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View Full Version : How Would a Monk/"Unarmed" Hero Work?



High-Horse
08-09-2017, 06:31 PM
I've been brainstorming ideas for a martial arts specialist using only fist weapons/gauntlets to supplement kicks and punches. While trying to keep this as balanced as possible, I have to say if there was anything remotely resembling this class, I'd never play anything else. I also really don't want to run into another Cent/Shin OP-fest, just something unique, fun, and above all healthy for the overall game, so point out things that look over the top.

To start, it would be classed as a Heavy-Assassin Hybrid, counter-attacker/disabler. Slow dodges like Nobushi, health on par with Berserker, reflex guard. No gender-lock. Average stam pool, low cost damage attacks, above average regen.

4 combo chains:
- LL (jab, knee)
- LH (jab, roundhouse)
- HL (snap kick, elbow)
- HH (snap kick, shoulder bash)

Landing second hit of chain grants hyperarmor for 3 seconds/consumed on next attack dealt or taken and opens 3 options:
- Start another 2 hit chain that cancels the hit recovery frames.
- Tiger Palm Strike, unblockable melee attack slower than Warlord Headbutt that deals heavy stam damage and causes light (internal) bleed damage for 4 seconds. Subsequent attacks during bleed deals small stam damage. Punishable if dodged. Heavy Attack Finisher.
- Guard Break.

Landing HH combo stuns and staggers an opponent that is locked onto you/unlocked. High stamina cost.

GB contributes to first hit of chain, Throw does not.

Backhand: Low damage, Light Side dash attack, cancels dodge on activation and comes from opposite direction of dodge (like Nobushi's heavy dash attacks), has superior block on startup, and starts chains.

Elbow Smash: Heavy Forward dash attack, Stuns on hit, staggers on Block. Comes from the top, straight down on the enemy's head. Telegraphed and punishable, but pretty fast (~600-700ms). High stam cost. Starts chains.

Heavy attacks can be soft-feinted by Dodge.

A successful dash attack can be followed up with a Quickgrab, only throws like Centurion.

Zone attack is a quick Roundhouse followed by a feintable low sweep that knocks down enemies but is unsafe on Block.

Parry animation is the Monk catching the enemy's weapon between her hands.

That's all I got so far. What else do you think could fit into this vision? I imagine a Heavy Back dash attack like an Orochi's Stormrush to dodge and punish whiffs. Maybe an Armbar grapple move on Unbalanced enemies that disables their Guard for a short time after wakeup (not a fan of this idea in 4v4 but seems unique). Maybe more effects for landing each combo, like with HH?

Thanks for reading!

High-Horse
08-09-2017, 06:46 PM
edited

troeltoll
08-10-2017, 06:11 PM
I love this idea!

I have a couple thoughts for you...

I think some type of gauntlet is necessary otherwise blocking/parry wouldn't make much sense. Grabbing weapon between hands might work for some weps but not all of them. IE shugoki, any dual wielder.. (some kind of walking stick could also work that is basically used almost entirely for defense)

I don't know how fast their light jab would be, but if it is pretty fast (it should be, right?) then the sped up animation on a light after 2 hit chain might be too fast. So I think following up a 2 hit chain with Tiger Palm Strike and something else would work better. Since TPS shares keybind w/ GB they won't be able to follow up chain with a GB so they definitely need more than just TPS to follow up chain or they will be very predictable. Also, should TPS be chargeable (hold for increased effect) and/or feintable.

Maybe after 2 hit chain they can do a buffed up zone attack. Maybe goes straight into the low sweep that would knock the person down. (too much like Valk?)

I don't want to make this hero too similar to Nobushi but I think they would be a very cool character for some kind of hidden stance, is there a way for hidden stances to the side? and maybe they could feint their attacks into this stance?

I think I need to read your post again to fully absorb your intentions for the hero but will have to do that another time...

Overall sounds like a great Hero that I would definitely be excited to play!

High-Horse
08-11-2017, 03:33 AM
I have a couple thoughts for you...

I think some type of gauntlet is necessary otherwise blocking/parry wouldn't make much sense. Grabbing weapon between hands might work for some weps but not all of them. IE shugoki, any dual wielder.. (some kind of walking stick could also work that is basically used almost entirely for defense) I like the idea of a staff for parries (but then why not just be a steel bo staff wielder, which would also be awesome!), and yes they'd be fist weapons up to the elbow, I'd imagine. "Unarmed" is in quotes because they would have all the necessary protections for a fantasy fighting game.


I don't know how fast their light jab would be, but if it is pretty fast (it should be, right?) then the sped up animation on a light after 2 hit chain might be too fast. So I think following up a 2 hit chain with Tiger Palm Strike and something else would work better. Since TPS shares keybind w/ GB they won't be able to follow up chain with a GB so they definitely need more than just TPS to follow up chain or they will be very predictable. Also, should TPS be chargeable (hold for increased effect) and/or feintable. Oh, by faster animation, I just mean the chain startups can cancel the recovery frames of the second successful combo hit. The attacks would still have the same startup time. The enemy might still be hit staggered, so the LL>LL>LL>LL combo would have to be dealt with somehow. *Edit: Maybe there is no LL combo! I was going for like a Kung Fu Master's version of a Berserker's infinite chain, without being too infinite.

Maybe TPS is actually activated as a Heavy Finisher for any of the chains, so GB is still available to use?


Maybe after 2 hit chain they can do a buffed up zone attack. Maybe goes straight into the low sweep that would knock the person down. (too much like Valk?) I really like this idea, and while I'm not a huge fan of CC in a game like this, I like the risk/reward. Also, this knockdown is not UB, so it's a free GB if you try and get blocked.


I don't want to make this hero too similar to Nobushi but I think they would be a very cool character for some kind of hidden stance, is there a way for hidden stances to the side? and maybe they could feint their attacks into this stance? I was thinking this could be a very effective Feint hero, so perhaps hard Feinting a Heavy could have brief i-frames to dodge melee and damage attacks? Allows avoiding an attack and a guaranteed Light being able to attack from a Feint during their whiff recovery frames. That would be awesome timing Feints perfectly like that.


I love this idea!
Overall sounds like a great Hero that I would definitely be excited to play! Thank you!

DoodTheMan
08-11-2017, 03:37 AM
This is one of those characters where I'm like "yes please that sounds awesome even though he's way too complicated for me to ever play properly."

High-Horse
08-11-2017, 04:10 AM
This is one of those characters where I'm like "yes please that sounds awesome even though he's way too complicated for me to ever play properly."

I would hope it would be an approachable hero with a high skill ceiling. I guess it would be a bit of a mix of Nobushi and Zerker, with recovery cancels, relentless combos, feints, and dodges. Holding your ground by taking risks and countering with combos and mixups.

Jarl.Felix
08-11-2017, 11:04 AM
Omg :)) dude just created his most perfect OP dream hero.

All i can read is knocks,. stuns, throws, zone attack who feints into another lowsweep with knowck :)) what the **** ? :))

Heavy feints into GB, poison (how he does that? he has poison on his palms?:))

Why not giving him Chuck Norris fist who deals 2000 dmg ?=))

High-Horse
08-11-2017, 03:08 PM
Omg :)) dude just created his most perfect OP dream hero.

All i can read is knocks,. stuns, throws, zone attack who feints into another lowsweep with knowck :)) what the **** ? :))

Heavy feints into GB, poison (how he does that? he has poison on his palms?:))

Why not giving him Chuck Norris fist who deals 2000 dmg ?=))

Hey thanks for the bump! And the 24% reading comprehension.