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View Full Version : More cent talk and reevaluating my tier list.



Knight_Raime
08-22-2017, 12:23 AM
Let's just get right to it. I know how many people hate the centurion and I get repeated flak for defending him. I've done my share of lengthy debates. I created a thread specifically calling for nerfs (and a few buffs) for centurion. I have always ranked Centurion as mid tier if not top of the mid tier grouping. But I always get laughed out of threads for stating as such. Well today i'm going to explain how I ranked the heros in the past and how I rank them now. That way going forward hopefully people won't think i'm just bad or biased or both just because I may not be agreeing with people.

My old tier list which hasn't been updated since about mid of season 2:
god tier: warlord, shinobi
Top tier: PK, conq, warden.
Mid tier: mostly everyone.
Bottom tier: kensei, shugoki.

God tier is simple. a hero with many options on top of strong openings.
Top tier is a well rounded kit that either has a solid way to open someone or had some gimmick that kept them propped up (conq)
mid tier is full of people who either are one trick ponies or lop sided kits that just don't have a consistent way to open up a turtle.
and bottom tier is for people who just can't stick it in this meta regardless of buffs or nerfs to the other cast. They may or may not have a solid kit. But we won't see them doing anything amazing till the defensive meta is fixed.

The biggest thing to understand about my tier list is 2 things: I don't look at unlock tech or any ultra cheesy tactic. Secondly I look at the entire kit for viability. and how they would perform without light parry punishes. So where does centurion come into this? Well I classified him previously as top of mid tier. That was because I excluded his infinite wall combo. Because I excluded his light parry punishes. And because pretty much anything he has outside of that is bad against a competent player barring parry counter and his charging heavy. Essentially I saw only 2-3 good things about him. And he has no opener. Which is why he's ranked lower than most people like to place him.

On top of that when I argue I don't even think about his parry punishes (aside from counter) because we know and have known for awhile that light parry punishes were going to be going away. and that is one fo the 3 major things about centurion that makes him so good. that combined with the shift of the PTR 2 changes we tested were always at the front of my mind. Essentially I as a centurion main not only play him differently than most do. But i've always seen him differently than most. So for that I can be slammed for. Not for bias. Just a different way of thinking.

HOWEVER, since the big changes won't likely be coming till season 4 and we likely will not see huge character rebalancing until then it's pretty clear that I have to change my outlook on things. I still refuse to acknowledge a kit being "top tier" because of some new unlock tech or exploit. When I think of tier list i'm still going to look at the kit as a whole. But going forward I will do my best to acknowledge cheesy exploits and unlock tech. And do my best to remind people when i'm discussing a kit I'm not talking about an exploit or unlock tech. I WILL acknowledge light parry punishes going forward until they are gone.

That being said let me rank the heros along with the new dlc ones. there will be 2 lists. the competitive list. and my personal one. Competitive includes any and all tactics and tech. My personal list ignores cheese and unlocks:

Competitive tier list:
Top tier: nobushi>Warlord>PK/centurion>warden.
Upper tier: Conq> Shinobi> Raider.
Mid tier: Orochi> valk> berzerker> Lawbringer.
Low tier: Kensei/goki

DLC heros are excluded since we don't know of any unlock tech for either yet. No exploits. and we're still feeling out them overall.

Personal list:
Top tier: Warlord> shinobi> warden> pk> gladiator.
upper tier: Centurion> Highlander> Nobushi> Zerker/orochi> conq.
mid tier: Lawbringer> Valk.
Low tier: kensei/goki.

Rather than type out why I believe what I believe if you have a question on my placement feel free to ask. both lists are ordered from top to bottom in that tier. /= same or hard to say either due to lack of match ups/experience or because I feel they are about equal. TLDR: My own personal ranking ignored cheese and unlock tech. Plus i'm always looking at the kit as a whole and what it would be like in a non defensive meta. I was never really on the same page with people who I debated with. I apologize.

UbiJurassic
08-22-2017, 12:46 AM
Thanks for sharing your tier list! Finding out where each hero stands in the eyes of the community helps us better understand areas for improvement when it come to balance changes for the future. Do other players have thoughts or opinions they'd like to share on his tier rankings?

RatedChaotic
08-22-2017, 01:03 AM
Ya most are afraid too....wink. Its why I always stressed this tier stuff to the community. Most dont post a list. They just say this hero is this and we bicker over that one hero for pages....But I think Valk is above Conq personally.lol good list.

Sneaky-Patches
08-22-2017, 01:14 AM
I think you got some right, but shinobi is nowhere near top tier. Out of all the heroes you've named, shinobi is one of the only heros that nobody has even made it into the beginning of a tournament with, because his moves are all fairy easy to dodge and also punish. Shinobi would be either beside kensei, or in a tier between the very bottom and the next highest.

Majority of Competitive For Honor reddit ranks him down at the bottom beside kensei. A post came up recently with a competitive player giving a pretty accurate tier list, with the most upvotes. I think he nailed it, I'll link it here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/6uumo2/in_need_of_a_tier_list/

kweassa1
08-22-2017, 01:20 AM
The term "competitive tier list", in this case, simply means "when we assume its totally OK to simply abuse whatever bugs in game", I'm afraid. IMO performance comparisons should never take in as a factor any kind of bug abuse.

Netcode_err_404
08-22-2017, 01:42 AM
I think you got some right, but shinobi is nowhere near top tier. Out of all the heroes you've named, shinobi is one of the only heros that nobody has even made it into the beginning of a tournament with, because his moves are all fairy easy to dodge and also punish. Shinobi would be either beside kensei, or in a tier between the very bottom and the next highest.

Majority of Competitive For Honor reddit ranks him down at the bottom beside kensei. A post came up recently with a competitive player giving a pretty accurate tier list, with the most upvotes. I think he nailed it, I'll link it here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/6uumo2/in_need_of_a_tier_list/

That list a just a big discussions about exploits by an exploiter.


But even him confirmed all I said since raider buff.


He is s tier just because stapede abuse.

Sneaky-Patches
08-22-2017, 01:53 AM
That list a just a big discussions about exploits by an exploiter.


But even him confirmed all I said since raider buff.


He is s tier just because stapede abuse.

I'm not disagreeing, this exploiting stuff is pure cancer and these people abusing it should be fired into the sun, but it doesn't change the fact that that is the reality of what the current tier list is.

If they fix the unlock exploit, nobushi won't be top tier at all, mid or lower. And as you said raider will probably drop if they fix his stampede (not an exploit), but will still be very strong due to his OOS punish being the best in the game.

It's still not too far off though, and the bottom tier is very accurate (to varying degrees) regardless.

RatedChaotic
08-22-2017, 01:58 AM
That list a just a big discussions about exploits by an exploiter.


But even him confirmed all I said since raider buff.


He is s tier just because stapede abuse.

After reading through those comments...... I marveled in my awesomeness......about everthing I said about tiers.....LMAO oops ment to quote errors comment lol

but I'm just a pve player what do I know?

Vakris_One
08-22-2017, 01:59 AM
I'm not disagreeing, this exploiting stuff is pure cancer and these people abusing it should be fired into the sun, but it doesn't change the fact that that is the reality of what the current tier list is.

If they fix the unlock exploit, nobushi won't be top tier at all, mid or lower. And as you said raider will probably drop if they fix his stampede (not an exploit), but will still be very strong due to his OOS punish being the best in the game.

It's still not too far off though, and the bottom tier is very accurate (to varying degrees) regardless.
It feels very much like a personal list in my opinion. I mean he puts Warden and Lawbringer in the bottom tier alongside Kensei? Hmm... Interesting.

Sneaky-Patches
08-22-2017, 02:11 AM
It feels very much like a personal list in my opinion. I mean he puts Warden and Lawbringer in the bottom tier alongside Kensei? Hmm... Interesting.

I guess it is a personal list, but the majority of the players on that reddit are all fairly competitive players, always discussing how to squeeze a drop of extra damage out of scenarios or exploits and how to get out of them, or maximum punishes for every conceivable scenario etc.. Usually when they all upvote a popular list it tends to be pretty close, in my opinion anyway. I've learnt a lot reading through that sub reddit, and how to spot these exploiters on the PS4 too, and workarounds of how to beat them without stooping to their level.

But yeah, I kinda agree that lawbringer isn't great (but not bottom tier though, I woulda thought mid) and I though warden would be higher too, but maybe things have shifted a bit as of late? Did anyone see any wardens in the last competition? I didn't get to see all the rosters that faced off so I'm not too sure on that...

Vakris_One
08-22-2017, 02:31 AM
I guess it is a personal list, but the majority of the players on that reddit are all fairly competitive players, always discussing how to squeeze a drop of extra damage out of scenarios or exploits and how to get out of them, or maximum punishes for every conceivable scenario etc.. Usually when they all upvote a popular list it tends to be pretty close, in my opinion anyway. I've learnt a lot reading through that sub reddit, and how to spot these exploiters on the PS4 too, and workarounds of how to beat them without stooping to their level.

But yeah, I kinda agree that lawbringer isn't great (but not bottom tier though, I woulda thought mid) and I though warden would be higher too, but maybe things have shifted a bit as of late? Did anyone see any wardens in the last competition? I didn't get to see all the rosters that faced off so I'm not too sure on that...
No Wardens that I could see. Apparrently Bandanaa was a Warden main untill he switched to Centurion pretty much a couple days before the tournament. I love how he and Alernakin were the only two going on unbeaten streaks - one of them picked up Centurion a day or so before the tournament and the other one hadn't played the game for 2 weeks. Comedy gold.

As long as Warden's SB guessing game takes little to no stamina he will always be 'competitive' at top tier or close to it. I mean just look at what he can do to a genuinley top tier skill player who refuses to use exploits:

https://youtu.be/jETgDKRUlgc

Netcode_err_404
08-22-2017, 03:09 AM
I guess it is a personal list, but the majority of the players on that reddit are all fairly competitive players, always discussing how to squeeze a drop of extra damage out of scenarios or exploits and how to get out of them, or maximum punishes for every conceivable scenario etc.. Usually when they all upvote a popular list it tends to be pretty close, in my opinion anyway. I've learnt a lot reading through that sub reddit, and how to spot these exploiters on the PS4 too, and workarounds of how to beat them without stooping to their level.

But yeah, I kinda agree that lawbringer isn't great (but not bottom tier though, I woulda thought mid) and I though warden would be higher too, but maybe things have shifted a bit as of late? Did anyone see any wardens in the last competition? I didn't get to see all the rosters that faced off so I'm not too sure on that...

These players may be competitive.

BUT the game is not.


:)


Meaningless list.


Wardens in the same spot of Lb's, and kensei ?


In which planet ?

Knight_Raime
08-22-2017, 05:31 AM
Ya most are afraid too....wink. Its why I always stressed this tier stuff to the community. Most dont post a list. They just say this hero is this and we bicker over that one hero for pages....But I think Valk is above Conq personally.lol good list.

why is that?

Knight_Raime
08-22-2017, 05:34 AM
I think you got some right, but shinobi is nowhere near top tier. Out of all the heroes you've named, shinobi is one of the only heros that nobody has even made it into the beginning of a tournament with, because his moves are all fairy easy to dodge and also punish. Shinobi would be either beside kensei, or in a tier between the very bottom and the next highest.

Majority of Competitive For Honor reddit ranks him down at the bottom beside kensei. A post came up recently with a competitive player giving a pretty accurate tier list, with the most upvotes. I think he nailed it, I'll link it here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/6uumo2/in_need_of_a_tier_list/

I firmly believe that Shinobi is only ranked so low because kick got nerfed. So now his one cheesy tactic is gone people think he's bad. Same thing is going to happen once raiders insta stampede is dealt with. Shinobi has one of the best whiff punishes in the game (ranged GB into sickle rain) has superior movement, can punish people who attempt to push too far on him after they've knocked him down, and some decent mix ups. He may not be close to top tier. but he's not struggling anywhere near as much compared to kensei or goki.

I also don't care about skorabrand's opinion. He ranked goki higher than warden. Warden has a far better kit but he ranked goki higher simply due to a better punish. That discredits his opinion in my eyes.

Knight_Raime
08-22-2017, 05:37 AM
The term "competitive tier list", in this case, simply means "when we assume its totally OK to simply abuse whatever bugs in game", I'm afraid. IMO performance comparisons should never take in as a factor any kind of bug abuse.

Well. yes. But the players are more than capable of beating people without them. Tier lists in fighting games are almost always based off of everything that a character can do that's considered tournament legal. So in this case unlock tech is legal. There for tier ranking has to consider the unlock tech to be a considered legit tier list. As much as I agree here with you morals have no place in tournaments. If it's allowed then it's allowed. Trying to bash players for using something that is allowed is silly and does nothing for no one. take it out on either the game or the devs for it existing.
Not the players who are simply doing what they showed up to do. win.

Sneaky-Patches
08-22-2017, 06:41 AM
I firmly believe that Shinobi is only ranked so low because kick got nerfed. So now his one cheesy tactic is gone people think he's bad. Same thing is going to happen once raiders insta stampede is dealt with. Shinobi has one of the best whiff punishes in the game (ranged GB into sickle rain) has superior movement, can punish people who attempt to push too far on him after they've knocked him down, and some decent mix ups. He may not be close to top tier. but he's not struggling anywhere near as much compared to kensei or goki.

I also don't care about skorabrand's opinion. He ranked goki higher than warden. Warden has a far better kit but he ranked goki higher simply due to a better punish. That discredits his opinion in my eyes.

He's low tier because his kit doesn't amount to much when you face players that know how to punish shinobi. Kick is extremely slow and telegraphed so it's not hard to dodge, and once you dodge it, you can guarantee shinobi will throw out a top heavy which you can then parry for a free top heavy for 50% of his health.

All his mixups revolve around slinging in/out, but are easily blocked or parried.

He may have a decent punish, but you need to get your enemy to just let a heavy attack fly for no good reason, and you have to be ready to charge and throw that GB, if you are off by a split second, then you are eating a top heavy.

Worst Zone Attack in the game. No fast way to punish light attack whiffs like every other assasin who has a dodge attack.

All his ranged stuff becomes to risky and really silly to use against people that are parry masters. Ranged GB again, even at noob level play this is pointless.

Deflects are ok, but become riskier than other assasins due to having such low health. Deflect damage doesn't stack, doesn't refresh, stops stam regen for 5 seconds, takes 13 1/2 seconds to run out before you can try apply bleed again, and is barely better than other assasins, except for zerks wallsplat punish, and glads pin, or orochis heavy.

Has a really bad OOS punish, other heroes can get in 2 heavies, or can spam unblockables to bait easy parries. Also shinobi has that terrible reflex guard, so when enemies feint into light attacks on the same side you basically have no choice but to eat that light attack because your guard just deteoriates. Enemies will come up with strategies to further exploit that too, by getting the timing down to keep breaking into the gap in your guard. Also means you can't keep holding a guard stance ready to preemptively block a fast ZA, you must now do it on reaction.

After this, he hasn't really got anything left. Double lights?

It just comes down to everything in his kit being so punishable, and your always at the mercy of your enemy, always relying on your enemy not parrying you attacks or not dodging your kick, as opposed to creating openings and only attacking when it's safe. Sure, you can dictate the pace of the fight, but that puts you in the role of aggressor as opposed to counter attacker. Has a bunch of moves but almost all fall short.

ArchDukeInstinct
08-22-2017, 08:35 AM
Competitive tier list:
Top tier: nobushi>Warlord>PK/centurion>warden.
Upper tier: Conq> Shinobi> Raider.
Mid tier: Orochi> valk> berzerker> Lawbringer.
Low tier: Kensei/goki


I love how a class that's barely used outside of tournaments, let alone in tournaments is considered top tier. Pretty much the only place you're going to see conquerors is in dominion and other 4v4 modes and the vast majority of those are just bots. You can play duel for weeks on end and be lucky to even find one conqueror. It's crazy, like OMG he's got superior block, I can't just let random heavies fly, something I wouldn't do against any other class either, what am I do to now?

Knight_Raime
08-22-2017, 10:20 AM
He's low tier because his kit doesn't amount to much when you face players that know how to punish shinobi. Kick is extremely slow and telegraphed so it's not hard to dodge, and once you dodge it, you can guarantee shinobi will throw out a top heavy which you can then parry for a free top heavy for 50% of his health.

All his mixups revolve around slinging in/out, but are easily blocked or parried.

He may have a decent punish, but you need to get your enemy to just let a heavy attack fly for no good reason, and you have to be ready to charge and throw that GB, if you are off by a split second, then you are eating a top heavy.

Worst Zone Attack in the game. No fast way to punish light attack whiffs like every other assasin who has a dodge attack.

All his ranged stuff becomes to risky and really silly to use against people that are parry masters. Ranged GB again, even at noob level play this is pointless.

Deflects are ok, but become riskier than other assasins due to having such low health. Deflect damage doesn't stack, doesn't refresh, stops stam regen for 5 seconds, takes 13 1/2 seconds to run out before you can try apply bleed again, and is barely better than other assasins, except for zerks wallsplat punish, and glads pin, or orochis heavy.

Has a really bad OOS punish, other heroes can get in 2 heavies, or can spam unblockables to bait easy parries. Also shinobi has that terrible reflex guard, so when enemies feint into light attacks on the same side you basically have no choice but to eat that light attack because your guard just deteoriates. Enemies will come up with strategies to further exploit that too, by getting the timing down to keep breaking into the gap in your guard. Also means you can't keep holding a guard stance ready to preemptively block a fast ZA, you must now do it on reaction.

After this, he hasn't really got anything left. Double lights?

It just comes down to everything in his kit being so punishable, and your always at the mercy of your enemy, always relying on your enemy not parrying you attacks or not dodging your kick, as opposed to creating openings and only attacking when it's safe. Sure, you can dictate the pace of the fight, but that puts you in the role of aggressor as opposed to counter attacker. Has a bunch of moves but almost all fall short.

I use kick to whiff punish or dodge an attack on reaction. Seems to work well. at least in my skill bracket.
I mean the fact that he can whiff attacks and still flip in my mind creates mind games.
Yeah the whiff punish is difficult to master. Doesn't devalue it though.
Yeah I agree the zone is bad. I've wanted his and cents to be cancelable like all other multi hit zones since they dropped.
If at max range his ranged attacks are basically unpunishable for most of the cast. those that can make it in time for an attack risk shinobi retaliating during their punish.
Deflect into kick is amazing simply because it guarantee's a ranged heavy.
yeah his OOS isn't crazy.

I still stand by my original point. Maybe if he had more health people would consider him better. But I still think he's a lot better than most give credit for. Just feels bad that 1-2 mistakes kills you. Either way he's still better than goki and kensei.

Knight_Raime
08-22-2017, 10:24 AM
I love how a class that's barely used outside of tournaments, let alone in tournaments is considered top tier. Pretty much the only place you're going to see conquerors is in dominion and other 4v4 modes and the vast majority of those are just bots. You can play duel for weeks on end and be lucky to even find one conqueror. It's crazy, like OMG he's got superior block, I can't just let random heavies fly, something I wouldn't do against any other class either, what am I do to now?

For the first part are you referring to bushi? If so it's entirely due to what she can do unlock tech wise. It also helps she can cancel her dash attacks to have zero recovery.
As for conq I've happened to come across some very good conq's that don't just sit and turtle. they aggressively dash into your attacks and do a lot of full block feinting.
Not saying conq by any stretch is super powerful. I believe conq sits where he sits in the competitive list because it's simply very hard to actually punish/open a conq if the conq knows what they are doing. that combined with the frankly insane tech that conq can do with making indicators flicker every where.

Conq is just under played because he's boring. At least in my opinion.

Trbevis
08-22-2017, 10:25 AM
Shinobi god tier hahhaha what a joke, even if you have a problem with shinobi you can make plenty of mistakes and still be alive, wheras if shinobi makes one or two mistakes shes basically dead, its no wonder you hardly ever see them in games anymore, its not worth it, one parry or counter guardbreak, free heavy. Yes thats fair, but thats fine with me, if she was made better she could become high up tier, so leave her be, and kensei isnt low tier, i mean i know everyone cries about him being awful, yet the true people who play as kensei can very often destroy people, so not top tier but definitely not bottom tier, just my two cents anyway, nice one for attempting a list

Knight_Raime
08-22-2017, 10:28 AM
Shinobi god tier hahhaha what a joke, even if you have a problem with shinobi you can make plenty of mistakes and still be alive, wheras if shinobi makes one or two mistakes shes basically dead, its no wonder you hardly ever see them in games anymore, its not worth it, one parry or counter guardbreak, free heavy. Yes thats fair, but thats fine with me, if she was made better she could become high up tier, so leave her be, and kensei isnt low tier, i mean i know everyone cries about him being awful, yet the true people who play as kensei can very often destroy people, so not top tier but definitely not bottom tier, just my two cents anyway, nice one for attempting a list

ahem. Clearly you missed the part where I said that particular tier list hadn't been updated since around the middle of season 2. That context is kind of important.
The list was made before he got his kick nerfed.

Kensei has a good kit as a whole. Just doesn't fit in with the current defensive meta. A god tier kensei player could be doing a lot better/getting a lot more from their effort if they were playing almost any other hero.

Trbevis
08-22-2017, 10:38 AM
Oh is it haha? I didnt realise, my bad, saw it come up as recent.

Knight_Raime
08-22-2017, 10:42 AM
Oh is it haha? I didnt realise, my bad, saw it come up as recent.

Nah my up to date tier lists are towards the bottom of my post. the competitive one has unlock tech and cheese in mind. My personal tier list does not acknowledge either. But does acknowledge all light parry punishes and OOS punishes.

SenBotsu893
08-22-2017, 02:54 PM
Are you playing on PC or Consoles?

Also what about Zone attacks? i think those are a big factor especally on Consoles. the Fast Zones are not possible to parry on reaction on consoles. but i have seen some of the good players parry them on PC on reaction.

Knight_Raime
08-22-2017, 06:27 PM
Are you playing on PC or Consoles?

Also what about Zone attacks? i think those are a big factor especally on Consoles. the Fast Zones are not possible to parry on reaction on consoles. but i have seen some of the good players parry them on PC on reaction.

Xbox. Didn't really factor in anyones zone barring pk's and bushi's. For me the only one that gets me even consistently is pk's. I'm usually blocking bushi's and wardens. I don't see a lot of orochi's using zone these days. Oh and IG raiders since it's apart of his "mix ups"

Zhantay
08-22-2017, 06:57 PM
As a Nobushi main I'm happy she isn't just low tier, but at the same time her unlock tech is dirty. Kensei however should be mid tier with the amount of armor he gets on swings, if his openers arent parried he just trades hits and his feinting is still one of the best next to zerker. And his Overhead unblockable that can be turned into an armored side heavy can also be feinted into a grab,light or a heavy so in this instance Kensei can feint his attack twice in a row to catch players offguard. But most Kensei's i see don't even feint but still this is the potiental of Kensei, just sucks that he's been low tier since the game's release.

SenBotsu893
08-22-2017, 09:38 PM
As a Nobushi main I'm happy she isn't just low tier, but at the same time her unlock tech is dirty. Kensei however should be mid tier with the amount of armor he gets on swings, if his openers arent parried he just trades hits and his feinting is still one of the best next to zerker. And his Overhead unblockable that can be turned into an armored side heavy can also be feinted into a grab,light or a heavy so in this instance Kensei can feint his attack twice in a row to catch players offguard. But most Kensei's i see don't even feint but still this is the potiental of Kensei, just sucks that he's been low tier since the game's release.

the problem with feint is that it cant beat a turtle. it would require them to actually try and parry the incomming attack. but if someone just blocks theres no going through.
Also Kensei only gains Hyperarmor on his Heavy sidefinsisher. all other attacks are interuptable.

in that regard i find Higlander is excelling in Kenseis Coremoves. he gets the hyperarmor on all his heavy swings. and his Celtic curse cancel is basically a better version of Kenseis finisher mix up because it has hyperarmor on startup + dodge frames(if canceld into sideheavy) and is also faster. to top it off the celtic curse can be used as an initator while Kensei has to go through his moveset to start the mix up.

Mythic MK II
08-22-2017, 10:44 PM
Idk what most people think is really bad about Centurrion. but here is my opninion (ignore the double letters that come out sometimes, my KB is being stupid lately)

His wall combo;
I know that you count the list without the gimmicks but this is the thing people are, justifyingly, mad about. It takes a ton of health off of you without escape opportunities.

IMO, this is truly the only thing that bothers me. in 1v1 he is easy to counter with a good assortment of classes. Ofcourse, it is about your ability to react and knowledge of that class wether you succeed. I guess quite a few are not able to.

His pins:

This is THE main problem I have with the class but only in 4v4. and only a tad bit in 1v1.

He has plenty of ways to get you out of stam and even knock you on the ground with stam. Ganking used to be fine aand could be countered. But with him as one of the gankers you are just completely, dare I say, ****ed. charged heavy, Charged jab (and then to prolong it, ground pin which puts you practically in a cutscene). These attacks and abilities makes him the ultimate, rage inducing, nemesis of any 4v4 mode. Most of the time dodging won't go well either because the other folk that gank you will just grab you and you have no way to get out of that.

Yeah I can parry before he does the charged heavy with then again, I have another guy to worry about. (and laately indicators don't always show up which makes it REALLY hard to counter anything).

Maybe they should just make it so that if you get hit while being stabbed on the grround that you get up immediately? idk.

Anyways. this is the issue with Cent. 1v1 he is okay, and can be a hard matchup for plenty of people. But in 4v4 he reigns king of the gankers.

Knight_Raime
08-22-2017, 11:19 PM
As a Nobushi main I'm happy she isn't just low tier, but at the same time her unlock tech is dirty. Kensei however should be mid tier with the amount of armor he gets on swings, if his openers arent parried he just trades hits and his feinting is still one of the best next to zerker. And his Overhead unblockable that can be turned into an armored side heavy can also be feinted into a grab,light or a heavy so in this instance Kensei can feint his attack twice in a row to catch players offguard. But most Kensei's i see don't even feint but still this is the potiental of Kensei, just sucks that he's been low tier since the game's release.

Yeah I personally never thought of her as bad. the stuff she can do with her hidden stance is great. her zone even when used without unlocked is strong as heck. and she can have zero recovery on her dodge attacks. Her kit is great. She just doesn't have a really good way to open someone who mostly blocks. But yeah. Her unlock tech puts her above everyone on a competitive level. and I just explained why I think highly of her on my personal tier list.

Kensei is much in the same boat. But I feel he's lower than her. Maybe it's because I haven't really played him or fought a competent kensei though.

Knight_Raime
08-22-2017, 11:22 PM
Idk what most people think is really bad about Centurrion. but here is my opninion (ignore the double letters that come out sometimes, my KB is being stupid lately)

His wall combo;
I know that you count the list without the gimmicks but this is the thing people are, justifyingly, mad about. It takes a ton of health off of you without escape opportunities.

IMO, this is truly the only thing that bothers me. in 1v1 he is easy to counter with a good assortment of classes. Ofcourse, it is about your ability to react and knowledge of that class wether you succeed. I guess quite a few are not able to.

His pins:

This is THE main problem I have with the class but only in 4v4. and only a tad bit in 1v1.

He has plenty of ways to get you out of stam and even knock you on the ground with stam. Ganking used to be fine aand could be countered. But with him as one of the gankers you are just completely, dare I say, ****ed. charged heavy, Charged jab (and then to prolong it, ground pin which puts you practically in a cutscene). These attacks and abilities makes him the ultimate, rage inducing, nemesis of any 4v4 mode. Most of the time dodging won't go well either because the other folk that gank you will just grab you and you have no way to get out of that.

Yeah I can parry before he does the charged heavy with then again, I have another guy to worry about. (and laately indicators don't always show up which makes it REALLY hard to counter anything).

Maybe they should just make it so that if you get hit while being stabbed on the grround that you get up immediately? idk.

Anyways. this is the issue with Cent. 1v1 he is okay, and can be a hard matchup for plenty of people. But in 4v4 he reigns king of the gankers.

I can't really comment on 4v4 because I don't really play it. I used to play a good amount of it in the first month or so of the games launch. But I wasn't happy with how 4v4 played and i'm still really not (though I admit it's getting better) so i've been in 1v1 most of for honor's life span.

I agree that he has a lot of "options" and that alone makes centurion frustrating to deal with in any mode. That's why in one of my threads I suggested a handful of nerfs and a few slight buffs in order to make him easier to understand and less punishing overall.