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FbusterMk3
05-22-2004, 10:33 AM
Been trying to get the most out of the spit 9 but a bit puzzled with some controls.
Don't seem to be able to manually change supercharger gears, and pressing w makes the "Boost/wep enabled" message appear, but the boost pressure guage doesn't show any increase in pressure!?
How do I use boost without cooking the engine?
BTW I now know what the supercharger warning light means - found out the hard way http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[This message was edited by FbusterMk3 on Sat May 22 2004 at 10:25 AM.]

FbusterMk3
05-22-2004, 10:33 AM
Been trying to get the most out of the spit 9 but a bit puzzled with some controls.
Don't seem to be able to manually change supercharger gears, and pressing w makes the "Boost/wep enabled" message appear, but the boost pressure guage doesn't show any increase in pressure!?
How do I use boost without cooking the engine?
BTW I now know what the supercharger warning light means - found out the hard way http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[This message was edited by FbusterMk3 on Sat May 22 2004 at 10:25 AM.]

lil_labbit
05-22-2004, 11:44 AM
The radiator on the Spit IX is Automatic and can't be set to manual - as in Real Life...
This also is true for the Supercharger...

If you're cooking your engine, get your revs down (set proppitch to manual by pressing Shift-0), or maybe you were on the Desert map (which is HOT), try again on a winter map http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/lilseesya.jpg
Night is better than Day

FbusterMk3
05-22-2004, 01:36 PM
Theres a switch for the supercharger in the cockpit so it must be manual http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

FbusterMk3
05-23-2004, 10:27 AM
bump c'mon someone must have the answers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

DONB3397
05-23-2004, 10:53 AM
The way this plane was built (w/o radiator or supercharger control), it tends to overheat and burns out engines in long, hard dogfights. Nor does it seem to turn as well as the V.

It's a tradeoff; more power, faster climb and increased firepower vs. outstanding agility. I like the IX's and their FM's a lot. Offline, the 190s and 109s no longer own this a/c. Online...we'll see.

http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/3fe77b7e_1812a/bc/Images/Sig---1.jpg?BCSnNsABHMAdLZQo
"And now I see with eye serene/The very pulse of the machine;
A being breathing thoughtful breath,/A Traveller between life and death." -- Wordsworth

VW-IceFire
05-23-2004, 11:25 AM
The Spit IX is a more of a boom and zoom type fighter. Its a bit of a hybrid I suppose but the speed comes with a tradeoff.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

Fillmore
05-23-2004, 05:27 PM
I have no clue what the Spit's SC controls were irl but as I understand the game cannot have both manual and automatic SC control like it can with prop pitch, so if a plane had automatic control it is automatic and you can't switch to manual (even if you could in the real plane).

Bull_dog_
05-23-2004, 06:43 PM
The spit is a very good energy fighter against aircraft of its era...with good climb, the 109G series can't climb with it in a sustained spiral. The boosted series might be able to, but I haven't had a chance to go head to head.

I tried to post a new topic on speed, but couldn't seem to do it so I'll try here: one real oddity I've found is in the area of speed. All the flight models yeilded the same speed plus or minus maybe 5 km/hr except at extreme altitudes like 9000 meters where the HF was 40km/hr faster than the LF and 20km/hr faster than the "normal" version. At first I thought it might have been a bug where all the planes got the same fm because I started at sea level, went to 3000 meters...still no difference adn then up to 7500 but didn't test the LF at that height and eventually to 9000 meters. I was wondering if someone else would test and confirm or deny it...keep in mind I was measuring performance relative to each varient not to printed numbers so the methods of testing shouldn't matter other than I started with the same fuel and ammo load on the same map.

Anyways, I mapped the flaps to a rotary knob and now the spit has combat flaps...but it is still a pig at low speeds. With patience and lack of interference from other aircraft, I've taken on and beat all versions of Fw's, 109's up to but not including G/AS versions, Mustangs, Lightnings and Jugs....Ki's, La's, Ta's and K's got me even with energy tactics and such. Put those guns on target though and your enemy isn't likely to out manuever you any more he he.

Inadaze
05-23-2004, 06:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FbusterMk3:
Been trying to get the most out of the spit 9 but a bit puzzled with some controls.
Don't seem to be able to manually change supercharger gears, and pressing w makes the "Boost/wep enabled" message appear, but the boost pressure guage doesn't show any increase in pressure!?
How do I use boost without cooking the engine?
BTW I now know what the supercharger warning light means - found out the hard way http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[This message was edited by FbusterMk3 on Sat May 22 2004 at 10:25 AM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've been trying to get my head around this too, here's some stuff that works for me.

If you're cruisin keep the revs to 75% or lower, listen to the engine and if its running fast throttle back. In a dogfight try to keep the revs redlined or just under, and unless you really need the power use WEP as little as possible. If you throttle back in dives it helps keep it cooler for longer (substantially I have found).

Prop Pitch can have the same results as using the throttle. Either works as long as it keeps the engine from over revving for too long.

Also if you already have alt don't flog the engine for the sake of it. Speed is good, but you can keep a pretty good 470 to 480km (approx) with around 2800 revs which the Spit can keep up for a considerable time.

The WEP does give extra power btw. The engine revs gain speed when its turned on.

S! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif ~ Inadaze

IKP_Hawk
05-23-2004, 07:45 PM
Flying the Spitfire with the cockpit placarded manifold and rpm settings in mind will help keep it as cool as possible.

MAX BOOST

12PSI AT 3000RPM (T.O. to 1000FT)

16PSI AT 3000RPM (5 MINUTE LIMIT)

9PSI AT 2850RPM (1 HOUR LIMIT)

7PSI AT 2650RPM (MAX CONT)

HAWKY http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

DeerHunterUK
05-24-2004, 05:28 AM
Thanx for that Hawk, those engine settings are very similar to the Hurricane II settings.

12PSI AT 3000RPM (T.O. to 1000FT)
9PSI AT 2850RPM (MAX CLIMBING 1 HOUR LIMIT)
7PSI AT 2650RPM (MAX CONTINOUS)
14PSI AT 3000RPM (COMBAT 5 MIN LIMIT AT M SUPERCHARGER SETTING (stage 1 ingame))
16PSI AT 3000RPM (COMBAT 5 MIN LIMIT AT S SUPERCHARGER SETTING (stage 2 ingame))

No1_Moggy
-----
In memory of 'The Few'
http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

Nub_322Sqn
05-24-2004, 05:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lil_labbit:
The radiator on the Spit IX is Automatic and can't be set to manual - as in Real Life...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have a report here that says otherwise: http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/spit9.html

Here is the part I mean:

SPITFIRE Mk IX PERFORMANCE TRIALS

Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment
Boscombe Down
22 October 1942
Spitfire F. Mk. IX BF.274
(Merlin 61)
Climb and level speed performance

SUMMARY

Climb and level speed performance has been measured on Spitfire F. Mk. IX B.F.274 both with and without a 30 gallon external jettisonable tank fitted. The climb performance at combat rating and position error have also been measured without the tank fitted. The engine was fitted with a 0.477:1 reduction gear and a Rotol R3/4F5/3 metal propeller.


Climb at normal rating:
Maximum rate of climb in M.S. supercharger 3200 ft.min at 13,500 ft.
Maximum rate of climb in F.S. supercharger 2540 ft/min. at 25,900 ft.
Service ceiling (100 ft/min) 42,100 ft.
Time to 10,000 ft. 3.1 mins.
Time to 20,000 ft. 6.5 mins.
Time to 30,000 ft. 10.7 mins
Time to 40,000 ft. 20.2 mins


Climb at Combat rating:
Maximum rate of climb in M.S. supercharger 3860 ft.min at 12,600 ft.
Maximum rate of climb in F.S. supercharger 3020 ft/min. at 25,200 ft.
Service ceiling (100 ft/min) 43,400 ft.
Time to 10,000 ft. 2.7 mins
Time to 20,000 ft. 5.6 mins.
Time to 30,000 ft. 9.2 mins
Time to 40,000 ft. 16.6 mins


Level Speeds.
Maximum true air speed in M.S. supercharger 380 1/2 m.p.h. at 15,400 ft.
Maximum true air speed in F.S. supercharger 403 m.p.h. at 27,400 ft.


Without 30 gallon tank

For the full report see BF274


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment
Boscombe Down
17 March 1943
Spitfire F. Mk. IX BS.428
(Merlin 61)
Level speed performance with and without
a 500 lb bomb fitted

SUMMARY

Level speed measurements have been carried out on this aircraft to assess the effect of fitting a 500 lb bomb on an unfaired rack beneath the fuselage. The installaton was one designed and fitted by Fighter Command personnel.

Level speed performance was measured between 11,000 ft. and 21,000 ft. using all-out level power conditions in M.S. supercharger gear with the radiator flaps closed.


Condition Max. True Air
speed
m.p.h. Full throttle
height
feet.
With one 500 lb. bomb fitted 363 14,500
With external bomb installations removed 385 14,750

Conclusions

The reduction in maximum true air speed in M.S. supercharger gear due to fitting a 500 lb. bomb and a bomb rack without fairing is 22 m.p.h.


Climbs

Max. rate of climb in M.S. gear (radiator flaps open) 5080 ft/min up to 500 feet
Max. rate of climb in F.S. gear (radiator flaps open) 4335 ft/min at 11,400 feet
Max. rate of climb in F.S. gear (radiator flaps shut) 4750 ft/min at 11,400 feet

******************

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rcma/banners/Nubarusbanner.jpg

DeerHunterUK
05-24-2004, 06:11 AM
This picture is taken from the Pilot Notes for a Spitfire Mk IX (part 21 is the important 1)...
http://www.lima1.co.uk/deerhunter/spit09.JPG

No1_Moggy
-----
In memory of 'The Few'
http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

jeroen_R90S
05-24-2004, 06:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T-ONub_322Sqn:

I have a report here that says otherwise: http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/spit9.html

Here is the part I mean:

{snippetysnap}

Climbs

Max. rate of climb in M.S. gear _(radiator flaps open)_ 5080 ft/min up to 500 feet
Max. rate of climb in F.S. gear _(radiator flaps open)_ 4335 ft/min at 11,400 feet
Max. rate of climb in F.S. gear _(radiator flaps shut)_ 4750 ft/min at 11,400 feet
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It doesn't say anywhere that the radiator flaps were activated manually?

Jeroen

Montgomery Python
05-24-2004, 06:47 AM
Does in that scan of the manual, bottom right.

Use &gt;90% prop pitch very sparingly and it doesn't overheat that much. It's a wierd handling plane though, that's for sure.

Nub_322Sqn
05-24-2004, 07:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jeroen_R90S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T-ONub_322Sqn:

I have a report here that says otherwise: http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/eagles/spit9.html

Here is the part I mean:

{snippetysnap}

Climbs

Max. rate of climb in M.S. gear _(radiator flaps open)_ 5080 ft/min up to 500 feet
Max. rate of climb in F.S. gear _(radiator flaps open)_ 4335 ft/min at 11,400 feet
Max. rate of climb in F.S. gear _(radiator flaps shut)_ 4750 ft/min at 11,400 feet
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It doesn't say anywhere that the radiator flaps were activated manually?

Jeroen<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, then I suppose they closed on their own because the test pilot wanted this in order to perform his test.

I also haven't seen any indicator that tells you if they are closed or open and I find it very hard to believe he climbed out of the cockpit to see under his wings if they where open or closed so he could write it in the report.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~rcma/banners/Nubarusbanner.jpg

VW-IceFire
05-24-2004, 07:52 AM
According to the book I'm reading which is written by Arthur Bishop who flew Spit V and IX's the radiator flaps were automated and so was the supercharger control. Both had a manual setting that could be engaged. I don't think the game is capable of manual and auto supercharger settings...it is with the radiator. I've also heard that manual rad control was done only on the ground during certain tests so it may not have ever been used in flight.

Apparently there is also a horn that comes on when throttle is reduced to less than 1/3rd and gear is not locked into the down position. All sorts of nifty things http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

ZG77_Lignite
05-24-2004, 08:15 AM
Just to address the other question of the original poster: The reason you may not be seeing any boost (manifold pressure) increase when pressing the 'WEP' button is your altitude. If you are at an altitude where the supercharger is still in low gear, but high enough that it cannot create any more boost, you will not see any gains in horsepower (RPM increase notwithstanding, it is debateable whether 'WEP' buttons also increase RPM's, and whether it historically should or not).

To see the higher boost pressures, fly at rated altitudes for that aircraft. For example, the FW190 shifts at about 3000m, so it developes full horsepower at sealevel up to about 1800(?)m, and 3000m up to about 5500m. I'm unsure of the Spits critical altitudes.

jeroen_R90S
05-24-2004, 09:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T-ONub_322Sqn:
I also haven't seen any indicator that tells you if they are closed or open and I find it very hard to believe he climbed out of the cockpit to see under his wings if they where open or closed so he could write it in the report.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL @ last part! The book scan Deerhunter posted says some sort of electric testing mode was on the electric board, wherever that may be. That might have been used during the flight tests?

Jeroen

DeerHunterUK
05-24-2004, 09:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jeroen_R90S:
LOL @ last part! The book scan Deerhunter posted says some sort of electric testing mode was on the electric board, wherever that may be. That might have been used during the flight tests?

Jeroen<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The pushbutton for testing the gear change on the ground is located on the port side of the cockpit, just below and slightly behind the rudder trim tab handwheel. I'd imagine that it'd be used by the groundcrew during regular maintainence checks as there's a few other testing switches on that board aswell.

No1_Moggy
-----
In memory of 'The Few'
http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

CraytonRoberts
05-24-2004, 01:37 PM
Bulldog, what's a "rotary knob" so that you can fine-tune flaps? How is it installed?