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D3dicatedSrv3rz
08-18-2017, 04:18 AM
Can we just stop with the unblockable spam for one F**KING second UBI. WTF. PK's deflect is akin to landing a light with a nobushi, orochi's is versatile but the second one is so telegraphed, Ber.'s get the GB for a free heavy but Gladiator, oh his inflicts bleed somehow more than PK or if there's a wall nearby, bleed and a free F***KING heavy. why. He has the only move dedicated to punishing exhausted opponents in the game, why. Hes fast, not PK pre-patch fast but fast and he can stamina punish, AND his stamina is "well managed", why. He has the only area that can't be block or parried, why. The only character that can dodge light AND dodge stamina drain, why. I thought assassins were left to open with attacks and speed not ******ed unblockables in addition to their speed or at least the vanilla ones were and many people would still argue they're OP. I thought the dev's would learn from Centurion and not mess with more stamina draining characters again, guess F**KING not. Another move dedicated to unbalancing characters, another move to lounging heavy, another parry follow up that in total drains 80% of most character's stamina, we don't have a kick but instead a punch in 3 directions, and the most versatile deflect in the game. It's obvious that from how you're STILL handling Centurion that you still don't understand the rules of your game so dare try to break them with brand new mechanics. WHY!


Is he counter-able, no s**t. but if people still cry when fighting my PK how is something with twice the effective arsenal and more stamina fair?

https://media2.giphy.com/media/Y3jYuzvSJdh7y/giphy.gif

Helnekromancer
08-18-2017, 04:36 AM
I could say the same thing for Highlander, just twirling around like a ballerina because he has super armor backing him up. People talk about how safe the Gladiator Zone is this guy can just spin whenever he feels like because he has super armor. Oh but once that ******** is done he now has a fast kick and unblockables yay, oh I'm out of stamina I already got them down to about 80-90% let me just sit and do it again because its just free damage. Why does this charcter have "Hard" next to it's name? This class is braindead, they said the same thing about Shinobi and look what happened double dash kick double dash kick double dash kick double dash kick.

SwellChemosabe
08-18-2017, 04:48 AM
And so the salt begins to pour out. Characters have been out for two days and the both of you are *****ing already about how OP they are. Try taking some time to learn how to fight against them/with them before you start crying. They're new, and they're different, that's the only "OP" thing about them so far.

D3dicatedSrv3rz
08-18-2017, 04:51 AM
I could say the same thing for Highlander, just twirling around like a ballerina because he has super armor backing him up. People talk about how safe the Gladiator Zone is this guy can just spin whenever he feels like because he has super armor. Oh but once that ******** is done he now has a fast kick and unblockables yay, oh I'm out of stamina I already got them down to about 80-90% let me just sit and do it again because its just free damage. Why does this charcter have "Hard" next to it's name? This class is braindead, they said the same thing about Shinobi and look what happened double dash kick double dash kick double dash kick double dash kick.

You can say that although i have found the Celtic curse feint twirl just as predictable as kensei's side step... stay in top guard and change if needed. He's labeled hard i suppose because the recovery from being punished is so huge compared to most heroes. Ive used the celtic curse feint and had a gladiator use his parry follow up and was instantly OOS

D3dicatedSrv3rz
08-18-2017, 04:53 AM
And so the salt begins to pour out. Characters have been out for two days and the both of you are *****ing already about how OP they are. Try taking some time to learn how to fight against them/with them before you start crying. They're new, and they're different, that's the only "OP" thing about them so far.

I have learned... and have dominated in duels. Could this be attributed to a different playstyle possibly, new annoying mechanics, probably.

SwellChemosabe
08-18-2017, 04:58 AM
Could this be attributed to a different playstyle possibly, new annoying mechanics, probably.

Exactly, New play style and new mechanics that nobody has completely learned yet. In fact, months from now there's still going to be things these characters can do that we're not aware of yet because no one has thought of whatever mix up/combo to incorporate. That's the case with all of the characters. I run into wardens that can still mix up in ways I've never seen before, and that hero's been here since day 1. Give it time, I promise you the Highlander and the Gladiator won't be as OP as you think they are a few weeks from now. And if either of them are getting nerfed, it will definitely be the gladiator, so you have nothing to worry about.

D3dicatedSrv3rz
08-18-2017, 05:03 AM
Exactly, New play style and new mechanics that nobody has completely learned yet. In fact, months from now there's still going to be things these characters can do that we're not aware of yet because no one has thought of whatever mix up/combo to incorporate. That's the case with all of the characters. I run into wardens that can still mix up in ways I've never seen before, and that hero's been here since day 1. Give it time, I promise you the Highlander and the Gladiator won't be as OP as you think they are a few weeks from now. And if either of them are getting nerfed, it will definitely be the gladiator, so you have nothing to worry about.

I view the situation as a matter of potential. PK gets fast attacks and bleeds. Gladiator get the same in addition to unblockables and stamina. I have a hard time finding the balance here

SwellChemosabe
08-18-2017, 05:09 AM
The unblockables can still be parried and in comparison to PK are immensely slower. Bleed ontop of Unblockable would be OP if it weren't for the fact that the speed is slow enough so that I can anticipate and dodge/parry those attacks. He's a tricky sum***** but he's not invincible and just because he's got a few unblockables doesn't make him special, he can be taken down just as easily, it's just a matter of learning his attacks and determining the most likely course of action an player will commit to based on how they approach you. Seems a bit extensive but this is how I manage most of my fights and it works most of the time. Just give it some time, pretty soon the hype on these characters will fade because everyone will learn exactly what to watch out for and how to counter these heroes with their mains.

D3dicatedSrv3rz
08-18-2017, 05:17 AM
Exactly, New play style and new mechanics that nobody has completely learned yet. In fact, months from now there's still going to be things these characters can do that we're not aware of yet because no one has thought of whatever mix up/combo to incorporate. That's the case with all of the characters. I run into wardens that can still mix up in ways I've never seen before, and that hero's been here since day 1. Give it time, I promise you the Highlander and the Gladiator won't be as OP as you think they are a few weeks from now. And if either of them are getting nerfed, it will definitely be the gladiator, so you have nothing to worry about.

On another note are you saying its fair for a noob to be able to do well with a new character than it is for adepts on vanilla heroes to punish him because, well

https://media1.giphy.com/media/h2OLfcSKKthRK/giphy.gif

SwellChemosabe
08-18-2017, 05:24 AM
I can see why you'd come to that conclusion based on what was said but contrary to that notion, no I don't think that's ok. Gladiator is, admittedly, too easy to pick up and master. I'm not saying it's ok but If a new player picked up that new character then of course he's going to do well because not everybody knows the move set yet as I already explained. Unless it becomes an issue like it did with centurion, who is still way too OP even after all of the legitimate complaints made over an entire season of gameplay, then the gladiator should be fine after a couple of weeks of practice. People still have to learn the moves, the combos, the mix ups and the feats which not everyone can just do because not everyone can play him just yet. It's been two days, a little over 50 hours, since their release. Frustrating as it is, to lose to something you have no idea how to fight right off the bat doesn't make it overpowered.

D3dicatedSrv3rz
08-18-2017, 05:32 AM
The unblockables can still be parried and in comparison to PK are immensely slower. Bleed ontop of Unblockable would be OP if it weren't for the fact that the speed is slow enough so that I can anticipate and dodge/parry those attacks. He's a tricky sum***** but he's not invincible and just because he's got a few unblockables doesn't make him special, he can be taken down just as easily, it's just a matter of learning his attacks and determining the most likely course of action an player will commit to based on how they approach you. Seems a bit extensive but this is how I manage most of my fights and it works most of the time. Just give it some time, pretty soon the hype on these characters will fade because everyone will learn exactly what to watch out for and how to counter these heroes with their mains.

The punches, the toe stomp and the area opener can't be parried and having (from what i count) 4 UB's when some heroes have 1 or none is excessive. The skewer is dodge-able but really ANOTHER lounging UB. heavy that may track. I not saying hes hard to deal with, dont think i lost to any when ive selected my PK but fighting him with characters that can't match his speed he's is a B**CH and i find myself always on the back-foot which would be fine if i wasn't using a rep 2 or 3 hero against someone who hasn't even past 10 ranks, not reps ranks, on the Gladiator and a total rep less than what i have on my PK alone.

D3dicatedSrv3rz
08-18-2017, 05:49 AM
I can see why you'd come to that conclusion based on what was said but contrary to that notion, no I don't think that's ok. Gladiator is, admittedly, too easy to pick up and master. I'm not saying it's ok but If a new player picked up that new character then of course he's going to do well because not everybody knows the move set yet as I already explained. Unless it becomes an issue like it did with centurion, who is still way too OP even after all of the legitimate complaints made over an entire season of gameplay, then the gladiator should be fine after a couple of weeks of practice. People still have to learn the moves, the combos, the mix ups and the feats which not everyone can just do because not everyone can play him just yet. It's been two days, a little over 50 hours, since their release. Frustrating as it is, to lose to something you have no idea how to fight right off the bat doesn't make it overpowered.

Its just the idea of players being forced to learn how to counter a hero before the hero is even played correctly is just

https://media3.giphy.com/media/13EjnL7RwHmA2Q/giphy.gif

the logic or absence of it just ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
At least when i started playing shinobi i didnt know what i was doing and lost matches till i took the time against around 100+ bots of all 4 lvls in a training room with countless deaths till i got the hang of it. Theres no such learning and there really doesn't need to be for Gladiator as i see it

Necparfait
08-18-2017, 06:03 AM
Not sure where you're coming from, personally. I've come up against maybe two different Highlanders or Gladiators that have given me trouble, and that was a clear case of the player being equal to/better than me, rather than anything innate to the heroes themselves. On the whole, I've been dishing out pain the same (possibly even more) as usual, and receiving the same amount, regardless of the presence of any Gladiators or Highlanders.

SwellChemosabe
08-18-2017, 06:27 AM
Its just the idea of players being forced to learn how to counter a hero before the hero is even played correctly is just

https://media3.giphy.com/media/13EjnL7RwHmA2Q/giphy.gif

the logic or absence of it just ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
At least when i started playing shinobi i didnt know what i was doing and lost matches till i took the time against around 100+ bots of all 4 lvls in a training room with countless deaths till i got the hang of it. Theres no such learning and there really doesn't need to be for Gladiator as i see it

Well that's the thing, you see, there really isn't any correct way to play a character. There's an -ideal- way to play them, but everyone throws their own flavor on it. I get it, new players picking up a new hero suddenly on par with adept players who've been at it for way longer really brings on the ****ty feeling of "Well what the ****?" but the more they play with that character the better they'll get and until there's a consistent pattern with how well the gladiator can be played all we can do is just play through the ******** and get better at beating them. I imagine what happened with shinobi would be the case here as well if gladiator had a similarly nerfed health limit. I haven't had too much trouble with any gladiator just yet and I've been maining Highlander since his release but you also got to think not everyone who's picking gladiator is a noob, they are probably a majority of players that have been playing as long as we have and already know how to deal with the other heroes, which also gives them a good advantage. You just have to wait a while. Like I said, two or three weeks from now Gladiator might turn out to be jack **** against most players because they've exhausted the element of surprise when it comes to their move set. Likewise, Gladiator could be a bigger issue than centurion (though highly...highly doubtful) and the devs will have to nerf him (or constantly listen to the outcry of the community for another season). My overall point being that until some time has passed and people know how to consistently play as and against a Gladiator we can't be making claims of him being OP.

lIDrAGzl
08-18-2017, 10:19 AM
I could say the same thing for Highlander, just twirling around like a ballerina because he has super armor backing him up. People talk about how safe the Gladiator Zone is this guy can just spin whenever he feels like because he has super armor. Oh but once that ******** is done he now has a fast kick and unblockables yay, oh I'm out of stamina I already got them down to about 80-90% let me just sit and do it again because its just free damage. Why does this charcter have "Hard" next to it's name? This class is braindead, they said the same thing about Shinobi and look what happened double dash kick double dash kick double dash kick double dash kick.

I would say I'm one of the better Highlanders and your argument is so invalid it's stupid. Parry, parry, parry. It's so easy to counter Highlander it's not funny. He's extremely slow and lacks good gaurdbreak distance i could beat him with any character in the game. And have you tried playing Highlander, Prolly not. When you do you'll see why hards beside his name.

lIDrAGzl
08-18-2017, 10:21 AM
And so the salt begins to pour out. Characters have been out for two days and the both of you are *****ing already about how OP they are. Try taking some time to learn how to fight against them/with them before you start crying. They're new, and they're different, that's the only "OP" thing about them so far.

It doesn't take months to learn a moveset and what your weaknesses are as a character.

SwellChemosabe
08-18-2017, 10:23 AM
It doesn't take months to learn a moveset and what your weaknesses are as a character.

Never said it did.

lIDrAGzl
08-18-2017, 10:42 AM
The unblockables can still be parried and in comparison to PK are immensely slower. Bleed ontop of Unblockable would be OP if it weren't for the fact that the speed is slow enough so that I can anticipate and dodge/parry those attacks. He's a tricky sum***** but he's not invincible and just because he's got a few unblockables doesn't make him special, he can be taken down just as easily, it's just a matter of learning his attacks and determining the most likely course of action an player will commit to based on how they approach you. Seems a bit extensive but this is how I manage most of my fights and it works most of the time. Just give it some time, pretty soon the hype on these characters will fade because everyone will learn exactly what to watch out for and how to counter these heroes with their mains.

I've run into some smart glads and it's literally impossible to beat them. Punch, faint skewer, toe jab; literally all you need to do. Skewer has such ridiculous range and timing you can't move back he'll reach, if you move to the side he'll toe stab, all the while your dazed from the punch. My only question is why does the gladiator have the only two unparriable unblockables that do damage in the game (zone into follow up, toe stab) sure the Highlander has the kick and grab but all you have to do is back step, none of his unblockables will land. As previously stated the gladiator has the best mix up capabilities in the game plus extra Stam and regen, plus excessive speed, plus great stamina punish. My Highlander is so slow if a glad times it right he can just keep toe stabbing me on the ground and my character just stands up and goes right back down. I'm so disappointed in this new character it's unreal, I'm not a game design but then again neither is the team that made gladiator.

D3dicatedSrv3rz
08-19-2017, 12:39 AM
Well that's the thing, you see, there really isn't any correct way to play a character. There's an -ideal- way to play them, but everyone throws their own flavor on it. I get it, new players picking up a new hero suddenly on par with adept players who've been at it for way longer really brings on the ****ty feeling of "Well what the ****?" but the more they play with that character the better they'll get and until there's a consistent pattern with how well the gladiator can be played all we can do is just play through the ******** and get better at beating them. I imagine what happened with shinobi would be the case here as well if gladiator had a similarly nerfed health limit. I haven't had too much trouble with any gladiator just yet and I've been maining Highlander since his release but you also got to think not everyone who's picking gladiator is a noob, they are probably a majority of players that have been playing as long as we have and already know how to deal with the other heroes, which also gives them a good advantage. You just have to wait a while. Like I said, two or three weeks from now Gladiator might turn out to be jack **** against most players because they've exhausted the element of surprise when it comes to their move set. Likewise, Gladiator could be a bigger issue than centurion (though highly...highly doubtful) and the devs will have to nerf him (or constantly listen to the outcry of the community for another season). My overall point being that until some time has passed and people know how to consistently play as and against a Gladiator we can't be making claims of him being OP.

Fair enough, though being able to repeatably toe stab an exhausted opponent over and over if they dont dodge or GB'ing them if they do i find is not excuse-able

SwellChemosabe
08-19-2017, 12:53 AM
Fair enough, though being able to repeatably toe stab an exhausted opponent over and over if they dont dodge or GB'ing them if they do i find is not excuse-able

This I can agree with, that part may be something addressed hopefully in the near future with the devs to see if there's someway to work around it and keep it from being the next centurion kick punch stab rinse repeat ritual

CandleInTheDark
08-19-2017, 02:20 AM
People keep saying that a person shouldn't be able to learn a new character quite quickly, can't speak for highlander but the thing is with gladiator, most anything you do you already do with other characters.

The punches? If you play warden or conqueror among others, it is down to muscle memory already. Dodge attacks and deflects? Any assassin. Parry punish? Centurion (though you can add a heavy on this one), the unblockable? The exact same controls as the Valkyrie sweep after lights. The only thing remotely new to learn control-wise is the toe stab. So yeah, as I said with shinobi last season, I can well believe that if someone spends an hour practising mixups they are as good with that character as with any other and the only thing that makes it op at this point is that others who haven't gotten that experience don't yet know the timings.

This isn't tekken where you have to learn a number of different combinations for every character, a lot of characters have control combinations in common, it makes characters easy to learn, but it makes the start of the season sucky for anyone who has not yet done so.

D3dicatedSrv3rz
08-19-2017, 02:58 AM
People keep saying that a person shouldn't be able to learn a new character quite quickly, can't speak for highlander but the thing is with gladiator, most anything you do you already do with other characters.

The punches? If you play warden or conqueror among others, it is down to muscle memory already. Dodge attacks and deflects? Any assassin. Parry punish? Centurion (though you can add a heavy on this one), the unblockable? The exact same controls as the Valkyrie sweep. The only thing remotely new to learn control-wise is the toe stab. So yeah, as I said with shinobi last season, I can well believe that if someone spends an hour practising mixups they are as good with that character as with any other and the only thing that makes it op at this point is that others who haven't gotten that experience don't yet know the timings.

This isn't tekken where you have to learn a number of different combinations for every character, it makes characters easy to learn, but it makes the start of the season sucky for anyone who has not yet done so.

I still can't see it as completely balanced when he has that many mechanics of other characters and still brings so many unique mechanics to the table >>> bash=>atk area, the toe stab, a deflect heavy bleed/GB wall splat etc. Kensei has range and a top UB finisher, shug had armor and a hug, pk had speed and bleeds, nobu has range and bleeds, Gladiator's list is just excessive

CandleInTheDark
08-19-2017, 03:08 AM
I still can't see it as completely balanced when he has that many mechanics of other characters and still brings so many unique mechanics to the table >>> bash=>atk area, the toe stab, a deflect heavy bleed/GB wall splat etc. Kensei has range and a top UB finisher, shug had armor and a hug, pk had speed and bleeds, nobu has range and bleeds, Gladiator's list is just excessive

I think it is too soon to say whether or not his kit is op, especially since a lot of his attacks are telegraphed, from shouts when dodging which if it is towards or to the side of you is a warning before the motion of the attack to orange flashy lights on his melee and unblockable and a moment before zone. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but I have a real problem with the argument 'someone is as good with this character as I am with mine, it must be op' because so many characters share control combinations in common. I spent an hour going through the kit, I intend to use him some time (after levelling others so likely after the first balance patches on him) but other than adding a guardbreak and heavy after a parry, there was nothing new for me to learn, I could pull off the gladiator moves as smoothly as I can my peacekeeper.

brashtralas
08-19-2017, 06:09 AM
He's cheap. I've played against him enough now to understand why. He has too much stamina, much like another hero many consider overpowered.

He can feint too many times in a row without stopping, allowing him to feint side, ub, toe pin, feint, heavy damage.

His damage is a bit too high, also.

Just my .02$

Sir_rage_quit
08-19-2017, 06:25 AM
Guys they still did not even nerf the centurion . they will need more data before even looking at the glad but so far i have a blast fighting vs him ( when its a average player did not fought a nolifer yet )

D3dicatedSrv3rz
08-19-2017, 08:05 AM
I think it is too soon to say whether or not his kit is op, especially since a lot of his attacks are telegraphed, from shouts when dodging which if it is towards or to the side of you is a warning before the motion of the attack to orange flashy lights on his melee and unblockable and a moment before zone. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but I have a real problem with the argument 'someone is as good with this character as I am with mine, it must be op' because so many characters share control combinations in common. I spent an hour going through the kit, I intend to use him some time (after levelling others so likely after the first balance patches on him) but other than adding a guardbreak and heavy after a parry, there was nothing new for me to learn, I could pull off the gladiator moves as smoothly as I can my peacekeeper.

While i can agree that being similar to other characters does bridge the learning curve quite a bit is it still wrong to say that with all of the abilities Gladiator shares with other characters in addition to the unique abilities of the character while maintaining the exhaustion punish, stamina drain and stamina retention of Centurion a bit much? I'd be willing to say he that he is quite balanced if his parry mixup punch and a dodge punch didn't instantly exhaust most characters the way Centurion can with his kick and if i wasn't SO easily able to pin exhausted opponents to the ground and GB the ones who attempt to dodge.