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View Full Version : Roll back the Warden nerfs...



Kaijudub
08-21-2017, 12:09 PM
If warden is to remain even slightly viable against the new classes in the game he needs his nerfs rolled back. His easily punishable one dimensional play style in comparison to the Gladiator for example is painful.

Discuss.

Dude_of_Valor
08-21-2017, 12:21 PM
If warden is to remain even slightly viable against the new classes in the game he needs his nerfs rolled back. His easily punishable one dimensional play style in comparison to the Gladiator for example is painful.

Discuss.

What are you struggling with against the new classes as a Warden???

Kaijudub
08-21-2017, 12:28 PM
What are you struggling with against the new classes as a Warden???

Only the fact that Glad does everything a warden can do yet better and faster. Warden cancels sb to gb and people moan its op. Glad can cancel pretty much everything he does for days and still has stamina for weeks but it's fine.

Wardens mix up in anything but low level play is non-existent, he was over nerfed and now is no fun to play and not remotely competitive, not that he ever really was.

Dude_of_Valor
08-21-2017, 12:41 PM
Only the fact that Glad does everything a warden can do yet better and faster. Warden cancels sb to gb and people moan its op. Glad can cancel pretty much everything he does for days and still has stamina for weeks but it's fine.

Wardens mix up in anything but low level play is non-existent, he was over nerfed and now is no fun to play and not remotely competitive, not that he ever really was.

I agree the Warden has little official mix-ups, but then so do many of the vanilla classes compared to the new.

As for the Gladiator I have beaten most by either using top light a lot, or keeping distance. Also if they seem to use the toe poke a lot, dodge back then go straight into a SB into a double side light.

Overall until more kit is added to a Warden, you will need to come up with your own mix-ups, and not be predictable with him (e.g. feint a heavy then dodge sideways into a SB into a double light. Regather stamina and do that again but throw a zone this time or even dodge into SB into GB).

Kaijudub
08-21-2017, 12:44 PM
I agree the Warden has little official mix-ups, but then so do many of the vanilla classes compared to the new.

As for the Gladiator I have beaten most by either using top light a lot, or keeping distance. Also if they seem to use the toe poke a lot, dodge back then go straight into a SB into a double side light.

Overall until more kit is added to a Warden, you will need to come up with your own mix-ups, and not be predictable with him (e.g. feint a heavy then dodge sideways into a SB into a double light. Regather stamina and do that again but throw a zone this time or even dodge into SB into GB).

I'm not asking for tips to beat a completely OP character, but thanks for the consideration.

Vasher.
08-21-2017, 01:26 PM
I'm not asking for tips to beat a completely OP character, but thanks for the consideration.

You're here talking about an OP character...I can beat Gladiators far easier than I can against Cent (especially in Dominion / 4v4). Everyone jumps on the OP bandwagon with new Heroes yet forget the worst of all...Centurion. If Gladiator hits you once...you don't lose half your life (or more) in an animation. Sorry, both new Heroes are fine where they are. Worry about the more pressing matter.

Tundra 793
08-21-2017, 01:38 PM
If warden is to remain even slightly viable against the new classes.

You say new "classes", plural. You've outlined why you think the Warden is inferior to the Gladiator, but what do you struggle with against the Highlander?

CoyoteXStarrk
08-21-2017, 01:50 PM
If Warden were EVER to return to spamming crap-pile he was before then the playerbase would shrivel more than it already has.


Anyone who is even PARTIALLY capable of using the Warden can still WRECK with him.

Kaijudub
08-21-2017, 01:53 PM
You say new "classes", plural. You've outlined why you think the Warden is inferior to the Gladiator, but what do you struggle with against the Highlander?

I actually mean against the 4 new characters. Admittedly Highlander isn't actually that much of an issue. Although compared to warden his mix up game is far more interesting and is probably the character i will try and use before I give up. I also agree that all the vanilla characters are lacking but i've only played warden (rep32) so i can't comment on the game play of others.

my last sentance how ever should tell you all you need to know about warden.

"Wardens mix up in anything but low level play is non-existent, he was over nerfed and now is no fun to play and not remotely competitive, not that he ever really was."

IF you speak to any of the high level players, and i mean ANY they will agree that warden was never OP in the first place. Oh other than Tru3talent, who's crying probably helped to get the warden nerf.

Kaijudub
08-21-2017, 01:54 PM
If Warden were EVER to return to spamming crap-pile he was before then the playerbase would shrivel more than it already has.


Anyone who is even PARTIALLY capable of using the Warden can still WRECK with him.

lol cool story bro.

MemoireStar
08-21-2017, 02:58 PM
It's true warden has to be more creative now, but I think he is nowhere near weak. Yea he can't keep you in his vortex until you are dead anymore, but was that necessary?
I've only started playing warden occasionally this patch (playing since launch) but I think he is in a good spot right now.

Don't rely on shoulder bash too much, work with your environment (dayum that top heavy damage) and utilize crushing counterstrike. When I'm playing warden (not even rep1 yet) I just do what I see other Wardens do well with, and it works quite well for me.

If you're struggling so much against gladiator, try getting a feeling for parrying his light attacks. After a while they get so predictable and you get a free top heavy by parrying those.

Kaijudub
08-21-2017, 03:12 PM
It's true warden has to be more creative now, but I think he is nowhere near weak. Yea he can't keep you in his vortex until you are dead anymore, but was that necessary?
I've only started playing warden occasionally this patch (playing since launch) but I think he is in a good spot right now.

Don't rely on shoulder bash too much, work with your environment (dayum that top heavy damage) and utilize crushing counterstrike. When I'm playing warden (not even rep1 yet) I just do what I see other Wardens do well with, and it works quite well for me.

If you're struggling so much against gladiator, try getting a feeling for parrying his light attacks. After a while they get so predictable and you get a free top heavy by parrying those.

Again not a "how do i beat" thread. I'm very versed with the warden, probably in a better place to speak about the warden than most here since he's my only character and is rep33.

I'm also on PS4 where parrying raw lights isn't a thing, sure parrying the second light is easy but in high level play people don't do light chains. You also say use the crushing counter, again no problem in low level play where people attack wardens from top, but you realise that is also out of my control.

So basically the warden is now someone who has to frame beat you with top light, or wait for you to top attack so i can CC you. YUP REALLY STRONG!!! The only chance for him to mix up at all has gone, hell even trying to get into a vortex mix up in high level is pointless.

You lot really do make me laugh, gg.

S0Mi_xD
08-21-2017, 03:43 PM
I do understand your struggel.

But the new heroes are not OP, some of them are just abit Overbalanced.( Gladiatior and Centurion)

The problem here is, most of the vanilla heroes don't have much moves in their kit - thats why they seem abit off in relation to the new heroes, who got tons of abiliies and possibilities of mix ups.

Edit: But rolling back the nerfs isn't a good option.
The nerfs did a great job in balancing SB

T_Sesh
08-21-2017, 04:26 PM
The problem with Warden previously is that he could SB to GB on reaction based on what you did - that was way too powerful. Now it is closer to an actual 50/50 where you both have to guess, or the guy being SB'd has to roll back and eat a bunch of stamina. That said, the matchup with assassin's (now including Glad) has usually been poor because they can immediately dodge attack and to defeat both the GB attempt and the SB. In those cases you can SB cancel into parry, but Glad has a side dodge punch, so you'll need to SB cancel, dodge, then SB them as a counter.

The Warden has the most basic kit in the game, though I still think its quite powerful. Use the SB as a more of a counter instead of opener and it becomes quite powerful against low health assassins like the gladiator. Also, Gladiator is a very light attack intensive character - parry any of those lights has a Warden and you get a free top heavy that melts assassins.

kweassa1
08-21-2017, 08:01 PM
Why don't the op provide us with a vid of him fighting this 'op gladiator' first.

After 5 months of bullshi* from inept people, its getting a moot point to comment on these sort of whiney posts without establishing a baseline on just what level of combat/skill we're talking about here.



So give us a vid of this "op gladiator" you see on a daily basis first, Kaijidub, then we'll talk.

If you are so confident that you're managing your warden reasonably well, and yet the pure performance/spec of the gladiator is so overpowering that you have no way of fighting back, then I'm guessing you'll have no problems showing us the actual fight, so we can all see.


Otherwise, stop whining and L2P.

brashtralas
08-21-2017, 08:33 PM
Please don't roll back the nerfs, just add more to his kit. And get rid of the sb cancel while you're at it. I play warden often, by the way.

Kaijudub
08-21-2017, 08:41 PM
Why don't the op provide us with a vid of him fighting this 'op gladiator' first.

After 5 months of bullshi* from inept people, its getting a moot point to comment on these sort of whiney posts without establishing a baseline on just what level of combat/skill we're talking about here.



So give us a vid of this "op gladiator" you see on a daily basis first, Kaijidub, then we'll talk.

If you are so confident that you're managing your warden reasonably well, and yet the pure performance/spec of the gladiator is so overpowering that you have no way of fighting back, then I'm guessing you'll have no problems showing us the actual fight, so we can all see.


Otherwise, stop whining and L2P.

This is why you only see 4 - 5 people posting on this forum anymore. Just reading your replies is a "moot point".
You want video evidence of every gladiator I'm going to fight... lol. When did i say daily basis?? Anyone with any idea of this game says Gladiator is OP. Anyone also with an ounce of skill in this game also agrees the warden was never op.

GG

The simple fact of the matter is warden is no longer viable, if you find yourself getting steam rollered by wardens then maybe its you that needs to learn to play.

Antonioj26
08-21-2017, 08:57 PM
This is why you only see 4 - 5 people posting on this forum anymore. Just reading your replies is a "moot point".
You want video evidence of every gladiator I'm going to fight... lol. When did i say daily basis?? Anyone with any idea of this game says Gladiator is OP. Anyone also with an ounce of skill in this game also agrees the warden was never op.

GG

The simple fact of the matter is warden is no longer viable, if you find yourself getting steam rollered by wardens then maybe its you that needs to learn to play.

It's still too early to tell if gladiator is OP I have barely seen anyone let alone anyone competitive say that it's mostly the same people who have knee jerk reactions and complain about everything. Warden consistently did well before the tournies before the nerf and still had a good showing back before the raider charge buff. I stopped watching after that because it got boring but for all I know he still could be highly represented. How shoulder bash could be looked at as anything but overpowered prenerf by anyone is absurd. It could be initiated at anytime, had fast recovery, low stam cost, and you could react to a preemptive dodge.

kweassa1
08-21-2017, 09:39 PM
This is why you only see 4 - 5 people posting on this forum anymore. Just reading your replies is a "moot point".
You want video evidence of every gladiator I'm going to fight... lol. When did i say daily basis?? Anyone with any idea of this game says Gladiator is OP. Anyone also with an ounce of skill in this game also agrees the warden was never op.

Sounds like a lot of excuse that goes, "oh gee, what if people find out i'm not all that good and say that I need to L2P?" If you're so sure that the gladiator's OP without a doubt, what's the harm in it?



The simple fact of the matter is warden is no longer viable, if you find yourself getting steam rollered by wardens then maybe its you that needs to learn to play.

Not really. It's only a "fact" in your head, which means "delusion" at this stage. Need verification of whether your troubles with the warden are your own fault, or really something about the gladiator being OP.

Want to disprove me, simple -- provide how you play against those "OP gladiators" so we can rule out that its your fault, and there's actually something wrong with glads. Without factual proof, all we've got is your word and I find it hard to believe.

GrimBlitzer
08-21-2017, 09:45 PM
I have had no personal issues with the new heroes as a warden, and I say that as a warden main.

SerrowvonHerow
08-21-2017, 10:04 PM
Not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone here, but it's worth noting that at the moment Gladiator is being ranked as the second best hero in the game right after PK, at least according to the competitive side of the community.

Kaijudub
08-22-2017, 02:17 PM
Not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone here, but it's worth noting that at the moment Gladiator is being ranked as the second best hero in the game right after PK, at least according to the competitive side of the community.

Exactly this.

I'm talking from a wardens point of view here, and i'm not really interested in talking about skill, but perhaps should mention my experience is console related.

Warden back dash recovery leaves him extremely suspect to any kind of cancel mix up if you try to dodge in combat with glad. If you manage to get a spammy Glad out of stam his back dash game is rediculous to the point a warden might as well just stand there. Glad zone beats my zone, glads zone beats my gb start up. Its already hard to react to raw lights on console but even a cancel sb to block the side dodge only works 50% of the time.

Oh and then they just dodge and dash away..

I block a dashed light or dodged side light and am out of range for that free GB i'm meant to get.... Honestly whats the point?

I mean i could play totally safe and only react to the glads moveset, but whats the fun if i guess the mixup only to not be able to react to it?

Why do we always have to resort to assuming people have no skill when they offer feedback, especially when its warden related...?

Kaijudub
08-22-2017, 02:20 PM
Sounds like a lot of excuse that goes, "oh gee, what if people find out i'm not all that good and say that I need to L2P?" If you're so sure that the gladiator's OP without a doubt, what's the harm in it?




Not really. It's only a "fact" in your head, which means "delusion" at this stage. Need verification of whether your troubles with the warden are your own fault, or really something about the gladiator being OP.

Want to disprove me, simple -- provide how you play against those "OP gladiators" so we can rule out that its your fault, and there's actually something wrong with glads. Without factual proof, all we've got is your word and I find it hard to believe.

wow what has the internet done to you to make you so angry?

The competitive community... i.e people of far higher skill than both you and I, find him to be OP. Ask them to explain it to you if you don't want to listen to me.

x_Ashura_Zero
08-23-2017, 01:08 PM
Everyone starts as Warden, and many people stay with him. For these people, what's the incentive buying the season pass to get access to new characters, when they're fine just playing the Warden? Ubi's nerfs give you that incentive... at least from a marketing standpoint that's how I see it.

A more optimistic way of looking at it is, Ubi wants to encourage a more diverse player base, get the Warden mainers to step out of their comfort zone by making him less desirable and try a new player. But from a Warden mainers point of view, this is disappointing as he is limited when you start getting into high level play.

(On a side note, it was pretty annoying dragging my eyes across your "advice"on how to win" posts, thanks but no one ever asked for help here)

Kaijudub
08-23-2017, 01:15 PM
Everyone starts as Warden, and many people stay with him. For these people, what's the incentive buying the season pass to get access to new characters, when they're fine just playing the Warden? Ubi's nerfs give you that incentive... at least from a marketing standpoint that's how I see it.

A more optimistic way of looking at it is, Ubi wants to encourage a more diverse player base, get the Warden mainers to step out of their comfort zone by making him less desirable and try a new player. But from a Warden mainers point of view, this is disappointing as he is limited when you start getting into high level play.

(On a side note, it was pretty annoying dragging my eyes across your "advice"on how to win" posts, thanks but no one ever asked for help here)

Thats the problem with this place, people like to think you need help rather than you being in a place to actually offer some factual issues with a character I've spent 30 days of play time using. I mean 30 days of play time means nothing right??

The fact that Warden still destroys the people commenting on this thread is a more relevant indicator of skill level on this forum.

I knida agree to some point that perhaps ubi wanted people to try other toons but i have no want to play as other people, I like sword wielding knights. Wheres my incentive to become uber knight dude?

I will scream it until blue in the face if i have to, WARDEN IS NOT VIABLE IN HIGH LEVEL PLAY, NEVER WAS AND IS INFINITELY WORSE NOW.

x_Ashura_Zero
08-23-2017, 01:25 PM
Sounds like a lot of excuse that goes, "oh gee, what if people find out i'm not all that good and say that I need to L2P?" If you're so sure that the gladiator's OP without a doubt, what's the harm in it?

Not really. It's only a "fact" in your head, which means "delusion" at this stage. Need verification of whether your troubles with the warden are your own fault, or really something about the gladiator being OP.

Want to disprove me, simple -- provide how you play against those "OP gladiators" so we can rule out that its your fault, and there's actually something wrong with glads. Without factual proof, all we've got is your word and I find it hard to believe.


Stop trying to create drama where none exists. This topic was created to express dissatisfaction with the Warden's nerfs and encourage discussion, Glad being OP was an example. Whether or not Kaijudub is a good player or not is irrelevant, go read the first post it says discuss.

Shakti.
08-23-2017, 01:25 PM
Dunno man. I personally don't play warden much but it seems to me that is a good class, with a nice amount of options.
Surely thrtr ar quality of life changes that could be made to improve the gameplay of it but before the shoulder bash stamina nerf Warden was a Joke class.
What do you feel is needed to make it a better choice? Cause compared to Kensei, orochi, zerk and cq the Warden is very very strog.

Kaijudub
08-23-2017, 01:30 PM
Dunno man. I personally don't play warden much but it seems to me that is a good class, with a nice amount of options.
Surely thrtr ar quality of life changes that could be made to improve the gameplay of it but before the shoulder bash stamina nerf Warden was a Joke class.
What do you feel is needed to make it a better choice? Cause compared to Kensei, orochi, zerk and cq the Warden is very very strog.

No offence but the nerf was so much more than just a stam nerf. Do you watch Tru3talent by any chance??

Considering the competitive community see warden as worse than Orochi, i'm not really sure where you're coming from tbh. In high level play Wardens SB is non existant, and the rest of his moves are totally telegraphed.

Even if they just extended his SB cancel window it would offer a bit more flexibility in his mix up games. But when compared to someone like GLAD or CENT that can mix up into their mixups and then cancel into some more mixups the warden has no mixup ability. Coupled with peoples ability to simply dodge the SB, i honestly think the SB cancel should be reintroduced.

Keep his stamina nerfs and everything else but let us be able to react to people, rather than being in our own 50/50 game constantly. And don't get me started on his OOS punish against assasins.

x_Ashura_Zero
08-23-2017, 01:31 PM
I knida agree to some point that perhaps ubi wanted people to try other toons but i have no want to play as other people, I like sword wielding knights. Wheres my incentive to become uber knight dude?

I get exactly what you mean, it's not really about skill at all, it's about playing the character you like. Take Destiny for example, I only bought that game for the Bladedancer and when they nerfed that class, I stopped playing. That has come with the advent of online games, everythings cool and then they patch the **** out of it until it's unplayable or just no longer fun.

Kaijudub
08-23-2017, 01:36 PM
I get exactly what you mean, it's not really about skill at all, it's about playing the character you like. Take Destiny for example, I only bought that game for the Bladedancer and when they nerfed that class, I stopped playing. That has come with the advent of online games, everythings cool and then they patch the **** out of it until it's unplayable or just no longer fun.

Yeah its kinda like getting good with ryu or ken in SF, and then capcom decide the fireball move isn't allowed anymore.

feelsbad

S0Mi_xD
08-23-2017, 01:43 PM
I will scream it until blue in the face if i have to, WARDEN IS NOT VIABLE IN HIGH LEVEL PLAY, NEVER WAS AND IS INFINITELY WORSE NOW.

Looks like you are the only one who thinks so

Kaijudub
08-23-2017, 01:46 PM
Looks like you are the only one who thinks so

Other than the fact i'm not, but 4/10 for effort dude. GG

Specialkha
08-23-2017, 02:09 PM
Unplayable in high level play? You mean high level play with unlock exploit and charge abuse, etc...? Or legit play? In case of legit play, like the game is supposed to be played, he is viable.

Kaijudub
08-23-2017, 02:21 PM
Unplayable in high level play? You mean high level play with unlock exploit and charge abuse, etc...? Or legit play? In case of legit play, like the game is supposed to be played, he is viable.

Other than he isn't and hasn't been pre nerf or now. Highlighted by his lack of any tournament placings. IN LOW LEVEL PLAY HE CAN DESTROY YOU, just like any other character can.

I've told you how he isn't viable in high level play, how about you tell me otherwise. I know it's easier to just sit there and say "durrrr he is viable" but you're not adding to the discussion.

S0Mi_xD
08-23-2017, 02:25 PM
Dude, look the "fact" is that warden was viable befor all those "nerfs" and is still viable.
His ridiculous mindgames with SB are gone - he is BALANCED and still strong.

The only negative aspect is, if you compare most vanilla heroes to the new heroes, they don't have much variaty in their toolkit.

And also, "looks like you are the only one who thinks so" is not literaly meant, it's more like - people like you who think a viable hero is not viable (especially if they main them) are a minority...
Your thread/opinion about the warden is pretty much biased, just because you are, i don't know to "stupid" to learn fighting the new heroes or just to lazy to adapt.

There is nothing to discuss here, it's pure salt.


I'll take another example.
Me, i am a Berserker Main since the beginning.
Nobody, who understands the game says that Berserker is a top tier Hero.
Most people don't pay attention to him.
Tournaments ? Never saw a Berserker on top.

I do suggested many things about Berserker in here, Bugfixes, tweaks to make abilities work like they should.
I say, that Berserker is in a pretty low tier, but i would never say he is not viable.
I still wreck good players, but not because i cry out my feedback und suggestions in the forum, but because i try to make the best out of his kit.

I also learned to play EVERY hero (except LB), and currently, as long you can block, dodge, parry, GB and CGB, you can beat every hero with every hero.

...
Thanks for the GG, at least i can score 4/10 - but can't say same about you ^^

Specialkha
08-23-2017, 02:28 PM
Again, which high level play are you talking about? Tournaments have been dominated by cheese tactics (charge, unlock, etc...) and the cheese from warden (SB spam mostly) is weaker than those from Raider or WL.

And ultimately, I hope we will see that kind of "High level" play disappear from For Honor.

So again, what are you talking about? In the case of legit high level play (without exploit or cheese), he is viable.

S0Mi_xD
08-23-2017, 02:32 PM
Other than he isn't and hasn't been pre nerf or now. Highlighted by his lack of any tournament placings. IN LOW LEVEL PLAY HE CAN DESTROY YOU, just like any other character can.

I've told you how he isn't viable in high level play, how about you tell me otherwise. I know it's easier to just sit there and say "durrrr he is viable" but you're not adding to the discussion.

Explain to my, why is the warden NOT viable?

Because he has a pretty solid Melee attack, which can be feinted into a GB, not fully charged grants good dmg on hit, fully charged has hyperarmor and grants a heavy.
Because he has a fast top light and double light to the sides, also a counter attack on top light.
Can chain his SB from a light attack ?
A fast zone?

He is pretty solid, even if he hasn't that much but that is in vanilla hero problem in general.

Sure he has some drawbacks but every hero has them.

Kaijudub
08-23-2017, 02:33 PM
Dude, look the "fact" is that warden was viable befor all those "nerfs" and is still viable.
His ridiculous mindgames with SB are gone - he is BALANCED and still strong.

The only negative aspect is, if you compare most vanilla heroes to the new heroes, they don't have much variaty in their toolkit.

And also, "looks like you are the only one who thinks so" is not literaly meant, it's more like - people like you who think a viable hero is not viable (especially if they main them) are a minority...
Your thread/opinion about the warden is pretty much biased, just because you are, i don't know to "stupid" to learn fighting the new heroes or just to lazy to adapt.

There is nothing to discuss here, it's pure salt.


I'll take another example.
Me, i am a Berserker Main since the beginning.
Nobody, who understands the game says that Berserker is a top tier Hero.
Most people don't pay attention to him.
Tournaments ? Never saw a Berserker on top.

I do suggested many things about Berserker in here, Bugfixes, tweaks to make abilities work like they should.
I say, that Berserker is in a pretty low tier, but i would never say he is not viable.
I still wreck good players, but not because i cry out my feedback und suggestions in the forum, but because i try to make the best out of his kit.

I also learned to play EVERY hero (except LB), and currently, as long you can block, dodge, parry, GB and CGB, you can beat every hero with every hero.

...
Thanks for the GG, at least i can score 4/10 - but can't say same about you ^^


See i was reading until the "too stupid to learn" comment. Was that really needed?

I'm here wanting to discuss warden because it's all i know, i'm rep33 and have played pvp to get to my rep. I care very little if you think i'm good or not as a player, thats not my point here.

So can you tell me exactly how the warden has ALWAYS been viable in Highlevel play? I see a lot of warden hate here and not a lot of constructive factual speak. Your opinion that warden is strong doesn't make it fact. Speak to anyone in the competitive realm and they will tell you other wise. Other than Tru3 " i hate wardens " talent.

Antonioj26
08-23-2017, 02:37 PM
Explain to my, why is the warden NOT viable?

Because he has a pretty solid Melee attack, which can be feinted into a GB, not fully charged grants good dmg on hit, fully charged has hyperarmor and grants a heavy.
Because he has a fast top light and double light to the sides, also a counter attack on top light.
Can chain his SB from a light attack ?
A fast zone?

He is pretty solid, even if he hasn't that much but that is in vanilla hero problem in general.

Sure he has some drawbacks but every hero has them.

No point somi. He's too thick headed to understand he's limited by his own ability and not his character. This man is so unreasonable that when he was afk banned for sending a message to a player he demanded Ubisoft not punish him for having a pleasant conversation and that it wasn't his problem if they couldn't figure out that he was sending a message to his opponent. Just a very dumb individual to be quite honest but it's hilarious to watch him continuously step on rakes, I'll tell you that much.

Kaijudub
08-23-2017, 02:37 PM
Explain to my, why is the warden NOT viable?

Because he has a pretty solid Melee attack, which can be feinted into a GB, not fully charged grants good dmg on hit, fully charged has hyperarmor and grants a heavy.
Because he has a fast top light and double light to the sides, also a counter attack on top light.
Can chain his SB from a light attack ?
A fast zone?

He is pretty solid, even if he hasn't that much but that is in vanilla hero problem in general.

Sure he has some drawbacks but every hero has them.

whats the point of you being here if you're not going to read my posts and just comment on the fact you think you know best?

Every single thing you have listed as good isn't viable in high level play, other than top light as a frame beating tool. Side lights are slow and parryable, sb from neutral is VERY easy to read and the new cancel window on the SB actually makes it readable by the opponent. CC requires someone to attack from top and in highlevel play you don't attack wardens from top stance. This is without even talking about his stamina nerf, his sb cancel recovery nerf, his poor back dashing and general sluggishness.

But cool you keep looking at those 4 moves in his moveset and claim he's viable.

Get back at me once he's placing in tournemants,

Kaijudub
08-23-2017, 02:39 PM
No point somi. He's too thick headed to understand he's limited by his own ability and not his character. This man is so unreasonable that when he was afk banned for sending a message to a player he demanded Ubisoft not punish him for having a pleasant conversation and that it wasn't his problem if they couldn't figure out that he was sending a message to his opponent. Just a very dumb individual to be quite honest but it's hilarious to watch him continuously step on rakes, I'll tell you that much.

oh just do everyone a favour and shut up you cheat.

STOP DERAILING THREADS

Antonioj26
08-23-2017, 02:40 PM
oh just do everyone a favour and shut up.

You first.

Specialkha
08-23-2017, 02:42 PM
Why do you want warden to be first in tournaments when they have been all dominated by cheese and exploits?

Kaijudub
08-23-2017, 02:48 PM
Why do you want warden to be first in tournaments when they have been all dominated by cheese and exploits?


Is that really all you can comment on after that? You take my only flippant comment in my post want it answered lol?

Fact of the matter is warden hasn't ever placed in tournies, pre nerf or post nerf.

Antonioj26
08-23-2017, 02:52 PM
Is that really all you can comment on after that? You take my only flippant comment in my post want it answered lol?

Fact of the matter is warden hasn't ever placed in tournies, pre nerf or post nerf.

Depends on what you mean by placed. If you mean win, I can't say for sure but if you mean top 5 your wrong. Iskys and extheleon consistently did well in tournies and I'm almost positive iskys won at least 1

Kaijudub
08-23-2017, 02:55 PM
Depends on what you mean by placed. If you mean win, I can't say for sure but if you mean top 5 your wrong. Iskys and extheleon consistently did well in tournies and I'm almost positive iskys won at least 1

Iskys won a 2v2 tournament, partly using zerk. He's never placed higher than top 4 and consistantly doesnt place. In the recent tournament there were no wardens, exthleon never finished higer than 4th pre nerf and has stopped playing because Warden isn't viable, Playfiendss has swtiched to Glad because he isn't viable. Setmyx has started playing with other toons because he's not viable. Creature no longer uses warden as he's not viable, i could go on but it won't matter to you.

I mean i definitely respect your opinion more than these guys.... oh wait, kappa.

Antonioj26
08-23-2017, 03:08 PM
Iskys won a 2v2 tournament, partly using zerk. He's never placed higher than top 4 and consistantly doesnt place. In the recent tournament there were no wardens, exthleon never finished higer than 4th pre nerf and has stopped playing because Warden isn't viable, Playfiendss has swtiched to Glad because he isn't viable. Setmyx has started playing with other toons because he's not viable. Creature no longer uses warden as he's not viable, i could go on but it won't matter to you.

I mean i definitely respect your opinion more than these guys.... oh wait, kappa.

I'm not arguing that he's viable now you said never and I'm saying that's wrong. Exthelion got 2nd in a tourney you can even find it on YouTube. When I have the free time to find more tourney results I'll show you that warden was overrepresented at tournies.

Kaijudub
08-23-2017, 03:12 PM
I'm not arguing that he's viable now you said never and I'm saying that's wrong. Exthelion got 2nd in a tourney you can even find it on YouTube. You just said iskys placed 4th so you contradicted yourself in saying a warden had never placed or never has been viable. When I have the free time to find more tourney results I'll show you that warden was overrepresented at tournies.

So the fact warden was over rep'd but consistantly placed lowly doesnt mean anything to you? Lol.

Sky's had one 4th place, and a 2v2 win... out of countless tournies, how does that make him viable??? Do you just gloss over my posts so you can find something to pick at? Ex's 2nd was in a minor tournament with no weight behind it. I mean you can keep picking at my comments but you know deep down i'm right, you just love to argue.

The fact still remains that alot of great warden mains don't play the character anymore, because he was never viable, and now he's just a mess.

Antonioj26
08-23-2017, 03:16 PM
So the fact warden was over rep'd but consistantly placed lowly doesnt mean anything to you? Lol.

Sky's had one 4th place, How does that make him viable??? Do you just gloss over my posts so you can find something to pick at? Ex's 2nd was in a minor tournament with no weight behind it. I mean you can keep picking at my comments but you know deep down i'm right, you just love to argue.

The fact still remains that alot of great warden mains don't play the character anymore, because he was never viable, and now he's just a mess.

Why would so many people pick him if he wasn't viable? That makes no sense, if you stuck to the argument that he's not viable now then you would have a ton more weight and would even agree with you but there are like 5 characters that are viable now so what else is new?

Kaijudub
08-23-2017, 03:20 PM
Why would so many people pick him if he wasn't viable? That makes no sense, if you stuck to the argument that he's not viable now then you would have a ton more weight and would even agree with you but there are like 5 characters that are viable now so what else is new?

People pick him because people like playing as knights and he's down as an easy character, one would imagine. That does not make him a viable pick.

I've always said against noobs, he will stomp like the best of them. But once you get yourself in a situation where the sb is a non plus (because it really is reactable) there is litterally nothing you can do but go reactive and then get hate mail calling you a "Top light spamming turtle".

I have no beef with you Antonio, i just want my main to feel fun to use again. Why is that such a hard thing to swallow?

S0Mi_xD
08-23-2017, 03:29 PM
Kaijudub... you don't know yourself what you want for warden ...

Explain me what is viable in "high lvl", you say nothing that warden can is viable in "high lvl" so most heroes wouldn't have abilities which are viable in "high lvl"

Also you say, you just wanna have fun again with using Warden, but you say "warden was never viable and isn't now" in other words you never had fun with him?

How do you define having fun, being viable?
Your "discussion" looks more like, you are just bored in generall ^^

Everything you say here, is pointless.

Antonioj26
08-23-2017, 03:32 PM
People pick him because people like playing as knights and he's down as an easy character, one would imagine. That does not make him a viable pick.

I've always said against noobs, he will stomp like the best of them. But once you get yourself in a situation where the sb is a non plus (because it really is reactable) there is litterally nothing you can do but go reactive and then get hate mail calling you a "Top light spamming turtle".

I have no beef with you Antonio, i just want my main to feel fun to use again. Why is that such a hard thing to swallow?

I have beef with you though, there's been a couple times where I've put my hand out there to let bye gones be bye gones only for you to spit in my face and accuse me of being a cheater with no evidence to back it up. I get that you want your character to be fun again, and can even sympathasize with you since I constantly get bored of who I'm playing and switch to someone else, but you are acting like he's the bottom of the barrell.

Reactablr for some, just those that can get the timing of the 300ms gap of when it can't be cancelled anymore and it connects, which is even more difficult on console. I bet if you fought 100 different players you wouldn't be able to find more than 10 who can consistently counter SB on reaction solely and not on reads. I'll offer once more to end our pointless feud but it will be the last time. I prefer to have actual discussions rather flinging crap at eachother

x_Ashura_Zero
08-23-2017, 03:34 PM
Kaijudub... you don't know yourself what you want for warden ...

Explain me what is viable in "high lvl", you say nothing that warden can is viable in "high lvl" so most heroes wouldn't have abilities which are viable in "high lvl"

Also you say, you just wanna have fun again with using Warden, but you say "warden was never viable and isn't now" in other words you never had fun with him?

How do you define having fun, being viable?
Your "discussion" looks more like, you are just bored in generall ^^

Everything you say here, is pointless.

I tend to agree, in your first post you were saying he was partially viable pre-patch and now he's not. Now you're saying he was never viable and still isn't? I'm confused lol you're contradicting yourself

Kaijudub
08-23-2017, 04:40 PM
I tend to agree, in your first post you were saying he was partially viable pre-patch and now he's not. Now you're saying he was never viable and still isn't? I'm confused lol you're contradicting yourself

Sorry when i say viable i mean he was a noob stomper, so initially he was fun. I mean we all started off as noobs and he is a noob stomper, as are half the characters. The more you get into the game you realise he isn't quite the OP GAWDLIKE BAWS that everyone makes him out to be, you then start finding and facing high level competitors and your realisation is hammered home.

You still win the odd round which keeps him fun, and then the nerf happens. It changes the character negatively, and makes those few wins really hard to get. Because decent people knew how to deal with Warden v1, Warden V2 is a piece of cake. IF i match a noob it's still as viable, i dont dispute that. But being top 10% duels wise i don't match noobs very often, much to antonios dis belief.

I'm pretty sure i've already said this but what the hell, i'll type it again.

HE WAS ALWAYS VIABLE IN LOW LEVEL PLAY, HE'S NEVER BEEN VIABLE IN HIGH LEVEL PLAY.

Hope that makes sense.

That_guy44
08-23-2017, 04:56 PM
Except Rikuto and Ravelord both used Warden in the PS4 hero series finals so.....

Specialkha
08-23-2017, 05:12 PM
Sorry when i say viable i mean he was a noob stomper, so initially he was fun. I mean we all started off as noobs and he is a noob stomper, as are half the characters. The more you get into the game you realise he isn't quite the OP GAWDLIKE BAWS that everyone makes him out to be, you then start finding and facing high level competitors and your realisation is hammered home.

You still win the odd round which keeps him fun, and then the nerf happens. It changes the character negatively, and makes those few wins really hard to get. Because decent people knew how to deal with Warden v1, Warden V2 is a piece of cake. IF i match a noob it's still as viable, i dont dispute that. But being top 10% duels wise i don't match noobs very often, much to antonios dis belief.

I'm pretty sure i've already said this but what the hell, i'll type it again.

HE WAS ALWAYS VIABLE IN LOW LEVEL PLAY, HE'S NEVER BEEN VIABLE IN HIGH LEVEL PLAY.

Hope that makes sense.

But never viable against what? Cheese tactics? Then only 4-5 characters are viable (and warden was one of them wih SB spam). If we talk legit play, he is viable and is overall top tier.

UbiNoty
08-24-2017, 12:27 AM
I'm going to close this thread. While we are open to feedback about the Warden, I'll ask you to keep in mind that this is a public space for everyone and that we expect you all to treat each other civilly and to follow the forum rules (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1181763-Forum-Rules). Please limit discussion to constructive feedback and open-minded debate and refrain from insulting other community members. If you've crossed the lines of respectful discussion, consider this as a warning and if I see any further poor behavior you will be given an infraction.

Thanks