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Luftcaca
08-26-2004, 11:28 AM
ok everyone
Grab a Mig 3 (or a Mig 3UD)

Fight a bunch of Stukas and/or P-36

tell me what you noticed

(yes, there is something wrong)

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

wants flyable:

early 110's
IL-10
Pe-3

Luftcaca
08-26-2004, 11:28 AM
ok everyone
Grab a Mig 3 (or a Mig 3UD)

Fight a bunch of Stukas and/or P-36

tell me what you noticed

(yes, there is something wrong)

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

wants flyable:

early 110's
IL-10
Pe-3

KaRaYa-X
08-26-2004, 11:49 AM
You mean the ShKaS MGs lighting up the Stukas and P36s as if they are made out of cotton wool? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

--= flying online as JG52<Karaya-X =--

Luftcaca
08-26-2004, 12:21 PM
yeppers Karaya
We all know the Mig was supposedely underarmed
The fact that the AM-35A Mikulin could not have a cannon throught it like the Klimov was a big minus for russian standards, so they thought it was underarmed thats why the pilots never really liked it (plus it was unstable)

AND

the Stuka was a rough plane that could take much and still making it back home, never read anywhere that it could very easily catch on fire (like the SB2 for instance)

BUT still
I can take down 8 Ju87 with a Mig3 and have ammo left
and they all go down on fire, most of the time fire catches in the wing roots.
Wheres the prob then? what is not well modelled? The Stuka or the ShKAS? Maybe both, cuz I also noticed that the Stukas were always catching on fire when Im flying Hurri MkII Field modif, and there are no ShKAS on that plane (ShVAK and UBS), so we know its AT LEAST the Stuka's DM and maybe also the ShKAS itself is overmodelled.

to conclude, theres also something terribly wrong with the P-36.
its really a flying lighter, literraly, no matter what gun you use on it
Add it to the P-39 and the P-63, while I cant even damage a Lagg3 with light German MG's...

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

wants flyable:

early 110's
IL-10
Pe-3

KaRaYa-X
08-26-2004, 01:12 PM
You might want to try the following Luftcaca:

Take any Spitfire-C (with 4x.303 - not 2.50CAL) against any FW190 (pick "friendly" so he wont jink you)

Get behind the FW190 and fire ONLY with the 4x.303 ---- result: the 190 lights on fire after about 1-2sec of fire!! Isn't that even more insane!?
You will get the same with every other small MG (except the MG17 which is just plain USELESS compared to all the .303s/.30s/ShKaS/...)


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

--= flying online as JG52<Karaya-X =--

XyZspineZyX
08-26-2004, 03:47 PM
And yet, we don't dare use the "B" word.

JG53Frankyboy
08-26-2004, 04:02 PM
perhaps because the MG17 have no incendary rounds loaded in FB !
.303 , SchKas have .

JG53Frankyboy
08-26-2004, 04:06 PM
if these datas from IL2 are still correct

T - Tracer bullet
AP - Armor-Piercing bullet
APT - Armor-Piercing with Tracer
API - Armor-Piercing Incendary
APIT - Armor-Piercing Incendary Tracer
HE - High-Explosive shell
HEI - High-Explosive Incendary shell
HET - High-Explosive with Tracer
HEIT - High-Explosive Incendary Tracer
MG - M-Geschoss, thin-shell High Explosive

such line destinated the sequence of shells/bullets:
// APIT - AP - AP - APIT - API - API


Table itself.
==========================


Browning .303
// APIT - AP - AP - APIT - API - API

API/APIT
mass = 0.010668491403778
speed = 835.0
power = 0.0018

AP
mass = 0.010668491403778
speed = 835.0
power = 0


MG 17
// AP - AP - APT

AP/APT
mass = 0.010
speed = 810.0
power = 0


ShKAS
// APIT - API - T - API

APIT
mass = 0.0096
speed = 869.0
power = 0.0005

API
mass = 0.0096
speed = 871.0
power = 0.0005

T
massa = 0.0096
speed = 869.0
power = 0

Luftcaca
08-27-2004, 02:21 PM
I just met a bunch of Finnish MK1 in my Mig 3 campaign (41 Leningrad)

I shot 4 of em down, NONE OF EM caught on fire, even with the ShKAS

so the problem is not ONLY the ShKAS, but I also blame the P-36's and Stuka's DM...

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

wants flyable:

early 110's
IL-10
Pe-3

Antisubs
08-28-2004, 04:23 AM
More Oleg bashing. The Stuka losses over England were so high they quit using the plane. Were they all flamers? Were any of them flamers? I don't know, but do you either?

And the Fw-190 is porked as well because when you park a Spit on the tail of a "friendly" !?! 190 it's easy to shoot it down. Color me surprised.

I've discovered, after hundreds of offline attempts against "friendly" B-17s that you can shoot one down with absolutely minimal damage to the plane, yet they were "known" for being able to take incredible damage and return home. How? Shoot the cockpit. Color me surprised, Oleg porked another plane.

This is a sim. At best, it poorly recreates reality. In reality, the designation of "Ace" was rare, because the agerage pilot never got 5 kills in his career. I'm a lousy shot, yet I've got THOUSANDS of human-player kills in the years I've been flying WW2 sims.

Let's compare oranges with oranges, guys.

Aaron_GT
08-29-2004, 02:35 AM
"the Stuka was a rough plane that could take much and still making it back home"

Depends on which version of the Ju87 you are talking about. The early versions were known for being easy to shoot down (e.g. during the Battle of Britain) until extra armour was added.

Stefan-R
08-29-2004, 07:34 AM
Most Ju87 during BoB didn't have armor for the pilot and gunner. Why were the loses at BoB so high? It's a simple reason: They were to slow and had to few defense weapons.
Like every other heavy fighter/light bomber at that time (for example the Fairey Battles had high loses during BoF until they were taken out of battle). It was not a weakness of Stuka, it was a weakness of all heavy fighter/light bomber.

The fire at the wingroot are caused by the fueltank that is located at the wingroot.
Compared to the other a/c's they fire up much to easily (the tanks were selfsealing).