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View Full Version : Highlander - Crushing Counter Strike on All sides OP



Mia.Nora
08-16-2017, 02:36 AM
Before git gud crowd loses their marbles, just swallow your anger and read below.

Highlander has Crushing Counterstrike on all sides where his light beats incoming attack and deals very high damage, the same skill Warden has on top lights. The way this is put in action is exactly the same way with Valkyrie light superior block game. This is a skill I practiced often with my Valkyrie lights superior block property, instead of parrying incoming attacks I just light into my opponent's incoming attack. Since Valkyrie after parry game is not very strong anyway, I often choose to do so in a safer way that deals with feint games better.

Here is the thing; on Valkyrie this is pretty balanced since her lights do quite low damage. On the other hand Highlander Crushing Counterstrike, just like Warden's, deals a tremendous amount of damage. This means any attempt at going on offensive vs Highlander, even with lights, is extremely lopsided in terms of risk vs reward. If he beats incoming attacks in a 1 in 3 rate he comes on top of that trade.

Highlander toolkit is strong enough with its mixups. I tested his Celtic Curse Top>Side mixup vs Warden Top light with 500ms thrown without changing guard direction (already on top block); and Highlander still beats it in terms of speed. He has UI on his heavies for trading. And those are just defensive bits in his kit without Caber Toss mixups.

When on top of those Highlander has access to crushing counterstrike on all sides he becomes way too dangerous to attempt to on offensive against. This is forcing me to turtle real hard vs him. Last thing we want in this game is another moveset that forces people to turtle real hard due to how heavy it punishes on mistakes. On the Highlander's case, throwing any attack is a mistake.


A move that is so easy to pull off, that punishes any attack will result in making heroes without unblockables to be obsolete vs Highlander. Champs without unblockables already play subpar, and frankly unblockable attacks are not the healthiest thing in the game in the first place. Unless this is addressed gameplay will become even more so bland and boring.

Alregard
08-16-2017, 03:42 AM
I played 3 hours with highlander in duel with a mate. He cannot counterstrike light attacks of most chars. As I said in another post, he is sluggish. You input the commands, but he delays the attack, ending in a block or hit.
Weird... Parrys work fine.

Rikuto01.tv
08-16-2017, 03:45 AM
No.

Mia.Nora
08-16-2017, 04:18 AM
I played 3 hours with highlander in duel with a mate. He cannot counterstrike light attacks of most chars. As I said in another post, he is sluggish. You input the commands, but he delays the attack, ending in a block or hit.
Weird... Parrys work fine.

Just try with your friend again and this time get him to pick Valkyrie instead and try. If he cant get it with Valk neither, then it is a problem with his mechanical skills and need to practice. If he can do it just fine with Valk, but fail to use with HL, then you might have a point.

The thing is people will master the timing on that and turtle like hell, forcing their opponent to spam unblockables; and if opponent doesn't have one just stare at each other.


lvl 3 HL Bot pretty much pulls it on all 500ms attacks. Then again bots cheap constantly defying game mechanics. Need my mates to get online to test with them more.

Girl2Good
08-16-2017, 05:10 AM
Before git gud crowd loses their marbles, just swallow your anger and read below.

Highlander has Crushing Counterstrike on all sides where his light beats incoming attack and deals very high damage, the same skill Warden has on top lights. The way this is put in action is exactly the same way with Valkyrie light superior block game. This is a skill I practiced often with my Valkyrie lights superior block property, instead of parrying incoming attacks I just light into my opponent's incoming attack. Since Valkyrie after parry game is not very strong anyway, I often choose to do so in a safer way that deals with feint games better.

Here is the thing; on Valkyrie this is pretty balanced since her lights do quite low damage. On the other hand Highlander Crushing Counterstrike, just like Warden's, deals a tremendous amount of damage. This means any attempt at going on offensive vs Highlander, even with lights, is extremely lopsided in terms of risk vs reward. If he beats incoming attacks in a 1 in 3 rate he comes on top of that trade.

Highlander toolkit is strong enough with its mixups. I tested his Celtic Curse Top>Side mixup vs Warden Top light with 500ms thrown without changing guard direction (already on top block); and Highlander still beats it in terms of speed. He has UI on his heavies for trading. And those are just defensive bits in his kit without Caber Toss mixups.

When on top of those Highlander has access to crushing counterstrike on all sides he becomes way too dangerous to attempt to on offensive against. This is forcing me to turtle real hard vs him. Last thing we want in this game is another moveset that forces people to turtle real hard due to how heavy it punishes on mistakes. On the Highlander's case, throwing any attack is a mistake.


A move that is so easy to pull off, that punishes any attack will result in making heroes without unblockables to be obsolete vs Highlander. Champs without unblockables already play subpar, and frankly unblockable attacks are not the healthiest thing in the game in the first place. Unless this is addressed gameplay will become even more so bland and boring.

How about we let the character be out for a couple weeks before we start claiming OP. He's only been out for less than a day.

Mia.Nora
08-16-2017, 05:50 AM
How about we let the character be out for a couple weeks before we start claiming OP. He's only been out for less than a day.

Crushing counterstrike is not a new mechanic, it has been around since beta. This couple weeks wont reveal a magical new aspect of it???

We all know how people play this game. It will make him a great turtle, vs which you wont want to attack; creating most boring staring contests.

Knight_Raime
08-16-2017, 09:49 AM
I can't agree and let me explain why:

~Not everyone plays valk. So basing how easy it is off of that isn't really well. a good argument.

~crushing counter in general isn't as easy as parrying and is more risky compared to attempting a parry. This is because assassins have the ability to parry a crushing counter. and because crushing counter is a light. not a heavy. meaning if a turtle is going to attempt to crushing counter he's risking being baited into a parry.

~Celtic curse is only working on people now because he's new. it's slow enough to be blocked on reaction once you understand. So using that as a way in isn't as good as crushing counter.

~Him trading with his heavies for a way in is better. But the trade damage wise usually isn't worth it. sometimes because of his heavies not being that hard hitting (aside from top ones) but also because of his current health pool. If his health was closer to warlord him trading often to get in would be much more viable.

~mix ups. This one I can almost give you. If it weren't for the amount of stamina he has to expend. He also can't defend against GB's in offense. and players with faster attacks can interrupt some of his things. I was doing it all tonight as gladiator. he can't tech GB's while in offense. and i've GBed him more than once in the middle of him trying to heavy or switch into offensive.

It is a strong thing for highlander to have. but he himself doesn't have the best ins on someone due to his current health/stamina. and parrying currently doesn't get him much either. So yeah. Technically a turtle can be really strong if he only waits around for crushing counters. But considering he gets basically nothing off of a parry and crushing counter is a LOT more riskier compared to a parry he's not going to be a turtle god.

DrinkinMyStella
08-16-2017, 10:19 AM
its his hyper armour that makes him an animal, even if I jab between his attacks the hyper armour will get me and his heavy attacks are very strong.