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Martial1
04-19-2004, 01:28 PM
What planes did you fly when you were a Noob and why? Those FW109/190 aces- did you graduate to those planes or did you fly them from day 1?
When I started flying IL2,for a long time I flew Russian aircraft because you can turn fight in them. Axis aircraft have to be flownin a different manner and I could not compete on line or off in a 109 or 190. After a year or so experience I developed the skills required.
I would like to hear from all sections of the community- Noob to Ace

Lets face it,Axis planes are Hard, hard,hard.

Salute

Martial1

Martial1
04-19-2004, 01:28 PM
What planes did you fly when you were a Noob and why? Those FW109/190 aces- did you graduate to those planes or did you fly them from day 1?
When I started flying IL2,for a long time I flew Russian aircraft because you can turn fight in them. Axis aircraft have to be flownin a different manner and I could not compete on line or off in a 109 or 190. After a year or so experience I developed the skills required.
I would like to hear from all sections of the community- Noob to Ace

Lets face it,Axis planes are Hard, hard,hard.

Salute

Martial1

faustnik
04-19-2004, 01:32 PM
The 109G2 is very easy to fly, so certainly n00bs can fly Axis.

I started on the IL-2 P-39, then moved to the 190 in FB.

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Martial1
04-19-2004, 01:37 PM
The 109 G2 is,nt easy to fly in DF against a Russian plane if you are a Noob,as you have no concept of energy tactics. It might be easy to fly solo but introduce a mediocre Russian pilot and its all over fast!

Regards

Martial1

Martial1
04-19-2004, 01:39 PM
You answered my question anyway, you graduated to Axis from IL2and P-39 ( All Russian don't you know )

Platypus_1.JaVA
04-19-2004, 01:43 PM
Axis might not be that appealing to fly.
A: It generally requires a bit more skill to fight in axis aircraft because

A1: Axis aircraft do generally not turn very well
A2: It takes a bit more patience to fight effectivly in most Axis fighters.

B: People tend to like the aircraft better if it had been in their air-force. Axis aircraft where only used by a small part of the world.

I come from Holland. We fought our five day war with a handfull of fighters. The best fighters we had, where the Fokker G.1's (altough alot of them where destroyed on the ground on the first day) and the workhorse, the Fokker D.XXI.

I would very much wanted to see the D.XXI in the game. I imagine that it will not be a particular effective aircraft in FB AEP but, because our country depended on it for its five day war, I want to fly it.

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2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
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to you again.

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BuzzU
04-19-2004, 01:48 PM
Bah! The 109's are easy to fly for any noob. If you want to turn, just take an F4. Energy fighting is no harder to learn than turn fighting, and I think it's much easier to stay alive. You don't need to graduate to German planes. What a freaking myth that is.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Martial1
04-19-2004, 01:49 PM
This is my point exactly.
I believe because of the skill required, you graduate onto axis planes after learning the ropes on Turn fighters. There aint no turn fighting done in a 109 or 190 unless you your opponent is a super Noob LOL

Regards

Martial1

lbhskier37
04-19-2004, 01:54 PM
Started on the 109 cause I it looked mean and had heard many stories about it. In FB I "graduated" to the 190 because it was big fast and had lots of guns. I have been flying a lot of American planes in AEP now, but don't tell my squad that http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

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carguy_
04-19-2004, 01:58 PM
When I was a n00b I flew VVS most of the time.It was very nice to turn and don`t fall into spins.Plus the VVS campaign was soo much more playable.
After that I went online and after a week of flying online with ratio 3 kills to 1 death.
I thought it was too easy and wanted a challenge.Me109G6 is still my ride of choice.

G2 was a blast to fly though.In the first VEF days I T&Bed with VVS like I was one of them.Had pretty much success too. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif

I think every noob should fly VVS first not to be put off by the learning curve of overall LW.
Then when one gets a hang of it,we`ll see who is ambitious and who is not. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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Tailspin2
04-19-2004, 02:07 PM
I flew the Corsair in Warbirds. It was myself and Hitech that were generally the ones flying it back in '95. I really learned the hard way but refused to give up on the plane.

I would have done the same thing for FB with the FW190.

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CaptainGelo
04-19-2004, 02:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BuzzU:
Bah! The 109's are easy to fly for any noob. If you want to turn, just take an F4. Energy fighting is no harder to learn than turn fighting, and I think it's much easier to stay alive. You don't need to graduate to German planes. What a freaking myth that is.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buzz
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto/anderson9.jpg
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm agree with you, and as a noob in Il2 days I had more kills in bf then in VVS and it was easyer to fly then VVS...

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tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
04-19-2004, 02:21 PM
More likely its good guy bad guy syndrome. Not many folk wana play the bad guy in a scenario hense they might naturally migrate to allied planes. Also I guess the old 'better visabilaty' in the allied aircraft (least in this sim anyhoo) might apply to. Me? I fly em all and enjoy em all and I dont think you will find anyone hear that sticks totally to any one aircraft type simply because they are new/noob

johann_thor
04-19-2004, 02:32 PM
i flew MIGs ...

... but then, I still fly them !

BpGemini
04-19-2004, 02:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Martial1:
You answered my question anyway, you graduated to Axis from IL2and P-39 ( All Russian don't you know )<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


The P-39 was harder and less n00bie than any Axis plane in IL-2.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

If I wanted to I could debate various definitions of what could be considered n00bie. First off the most trademark n00bie trait is being able to dictate the fight. Most natural B&Zmers have this trait and therefore could easily be considered more n00bish. This existence of this trait includes most German and the Ki-84 plane sets.

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FW190fan
04-19-2004, 02:37 PM
Started with the 190 back when IL/2 hit the shelves.

Now I fly a mix including B-239, 109s, Bf 110, Go-229 and He-162 in addition to the Fockes.

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FW190fan
04-19-2004, 02:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BpGemini:
First off the most trademark n00bie trait is being able to dictate the fight. Most natural B&Zmers have this trait and therefore could easily be considered more n00bish. This existence of this trait includes most German and the Ki-84 plane sets.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're exactly right but most noobies can't figure this out.

They follow the first inclination which by nature seems to be TnB, or they don't have the patience for BnZ.

http://people.aero.und.edu/~choma/lrg0645.jpg

Mitlov47
04-19-2004, 02:48 PM
Plenty of Noobs fly Axis. They just spend all their time on this forum whining that Oleg Maddox is biased and demanding that their FW-190 be able to turn with an I-185.

There's no "moral superiority" to being a BnZ pilot. Really, there isn't. It doesn't make you cooler than anyone else. After all, were REAL WWII pilots who flew Spitfires or Zeros somehow "noobs" compared to pilots who flew FW-190s or P-47s? I think not.

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FW190fan
04-19-2004, 02:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

Originally posted by EMitton:
Plenty of Noobs fly Axis. They just spend all their time on this forum whining that Oleg Maddox is biased and demanding that their FW-190 be able to turn with an I-185.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


BullSh_ _ _ _

Pure and simple.

NOBODY that posts here on a regualar basis and flys the FW190 does that.

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SeaFireLIV
04-19-2004, 02:58 PM
I started with Allied planes first because allied would ALWAYS be what i would default to. I flew VVS planes first cos IL2`s was an Eastern Front sim. Online I began with the LA5 cos I was advised it was easiest to learn on.

3 years later, I STILL fly Allied and often the LA5. Guess that makes me a 3 year noob!

SeaFireLIV...



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faustnik
04-19-2004, 03:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EMitton:
Plenty of Noobs fly Axis. They just spend all their time on this forum whining that Oleg Maddox is biased and demanding that their FW-190 be able to turn with an I-185.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Mitlov47
04-19-2004, 03:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FW190fan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

Originally posted by EMitton:
Plenty of Noobs fly Axis. They just spend all their time on this forum whining that Oleg Maddox is biased and demanding that their FW-190 be able to turn with an I-185.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


BullSh_ _ _ _

Pure and simple.

NOBODY that posts here on a regualar basis and flys the FW190 does that.

http://people.aero.und.edu/~choma/lrg0645.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay, so my exaggeration is unfair. However, would you admit that:

1) Various "forum tourists/passerbies" have really raised hell at Maddox demanding that Luftwaffe planes be superior in every way to Allied planes?

2) Luftwaffe pilots are proportionately more vocal about the problems with their aircraft's flight modeling? There are some significant problems with USAAF planes too, but there don't seem to be nearly as many threads about the USAAF problems.

3) Maybe some of the Luftwaffe regulars DO go on "I'm a better pilot because I fly LW; Luftwaffe planes are the only possible choice of skilled pilots" rants a bit too often, not realizing how irritating and silly these rants are to everyone else?

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faustnik
04-19-2004, 03:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EMitton:
2) Luftwaffe pilots are proportionately more vocal about the problems with their aircraft's flight modeling? There are some significant problems with USAAF planes too, but there don't seem to be nearly as many threads about the USAAF problems.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Total BS. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

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BpGemini
04-19-2004, 03:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FW190fan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BpGemini:
First off the most trademark n00bie trait is being able to dictate the fight. Most natural B&Zmers have this trait and therefore could easily be considered more n00bish. This existence of this trait includes most German and the Ki-84 plane sets.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're exactly right but most noobies can't figure this out.

They follow the first inclination which by nature seems to be TnB, or they don't have the patience for BnZ.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


You're also right, but the ability is still there for the taking. The ultimate n00b planes are the ones that can dictate the fight and T&B with the best of them. (Yak-3, La-7 and so on)

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crazyivan1970
04-19-2004, 03:26 PM
Started with 109.. back in IL2 Demo, when IL2 was released switched on 190A5 and flew that baby for like 6 months with mix of G2/G6-AS, then moved to 109s permanently...with a little flavor of 190s still hehe. Never really got into allied planes...maybe with exception of P-39 which i do like alot... and now with AEP i have a thing for P-38, what a treat http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

WUAF_Co_Hero
04-19-2004, 03:28 PM
My personal series of a/c went::

Mig3U (IL-2, not FB)
Yak3 (IL-2, some FB)
Bf109K4 (version 1.0 and 1.1)
FW-190 D-9 (version 1.1 at the earliest)
P-47 D-10 (started in 1.0, but only really
started after the Dora).
Bf109 K-4 (again)
P-47 D-10 (again)
P-38 Lightning (current).

If there's any graduating, I'd say it goes to U.S. high alt. planes. It takes much more patience to fly a Jug correctly, than a FW or Bf.

Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day...

Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life.

Curly_109
04-19-2004, 05:08 PM
agee...

if fly on full real you must spend a lot of time to get used to messerschmitts... i never fly Fw on full real so don't really know about that bird. what i find that almost all allied planes are easier to fly which don't necessarily means that they are BETTER... quite opposite you just have to master your bird.

bf are very powerful plane (except for MG's that are very hard to master on that plane) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

http://www.bibl.u-szeged.hu/bibl/mil/ww2/kepek/planes/pics/mig1_1.jpg

would like to fly this bird http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

BuzzU
04-19-2004, 05:47 PM
If it's got wings, prop, and an engine. I'll take her up.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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T_O_A_D
04-19-2004, 06:09 PM
In the beggining I flew the 109, why because it was the only thing in the Demo I could get off the ground and land safley. Then forced myself to learn that Dang P-39 since I really wanted to fly American. You knowa patriotic thinig deep inside saying what a Dumb Arse you are you can't even fly your own countries bird. Then did some research and found out My own country gave them away because we could't fly them either LOL But since then I have learned to take off anything land anything. I feel a good pilot can ferry any bird anywhere. A good Combat Pilot may only know one or two birds to its upmost abilities.

All I can say If its in the game I'm in the bird at one time or another.

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Steaky_361st
04-19-2004, 06:33 PM
I flew the La5 first, then moved on to the P39 (Still in original IL2).

Those were the good ol days http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Steaky

JoachimvMayern
04-19-2004, 08:33 PM
Since the first il2 demo came out, I flew the 190a5. At least in the first il2 game and have stuck with that, along with bf109s. First time flying that fw109a5, it was a bi_tch to land and turn with.

GvSAP_Dart
04-19-2004, 08:45 PM
I flew the IL-2.

Weird, huh?

Then I flew the LaGG. Then the MiG.

In FB I fly:

The IL-2. Really weird, huh?
I fly the Yak-1.
The P-40 (Northern Fleet).
The '40 Hurricaine (Northern Fleet, again).

The 109/G2 is the sweetest ride in the sim. Absolutely no bad habits, rock solid gun platform with plenty ammo and punch, zooms and turns equally well.

____________________________________
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Franzen
04-19-2004, 09:30 PM
I'm not one to read manuals before playing. I started with the E4 and trained by dfighting 16 Migs in QM until I could kill'em all. When I tried online I was such an easy target(I still thought flaps were for landing only) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gifand gave up the E4 for the A4. Once I got FB I flew the A5 regularly and became a sharp shooter(750-800m, my favorite target range). The guyz asked why I didn't fly the 109 and I said because I couldn't control it. They explained the trim and the flaps to me and from then on it's been 109(G2 my favorite) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif.
I only fly the reds online when the numbers are uneven http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif. It's a sacrifice but it makes the game more fair. From the beginning I've never liked the allied planes(especially La-5 or La-7)because I felt there was little challenge. The axis planes are a little harder to fly but once you get good with them you can beat just about anything. During WW2 the german pilots had lots of flight time and combat experience. If this game is accurate then I think the Luftwaffe aces wouldn't have done so well if all WW2 pilots had equal experience.

I read your post EMitton and have read them in the past. You are definitely a provocative poster. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz Franzen

WUAF_Badsight
04-19-2004, 10:18 PM
i cant disagree more with BP Gemini or BuzzU

first of all BnZ is a form of Dogfighting

second .... BnZ in german A/C is harder to get kills in than BnZ in Allied A/C

one reason for BF's is their weak elevator authority

one reason for FW190s is their horrible foward view

FW190's have poor climb ..... BF's & FW190's bleed speed super quick

i dont agree that its just as easy to fly & get kills in those planes than it is in their comparative Allied plane

as for BnZ being n00bish ....... well staying away from danger AND getting kills requires a different approach to this one :

"im going to find a Bandit & mix it up really close till i get a shot in"

because the approach is different it has things that require you to
1) be patient
2) not be kill greedy
3) has disciplined & accurate shooting
4) have excellent plane performance understanding
5) have excellent E retaining turn understanding

this IMO rules out BnZ being done properly by new players

&

it easy to feel frustrated at some guy who zoomed down from 1 Km above you & killed you in one high speed pass

or who left you shot up

or even who missed but flew away back to safety out of your reach

but even tho fighting AGAINST that kind of attack can make you feel frustrated - seeing as you would like the chance to shoot back at him to prove you are not some uselees ,easy killed player - that does not make the person who sticks to that kind of fight a somehow less skilled player than you are

by not flying stright into a turning fight as soon as you spawn - but by looking for a guy to zoom down on - does not make you a less skilled player than the one who goes stright to the bandit at Co-E looking to knife fight in close till one dies

the BnZer is simply a player who has a different approach to Dogfighting

the BnZer has to have good aim for his small window of opportunity

the BnZer has to have patience ......

its not the tactic simply because you are not a good Turning knife fighter

Resident_Jock
04-19-2004, 11:12 PM
Actually the only time I really played Russian back in the old days was my first time online. I picked a yak 9U and killed like 4 people my first sortie. I was shocked at how easy it was, so I flew the 190 religiously for a challenge. First the A5, then the A8, and then back to the A5. Got pretty good at it too, I loved the supreme BnZ power it had. Now that I can finally play FB and the AEP, I have found that I still fly the 190 when I can (A9 and D9 please) however I am having a torrid love affair with the P38L at the moment http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Mitlov47
04-19-2004, 11:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
BnZ in german A/C is harder to get kills in than BnZ in Allied A/C<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I wholeheartedly disagree.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>one reason for FW190s is their horrible foward view<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ever flown any of the P-47 models besides the D-27? Now THAT is what I call poor forward visibility.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>FW190's have poor climb ..... BF's & FW190's bleed speed super quick<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The P47 doesn't exactly climb like a space shuttle, last time I checked.

Furthermore, the FW-190 has a huge advantage in terms of big-bore weapons. A couple Mk108 or Mk103 rounds sent into an enemy as you blast by them will often finish them off or at least cripple them. Now, hit them with the P-47's widely-dispersed spray of 50 cals FOR THE SAME DURATION and you're much less likely to do critical damage. The 50s require you to sit on someone's tail for a second or two, pumping the rounds into them. And that doesn't work well with BnZ.

Finally, the FW-190 has one of the best roll-rates in the game, whereas the P47 has one of the worst.

I really don't see why it's harder to get kills in a FW190 than a P47. Now, I'm a TnB fighter at heart--I've been so ever since I fell in love with the Sopwith Pup and Fokker DR1 in _Red Baron_--but when you do a side-by-side comparison of the FW-190 and the P-47, I just don't see an argument that the P-47 is so much easier.

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WUAF_Badsight
04-19-2004, 11:30 PM
ok you gave an example with the P-47 ...... thats a highly effective BnZ weapon

& the best high alt fighter in FB ..... PERIOD

but there are only TWO German Fighter

& They both have Major limitations

the BF-109 have HORRIBLE (try to disagree , . . . . no go on ... do try) elevator response when speeds go over 300 kmh .....

the FW-190 have ULTRA bad deflection shooting foward visibility & ultra crappy turning ability restricting them to high speed BnZ deflection shooting

now i BnZ in all planes & TnB in all planes ...... & most of the allied A/C also have limitations

but i find it eaiser to get kills BnZ in Allied A/C than in BF's or FW's

Mitlov47
04-20-2004, 01:21 AM
*shrug*

When I'm in the mood for B&Z, I *always* get more kills with a FW-190a9 than a P-47D-27. Why? It's pretty much as durable, just as fast, climbs much better, and a HELL of a lot more maneuverable and better armed.

You say that the German fighters have "major limitations." Yeah, so do all the planes, especially the American planes:
P-47: terrible roll and turn rate.
P-51: glass jaw, insufficient firepower for BnZ.
P-39/63: Unrecoverable flat spin.
P-38: Giant profile, terrible ammo load, terrible elevator response at high speeds.

You make a big deal out of the fact that there are only two German fighters. Where did this enter the equation? So what? Blame Hitler for not diversifying the Luftwaffe. Or fly Japanese if you want more diversity in Axis craft. But that has nothing to do with whether the FW or the Jug is a better B&Zer--which was the entire point of my last post.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/387_1082406218_spitfiresigsmall2.jpg

WOLFMondo
04-20-2004, 01:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EMitton:
There's no "moral superiority" to being a BnZ pilot. Really, there isn't. It doesn't make you cooler than anyone else. After all, were REAL WWII pilots who flew Spitfires or Zeros somehow "noobs" compared to pilots who flew FW-190s or P-47s? I think not.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

heh...good point.

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Wolfgaming.net. Where the Gameplay is teamplay (http://www.wolfgaming.net)

Mitlov47
04-20-2004, 01:58 AM
To get back to the original question--the statement "noobs don't fly Axis" is 100% wrong. Go to any ubi.com open dogfight server, and this is what you'll find:

AXIS PLANES NEWBS FLOCK TO:
German jets
BF-109Z
Japanese planes

AXIS PLANES NEWBS AVOID:
BF-109
BF-110
FW-190

ALLIED PLANES NEWBS FLOCK TO:
Yak family
LA family
P-38
Spitfire
YP-80

ALLIED PLANES NEWBS AVOID:
P39/63
P40
P47
P51
LaGG family
MiG family
Hurricane family

Looks pretty balanced, huh? There's some "newb" planes and some "advanced only" planes for both the Axis and Allies.

Finally, it should be noted that just because "newbs" like a plane, such as the Spitfire, doesn't mean veterans can't enjoy it as well. After all, I remember reading about a T&B newb by the name of Manfred von Richtoven who was kind of famous, and a newb named Chuck Yeager wanted the most effective killer that was the safest to fly...

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/387_1082406218_spitfiresigsmall2.jpg

Red_Storm
04-20-2004, 02:12 AM
I'll let you in on a little secret. I have been flying the FW-190 ever since we first got it in IL-2. And now I'm flying the D9 (IMHO, the hardest of them all, as it has the crappest turn rate), yes I am ble to outturn both Yak-3's and La-7's. Now, don't tell me I'm bull****ting here. Once you learn to fly it on the edge of a stall, you enter sort of a "stall-turn" envelope in which you're able to make some pretty tight turns and rolls. It takes a lot of practise to be able to fly it correctly.

I think most people fly allied planes because theyre faster to get kills with. For example, a P-51 still outturns anything the Germans have, so online you can get kills with it &gt;faster&lt;. Same goes for the Yak-3 and La-7. The only allied plane which requires real &gt;patience&lt; to fly is the P-47, which handles almost exactly the same as a FW-190, but turns slightly better with a diminished roll-rate.

Giganoni
04-20-2004, 02:21 AM
Hmm, in the Il2 Demo I learned to use the P-39, then with FB I devoted most of my time to the B-239. Then with AEP and the advent of Japanese planes, because I like Japan..and Japanese planes (shocker! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif). I like the Zero and the Ki-84..which I consider a plane good at tnb (not the best) but also able to vertical climb to avoid those pesky La7s..then do some adhoc BnZ.

MatuDa
04-20-2004, 02:36 AM
I agree 100% with Badsight. In the 190 you get a very small window for hitting the enemy if you wanna go fast enough to zoom after the pass. If the enemy is even remotely aware that someone *might* have bad intentions for his landing arrangements then the maneuvering forces a blind shot at him, much more so than most allied planes. The view issue could be inserted here by a bravehearted poster but I won't since I am afraid of the consequences. So I will not say the FW:s best historical attack is ruined by a silly view model caused by wrong head position, the bar, wrong flying attitude and missing optics of thick glass. Nope, won't go there.

Anyways all this leads to a conclusion that:

A n00bie will have a very hard time if he chooses to fly the 190 in a fr df room. He will most likely get a LAda or Yuck after a few tries. It's all done to keep the game interesting. EMitton was right too, there are n00b planes on axis too but the realistic ones aren't easy at all in the beginning. And EMitton, p40 is a n00b plane.

-matuda

Gravity: not just a great idea, it's the law.

hos8367
04-20-2004, 03:50 AM
I started flying 109s becuase prop pitch, fuel mix, supercharger, and radiators all were automatic. automatic = good for noobs. And if the map is pre '43, the Lw planes are generally better anyway.

Snow_Wolf_
04-20-2004, 04:03 AM
Started with the Fw 190 A4, A5 and A8 in first il-2. Stick with them still love all 3 but just add-ed the D9 in there since Il-2 FB now with AEp i add-ed the Me-110. Newbies do fly Axis planes i seen some newbie 190 pilots on hyperlobby.

http://www.cc.jyu.fi/~jtsiekki/mono2.gif

Fehler
04-20-2004, 04:40 AM
I started with the 109G2 in IL2 (Original). I didnt like the 190 back then because it was a serious brick. The only thing it did well was scissor with lots of flap.

Once Oleg fixed the 190 FM, it was all I flew. I love the Dora, still prefer it to all models except the A-5. I am really looking towards the A-6! The A-4 is a good plane above 3k and quite nimble (for 190 standards).

Lately, with the huge influx of LW flyers on my favorite servers, I usually fly VVS to balance the teams. I still tend to stick to energy planes like the P51 or P47. The P51C is my favorite version of the mustang.

Still though, there are other planes that are a lot of fun to fly. The Zero is pretty cool, and if you are flying against P51's and/or P38's you have to be a little crafty at times.

But given my choice, I will fly the 190 A-5 until 1944, and the 190 D-9 afterwards.

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

Billy_BigBoy
04-20-2004, 04:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Platypus_1.JaVA:
Axis might not be that appealing to fly.
A: It generally requires a bit more skill to fight in axis aircraft because

A1: Axis aircraft do generally not turn very well
A2: It takes a bit more patience to fight effectivly in most Axis fighters.

B: People tend to like the aircraft better if it had been in their air-force. Axis aircraft where only used by a small part of the world.

I come from Holland. We fought our five day war with a handfull of fighters. The best fighters we had, where the Fokker G.1's (altough alot of them where destroyed on the ground on the first day) and the workhorse, the Fokker D.XXI.

I would very much wanted to see the D.XXI in the game. I imagine that it will not be a particular effective aircraft in FB AEP but, because our country depended on it for its five day war, I want to fly it.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, the Fokker XXI would be a good idea, even that good because it was flown by Finland too.
And Fokker G.1 was really one of the best planes of its time. We also would need a new map of Holland too...

http://www.forumsigs.com/users/Billy_BigBoy586/Billy_mod.jpg

Cosmonaut.
04-20-2004, 05:08 AM
Flying any fighter is all about knowing your strengths and fighting from a position that will give you an advantage. The only area the German fighters have a disadvantage is in turning with some allied fighters but the 109's can still out turn some of the most popular allied planes that are flown online and in all other areas 109's/190's can outperform and dominate their opponent. They are faster, have armor like a tank, can climb better and have the most immense fire power in the sim. If you find your self out numbered or in a bad situation while flying a 109/190 you can always out run or out climb a fleet of allied planes and escape. However in allied aircraft you don't have that luxury, if you decide to run then you're going to get caught, which makes a lot of planes on the Red side very risky to fly because there is no way to escape if your first pass doesn't come off successfully.

All this talk about my fighter is crappier than yours, no mine is crappier, no I'm Spartacus http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif is really just nonsense. Rookies may choose to fly fighters that turn better but that doesn't mean they fly them well and from what I've seen they seem to be target practice in full real servers when fighting against an experienced opposition. I used to fly the P47 pretty much exclusively but I never felt superior to those that flew the tighter turning planes because I know that comes with its own difficulties. Just because you choose to fly a fighter that doesn't turn as good as some doesn't mean it's more challenging than flying say a Spitfire with limited armor and only a hand full of cannon rounds. To be effective in a Spit you have to get in real close and not waste a single round, which can be difficult when up against a German fighter that is faster and can zoom away like the space shuttle.

The real challenge is to fly well in any fighter that interests you with out letting your inexperience or ego get the better of you.

http://www.freeuploads.co.uk/uploads/cosmo.jpg

‚"divided we fall, together we fly‚"Ě

Airborn_
04-20-2004, 05:19 AM
"Noobs don't fly Axis"

Martial1.. You said it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Naw crap.. I agree fully with Cosmonaut. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

WUAF_Co_Hero
04-20-2004, 05:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EMitton:
To get back to the original question--the statement "noobs don't fly Axis" is 100% wrong. Go to any ubi.com open dogfight server, and this is what you'll find:

ALLIED PLANES NEWBS FLOCK TO:
Yak family
LA family
P-38
Spitfire
YP-80
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You must be playing a very different game than I am. From my experience... any "n00b" that jumps in a P-38, is very VERY soon dissapointed, because they either can't handle the rudder authority, don't know what compression is, flatsping using airbrak, can't aim, aren't ammo conservative, don't know what and who to dogfight when and where... the list goes on.

I have a hard time believing that a n00by would feel as at home in a P-38, as in a ... well any VVS bird, frankly.

Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day...

Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life.

JG52Russkly
04-20-2004, 06:30 AM
Went on-line just after Christmas in a G-6 or K-4 and have been getting creamed in those aircraft ever since! Especially in War Clouds 44+ and TOH, which I love all the same.

I'm trying to acquire the patience to BnZ effectively, but I keep getting dragged into DFs and getting bits shot out of me.

Hadn't really thought about trying Allied planes on-line, as I've always admired German equipment, discipline and tactical nouse (even though I'm a Brit), and I'm also in a German virtual squadron now.

Have recently tried the G-2, which is a bit more forgiving in the turn, and doesn't have the blinding muzzle flash and recoil of the MK-108 30mm. Lacks the pure, brutish speed of the K-4 too, though!

When BoB comes out, however, flying with a squadron of Hurricanes scrambling to meet waves of Do-17s, etc. will be hard to resist!

R

Tully__
04-20-2004, 07:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EMitton:

2) Luftwaffe pilots are proportionately more vocal about the problems with their aircraft's flight modeling? There are some significant problems with USAAF planes too, but there don't seem to be nearly as many threads about the USAAF problems.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let me assure you that the whines are equally loud on both sides!! People just tend to notice the other side's "whines" more than their own "justified comments on flight model defficiencies" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

=================================================


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Salut
Tully

Tully__
04-20-2004, 07:37 AM
As a "n00b" I flew mostly allied, as I was in an allied squad at the time. Now I fly to even the teams, which mostly seems to be allied... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

Initially my time was spent in IL2's, progressing to MiG's, P-39's, & La5FN's. Also spent quite a bit of time in I-16's.

With FB came time in P-47's, P-51's, P-39's, P-40's, MiG's and more time in the old stanbys.

These days I'm comfortable (but no-where near competent) in the Fw190's but never ever came to grips with 109's. I can fly them ok, but they just don't "fit" me right.

=================================================


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Salut
Tully

Franzen
04-20-2004, 07:44 AM
I used to fly ths A5 and tried to master BnZ but as others have said, visibility sucks. BnZ also takes a lot of patience and if your enemy knows what you are about to do he can easily avoid you. But the visibilty was my weakness. I know it couldn't have been that bad in real since the pilot could move his head, we are just too limited in a video game. I got into a kind of semi-BnZ. I would drop down on an enemy but only fire from about 750m. Up close and personal takes away too much visibilty.

I think one point no one has mentioned is the reason for your first choice. It probably had nothing to do with easy or difficult but rather personal preference. My choice was based on the planes I liked the most, Bf109 and FW190. After getting used to flying them I took the reds up for a spin. I just didn't like them due to my experience with the German planes. So, it's quite possible that pilots will stick with the planes they learned to fly. I do fly the reds sometimes when I'm bored but prefer the ones I learnt to fly in.

Fritz Franzen

La7_Baalberith
04-20-2004, 08:07 AM
What a whining again over the axis planes. All a/c have their (dis)advantages. La(gg) have a better turnrate below 3500 then any axis. This is why no german pilot was allowed to engage them below this altitude. The disadvantage is the crappy load it can carry. The FW and BF are way faster then any allied plane in the higher regions of the virtual sky, and they carry the "famous" Mk108/3.

As for another point, i constantly read that La's are n00b planes? what a BS. That's was why all were flying the Yak3, FW and BF's in IL2 i reckon??????

I started with the La5FN in IL2 and i stick with it (La7_ is the tag we use for the Lavochkin Fighter Group) in FB and AEP. It's heavy, carry's only 2 20mm's with a small amount of ammo, cant spray like most FW's and certain BF's.

And yes, i do fly axis planes. I love the E/7, G2 and G6, there fast, agile, turn almost as good as the La5/7 (or whatever n00b plane i hear inhere) but it takes a different tactic to fight off the allied a/c.

We all have our favorite plane in this game, but all i hear is ppl telling others what plane they should fly, or wich should be banned from the servers. I make servers that have all planes flyable, and if i get shot a couple of times by BNZ planes or the funny Ki-C i dont start talking about n00b-planes or banning them from the servers.

Greetings and a lot of fun playing this game,

Remco

Aztek_Eagle
04-20-2004, 08:21 AM
i shoot down ppl the first day i flew il2 online, aswell wiht the cfs2, and the cfs1, cfs1 i used to shoot ppl down wiht the keyboard :S, hey i just shoot u down wiht my keyboard..... they didnt belive it... il2 i flew all planes right away, flew mostly russian, not because they are easy to fly but because i got il2 because i love russian planes, but aswell i flew those deadly german planes right away, and the germans are to noob planes all planes are noob planes, u know some germans climbed like choppers at il2 days, the russian planes are only good against the experienced germans if u know how to fly it well, especialy at high altituds, the germans planes get easy kills towards a noob in a russian plane... so my point is, u need skills on boht side. no noob planes..... i meen, ppl complain when they are flying a bf109 and he keeps getting shoot down by a guy in a i16, and the bf109 call him, ho you and ur noob plane.... in here the only one i see that is a noob is the german guym, as who is idiot enough to turn fight a i16s in a bf109. ( i am able to dogfight i16s in bf109 but u need to know when it is time to brake off the engangement)

http://www.angelfire.com/art2/robertosgallery/CORSAIR8.JPG

Franzen
04-20-2004, 08:27 AM
I think the german planes are usually better, all plane do have their advantages and disadvantages but the german planes are not so "user-friendly" in the beginning. Once you are used to them and if, big "IF", you are a good pilot you'll get lots of kills. Everytime we fly we enter combat and everytime we enter combat we get kills and killed. Not very realistic. I wonder how many times people like Rall entered a combat situation and in the end flew home with all his ammo.

Fritz Franzen

Locust_
04-20-2004, 09:01 AM
What faust said....

When I was new to il2 I was picked up by the 777 squadron, Great bunch of Pilots !!!

Back then the main ride was p39n1 & Il2s, after about 8 months of that went with fwA5/A9.....

kinda progressed to the Dora44 & the k4/g10 after that....

Now I fly all the ac from tb3 to 153 I can bomb your **** from 3000meters or rocket you from from 300 in the p38, turn fight with I-16 or energy fight in the FW.....

Its all good, but takes time to learn, personaly I would never restrict myself to flying only 1 style or 1 ac or only dogfighting, theres to much fun to be had moving mud. also try all styles of hardness/views it will make you better all around virtual pilot.

http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v61/AFJ_Locust/161sig.jpg

Fighter Sweeps is here come join the fun.....
http://alloutwar.com/IL2FS/

Platypus_1.JaVA
04-20-2004, 09:23 AM
Well, My kind of fighting style requires heavy armed and armored aircraft. My typical engagement goes like this: I fly like 1000m higher then my target. The server has no outside view and no icons nor, cockpit off. So, I can come down on my poor target with all guns blazing, making a kill with my first pass. The target should never know what hit him. (if he/she doesn't read the chat bar http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)Did he explode into a million pieces by some lost heavy AA shell? If i did not make a kill, I can climb, locate the now warned enemy and swoop down on him again if the situation permits.

Axis aircraft are more suited to this kind of fighting then allied aircraft (altough I love the spit) My squad flies VVS So, i try to pick-out the heavy planes, with the biggest fire power and not the fast and agile ones.


Altough I admit I am bird for the cat when I happen to get into a turn-fight. I also love to do bomber-runs on the enemy base. Taking a de-tour to their airfield so, I can sneak-up behind the base and blast it into oblivion. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Taking detours is also good for sneaking up onto enemy fighter. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


War is dirty http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

http://server5.uploadit.org/files/JaVAPlatypus-1java.JPG (http://www.1java.org)

BpGemini
04-20-2004, 10:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
i cant disagree more with BP Gemini or BuzzU

first of all BnZ is a form of Dogfighting

second .... BnZ in german A/C is harder to get kills in than BnZ in Allied A/C

one reason for BF's is their weak elevator authority

one reason for FW190s is their horrible foward view

FW190's have poor climb ..... BF's & FW190's bleed speed super quick

i dont agree that its just as easy to fly & get kills in those planes than it is in their comparative Allied plane

as for BnZ being n00bish ....... well staying away from danger AND getting kills requires a different approach to this one :

"im going to find a Bandit & mix it up really close till i get a shot in"

because the approach is different it has things that require you to
1) be patient
2) not be kill greedy
3) has disciplined & accurate shooting
4) have excellent plane performance understanding
5) have excellent E retaining turn understanding<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'm going to have to disagree with your disagreeing. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

This is what I said:
If I wanted to I could debate various definitions of what could be considered n00bie. First off the most trademark n00bie trait is being able to dictate the fight. Most natural B&Zmers have this trait and therefore could easily be considered more n00bish. This existence of this trait includes most German and the Ki-84 plane sets.

Take that for what it is.
Don't read into it though.
I never said learning how to B&Z is easy.
It was for me though.

I hate having to ruffle the feathers of the B&Z or No-Cockpit lovers every time they want to actually attempt their "no this is harder" threads. The reality is B&Z is easier than being in the trenches. You can't tell me that the n00b in the 262 doesn't have it easier than the guy in the P-39. Even if the n00b in the 262 can't shoot worth **** he can still stay out of harms way and dictate the fight until he learns how to shoot better. The guy in the P-39 is stuck learning by the seat of his pants no matter what. The P-39 wont be dictating many fights. You should know that doesn't mean drawing a n00b B&Zmer to his level. It means given the same experience and skill levels the fast (B&Z type) plane IS going to dictate the fight. The other plane has to use patience and take what is given to him.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
this IMO rules out BnZ being done properly by new players

&

it easy to feel frustrated at some guy who zoomed down from 1 Km above you & killed you in one high speed pass

or who left you shot up

or even who missed but flew away back to safety out of your reach

but even tho fighting _AGAINST_ that kind of attack can make you feel frustrated - seeing as you would like the chance to shoot back at him to prove you are not some uselees ,easy killed player - that does not make the person who sticks to that kind of fight a somehow less skilled player than you are<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I personally don't feel frustrated by a B&Zmer. I just stay patient. Take your buddy Snowcat for example. He was flying a P-38 against a bunch of A6M5s. He had the luxury of flying around and choosing when to attack. He got me once IIRC, he got a few others too, but I got him at least twice that I remember in the Zero alone then when we switched to a new map that included a B&Zmer for the Japanese base I got him two more times and he got me none in that map. It's MUCH easier when you dictate the fight and B&Zmers can dictate the fight. PERIOD.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
by not flying stright into a turning fight as soon as you spawn - but by looking for a guy to zoom down on - does not make you a less skilled player than the one who goes stright to the bandit at Co-E looking to knife fight in close till one dies

the BnZer is simply a player who has a different approach to Dogfighting

the BnZer has to have good aim for his small window of opportunity

the BnZer has to have patience ......

its not the tactic simply because you are not a good Turning knife fighter<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I completely agree that B&Zing doesn't make you any less skilled BUT it is laughable to hear B&Z nuts try and say it's harder than being in the trenches or harder than being in a plane that can't dictate as many fights. It's completely laughable.

I disagree a little bit with the aiming issue B&Zers like to bring to the table. Most B&Z planes have the speed to make B&Zing easier. They also tend to have the Gun Platform to make the "window of opportunity" easier. You can't tell me the 262 or Ki-84 Ic has a tougher time hitting it's target than the P-39 with one cannon that many people say they can't hit with and 2-4 50's that shoot cotton balls. Don't get me wrong I like the challenges I face in the P-39 but hoping in a B&Zmer makes me feel like a god with the ease that I can smite the minions below. The trenches are a harder place to learn and survive, period. That doesn't mean B&Z is n00bish or easy, it's just easier than playing in the trenches.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.blitzpigs.com/images/P-39_BlitzPig_Sig_01.jpg
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)

BaldieJr
04-20-2004, 10:41 AM
I started in IL2 with the 109's and graduated to the P40.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

Prof.Wizard
04-20-2004, 06:27 PM
Allied planes (which TnB) are only better for newbies apparently because time restrains make you take-off and fly straight to the enemy when playing a multiplayer dogfight session. So to fly straight to the enemy means never get height, were the German fighters excel (in BnZ).

I had been asking myself the same when I 'felt' dissappointed by Ta-152's behaviour which was supposed to be the best German non-eccentric production propeller fighter of the war. Once you go higher than 3000 it becomes another aircraft... just stay high though!!!

Think about it for a moment. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

-----------------------------
Me-163's HWK 109-509 Rocket Engine
http://www.mihailidis.com/images/HWK109509.jpg

ASM 1
04-21-2004, 02:48 AM
Started in IL-2 Demo with the 109G2 then the P39. Waited 3 months for FB to come out and my "fave planez" list in order of flight has been as folows:

K4 (1.0 - beast http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif )
Hurri IIC field mod ( learnt how to shoot in it)
lots more K4 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
P39 (again)
Started on the 190's:

A4 like in IL2 demo (wasnt that impressed)
lots of A8 (103's and 108's hehe)
back to K4 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
F4 - nice, shame about the armament
E7Z - learnt to switch GM1 off before killing engine!
P47 D10 & D27
G6AS (108 nose cannon oh boy!)
G10 (twin mg gunpods!)
P51 mustang
190 A8 (again) - learnt prop pitch/mix settings
190 A9
LA - 7 (most variants to see what the fuss was about)
190 D9 '45
190 D9 '44

Dabbled in the jets - good fun but not for serious DF/missions (least not for me anyways)

Since AEP

TA-152 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif
More K4 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
109Z - insane, but fun!
Played with jets again (He 162 fav followed by YP 80)
Spit (lovely but a weebit slow for me)
G2 - Like a F4 but with teeth (pods on) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
P38 - not bad if I get it right....growing on me.
P51 D20
KI 84 c (much fun, like a 190 A9 on steroids!)
D9 '45 (compare with TA - prefer TA)
JU 87 D
110 G2 - surprising, looks nice.
more TA -152 LOL! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Of course have had sporadic journeys back into old rides, LA7 G6AS etc

S!

Andrew

Did I mention the TA-152 ?.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

http://home.comcast.net/~nate.r/ta152Hns-2.jpg

ASM 1
04-21-2004, 03:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>So to fly straight to the enemy means never get height, were the German fighters excel (in BnZ).

I had been asking myself the same when I 'felt' dissappointed by Ta-152's behaviour which was supposed to be the best German non-eccentric production propeller fighter of the war. Once you go higher than 3000 it becomes another aircraft... just stay high though!!!

Think about it for a moment. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh Believe me I have and I do! I learned to BnZ in the TA-152 and ever since it has been my fav http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif you are right though, ya gotta stay high and fast, or at least high enough to get fast, otherwise you die! I got in a fight with an AI P63 Ace, down low, couldnt shake it thought I'd had it but managed to manoever enough to make him crash of his own accord!

At 10Km with GM-1 BnZ with B17s and struggling P51s is Sooo much fun. they don't know what's hit them http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

S!

Andrew

I like the TA 152 so much I've even got one in my sig LOL! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://home.comcast.net/~nate.r/ta152Hns-2.jpg

Jazz-Man
04-21-2004, 03:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Platypus_1.JaVA:
Axis might not be that appealing to fly.
A: It generally requires a bit more skill to fight in axis aircraft because

A1: Axis aircraft do generally not turn very well
A2: It takes a bit more patience to fight effectivly in most Axis fighters.

B: People tend to like the aircraft better if it had been in their air-force. Axis aircraft where only used by a small part of the world.

I come from Holland. We fought our five day war with a handfull of fighters. The best fighters we had, where the Fokker G.1's (altough alot of them where destroyed on the ground on the first day) and the workhorse, the Fokker D.XXI.

I would very much wanted to see the D.XXI in the game. I imagine that it will not be a particular effective aircraft in FB AEP but, because our country depended on it for its five day war, I want to fly it.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

http://www.1java.org

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fact.

S!
William "Jazz-Man" Katz
Squadron Batman
RAF No.74 Squadron
www.raf74.com (http://www.raf74.com)
http://home.sou.edu/~katzw/images/signature.jpg

Jumoschwanz
04-21-2004, 04:08 PM
I always flew axis form day one. Why? Because I always admired the germans as engineers and builders of fabulous machinery that is art.

I can't remember when i started flying Il2 online, it was a long time ago. With each patch the handling of the axis planes could change drastically. Many patches had the E and F model 109s handling on par with most of the vvs planes, and many patches had the axis planes handling like total crap compared to the vvs.

Through all the patches the VVS handling was usually as good or better than axis in turn and burn. And the VVS durability/ability to take hits was just as good or better.
So anyone who got in the game on a patch that trashed the handling of axis flew the VVS unless for other reasons they were loyal to the axis planes.

NO matter how good the 190 handles now it is hard to hit things with it's limited forward view.
Then of course. If you have the heart that evening and the skill, you can do well flying anything against anything. I have shot down jets and 109Zs with I-153s and I-16s and buffalos.

Old (Hyperlobby) age and treachery beats youth, enthusiasm, and uber planes everytime. !

Jumoschwanz