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View Full Version : Nerf Cancerturion and Raider and pls buff Berserker



timur_the_boss
08-13-2017, 08:26 PM
^^ I cannot be bothered to include the details everyone can agree with me.

brashtralas
08-13-2017, 08:37 PM
^^ I cannot be bothered to include the details everyone can agree with me.

With the new chip damage, I do not agree with a berserker buff. His ability to continue chains despite being blocked will make him a powerhouse with increased chip damage.

Knight_Raime
08-13-2017, 08:57 PM
Only thing that needs changing on raider is the insta stampede.

timur_the_boss
08-13-2017, 10:22 PM
Berserker is really glitchy with some of his moves, I love playing him but he gets dealt with whenever hes grabbed. and you know raider has too much HP and it takes too much to break him down all he does is his unblockable spam no skill move, throws u like 200 metres its just dumb he needs a hp nerf or defence nerf. cos every team i play against is cancerturions and raiders, one throws u, the other one does the unblockable, its just not fun at all man. i know you guys gonna get these comments like gitgud, or ur a noob blablabla, i wanna enjoy playing conqueror cos i can't with there ****ty *** spam, and i like playing zerker

timur_the_boss
08-13-2017, 10:24 PM
surely when you pick someone up and throw them u should lose stamina? so why doesnt that happen to raider?

S0Mi_xD
08-13-2017, 11:50 PM
With the new chip damage, I do not agree with a berserker buff. His ability to continue chains despite being blocked will make him a powerhouse with increased chip damage.

Lol, and there are you totally wrong -.- .... People who don't know what they are talking about.
Berserker does not benefit from chip dmg buff that much as you people think... you are all saying it as if Berserker is the chip dmg God .... Kensei, Raider, Shugoki those heroes have a high profit from it.

You may think now "what does this stupid talking about, berserker deals mass dmg"
He is a theoreticaly good DPS (dmg per second, means he can deal a good amount dmg in a certain time) Hero.

Even if i already explained it in my analysis + suggestions i did not long ago -> here: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1721926-Analysing-this-Hero-Works-not-as-intended
I'll explain it in this thread with an example.

"To mention this is very important, because there are people assuming that berserker will highly benefit from the Chip dmg Buff.
_______Basic ___Combo
Light ___ 17______ 12 (ubi buffed his combo lights from 9 to 12 some months ago)
Heavy__ 33 ______ 20

His FIRST attack is Basic dmg, but all attacks in a chain (what he is build around) are weaker because he was made to be uninterruptable and attacking while ignoring everything that would stop him. (He was meant to be a DPS char)"

His abililty to contiously attacking (that acually is not true) agrument, fails due to:
1. Blocking lights interrupts it.
2. Parries aswell, and Berserker isn't hard to parry.
3. You can easy dodge out

Now about the dmg, IF you miss to block the lights and and only block the heavies:
Lets assume the berserker goes with a 4 attack chain, Light+Heavy+Light+Top Heavy combofinisher
17dmg + 20*18%= 3,6 ~ 4 dmg + 12dmg + 55*18% = 9,9 ~ 10 dmg A total of 43 dmg
If you compare it to the current chip dmg it would be: 17 + 1 + 12 + 6 = 36 dmg
This example does fit if you are really at beginner lvl or really unlucky.
Normally it would happen that:
A: First light gets blocked or parried 50% chance
B: heavy in chain gets parried 25 % chance
C: Gets Blocked 50 % chance
D: Finisher Gets Parried or evaded 40%
That means, 50% chance you hit with the light, 35% chance to hit with the heavy, 17,5% to hit with the second light, 10,5% chance to hit with the Finisher ....

Berserker needs some major buffs to work as inteded.

UbiJurassic
08-14-2017, 01:28 AM
^^ I cannot be bothered to include the details everyone can agree with me.

We're aware that Centurion remains a consistent problem for some players and we're continuing to look at possible balance changes for him. Starting is Season 3, we will be nerfing his stacking CC effectiveness in 4v4, but we may look to do more to him later. As for Raider, we've seen increasingly more feedback on him, particularly with his charge. We're getting that over to the team and they'll investigate the possibility of changes to him as well. As for Berserker, there are definitely some players that find that he is underpowered, especially in the current meta. Changes to the meta are still in development, so his effectiveness might change in the future. Regardless, we'll get the sentiment over to the team. Is there an area in particular that you believe Berseker underperforms?

D3dicatedSrv3rz
08-14-2017, 01:36 AM
berserker buff... NO. learn to spam feints and uninterruptibles like the rest of them and the chip damage increase you have even more of a reason to spend your stamina to continue your combo.

Tundra 793
08-14-2017, 01:37 AM
. Is there an area in particular that you believe Berseker underperforms?

Yes. Several. All of them.

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1652128-Berserker-does-need-Adjustments

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1708952-Berserker-thoughts

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1704397-The-neglect-of-the-Berserker-is-unforgivable

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1700673-The-Berserker-A-distant-memory

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1616929-Berserker-s-faults-bugs-and-other

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1721926-Analysing-this-Hero-Works-not-as-intended

We've been telling you this since Season 1, and nothing's been done so far. All but the most dedicated Berserkes switched classes ages ago, and come Season 3 I'll be jumping to the Highlander after 18 reps exclusively as a Berserker.

brashtralas
08-14-2017, 01:45 AM
@Somi

I'm on console, so I really am not certain about the upcoming changes since I had no way to play the test server. I would like the opportunity to try it out on console before a bunch of fast characters start getting buffs to compensate on PC.

UbiJurassic
08-14-2017, 01:50 AM
Yes. Several. All of them.

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1652128-Berserker-does-need-Adjustments

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1708952-Berserker-thoughts

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1704397-The-neglect-of-the-Berserker-is-unforgivable

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1700673-The-Berserker-A-distant-memory

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1616929-Berserker-s-faults-bugs-and-other

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1721926-Analysing-this-Hero-Works-not-as-intended

We've been telling you this since Season 1, and nothing's been done so far. All but the most dedicated Berserkes switched classes ages ago, and come Season 3 I'll be jumping to the Highlander after 18 reps exclusively as a Berserker.

Thanks for passing along all the feedback on Berseker. I'm making a note to pass it all along to the team to look over.

Sneaky-Patches
08-14-2017, 01:55 AM
Yes, cent and raider need work.

Get in line for assasin buffs... Shinobi and maybe orochi are ahead in the queue...

Also, Zerker has OP gadgets with no counter to them at all, like the traps, they need a way to disable them if you spot them.

They also need to fix the unlock spammy bug where they can delay and spam guard direction on console, so it ends up being unreactable for anyone on the recieving end.

See where the zerker chips fall after that and see if he needs a buff or not. Also, as others have stated, the new chip damage should already give him a large buff, but we'll have to wait and see.

S0Mi_xD
08-14-2017, 02:41 AM
@Somi

I'm on console, so I really am not certain about the upcoming changes since I had no way to play the test server. I would like the opportunity to try it out on console before a bunch of fast characters start getting buffs to compensate on PC.

At first, sorry if i sound abit harsh/biased.
I am a console player aswell and a very experienced Berserker Main (at least yet), i never played the PTR, but i saw what will change and how this affected the games.
And i do say to you, Berserker will not profit that much from those changes. Also i did wait all the time until they finally start to change the meta, so i can give suggestions with those meta changes in mind.
Btw. Berserker attacks are not fast, in his chain his attacks are abit faster but this doesn't makes it harder to parry them.
As an example, Centurions normal Heavies are 500ms this is the speed of good light attacks, it deals 25 dmg.
Berserkers side lights are 500 and top are 600 ms, they deal 17 dmg and in chain they are all 500ms and deal 12 dmg.
Berserkes side heavies are 900 ms, 33 dmg, in the chain 700ms deal 20 dmg.



berserker buff... NO. learn to spam feints and uninterruptibles like the rest of them and the chip damage increase you have even more of a reason to spend your stamina to continue your combo.

You don't even know what you are talking.
If you spam feints, that means you will attack mainly with lights -> no heavies means no chip dmg.
Above i already explained why Berserker does not profit that much from chip dmg, as you might think
Berserker burns already his stamina pretty fast, and with heroes who drain stamina it is even harder, the problem is - berserker was designed to attack much, build up pressure- but that's not working at all.

bmason1000
08-14-2017, 06:23 AM
Thanks for passing along all the feedback on Berseker. I'm making a note to pass it all along to the team to look over.

Tundra, somi... all those talks we had, and they're finally acknowledging it.

Good job dudes. Lets see if it goes anywhere.

S0Mi_xD
08-14-2017, 10:24 AM
Tundra, somi... all those talks we had, and they're finally acknowledging it.

Good job dudes. Lets see if it goes anywhere.

yeah ^^, i hope they adress Berserker at least for 5 minutes in a dev stream, this would be a huge step forward o_o

Dude_of_Valor
08-14-2017, 02:46 PM
@Somi

I'm on console, so I really am not certain about the upcoming changes since I had no way to play the test server. I would like the opportunity to try it out on console before a bunch of fast characters start getting buffs to compensate on PC.

This ^^^ 100%

bmason1000
08-14-2017, 03:59 PM
yeah ^^, i hope they adress Berserker at least for 5 minutes in a dev stream, this would be a huge step forward o_o for real. It would be great to hear "hey, we've heard concerns about berserker we're gonna look in to that." Something. Anything. Just acknowledge the situation.

StriderBorne
08-14-2017, 04:40 PM
UbiJurassic - why is it taking so long to balance the classes? Serious question.
In other games Ive played and beta tested, you see something so OP, the attitude is 'enjoy that while you can bc that is going away'. And then next week bam...yep cant do that any more. Here its like the response seems to be 'maybe we will look at it in a few months?'
I've never seen a company fart around so long not fixing something.
The Centurion thing is like a bad joke now, and people flock to that class because they KNOW its broken.
What is ya'lls problem?

S0Mi_xD
08-14-2017, 04:49 PM
UbiJurassic - why is it taking so long to balance the classes? Serious question.
In other games Ive played and beta tested, you see something so OP, the attitude is 'enjoy that while you can bc that is going away'. And then next week bam...yep cant do that any more. Here its like the response seems to be 'maybe we will look at it in a few months?'
I've never seen a company fart around so long not fixing something.
The Centurion thing is like a bad joke now, and people flock to that class because they KNOW its broken.
What is ya'lls problem?

It's because they mainly working on new heroes, designs etc. and server issues, bug fixes.
Balance issues don't have that much priority except it is really OP.
If a class like Berserkes doesn't work that well, they don't care much about it, because people like me, who are giving their best with the class and 200% every fight push the win/death ration up.

UnblockableMeta
08-14-2017, 10:23 PM
At first, sorry if i sound abit harsh/biased.
I am a console player aswell and a very experienced Berserker Main (at least yet), i never played the PTR, but i saw what will change and how this affected the games.
And i do say to you, Berserker will not profit that much from those changes. Also i did wait all the time until they finally start to change the meta, so i can give suggestions with those meta changes in mind.
Btw. Berserker attacks are not fast, in his chain his attacks are abit faster but this doesn't makes it harder to parry them.
As an example, Centurions normal Heavies are 500ms this is the speed of good light attacks, it deals 25 dmg.
Berserkers side lights are 500 and top are 600 ms, they deal 17 dmg and in chain they are all 500ms and deal 12 dmg.
Berserkes side heavies are 900 ms, 33 dmg, in the chain 700ms deal 20 dmg.




You don't even know what you are talking.
If you spam feints, that means you will attack mainly with lights -> no heavies means no chip dmg.
Above i already explained why Berserker does not profit that much from chip dmg, as you might think
Berserker burns already his stamina pretty fast, and with heroes who drain stamina it is even harder, the problem is - berserker was designed to attack much, build up pressure- but that's not working at all.

What is the problem with attacking with lights tho, PK does just fine, so fine that she got nerfed. You also get a semi-tracking dodge light and the best deflect mechanic in the game. I dont think the dev's worked hard on making this character as the notion having an "assassin" class that can tank hits better the the vanguard class due to hyper armor mechanics is so backward.

D3dicatedSrv3rz
08-14-2017, 10:36 PM
At first, sorry if i sound abit harsh/biased.
I am a console player aswell and a very experienced Berserker Main (at least yet), i never played the PTR, but i saw what will change and how this affected the games.
And i do say to you, Berserker will not profit that much from those changes. Also i did wait all the time until they finally start to change the meta, so i can give suggestions with those meta changes in mind.
Btw. Berserker attacks are not fast, in his chain his attacks are abit faster but this doesn't makes it harder to parry them.
As an example, Centurions normal Heavies are 500ms this is the speed of good light attacks, it deals 25 dmg.
Berserkers side lights are 500 and top are 600 ms, they deal 17 dmg and in chain they are all 500ms and deal 12 dmg.
Berserkes side heavies are 900 ms, 33 dmg, in the chain 700ms deal 20 dmg.




You don't even know what you are talking.
If you spam feints, that means you will attack mainly with lights -> no heavies means no chip dmg.
Above i already explained why Berserker does not profit that much from chip dmg, as you might think
Berserker burns already his stamina pretty fast, and with heroes who drain stamina it is even harder, the problem is - berserker was designed to attack much, build up pressure- but that's not working at all.

Do damage with your lights and chip away with your in-combo heavies if they're blocked?. Maybe you dont even know what you're reading or how to apply pressure. With a virtually unending combo u benefit the most from chip damage do u not? yes, takes a while to do damage when blocked but your rate is probably better than most characters with that combo.

bmason1000
08-14-2017, 10:49 PM
Do damage with your lights and chip away with your in-combo heavies if they're blocked?. Maybe you dont even know what you're reading or how to apply pressure. With a virtually unending combo u benefit the most from chip damage do u not? yes, takes a while to do damage when blocked but your rate is probably better than most characters with that combo.here's the thing though, the heavies are mostly feinted or parried so you're not getting that chip damage. While the combo is "virtually unending" by design, in practice this is not the case. Berserker has high potential for good chip damage, sure, but it won't work it. If you let your infinite combo fly for 10 hits and all your opponent does is block then yeah, that's good chip i guess. However, you're completely out of stamina and that situation i just described hasn't happened to anyone since the beta. Also, the chained attacks aren't very high damage.

So yes, on paper, berserker greatly benefits from chip because he has a rapid string of unending chained attacks. But the damage is low and you're never going to chain enough blocked attacks to amount to anything.

bmason1000
08-14-2017, 10:54 PM
Mind you I'm not saying berserker benefits LESS from chip than others, it just seems there's this group of people who think chip is going to make berserker a monster and that it's some hidden super buff to the class, and i simply don't think that's the case. Not at all like people think.

S0Mi_xD
08-14-2017, 11:04 PM
What is the problem with attacking with lights tho, PK does just fine, so fine that she got nerfed. You also get a semi-tracking dodge light and the best deflect mechanic in the game. I dont think the dev's worked hard on making this character as the notion having an "assassin" class that can tank hits better the the vanguard class due to hyper armor mechanics is so backward.

PK is a fast hero, she can use those lights with more ease and without feinting that much.
The dodge light is only good for whiffing or countering attacks, it is easy to block and to parry... happens all the time even if i play wicked.
The deflect is pretty good but only in 1v1 as soon you are fighting multiple enemies it is a big drawback because you will stuck in the animation, to deal the good dmg you need to...
A: Get the defelct
B: Start the slow 800 ms (33 dmg) heavy or throw against a wall
C: if against a wall a 900 ms top heavy (46 dmg)
Sure it is good dmg, and you also can throw of ledges
But i would like to have a deflect that just abit faster, but ok

Best defelct is shinobis. (just abit better, but it is better)
- it is fast
- good dmg
- mix up potential

Defelct is risky and if the enemy is pretty good much to risky, because berserker has quite a large dodge recovery.
Dodge lights are blocked or parried because they are very much telegraphed.

About Berserker being "tanky" this is exactly how he should work, it's not like devs though " oh his infinit chain is hard to maintain, lets give hime hyperarmor" it was in his kit since beginning but it was set on the 4th hit in the chain. But a 4-attack-chain is very hard to do, in a fight it is near impossible.

Berserker has low HP, means he can't trade much dmg.
Devs made the Berserker a relentless attack, ignoring incoming attacks and continue his own attacks.

You can't compare any assassins, just because they are assassin's they don't need to work in the same way and shouldn't do so.

Also, PK has a light-light- heavy chain, that means she has the double amount of lights to use, (like her traite says, she is fast) and can feint into lights.

Berserker has a light-heavy endelss chain, that means you go, feint 1/4 of your stamina to confuse your enemy and to MAYBE get a light of it ....
Befor the Hyperarmor was set to 2 attacks, the only way to play Berserker was, this ****ty way, feinting and lights....
Such a pain in the ***, at least we Berserkers can draw some advantage with hyperarmor. But therefor you need to trick your enemy into attacking you and trade dmg with him.

The berserker is the only hero, with whom i need to give 200% every second.

S0Mi_xD
08-14-2017, 11:14 PM
Do damage with your lights and chip away with your in-combo heavies if they're blocked?. Maybe you dont even know what you're reading or how to apply pressure. With a virtually unending combo u benefit the most from chip damage do u not? yes, takes a while to do damage when blocked but your rate is probably better than most characters with that combo.

Like bmason1000 says
- Heavies ar feinted most of the time, because it is likely that they get parried, so no real chip dmg.
- Feinting draws ton of stamina, berserker feints 3 times more than any other hero, attacking and get blocked draws stamina aswell
i need to spend 1/4 up to 1/2 of my stamina to get a Light attack in against people who have a glimps of what they are doing

In theory berserker sounds great, that was also my thought i first time played him - but then reality hit me hard in the face

Building up pessure is easy against noobs and up to most average players, but if somebody gets nearly familiary with your playstyle and the Berserker, you can't build any pressure, because the enemy doesn't have to fear anything from the Berserker as long as he stays cool.

About the rest, my Brozerker already mentioned all.

Wanna have a video where i fight?

S0Mi_xD
08-15-2017, 02:32 PM
Even if berserker would benefit that much from chip dmg like people think, chip dmg isn't lethal now. Means berserker has no real way to take the last bit of life - only by outplaying your enemy

Miadous
08-15-2017, 10:58 PM
Berserker main here since closed beta. I've thrown my thoughts into the ring several times in the past (it's been like 6 months at this point) about the low tier Berserker. He's has only ever been a noob stomper. Overwhelm new players with attacks while changing directions, feint the heavies into guardbreak or a different direction heavy or light, etc. Spam feints. That has been the only mechanic berserker has. The only thing that Ubisoft has ever done to help Berserker is make the chain start at 2 instead of 4 hits. That still only works against new players. Just move the block stick correctly so stop the chain from getting started. To fight a berserker, just stand there, pay attention, and react to him. Block in the correct direction, counter the GB when it comes, don't try to parry everything and you will probably win. It seems like he is the laziest designed character since they come up with the idea. There's still something about it that makes him awesome to play. We just want him to not make it so hard on us to play as him. Valkyrie is my 2nd main and I still can't believe Ubisoft allows a free GB just by blocking her dodging light attacks. I'll be switching to Highlander for a while after trying him in a few matches today. Now, that is a deep, complex character with potential.

S0Mi_xD
08-15-2017, 11:19 PM
Highlander is great.
And now for all those people who are saying "chip dmg will boost berserker pretty much" - - - nothing, nearly no difference, only his top heavy combofinsiher deals good 10 dmg chip, the problem is still, you can't land heavies in this game, because parry is to strong and even lights are not that hard to parry.

BudgetParrot118
08-15-2017, 11:50 PM
I think ubisoft did a great job. I,am pleased with the changes. Armor and,customization comes soon I hope. Other that I'm happy.

I honestly don't feel like beserker needs buffing I think he needs tweaking and maybe an extra stun of some sort would be nice since everybody has one move like that.

Hypothetically though if Centurion was nerfed then you wouldn't really need to buff the zerker Centurion is the only character that pretty much if you're playing a beserker it's 90% chance you're going to lose if you do win it was because you played against somebody who doesn't know how to play.

I switch to warlord and lawbringers centurions are all beatable and I don't feel like they're a problem but then again if I run into an a hole player that all they want to do is stun stun stun well I just head but right back and we play the game like that and I still beat them.

Other than that though I also pretty much here lately play against AI.

I'm not going to go on a long spiel on why but I will say it's I feel like I'm diogenes carrying a lantern through the town in the middle of the day looking for honorable players

They do need to consider the worst players possible when they're adding Buffs and there needs to be weaknesses to certain moves that give somebody a extreme advantage.

BudgetParrot118
08-15-2017, 11:56 PM
I literally am happy with a lot of the things that I played today and I think they are on the right track and I hope they keep up the good work.

The tournament was what it was I'm not going to go and get upset because honestly they knew about those techniques they knew about those exploits I knew they were going to be used I feel sorry for the competitors to some degree and the guy that one quite frankly I don't see how he's not I don't know feeling ashamed because again I guess that's where I couldn't do something like that because I wouldn't stand a chance against someone that would stoop so low but I'm not angry at 4 honor nor do I want the game to just die and all this dumb s*** I'm quite frankly I'm getting fed up it seems like the negativity went away for a little bit and now it's back tenfold.

You're not the ones having to make the game you're not the ones having to consider all the issues and quite frankly considering where the game was and where it is now I think they are making progress overall and as long as they keep that up and show commitment and I see maybe there might be more to the game after season 4 that's that's going to be the big deal breaker for me if there is more things after season 4 then I think I would be able to trust for honor and the game a lot more and as well would be extremely open to spending money at least weekly on it but I have my reservations right now because I want to see you more content and more options as far as customization so my character feels like my identity my character.

Either way though I will say this a lot of people need to start considering decorum when you're posting things I'm not saying in this instance the person is guilty of it in this thread but a lot of these posts where your title message has cussing in it honestly think people need to understand you need to have some standards and communicate an effective way not just spew out a bunch of ignorant remarks and show your rage and angry because this isn't McDonald's complaint line.