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Venom079
04-06-2004, 12:20 PM
Hi peoplz! Relatively new to the forums, great source of info. You guys know your sh** well!
Having some trouble landing when my elevator controls get shot up and unusable. I can RTB no problem but getting her on the ground is the hard part. Some might say just to bail over your base, but i want the RL scenario http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I've tried a rudder/rolling combo to adjust altitude but never can get the right approach...help!

Venom079
04-06-2004, 12:20 PM
Hi peoplz! Relatively new to the forums, great source of info. You guys know your sh** well!
Having some trouble landing when my elevator controls get shot up and unusable. I can RTB no problem but getting her on the ground is the hard part. Some might say just to bail over your base, but i want the RL scenario http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I've tried a rudder/rolling combo to adjust altitude but never can get the right approach...help!

Cold_Gambler
04-06-2004, 12:26 PM
rudder/rolling can help (roll + kick rudder to get the nose up), but I would use the throttle mainly (+ flaps a bit) to control pitch without elevator.

Tovarish_06
04-06-2004, 12:42 PM
In an RL scenario, I don't know of many pilots who would try to land without elevators. Making it back over friendly lines and bailing out would be enough....

http://academic.algonquincollege.com/students/lope0036/bf109eKill.gif http://academic.algonquincollege.com/students/lope0036/sigPart12.jpg

StellarRat
04-06-2004, 12:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cold_Gambler:
rudder/rolling can help (roll + kick rudder to get the nose up), but I would use the throttle mainly (+ flaps a bit) to control pitch without elevator.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I find that the plane tends to climb when your elevators are gone. You can try to roll the plane upside down to lose attitude then turnover to go up. Somewhere there is a very fine balance between speed and up elevators that should allow you to fly without gaining or losing attitude. I've only pulled off a couple of landings with my elevators gone.

Venom079
04-06-2004, 12:50 PM
thanks guys http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

RedStar_cfso002
04-06-2004, 01:33 PM
use steady and not too high power setting.
approch to rwy a little faster(220-190km/h) than usual(180km/h), with flaps at takeoff position.
and , most important , approch with a not so slant glide slope than usuall .
a longer final leg then usuall is also requiet.
don`t mind if touch down at middle of rwy. u don`t need a full length to stop it.
when about to touch down, reduce power slowly to idle , in the same time, drop full flaps.
when u approch ,if find the nost too high, u may roll left and right with aileron , it will make your nose lower in your desire degree with different times of roll.
when u want to nose up , add power is a simple and effective choice.
I did land without ele. in combat many times, pilot survive on rwy is for sure, usually even the properler are also undamage.
enjoy it!

horseback
04-06-2004, 08:58 PM
Try your elevator trim...often, in RL, pilots with damaged elevator controls were able to use their trim to control climb and descent.

Doesn't work if the elevators are gone, though.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

Fillmore
04-06-2004, 10:31 PM
I managed it for the first time awhile ago. You need a very long landing approach. here is step by step.

1. Use aelerons and rudder to drop some altitude anf get around 1000m or less.

2. Adjust throttle to control pitch, find the throttle setting that gives you level flight.

3. Get down to 500m or less on your approach, in level flight.

4. Start applying flaps, and then adjust throttle to maintain slight decent.

5. You should get to the runway with landing flaps and gear down in level flight just meters above the runway.

6. Lower throttle and touch down. Turn off engine, but do not use brakes (no elevator to stop nose pitching down with brakes).

You main problems will be controlling your altitude while turning for final. You final difficulty will be that your approach will be at very high speed and you won't be able to use brakes after landing.

TX-EcoDragon
04-06-2004, 11:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tovarish_06:
In an RL scenario, I don't know of many pilots who would try to land without elevators. Making it back over friendly lines and bailing out would be enough....

http://academic.algonquincollege.com/students/lope0036/bf109eKill.gif http://academic.algonquincollege.com/students/lope0036/sigPart12.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They would of course have the option of bailing, but in many instances landing with a cable cut is no biggie at all, simply trim in the direction that you can't deflect the surface and then use the good cable to oppose it, the final result is much the same as if you had a fully intact control linkage, but were just out of trim. If both the cables are cut, but trim is intact, that is not too big of a deal either, and a landing would probably be reasonable, if the surface is jammed it would depend on where it is jammed, if it is near a slow cruise setting then again a landing could be done using power, but if it is at either extreme then bailing is the best idea. In the sim only a complete jamming is modeled, so all of this is irrelevant, and the way that pitch responds to power changes in the sim isn't quite like most aircraft that I have flown, but its still pretty well done. . . the above examples all pretty much cover it. I tend to use the rudder in addition to power to control pitch and descent rate, and usually save the last notch of flaps to help soften the touch down.

S!
TX-EcoDragon
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ELEM
04-07-2004, 01:21 AM
In the RL it would be either a brave man or a fool who tried landing without elevator.

I wouldn't join any club that would have ME as member!

http://img35.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Elem_Klimov/I-16_desktop.jpg

Venom079
04-07-2004, 07:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fillmore:
I managed it for the first time awhile ago. You need a very long landing approach. here is step by step.

1. Use aelerons and rudder to drop some altitude anf get around 1000m or less.

2. Adjust throttle to control pitch, find the throttle setting that gives you level flight.

3. Get down to 500m or less on your approach, in level flight.

4. Start applying flaps, and then adjust throttle to maintain slight decent.

5. You should get to the runway with landing flaps and gear down in level flight just meters above the runway.

6. Lower throttle and touch down. Turn off engine, but do not use brakes (no elevator to stop nose pitching down with brakes).

You main problems will be controlling your altitude while turning for final. You final difficulty will be that your approach will be at very high speed and you won't be able to use brakes after landing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

S! thanks fillmore for the guide http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif it takes BIG balls to want to land a heavily wounded bird!

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-07-2004, 08:42 AM
Fillmore hit it spot on. Make sure your lined up though WAYYYY out there as it's obviously impossible to flare or scrub speed. Rudder to line up and keep your speed. A nose drop at the last minute is doom.



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

ShVAK
04-07-2004, 09:16 AM
Quite simple really:

1. Set up for a long and shallow straight-in approach (similar to no-aileron).

2. Get your speed down to 300 or so for approach, and 250 on short final.

3. Flaps down and throttle application will make you climb, while throttle off, flap up and gear down will make you go down. Try trim also. Also use gentle "S" turns to control excessive climb potential.

4. Get combat flap and gear down, set speed and see what you plane does. Vary flap and throttle setting to climb or descend.

5. On short final, you want to cut throttle and have full flap. Keep nose above horizon. Power down about 10m above the ground and let plane settle - do not lower flap here.

6. Make sure that you touch down in the first third of the runway.


"If you want full realism, join the military!"

TX-EcoDragon
04-07-2004, 09:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ELEM:
In the RL it would be either a brave man or a fool who tried landing without elevator.

I wouldn't join any club that would have ME as member!

http://img35.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Elem_Klimov/I-16_desktop.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

not all of us have a choice, I don't always have a parachute. . . and the facts remain, it isn't something that a pilot can't train and prepare for, and shouldnt be beyond their ability in the cable cut situations. I have trained and practiced landings without each individual control surface, and have also done landings using only throttle and rudder, while the stick was in an isolated position, and all I can say is it isn't exceptionally difficult if the jamming is near a cruise setting. These facts don't directly apply to this sim however.

S!
TX-EcoDragon
Black 1
TX Squadron XO
http://www.txsquadron.com

Member-Team Raven
http://www.waynehandley.com

First Slot Pilot Aircraft #4 of the Virtual Haute-Voltige Team
http://www.vhvt.com/

http://www.attitudeaviation.com/

http://www.calaggieflyers.com

http://www.txsquadron.com/uploaded/TX-EcoDragon/ravenvert.jpg