high level players and take it up with them. You wanted my opinion and I gave it along with a general idea of what people think on the competitive side of this game. You don't need to get so upset over my opinion and the opinion of high level players.

InebriatedPalm
09-23-2017, 01:43 AM
Take yourself to the competitive reddit forums or listen to high level players and take it up with them. You wanted my opinion and I gave it along with a general idea of what people think on the competitive side of this game. You don't need to get so upset over my opinion and the opinion of high level players.

No one is upset here, we're simply trying to explain to you why we think Tier lists are counter productive without Ubisoft's data.

I don't need to take anything up with anyone other than myself. I know at the end of the day that i'm responsible for how well I do in every fight. Maybe attacked a little too much, or turtled more than I should have, wasn't paying attention to this or that yadda yadda yadda.

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 01:45 AM
Okay ive tried hard this time (People who know how to play the game at high levels of play generally say Gladiator and Pk are the strongest at duels (S tier)) see this were I disagree who says this there not terrible but I couldn't use a pk to save my life. (My personal experiences, people with the experience of High levels of play, and what is around for high levels of play is what I use to determine my tierlist) ok And what do you call high level play i havnt died in 8 games would i be classed as high level or i Have a good k/d what makes these people more experienced to make these assumptions then me or you? Thats why I I can't agree with you I don't have enough info

I've discussed this enough, go to the reddit competitive forums and look into the opinions of high level players. I gave my opinion and the opinion of players that are on the better end of the spectrum, take it up with them because I've had enough of explaining that just because you are personally good/bad with a character doesnt determine how good they are as a whole. Good day devil, thank you for being pleasant and not mentioning my race or sexual orientation.

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 01:47 AM
No one is upset here, we're simply trying to explain to you why we think Tier lists are counter productive without Ubisoft's data.

I don't need to take anything up with anyone other than myself. I know at the end of the day that i'm responsible for how well I do in every fight. Maybe attacked a little too much, or turtled more than I should have, wasn't paying attention to this or that yadda yadda yadda.

Nah you were getting pretty aggressive with that last post. Like I said if you want the opinion of people who are good at the game you can take a look, it's not hard to find.

Devils-_-legacy
09-23-2017, 02:00 AM
I'm just wondering who is high level player tho got a name psn I'd or just random people on fourms

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 02:08 AM
I'm just wondering who is high level player tho got a name psn I'd or just random people on fourms

Just go to the competitive reddit. While your at it look up tier lists, wanna guess who is consistently at the top?

InebriatedPalm
09-23-2017, 02:16 AM
Nah you were getting pretty aggressive with that last post. Like I said if you want the opinion of people who are good at the game you can take a look, it's not hard to find.

I'm sorry if you perceive the tone of my statements as aggressive, I know my writing style can be perceived that way from time to time.

But now i'm afraid we've ventured quite off topic at this point. So in the spirit of civil debate i'll pose a new question to you. Who is your go to in a duel and why?

Mine is the Berserker. I love his mix up potential and the hyperarmor is a nice asset to have for baiting other players. Strategy I like to use is to throw out a move that's just ever so subtly out of range or that appears to be noobish (throwing out a light attack) and then in that split second when my opponent tries to punish I follow up with a top heavy. It's a trade in damage but it usually pays off very well.

InebriatedPalm
09-23-2017, 02:25 AM
Dominon kills btw

Preach it. But it's really the only game mode where I can quickly level up new heroes unfortunately.

Devils-_-legacy
09-23-2017, 02:28 AM
I cant stand duel, doesnt it get boring specially if your against a turtle that just stands still

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 02:29 AM
We aren't talking about dominion for one devil and two if your only going by kills as I mentioned before that goes by total kills which doesn't equal skill.

Devils-_-legacy
09-23-2017, 02:32 AM
How does kills not require skill and I don't know the top duelist tho i do for dominon so i put it what's your I'd?

InebriatedPalm
09-23-2017, 02:32 AM
I cant stand duel, doesnt it get boring specially if your against a turtle that just stands still

Meh, not always. I like a good duel here and there. Elimination is my favorite really, just a shame not as many people play it anymore.

I think tournament duels are more fun just because there's more at stake. But the most common type of duel I go for is in a custom game with my buddies. We have our own little tourneys to determine who our overall best fighter is in our group and a side tourney for me and a guy who both play Berserker. (Currently title holder for Better Berserker, gonna have to defend my title this weekend :cool: )

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 02:35 AM
How does kills not require skill and I don't know the top duelist tho i do for dominon so i put it what's your I'd?

It goes by total kills meaning a guy who plays longer is going to have more than a guy who can only play on weekends. That doesn't mean he's more skilled.

Devils-_-legacy
09-23-2017, 02:40 AM
G4y what's your gamer tag starting to get curious how skilled you are?

Devils-_-legacy
09-23-2017, 02:43 AM
I used to love elimination but I guess I have to stick to my strengths I'm definitely a dominon player by the amount of time I've sank in

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 02:47 AM
G4y what's your gamer tag starting to get curious how skilled you are?

GAY_AZN_BOY_69

It's not going to show much on fht , I can't get into the details but if your really curious just add me and I can show you my skill

Devils-_-legacy
09-23-2017, 02:54 AM
No offense but wow you serious is that even your main account im guessing no right?

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 02:59 AM
No offense but wow you serious is that even your main account im guessing no right?

Exactly why I said I can't get into the details just add me if you are that curious

Devils-_-legacy
09-23-2017, 03:16 AM
Lol I wish I had seen that earlier you defo shouldn't be making any tier list😁

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 03:19 AM
Lol I wish I had seen that earlier you defo shouldn't be making any tier list😁

You aren't too good at listening, which I could have gathered from this entire conversation. How about you add me and you can find out how good I am.

Devils-_-legacy
09-23-2017, 03:26 AM
Don't get annoyed got ask some high level players on redit what they think😂

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 03:28 AM
Don't get annoyed got ask some high level players on redit what they think😂

Literally made no sense. If you are afraid to fight me then no big deal, I get that the mystery of not actually knowing my real stats can be a bit jarring.

Devils-_-legacy
09-23-2017, 03:40 AM
So terrified specially as your high level game play is no match for a poor causal 😂

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 03:46 AM
So terrified specially as your high level game play is no match for a poor causal 😂

Clearly, or else you would have just added me.

Devils-_-legacy
09-23-2017, 03:48 AM
It's 4am I need sleep not everything is oriented around you mate 😂 good night tho

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 03:50 AM
It's 4am I need sleep not everything is oriented around you mate 😂 good night tho

Np I'll add you and when you are on I'll send you an invite. Let's see if you'll actually accept or chicken out.

Devils-_-legacy
09-23-2017, 03:56 AM
Ok but i will say u should add somi he's a decent player I've been against him quite a lot he will get u used to zerkers quick but I'm off to sleep

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-23-2017, 04:03 AM
Ok but i will say u should add somi he's a decent player I've been against him quite a lot he will get u used to zerkers quick but I'm off to sleep

Thats an odd change of tone, why so meek now after all that trash talk? Ill see you online then, later.

Pinklander_Matt
09-23-2017, 07:02 AM
Other than the OP Centurion, which hero is considered to be the 'best' or most geared specifically for 1v1 Duels / Tourneys?

D

think to me than i'm crazy, but shinobi and LB are the best for duel.

-shinobi, good shinobi, with high ability of parry, can fight like a berseker, but he want stay away from you, and charge range heavy, he can for all the match.
-LB is patience,a good LB use the block to start the shove tattics, or simply parry.. he no need to attack, just few light , and some heavy when he has a good distance so he can evade the GB

BigSpence13
09-25-2017, 07:06 PM
Wow , look what I Started...LOL

Was not going for who wins tourneys...that is based on the top end players skills more than the Hero selected...Was going more for.

1. Which Heroes are being used most frequently in 1v1, (by the masses) (Cent being taken out of the equation)
2. With a Skills being equal Scenario...which Heroes have the advantage in 1v1. (Cent being taken out of the equation again)


So is the Answer stlll Glad and PK?

D

G4y_aZn_BoY420
09-25-2017, 07:22 PM
Wow , look what I Started...LOL

Was not going for who wins tourneys...that is based on the top end players skills more than the Hero selected...Was going more for.

1. Which Heroes are being used most frequently in 1v1, (by the masses) (Cent being taken out of the equation)
2. With a Skills being equal Scenario...which Heroes have the advantage in 1v1. (Cent being taken out of the equation again)


So is the Answer stlll Glad and PK?

D

Bingo. You could have stuck to the first page to get your answer, it's amazing that people at the top level acknowledge tier lists but you'll always hear people on the bottom half about how it's not about the character but the player when that's not the argument.

Aarpian
09-26-2017, 03:32 PM
Wow , look what I Started...LOL

Was not going for who wins tourneys...that is based on the top end players skills more than the Hero selected...Was going more for.

1. Which Heroes are being used most frequently in 1v1, (by the masses) (Cent being taken out of the equation)
2. With a Skills being equal Scenario...which Heroes have the advantage in 1v1. (Cent being taken out of the equation again)


So is the Answer stlll Glad and PK?

D

Glad and PK would be the answer even if you included Centurion.

DrinkinMyStella
09-26-2017, 05:09 PM
You mean WL and Pk. Of course gladiator hadn't won all the tournaments before he just came out a month ago, can't really discredit him for not winning tournaments he wasn't around for. The only tourney I can think of that warden won was the ESL PS4 but no others come to mind. WL is was hit very hard with the last set of nerfs, he lost the number 1 spot.

"Who says Gladi and PK are best 1v1 atm? I beat Gladiators and other PK's pretty consistently" this is my favorite part about your post since you say this as a PK. Of course one of the best characters in the game can beat the other best character in the game and a mirror match.

^^^ lol true, PK probably has the easiest kit to learn with the best outcome just spam lights and zones and go for the GB every now and then, I see more and more very low level players using PK and destroying with PK.