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View Full Version : A plea to the community from a Centurion main



Knight_Raime
08-05-2017, 09:46 PM
I've tried in the past to defend the centurion specifically because I truly believe people are resorting to complaining rather than learning how to deal with him. I understand how bad he can be in 4v4. I have always disagreed about him being "op" in 1v1 though. So I figured rather than trying to explain for the millionth time i'd try a different approach. So here I go.

As a Centurion main i'm not blind to how frustrating he can be (I played vs him quite a bit last night in realistic elimination) and I get where people are coming from. It's hard to tell what he's going to do sometimes. I understand how punishing it feels to make a simple mistake. He's got a lot of potential things he could do. and if you're someone who's not used to his animations or what his kit has to offer I deff see how frustrating that is. I'm also aware that centurion is the only hero in the game that has a "50/50" with a soft feint GB. and while I don't believe that in itself is overpowered I DO understand that him being the only one with that makes it feel stupid and unfair.

I've said it before and i'll say it again. I'm NOT against him being nerfed. He's going to have to be considering the ptr changes coming. However his nerfs have to be smart. there isn't a simple fix that covers his 4v4 and his 1v1 problems. And you don't want to risk hurting him too much in either. I will leave 4v4 changes to the community as I primarily play 1v1 and occasionally brawl. However here are the suggestions i'd make to nerfing him (assuming the ptr changes we saw go into effect) specifically for 1v1.

~reduce his stamina damage overall. Kind of needed considering how OOS will be post PTR. He's got enough stamina drain attacks that will more than make up for the nerf.

~Currently you can get a guaranteed uncharged heavy after doing his parry punish (parry+GB) and I believe it's possible to get either an uncharged jab or a kick for free. Though i've never tried. We can just remove all of that. the stamina damage it does (while will be nerfed) is still going to be high enough to be worth doing. and the fact that it behaves like deflect (closes the gap from ranged parried attacks) is also giving it value.

~Centurion will not be able to follow quick throws or the parry punish (parry+GB) with a guaranteed kick.

~nerf the stamina damage and the actual damage of the charged heavy> charged Jab> pounce.

These changes would overall make him more understandable. But still with combos and good damage/stamina damage. Just not as punishing as it used to be.

However...and please stick with me. The centurion should also be buffed due to these suggested changes and PTR changes. i'm not going to bore you with explaining why a bunch of his kit isn't useful at the moment and still really wouldn't be post ptr. The main thing I want people to understand is that the reason he feels so good is because of his potential punishes. But the ptr changes will take away a lot of that. and these nerfs would take away more. The centurion just doesn't have a way in. Please just look at the suggested buffs. And try to think of them with the ptr changes in mind. Not what is currently on live.

~Make quick throw harder to tech. Quick throw doesn't give you anything other than a kick right now. and that's even if you land it. You can't get any damage off of it. Nor can you change where it throws them. The one thing it CAN do is wall splat. Which will be fine enough as a potential mix up to splat someone since centurion is about using his environment more than other heros. So they need to change the timing on it.

~Give superior guard/block on his charging heavy. It would only apply to the START of the animation. Basically like conq. which does this to block a move and get a free attack in. This would be centurions way in. At worst he's gotten a 20 damage heavy in on you. at best he's now got you in his soft feint game. This also fits considering his heavies currently deny feints for the most part. and he's basically built around heavies instead of lights like most people.

~Give a new combo to the centurion. Parry punish into light. That light would be considered the second light in his light light heavy combo. So he could from there either throw in a heavy which could be blocked. Or he could try to use it to get into his soft feint mix up.

~Make his zone cancelable if the first or second hit connects. Not on block.

~Give him a light>heavy combo.

~lastly make it so his uncharged jab is safe from GB.

The changes I propose give him a way in. gives another combo to go for other than trying to only rely on a charged heavy. Which means 1v1's and 4v4's become more interesting. since either combo would be good in both. and neither would be better than the other. The current combo would be more guaranteed damage than the latter combo. (but less damage now that nerfed) but it would be harder to do. where as the parry combo would have less actual damage and more stamina damage. But with the potential to mix up for some damage. Both would have a clear use. and both's benefits are tied to later on in the combo. and not at the start. meaning choice has to come in. His zone will feel less clunky. QT will be some what useful. and light into heavy would also give his lights more use. along with potential mix up.

in short these nerfs and buffs combined I feel fix his current issues. whilst making him the combo hero he was designed to be. but also making him easier to understand/less ****ty feeling to deal with. I specifically wanted to keep his soft feint mix up in because with the new changes to GB GB's in general will be less relevant. Which I like. But they still need a use.

So I want EVERY hero to have a way to soft feint a designated attack into a gb. Ideally this would be on a move that they can combo into.
I also want every hero to have a light into heavy combo. and be able to soft feint a light into their zone. all for mix up reasons. Anyway. I hope you guys who dislike centurion can actually look at my proposed changes and agree with some of the buffs. or at least agree that if we do the suggested nerfs along side the PTR that he'll have to be buffed in some fashion.

Thanks for taking the time to listen to a Cent main.

CandleInTheDark
08-05-2017, 09:55 PM
As a peacekeeper main who has been through all this I tend to be more understanding ;)

I do think that a rework is in order same as I was talking about with my own main yesterday, more than nerf him or buff him, over time fix some things one way and some things another and I strongly believe that those players who are not in denial that something in their main needs to change are most useful to the devs.

My main issue isn't so much the centurion, it is crowd control as a whole. I once dodged a cent, got tripped by a valk, got floor pinned by the original cent and another because why wouldn't they if they can, if that hadn't killed me I would still have eaten a valk heavy I couldn't have blocked. It is why they are right in that they need to fix him in 4v4 without wrecking him in 1v1.

Lyskir
08-05-2017, 09:58 PM
sounds good

Alustar.exe
08-05-2017, 09:59 PM
I could also see these breaking up the repeated use of kicks and jabs to keep a person from actually seeing the fight. I like the attention to detail you have of the class, too. No wonder your getting hate being a Cent main lol!

Knight_Raime
08-05-2017, 10:12 PM
As a peacekeeper main who has been through all this I tend to be more understanding ;)

I do think that a rework is in order same as I was talking about with my own main yesterday, more than nerf him or buff him, over time fix some things one way and some things another and I strongly believe that those players who are not in denial that something in their main needs to change are most useful to the devs.

My main issue isn't so much the centurion, it is crowd control as a whole. I once dodged a cent, got tripped by a valk, got floor pinned by the original cent and another because why wouldn't they if they can, if that hadn't killed me I would still have eaten a valk heavy I couldn't have blocked. It is why they are right in that they need to fix him in 4v4 without wrecking him in 1v1.

Yeah I can agree general CC in 4v4 centurion or not is a bit insane. Part of the reason I don't really enjoy 4v4. Team fights just feel bad in this game.

Knight_Raime
08-05-2017, 10:15 PM
sounds good

Thank you for taking the time to read and give your input. (:


I could also see these breaking up the repeated use of kicks and jabs to keep a person from actually seeing the fight. I like the attention to detail you have of the class, too. No wonder your getting hate being a Cent main lol!

Yeah the overall goal was to make him more understandable/less punishing feeling wise. Like while you CAN get a jab or a kick in more than one way I personally don't do it or see it often at my skill level because either it doesn't happen or it's not worth going for. Which resulted in my skewed understanding of what other deal with. Last night in realistic elimination was a real eye opener for me about dealing with centurions.

Butonfly
08-05-2017, 10:18 PM
The #1 complaint I've seen about Centurion had nothing to do with frustration or OP'ness, rather that he was unfun to fight against in matches due to how he functions mechanically. Thus he ruined the game post Season 2. Something that can't be "fixed" with nerfs.

That said, nerf away. You'll see less of him the less effective he becomes.

BudgetParrot118
08-05-2017, 10:19 PM
To be honest as it stands now as far as Improvement dismissing the Centurion however I think the game is fair skill if you removed all these stamina attacks shoves carries in that s*** if it was just striking and parrying I think it be pretty fair and balanced. When it comes to stamina drain characters life pull versus their stamina pool in coordination with a larger life pull means slower heavies that's a trend I've noticed. Its not like the game is totally trash.

Again the problem is that you have these moves that add spice and also speed up the process of a round or combat (because let's be honest if you have someone really good at the game it's going to be a hit Perry into another hit then a Perry and another hit and another Perry so on and so forth till they're out of stamina over and over again resulting in a stalemate)

So I'm not saying they all need to be removed because the game would kind of be boring without each character having a special attack or special move sets that are unique to their own fighting style they just need to be implemented in more of a controlled anti-spam way that's where all the source of our pain comes from.

Again dismissing centurion because his build is total fodder.

Knight_Raime
08-05-2017, 10:34 PM
The #1 complaint I've seen about Centurion had nothing to do with frustration or OP'ness, rather that he was unfun to fight against in matches due to how he functions mechanically. Thus he ruined the game post Season 2. Something that can't be "fixed" with nerfs.

That said, nerf away. You'll see less of him the less effective he becomes.

From what I've seen (and been told via messages on my platform) the complaints are usually: he's unfun because of his pin combo, his cc in 4v4, and his damage/stamina damage.

I have to disagree. I believe you can tone down his frustration by removing some of the places he can do things in and nerfing the overall damage/stamina damage.

Knight_Raime
08-05-2017, 10:36 PM
To be honest as it stands now as far as Improvement dismissing the Centurion however I think the game is fair skill if you removed all these stamina attacks shoves carries in that s*** if it was just striking and parrying I think it be pretty fair and balanced. When it comes to stamina drain characters life pull versus their stamina pool in coordination with a larger life pull means slower heavies that's a trend I've noticed. Its not like the game is totally trash.

Again the problem is that you have these moves that add spice and also speed up the process of a round or combat (because let's be honest if you have someone really good at the game it's going to be a hit Perry into another hit then a Perry and another hit and another Perry so on and so forth till they're out of stamina over and over again resulting in a stalemate)

So I'm not saying they all need to be removed because the game would kind of be boring without each character having a special attack or special move sets that are unique to their own fighting style they just need to be implemented in more of a controlled anti-spam way that's where all the source of our pain comes from.

Again dismissing centurion because his build is total fodder.

I think his design is fine. It just needs polishing. I disagree with him being anything close to spammy. then again I play 1v1. I can't speak on 4v4. Though 4v4 is and imo always will be a spam fest of moves. wether its stam drain attacks or safe moves.

Alustar.exe
08-05-2017, 11:37 PM
I think his design is fine. It just needs polishing. I disagree with him being anything close to spammy. then again I play 1v1. I can't speak on 4v4. Though 4v4 is and imo always will be a spam fest of moves. wether its stam drain attacks or safe moves.

I think that's the biggest problem facing this community is the sciscm between the duelists and the team fighters. Probably will be as long as it's around. I can say I personally got the game because I thought it was going to be a team fighter, much larger than the current 4v4 setting. That aside I can say Ubi has their hands full trying to keep that tentative balance of duels and group fights. I feel I've been good about giving them props when they are due, but I feel they weren't exactly prepared for what this game "could be" when they started putting the pieces together. It will take time and I hope all something good comes from this. It's been a hell of a ride, I seriously haven't had this consistent of an adrenaline rush playing a game since I was a kid taking out mega man bosses.

Knight_Raime
08-05-2017, 11:44 PM
I think that's the biggest problem facing this community is the sciscm between the duelists and the team fighters. Probably will be as long as it's around. I can say I personally got the game because I thought it was going to be a team fighter, much larger than the current 4v4 setting. That aside I can say Ubi has their hands full trying to keep that tentative balance of duels and group fights. I feel I've been good about giving them props when they are due, but I feel they weren't exactly prepared for what this game "could be" when they started putting the pieces together. It will take time and I hope all something good comes from this. It's been a hell of a ride, I seriously haven't had this consistent of an adrenaline rush playing a game since I was a kid taking out mega man bosses.

yeah. That's why most of the time whenever I interject my opinion I make it clear that my reply is coming from a duelist perspective. I come from the group of people who migrated from the dark souls series. So dueling is where I was going to be at. I liked 4v4 at launch when no one knew makes punishes or had the timing down for things. but 4v4 when played by a smart group of players is literally trapping someone into a decision of eating a hit or eating a stamina bash attack.

I'm hoping the revenge changes from PTR change that. as it sucks that I can't play with my full group of friends. I still think feats need to be moved around in their tiers and some need to be redesigned entirely. some of the nerfs they did were good. but a lot were not. I also think hero stacking shouldn't be possible. and spawns need to be loads better. But considering how much work it would take to make 4v4 proper fun (in my opinion) i'm actually more glad they are working on the fundementals first (which just so happen to also strongly effect duels)

I don't think 4v4 will ever be in a state I could enjoy on a serious level.

UbiJurassic
08-06-2017, 01:08 AM
Great thread and discussion, Knight_Raime. A lot of those purposed changes seem rather reasonable. There's also a lot of great feedback in the comments section here as well. I'll be sure to note them down and pass them along to the team.

Knight_Raime
08-06-2017, 01:18 AM
Great thread and discussion, Knight_Raime. A lot of those purposed changes seem rather reasonable. There's also a lot of great feedback in the comments section here as well. I'll be sure to note them down and pass them along to the team.

much appreciated. :>

BudgetParrot118
08-06-2017, 04:47 AM
I think his design is fine. It just needs polishing. I disagree with him being anything close to spammy. then again I play 1v1. I can't speak on 4v4. Though 4v4 is and imo always will be a spam fest of moves. wether its stam drain attacks or safe moves.

Here's a little gift. I mean no offense by this but for you to say that I literally just lost all your credit with me I can't help but feel at this point you're just biased.


At first, no it's not that I am unable to beat centurions, even good ones.
But I agree, that fighting a Cent is more stress then fun.

There are many things wrong with the Cent, and you all know those things:
- his stamina pool and consumption
(for everyone who does not know how "critical" this case is, here a video i did long ago)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbR2bII0Ja4

Thats so fair :D
The real problem here is, his feints do NOT consume stamina... and second problem, he has a 40% higher stamina pool, compared to every other hero.

- his stamina drain - if he gets you with a combo, instant OOS, have fun

- his Melee attacks are useable on hit or block

- he has a fast Guardbreak and he can softfeint with it to mix it up

- Heavy attacks as fast as light attacks

and so on ... in total, he has much more advantages then disadvantages.

One small mistake, and you lose half of your life (or more) and all your stamina.

BudgetParrot118
08-06-2017, 04:54 AM
I've literally seen people with the opinion of that Centurion was good that he was overpowered because he encourages teamwork to take him down

I've read that it was good that he was overpowered and really what we all need to do is use him and play with him for a while and then we can learn his moves and find his weakness.

Either way the problem is he has issues all across the board and advantages above other characters and it's just absurd.

From my experience aside from the stuns the kicks the grabs and ultimately what I call spams even though it's a legit combo in the developers eyes I guess

There's no reward for getting past his BS you dodged all his moves he does that one stab that follows you then he does a punch or pins you and starts the combo over again and his stamina is ridiculous and by the end of it he still has more stamina than you to kill you mean while you lay on the ground for the finishing Grand Finale jumping stab

I've played the game for hours trust me if there was a way to legitimately beat him I would find it but there really isn't unless you get another Centurion or you use lawbringer again that's still not a guarantee because I don't use lawbringer and I'm not familiar enough with his moves to even spam his shove correctly to get my hits in. I'm a viking faction nothing short of maybe getting lucky enough to carry him off a ledge with a raider. I can't actually fight against this character.

In all honesty I should be able to beat him with any character you shouldn't have to change characters to beat someone.

I play for 6 hours at a time sometimes. I've played over a course of three months everyday.

Knight_Raime
08-06-2017, 05:42 AM
@BudgetParrot118

cool beans. If you're going to be that way i'm just not going to reply to you anymore. I've seen how you post in other threads and haven't muted you yet because I haven't specifically interacted with you much. But I disagree with you once and you basically stuff your retoric down my throat. Not cool.

Also I've been playing a LOT longer than you. Not that it really matters anyway. The fact that you write me off as biased is kind of why i'm dropping him as a main.
Frankly i'm sick of people discounting anything I say just because I play him. It doesn't matter if I give decent counter points. It doesn't matter if I give my uncensored experiences.
heck. I even made this thread ADVOCATING nerfs for him. But no.

Just because I don't specifically agree with your opinion on his kit i'm biased. Yeah. Makes total sense. I'm just not even going to give you another shot.
consider yourself muted. Have a nice day/evening.

BudgetParrot118
08-06-2017, 06:30 AM
Okay, anger.... Not intended result. You may need some balancing as well.

Chill

Don't take it personal. To me you're just words. Likewise am I.

I'm not saying your bad or anything I just think because you play him there is a conflict of interest, and an unintionak bias.

I didn't think that in your thread post. Then you're response to me was where I gave my opinion.

Rhetoric? unfortunately even though stated facts with video evidence.

Trust me if I could. I would take my time dissecting centurion down to his empire. I just don't have the abilities to upload and edit videos to prove what the developers already know. I find it a waste of time.


Well if I'm rhetoric you be diatribe. Okay...?


Seriously don't get, upset. I'm only messing with you to some degree. I really am,not trying to start anything.

I think the proof is what upsets you not me. I gave my time in the game to prove my familiarity with it.

If the game gets to be unbearable. As loyal as I am I leave.

In not far from it as of now. I hate the idea of,needing and buffing. Quite, frankly,the project obviously needed more time in development and we the players are stuck in this wizard of oz scenario hoping to speak to the developers. When in reality this limbo we are all in when it comes to the game and the cause of a lot of arguments on this forum shouldnt be.

To ve honest this type of development is highly unprofessional in the eyes of commerce and the exchange of money for definitive goods or services.

Warlord glitches tonight. Rediculously slow then he speeds up then slow.

The poor guy is so fat that he catches every corner glitch and gets hung up unable to,move. Repetitive issue...leading to KDA drops.


Did I,mention doing executions I haven't paid for.

I really am going to be optimistic about season three. So far its looking like for the most part,I just have to assume my ancestry, faith, people was just another victim of exploitation via inclusiveness indoctrinations for a fast buck appeal to the masses of capitalism.

Live and learn right?

Mia.Nora
08-06-2017, 08:34 AM
I am not going to discuss Centurion in current meta since it is bound to be gone soon(?). I will just point out the problems with in PTR changes;

1. Parry Punish: They need to significantly reduce stamina damage from that knee, also make it so that he doesn't get a free kick on top of it. Otherwise his parry play will outclass every other
class. (WL also needs that addressed)

2. Stamina Pool: His stamina pool is utter nonsense, has to be brought down to same level as everyone else. No other hero can maintain their successful offensive pressure as much as Centurion can maintain his failed one (with more stamina cost due to fail). With changes coming to OOS, he can not retain his stamina pool/consumption as is.

3. Stamina drain on normal attacks: This one has to go away completely. Stamina management should be on the player managing their own stamina with their own attacks, not other way around.

4. Chip Pressure due to Heavy>Soft GB: I don't know if anyone encountered that, but a Centurion who mixups his heavies with soft GB was real deadly in PTR. Simply put you have to sit there and take the chip as long as he keeps up the pressure, because you cant risk dodge attempts due to soft GB, neither parry attempts for both instant GB threat (0-100ms was enough for soft GB succeeding vs parry attempt), as well as his heavy timing being adjustable you cant do it with motor reflexes the way you do vs other heroes.. He also doesn't care about his own stamina pool and can easily chip away a large chunk almost risk free. Heavy>soft GB needs to cost a lot more stamina to be less spammable.

For 4v4, they need to make it so that his 6 second stunlock (pin>jab>knockdown) is broken free (at any stage) if someone else attacks the target and problem will be mostly solved.

Alustar.exe
08-06-2017, 11:50 AM
Okay, anger.... Not intended result. You may need some balancing as well.

Chill

Don't take it personal. To me you're just words. Likewise am I.

I'm not saying your bad or anything I just think because you play him there is a conflict of interest, and an unintionak bias.

I didn't think that in your thread post. Then you're response to me was where I gave my opinion.

Rhetoric? unfortunately even though stated facts with video evidence.

Trust me if I could. I would take my time dissecting centurion down to his empire. I just don't have the abilities to upload and edit videos to prove what the developers already know. I find it a waste of time.


Well if I'm rhetoric you be diatribe. Okay...?


Seriously don't get, upset. I'm only messing with you to some degree. I really am,not trying to start anything.

I think the proof is what upsets you not me. I gave my time in the game to prove my familiarity with it.

If the game gets to be unbearable. As loyal as I am I leave.

In not far from it as of now. I hate the idea of,needing and buffing. Quite, frankly,the project obviously needed more time in development and we the players are stuck in this wizard of oz scenario hoping to speak to the developers. When in reality this limbo we are all in when it comes to the game and the cause of a lot of arguments on this forum shouldnt be.

To ve honest this type of development is highly unprofessional in the eyes of commerce and the exchange of money for definitive goods or services.

Warlord glitches tonight. Rediculously slow then he speeds up then slow.

The poor guy is so fat that he catches every corner glitch and gets hung up unable to,move. Repetitive issue...leading to KDA drops.


Did I,mention doing executions I haven't paid for.

I really am going to be optimistic about season three. So far its looking like for the most part,I just have to assume my ancestry, faith, people was just another victim of exploitation via inclusiveness indoctrinations for a fast buck appeal to the masses of capitalism.

Live and learn right?

I'd like to know where someone gets off calling someone's biased when they have shown very little to indicate this through their posts, then when they take offense you tell them to calm down!? Dude you may not be trying, but you're trolling none the less. How about you listen to a little of Raime's posts a little and maybe you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the Centurion as OP and out of your league.
And Raime don't bait into **** like this. I'm really sick of cheap **** half assed teenagers and kids sitting on these forums and calling everyone who doesn't agree with them a biased ubifanboy or claiming they have no skill because they play "X" character. I know the label put on Centurion players well, I'm a PK and we get as much, if not more because assassin classes. You just do you and do t bother with these asshats.

CandleInTheDark
08-06-2017, 11:54 AM
biased
adjective

-- unfairly prejudiced for or against someone or something.


I would like to know where in this suggesting nerfs for your own main before talking about anything else fits.

Knight_Raime
08-06-2017, 11:56 AM
I am not going to discuss Centurion in current meta since it is bound to be gone soon(?). I will just point out the problems with in PTR changes;

1. Parry Punish: They need to significantly reduce stamina damage from that knee, also make it so that he doesn't get a free kick on top of it. Otherwise his parry play will outclass every other
class. (WL also needs that addressed)

2. Stamina Pool: His stamina pool is utter nonsense, has to be brought down to same level as everyone else. No other hero can maintain their successful offensive pressure as much as Centurion can maintain his failed one (with more stamina cost due to fail). With changes coming to OOS, he can not retain his stamina pool/consumption as is.

3. Stamina drain on normal attacks: This one has to go away completely. Stamina management should be on the player managing their own stamina with their own attacks, not other way around.

4. Chip Pressure due to Heavy>Soft GB: I don't know if anyone encountered that, but a Centurion who mixups his heavies with soft GB was real deadly in PTR. Simply put you have to sit there and take the chip as long as he keeps up the pressure, because you cant risk dodge attempts due to soft GB, neither parry attempts for both instant GB threat (0-100ms was enough for soft GB succeeding vs parry attempt), as well as his heavy timing being adjustable you cant do it with motor reflexes the way you do vs other heroes.. He also doesn't care about his own stamina pool and can easily chip away a large chunk almost risk free. Heavy>soft GB needs to cost a lot more stamina to be less spammable.

For 4v4, they need to make it so that his 6 second stunlock (pin>jab>knockdown) is broken free (at any stage) if someone else attacks the target and problem will be mostly solved.

1) I already said that the stamina damage on it should be brought back in my suggested nerfs.

2) That's kind of not really..raider has more stamina than everyone else. And gladiator is going to as well. I could see maybe bringing it down some. but moving it to the same level is no. Because he is supposed to be comboing. he needs the extra stamina. If you want to make his pool smaller you gotta make his moves cost less stamina.

3) stamina drain on normal attacks..what?

4) I'd be more than happy to increase the cost of his soft feint game if the rest of his kit gets the buffs i suggested.

I will not comment on 4v4 changes.

Knight_Raime
08-06-2017, 11:59 AM
I'd like to know where someone gets off calling someone's biased when they have shown very little to indicate this through their posts, then when they take offense you tell them to calm down!? Dude you may not be trying, but you're trolling none the less. How about you listen to a little of Raime's posts a little and maybe you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the Centurion as OP and out of your league.
And Raime don't bait into **** like this. I'm really sick of cheap **** half assed teenagers and kids sitting on these forums and calling everyone who doesn't agree with them a biased ubifanboy or claiming they have no skill because they play "X" character. I know the label put on Centurion players well, I'm a PK and we get as much, if not more because assassin classes. You just do you and do t bother with these asshats.

Yeah i'm sick of it too. Now you know why I don't want to play centurion anymore.
I'm afraid to even like one of the next heros coming. as either of them will surely be called OP.
Like. I legit sometimes don't want to post here. I enjoy some of the discussions I have here. But i'm starting to wonder if it's worth considering how many people write me off over trivial nonsense.



biased
adjective

-- unfairly prejudiced for or against someone or something.


I would like to know where in this suggesting nerfs for your own main before talking about anything else fits.

It doesn't fit. the guy like many other people has a personal thing against centurion. and according to those people that's a sin of mine. and thus nothing I say is valid.

CandleInTheDark
08-06-2017, 12:09 PM
It doesn't fit. the guy like many other people has a personal thing against centurion. and according to those people that's a sin of mine. and thus nothing I say is valid.

Yeah peacekeepers get this quite often as well, apparently we all, every single one of us, do nothing but spam lights and Zones. Honestly I learned to firstly figure that if people are claiming op, they are looking for excuses as to why they lost since I know I do not do that and I made posts like yours here since I figured any constructive views were useful to the devs.

Knight_Raime
08-06-2017, 12:30 PM
Yeah peacekeepers get this quite often as well, apparently we all, every single oe of us, do nothing but spam lights and Zones. Honestly I learned to firstly figure that if peopleare claiming op, they are looking for excuses as to why they lost since I know I do not do that and I made posts like yours here since I figured any constructive views were useful to the devs.

yeah I saw your suggestions on pk. sad that they got covered up by jerks.

Alustar.exe
08-06-2017, 12:57 PM
A lot of the changes Candle, Gray and a few others had for PK would have solved everything and no one heard them cause everyone was crying that PKs needed to literally be nerfed into non existence. So we feel your pain Raime. Welcome to the club where they hate us cause they ain't us! ;)

CandleInTheDark
08-06-2017, 01:38 PM
A lot of the changes Candle, Gray and a few others had for PK would have solved everything and no one heard them cause everyone was crying that PKs needed to literally be nerfed into non existence. So we feel your pain Raime. Welcome to the club where they hate us cause they ain't us! ;)

Yeah that is the thing, in terms of the PK you couldn't just nerf what the problem to begin with was now because they have nerfed very nearly everything else, she needs a rework if anything is going to change drastically now. In terms of the centurion, he is in a decent place 1v1 and that is why it is such a fine balancing act because the devs rightly don't want to stiff his mains when it comes to things like duel.

BudgetParrot118
08-06-2017, 02:44 PM
I think his design is fine. It just needs polishing. I disagree with him being anything close to spammy. then again I play 1v1. I can't speak on 4v4. Though 4v4 is and imo always will be a spam fest of moves. wether its stam drain attacks or safe moves.

I clearly said in the original thread post he didn't come across biased or she don't know the gender don't really care.

I have repeat yet again this remark is why I gave my,opinion. Attempting to clarify.

The One V one remark is why I said I think they're biased. The way you all are acting over the fact of me saying this person is biased also refers to your own bias.

I did not personally insult someone I didn't say anything really degrading. You all are starting to act like high school kids with your little groups. All the while ironically accusing me I think of being a teenager.

In my last post I gave a detailed argument about how ultimately all these arguments are kind of pointless to some degree and kind of laughable. At the end of all of it all I want is a playable game.

Again you dismissed the evidence. You dismiss the facts.

Fixing the stuff that was mentioned in the post on centurion I posted. Is a lot more than (polishing)

BudgetParrot118
08-06-2017, 03:08 PM
Here's a little gift. I mean no offense by this but for you to say that I literally just lost all your credit with me I can't help but feel at this point you're just biased.

Clearly in my post I quoted what was the remark I had an issue with.

1v1 he is an issue. That's my opinion. The reason I said they lost all merit with me was because I read the thread and I didn't think so at first.

I post facts and make valid factual issues. Then said posters little sunshine pals focus on one remark I said all the while referencing the main post that I said I don't have too much of an issue with.

I still don't agree with everything of the main thread post. Either way, I didn't call that remark bias now did I?

The one I did call bias I clearly quoted.

BudgetParrot118
08-06-2017, 03:28 PM
That's the thing as well.. Never had too much issue over peace keeper.

When I first started playing I got matched against someone whose main is pk...

I lost and lost and lost..for hours... But that was due to my skill. Not OP....

I don't care if I win or lose as long as I'm having fun don't get me wrong losing consecutively kind of sucks but either way I'm not one of those people that's a winning *****.

I just want tasteful realistic combat. Like with EVERY OTHER character.

In my region as of late you can't have a round without centurion, or lawbringer.

That's awkward and extremely coincidental.

Jiblet2017
08-06-2017, 09:28 PM
Nice Post Knight. Good objective suggestions. I appreciate your distinguishing between 1's and 4's (in which a large protion of the player-base obviously sees him as a problem is a serious problem).

Ill be interested to see how UBI handles this moving forward. However, I think it would be a mistake to leave his 4's as strong as it is.

Knight_Raime
08-06-2017, 10:19 PM
Nice Post Knight. Good objective suggestions. I appreciate your distinguishing between 1's and 4's (in which a large protion of the player-base obviously sees him as a problem is a serious problem).

Ill be interested to see how UBI handles this moving forward. However, I think it would be a mistake to leave his 4's as strong as it is.

Well they are looking at diminishing his 4v4 with other cents in the patch dropping with season 3's start. However the wording seems like they are going to be treating all CC that way.
(that being disabling the CC move on the inflicted target within a window of time preventing another cc from hitting him) if they do that it would be a good way to make 4v4 a lot more about actual fights rather than having 2 bullies CC you while others damage you.

RLTygurr
08-06-2017, 10:54 PM
Personally I think the solution is to change the way his fully charged heavy and fully charged punch works.

I say let him keep the ability to pin his opponent with a fully charged heavy, but make his fully charged punch not knock someone to the ground. Instead, it guarantees eagle's talons in a different way. CC that easy to use in even a 2v1 situation with that strong of an impact is just too much to handle. Add eagle's talons to the mix and you have roughly 3-4 seconds of pure CC where the opponent can't even block attacks unless they have revenge to activate.

Maybe the solution (if they really wanted to keep him with that amount of teamfight strength) is to make it so he can only use his punch upon landing a heavy, rather than simply using it. Currently, you can punch whether or not your heavy even is blocked. That's pretty ridiculous if you ask me. At least if it has to land, a skilled player can avoid being pinned and punched to the ground easier.

UbiNoty
08-06-2017, 11:33 PM
Well they are looking at diminishing his 4v4 with other cents in the patch dropping with season 3's start. However the wording seems like they are going to be treating all CC that way.
(that being disabling the CC move on the inflicted target within a window of time preventing another cc from hitting him) if they do that it would be a good way to make 4v4 a lot more about actual fights rather than having 2 bullies CC you while others damage you.

While we are trying to make these changes to all forms of CC, centurion is one of the primary targets that we have in mind. We just feel that overall, gameplay would benefit from a change in how CC mechanics work rather than just changing Centurion.

Alustar.exe
08-07-2017, 01:03 AM
While we are trying to make these changes to all forms of CC, centurion is one of the primary targets that we have in mind. We just feel that overall, gameplay would benefit from a change in how CC mechanics work rather than just changing Centurion.
I would take time with this. A error in the right place could prove very problematic. I hope for the best!

Knight_Raime
08-07-2017, 02:04 AM
Personally I think the solution is to change the way his fully charged heavy and fully charged punch works.

I say let him keep the ability to pin his opponent with a fully charged heavy, but make his fully charged punch not knock someone to the ground. Instead, it guarantees eagle's talons in a different way. CC that easy to use in even a 2v1 situation with that strong of an impact is just too much to handle. Add eagle's talons to the mix and you have roughly 3-4 seconds of pure CC where the opponent can't even block attacks unless they have revenge to activate.

Maybe the solution (if they really wanted to keep him with that amount of teamfight strength) is to make it so he can only use his punch upon landing a heavy, rather than simply using it. Currently, you can punch whether or not your heavy even is blocked. That's pretty ridiculous if you ask me. At least if it has to land, a skilled player can avoid being pinned and punched to the ground easier.

For the former I wouldn't know how that would look in game. You'd probably have to explain with more detail.

For the latter it's true he can still punch even if his heavy is blocked. however as far as i'm aware the jab isn't guaranteed to land. and even if it does it only gives a light. I'm not convinced that it needs to be changed. but that's from a 1v1 perspective.

Knight_Raime
08-07-2017, 02:05 AM
While we are trying to make these changes to all forms of CC, centurion is one of the primary targets that we have in mind. We just feel that overall, gameplay would benefit from a change in how CC mechanics work rather than just changing Centurion.

haha sweet. Glad I understood the wording. I would seriously hop back into dominion just to try out that change if it applies to all CC eventually.

TheTKOShow
08-07-2017, 02:07 AM
Get ready to start all this gripping with the high lander I said it.

CandleInTheDark
08-07-2017, 02:12 AM
Get ready to start all this gripping with the high lander I said it.

It will be the Gladiator on the consoles, he is the quick one with stamina to burn.

Mia.Nora
08-07-2017, 04:41 AM
1) I already said that the stamina damage on it should be brought back in my suggested nerfs.

2) That's kind of not really..raider has more stamina than everyone else. And gladiator is going to as well. I could see maybe bringing it down some. but moving it to the same level is no. Because he is supposed to be comboing. he needs the extra stamina. If you want to make his pool smaller you gotta make his moves cost less stamina.

3) stamina drain on normal attacks..what?

4) I'd be more than happy to increase the cost of his soft feint game if the rest of his kit gets the buffs i suggested.

I will not comment on 4v4 changes.

1. Good we agree

2. As far as I know Raider has 130 stamina, while Centurion 170. Frikking 170!!!! You think this is normal? Just watch the video posted on this thread where it show for how long he can go without running out of stamina. I am not asking *nerf*, I am asking for balance, why the hell should centurion be exclusively a stamina giant. With OOS changes coming he has to be on same level with everyone else.

3. As far as I know he is capable of draining stamina with his heavy pins. Correct me on that if I am wrong.

4. No buffs needed really especially in PTR format he is much stronger than he currently is. If he starts to fall short (which wont) only then he can get his HP boosted to allow for more mistakes on his part. First he needs to be brought down to normal levels.


If you fail to see what I meant with his PTR power read my post that you replied here again. He is the only hero who doesn't need to play mind games vs parries. He can just randomly go between heavy/charged heavy/soft GB without paying much attention to what enemy is doing, and force you to just rely on block taking chip. Soft GB seems like no big deal since it can be teched, but its real problem lies in the other options it takes away from opponent. You can not risk neither parry nor dodge due to soft GB (not same with regular feint-GB if they bring PTR back you can check it, other heroes can not bait parry and GB punish it, Centurion's random soft GBs catch that 0-100ms quite often)

Knight_Raime
08-07-2017, 05:03 AM
1. Good we agree

2. As far as I know Raider has 130 stamina, while Centurion 170. Frikking 170!!!! You think this is normal? Just watch the video posted on this thread where it show for how long he can go without running out of stamina. I am not asking *nerf*, I am asking for balance, why the hell should centurion be exclusively a stamina giant. With OOS changes coming he has to be on same level with everyone else.

3. As far as I know he is capable of draining stamina with his heavy pins. Correct me on that if I am wrong.

4. No buffs needed really especially in PTR format he is much stronger than he currently is. If he starts to fall short (which wont) only then he can get his HP boosted to allow for more mistakes on his part. First he needs to be brought down to normal levels.


If you fail to see what I meant with his PTR power read my post that you replied here again. He is the only hero who doesn't need to play mind games vs parries. He can just randomly go between heavy/charged heavy/soft GB without paying much attention to what enemy is doing, and force you to just rely on block taking chip. Soft GB seems like no big deal since it can be teched, but its real problem lies in the other options it takes away from opponent. You can not risk neither parry nor dodge due to soft GB (not same with regular feint-GB if they bring PTR back you can check it, other heroes can not bait parry and GB punish it, Centurion's random soft GBs catch that 0-100ms quite often)

Except reducing his stamina pool to the average heros pool IS a nerf to him. I already pointed out to you that he's a hero that is built around comboing with constant pressure.
and I already said if you wanted to do that you'd have to reduce the cost of stamina on his moves. If you can't see that I don't know what else to tell you.

I can go back and check. but I don't believe pins ever did stamina damage.

He only becomes stronger in PTR via the way of what happens when someone is OOS. his kit still needs buffs overall. especially since the PTR removes his light parry punish. and you're actively asking for the devs to nerf the only decent thing in his kit in a 1v1 situation. annnnnd you've lost me.

You've clearly never fought as a centurion in a high skill setting in a duel. You can change when you soft feint all you want. It will be predicted and teched. I'm not saying his soft feint game isn't strong because it is. But what you're saying is nonsense. Centurion wether you like it or not isn't a brain dead I win button against people who actually know what they are doing. And centurion lacks any way in on someone. let alone the fact that his one good thing that isn't a parry punish can't even be done from neutral.

Mia.Nora
08-07-2017, 05:38 AM
You've clearly never fought as a centurion in a high skill setting in a duel. You can change when you soft feint all you want. It will be predicted and teched. I'm not saying his soft feint game isn't strong because it is. But what you're saying is nonsense. Centurion wether you like it or not isn't a brain dead I win button against people who actually know what they are doing. And centurion lacks any way in on someone. let alone the fact that his one good thing that isn't a parry punish can't even be done from neutral.

We clearly will never agree since you think him having %50 more stamina over everyone else is balanced, so we can agree to disagree right there.

I will just drop this and leave this thread; I do NOT say he is a braindead I win button. But in comparison other characters who has to work their *** off for every bit of damage they get in like berserker, Kensei, conqueror; centurion is way more easier to pressure and get damage in; all the while retaining very strong punish on defensive actions.

You fail to see where he is in comparison to other heroes and just judge him in himself. IF he is balanced, then most of other heroes needs a HUGE improvement to be brought to his level with new tools. Since we both know that is not happening, like ever, only sensible thing is asking for balance by bringing him (and WL) down.

Because balance is not having counters, or being balanced within itself; balance is different characters being on par with their kits. And he is absolutely not inline with other characters, especially in PTR changes with parry and OOS dangers.

peace out

BudgetParrot118
08-07-2017, 06:10 AM
I'm not discussing this,any further for the sake of my posts dominating the goal and, integrity of the original thread.

So how's your chance to pop in and say all the nasty things I guess and get the last word if you get your jolly off of that.

The person posting this has their own views that I shouldn't attempt to out shine or out post. Or attempt to silence.

Just saying.... I stand by my posts and my opinion. I've made my point but I don't. Believe in kicking or trying to ride a dead horse.

Again knight_raime I don't want to give you the impression im a total troll. I apologize if during exspressing my view point it some how came across personally. Wasn't my intention. Look forward to your future posts.

Knight_Raime
08-07-2017, 06:34 AM
We clearly will never agree since you think him having %50 more stamina over everyone else is balanced, so we can agree to disagree right there.

I will just drop this and leave this thread; I do NOT say he is a braindead I win button. But in comparison other characters who has to work their *** off for every bit of damage they get in like berserker, Kensei, conqueror; centurion is way more easier to pressure and get damage in; all the while retaining very strong punish on defensive actions.

You fail to see where he is in comparison to other heroes and just judge him in himself. IF he is balanced, then most of other heroes needs a HUGE improvement to be brought to his level with new tools. Since we both know that is not happening, like ever, only sensible thing is asking for balance by bringing him (and WL) down.

Because balance is not having counters, or being balanced within itself; balance is different characters being on par with their kits. And he is absolutely not inline with other characters, especially in PTR changes with parry and OOS dangers.

peace out

I never said I thought him having hugely more was balanced. and I wish you wouldn't strawman me on that. I am only trying to get you to acknowledge that he generally consumes more stamina to do what he does to other people. and that straight up bringing him down to a normal heros stamina would be hurting him more than you're realizing. I wouldn't care if they brought it down a little. I'm just saying the ONLY way you can make centurions stamina pool the same as someone elses is by cheapening his more expensive moves. Otherwise he's just going to be damn near out of stamina if not OOS from doing his pressure.

Which while that might sound "balanced" to you it removes his intended goal (which is to get someone to OOS for pressure) and makes him objectively worse than other people. Raider and zerker both have insane OOS punishes. and they basically go to OOS or near it to do so. but their normal kits/moves don't heavily rely on having a lot of stamina. they can do a decent bit of mix up/feint baiting and stay comfortable stamina wise. Centurion cannot. his damage is low per hit. he's got no way to get in on someone other than parrying. and his big pay offs are all behind expending most of his stamina. So again. straight up dropping his stamina pool to normal levels with no tweaks to his stamina use would literally break the character.

Kensei yes. zerker debatable. conq yeah. Saying centurion is easier to get things out of compared to some of the lower end heros isn't saying much. Second sentence is agreeing with my overall point. I suggested nerfs to him along side the PTR changes for those very reasons. You just for whatever reason seem to believe he's capable of getting in on someone easily. and that the rest of his kit is perfectly fine. I've debated to the ends of the earth in other threads about this.

I appreciate how you manage to stay civil for the most part compared to most people who disagree with me. It's why I haven't muted you. I just believe you have a little bit of a personal problem with him considering how some of your past replies about him have been. and that no matter what I or any other person might bring up that is in the defense of or in the favor of some buffs after he's nerfed you just won't agree on principal. I suppose that's fine. we can agree to disagree.

Knight_Raime
08-07-2017, 06:46 AM
I'm not discussing this,any further for the sake of my posts dominating the goal and, integrity of the original thread.

So how's your chance to pop in and say all the nasty things I guess and get the last word if you get your jolly off of that.

The person posting this has their own views that I shouldn't attempt to out shine or out post. Or attempt to silence.

Just saying.... I stand by my posts and my opinion. I've made my point but I don't. Believe in kicking or trying to ride a dead horse.

Again knight_raime I don't want to give you the impression im a total troll. I apologize if during exspressing my view point it some how came across personally. Wasn't my intention. Look forward to your future posts.

For the record when I said "you're the reason I don't wana play centurion anymore" I wasn't referring to you alone. In general people seem to just have a vendetta against centurion. I get why. I tried appealing to that in this thread. Something i've never done in this thread. I thought I managed to skirt people claiming bias at me or other similar things by suggesting nerfs as well. Since you apologized i'll go ahead and tell you why I don't agree with that video you sent.

I've ignored the video because frankly it doesn't prove anything. All it shows is that he's got more stamina. which everyone knows. What it DOESN'T show is how much stamina he has to expend on a single move compared to others. Nor does it show how much stamina he expends in order to get the damage he gets on some people. Like. Most of the combos I end up throwing out leave me at about half my stamina. If i've got 170 stamina that's 85 stamina. How much does the normal heros have? I think it's 120. My point being in order to get comparable damage or more as a centurion I usually have to expend more stamina than the average hero. this is because I'm trying to string multiple hits in.

He can get some pretty crazy damage numbers beyond his parry punishes if he's managing to land every single thing. But because centurion has a lot of unsafe moves and there are plenty opportunities to escape or counter what he's doing the amount he's doing is not consistent and spikes all over. TLDR: the video is one sided. an accurate comparison would be to take each hero's confirmed combos and figure out how much stamina and damage they get. then get their optimal combos. and compare that to centurions average combo and optimal combo.

I agree his overall stamina damage should be toned down post PTR. and some of his combo damage. along with removing his light parry punish (which should be gone post ptr anyway.) and i'd be more than happy to have his overall stamina pool be decreased so people can reasonably get him into OOS post PTR. but in order for that to happen he'll need his moves to cost less. Otherwise he's going to end up with poor damage output and rarely be able to do combos.

Also I don't think you're a troll. the excessive cussing in most of your posts is off putting to me. and calling me biased hit a sore spot. i'd be more than willing to remove you from my ignore list in a few days if more of your posts are along the lines of this one i'm quoting.

brashtralas
08-07-2017, 07:02 AM
So what are we arguing, here?

That he's balanced right now, but if he HAD to be changed, these are the changes you'd prefer?

Or that he is actually imbalanced, and these are the changes that would balance him?



I mean, I know what I believe, but I'm curious what you actually think.

Furthermore, has too much damage already been done?

I've mentioned here several times that I have repped up a centurion, but the constant insistence that I just need to play him more to understand him by some forum members convinced me to do just that.

As before, most people simply leave the match after I kill them once. Others say wow! repeatedly or thanks! Then; good fight! Good fight! Good fight! When they manage to kill me or kill me in a group.

Was I cheesing? Was I griefing?

Nope, I was only playing the way the centurion is designed to play.

Furthermore, does it even matter about whether or not something is "balanced" when a huge portion of the player base will actively accept a quit penalty to avoid it? Or worse, quit the game completely?

I know some people hate me mentioning it, but fun should also be a huge factor. It says something when most people would rather face the warlord, who can literally win every fight without fail so long as there is a ledge nearby.

Then, to top it off, does any of this discussion matter? Even the most staunch defender can see that the centurion has managed to avoid nerfs like other classes have. Even shinobi experienced a pretty significant nerf, and he was released on the same day as the centurion.

This shows me that Ubisoft has plans specifically for the centurion, and really don't have any intention of veering from that path. Making balancing discussion a futile matter.

Whelp, I'm off to make some more people quit. I do love the centurions style, and his executions are top notch.

Side note: I also have many balancing issues with other classes, even my own "mains." So this isn't a bias, it's simply the most damaging imbalance at the moment, in my opinion.

Knight_Raime
08-07-2017, 11:31 AM
So what are we arguing, here?

That he's balanced right now, but if he HAD to be changed, these are the changes you'd prefer?

Or that he is actually imbalanced, and these are the changes that would balance him?



I mean, I know what I believe, but I'm curious what you actually think.

Furthermore, has too much damage already been done?

I've mentioned here several times that I have repped up a centurion, but the constant insistence that I just need to play him more to understand him by some forum members convinced me to do just that.

As before, most people simply leave the match after I kill them once. Others say wow! repeatedly or thanks! Then; good fight! Good fight! Good fight! When they manage to kill me or kill me in a group.

Was I cheesing? Was I griefing?

Nope, I was only playing the way the centurion is designed to play.

Furthermore, does it even matter about whether or not something is "balanced" when a huge portion of the player base will actively accept a quit penalty to avoid it? Or worse, quit the game completely?

I know some people hate me mentioning it, but fun should also be a huge factor. It says something when most people would rather face the warlord, who can literally win every fight without fail so long as there is a ledge nearby.

Then, to top it off, does any of this discussion matter? Even the most staunch defender can see that the centurion has managed to avoid nerfs like other classes have. Even shinobi experienced a pretty significant nerf, and he was released on the same day as the centurion.

This shows me that Ubisoft has plans specifically for the centurion, and really don't have any intention of veering from that path. Making balancing discussion a futile matter.

Whelp, I'm off to make some more people quit. I do love the centurions style, and his executions are top notch.

Side note: I also have many balancing issues with other classes, even my own "mains." So this isn't a bias, it's simply the most damaging imbalance at the moment, in my opinion.

The thread point was me suggestion nerfs and buffs for him. and the discussion is relevant because the developers are always looking for feedback.
Also I will not name who. But i've had a mod specifically ask for my exact changes feedback a bit back to give to the devs. and just in this thread a seperate one jotted down the suggestions and will pass them onto the team. So. the feedback is being heard.

I've had people before and after shins nerf quit after I killed them in a duel. that behavior isn't unique or new to the game. centurion is merely the games current punching bag.
I would gladly debate with shins nerfs. they were not "significant" they simply removed a specific playstyle that happen to be what most people used him for.

All and all I think you're making unsupported claims based on your flawed perception. And I don't really appreciate that you basically skirted around any of the actual discussion here.
If you truly did believe discussion on this was pointless than you should have simply just not bothered to put a reply here.

xSkeletalx
08-07-2017, 03:50 PM
Personally, I absolutely hate dealing with the Centurion, regardless of which mode I'm facing him in. I play Duel the most, but a fair amount of Dominion too. My top three classes are the Warlord (rep 17), Berserker (nearly Rep 5) and the Nobushi (Rep 4).

I'm not following some of the logic being discussed here; using the numbers above, if a Centurion uses half of his stamina on a combo, he's at 85/170. If we assume that 120 is the standard stamina amount as above, a different character spending the exact same amount of stamina is down to 35/120. Clearly a non-Centurion character is in a much weaker position and should be backing off to regain stamina unless their opponent is about to die. A Centurion doesn't have that problem, and can keep up pressure much longer; that's even without the completely insane stamina-swing that comes when he lands any of his stamina draining attacks.

I don't understand why the Cent should have access to more stamina AND such an ability to remove his opponent's. To me, it never feels like a Centurion is taking much of a risk by constantly pressuring - why shouldn't he face the same risks as everyone else? If he spends 85 stamina, why shouldn't he be at as much risk as other characters for running his supply so low? The Centurions I typically face are also able to make normally unsafe things safe due to his incredibly fast heavy - the number of times I've gone for a guard break against a Cent who is standing still or just whiffed a kick/jump attack and watched it bounce off before the heavy animation was even visible is incredibly frustrating, it seems like his heavies don't even have the same vulnerability during startup.

I'm not entirely sure how the "soft feint" works, but I have certainly seen it - a heavy suddenly turns into a GB, which seems to be unreactable; maybe I'm just reacting too slowly, maybe it's an issue with the 30fps lock, but as someone who uses hard feint GBs during Berserker combos, it is an incredible difference in visual timing. The last time I heard of something like this was when the bug existed which allowed you to cancel a GB attempt into an attack. It may not be exactly the same, but again, why shouldn't the Cent follow the same rules that other characters do and have to spend extra stamina to manually hard cancel the heavy to go for that grab? I know you said you want every character to have the ability to soft feint into a grab, but I personally think it should be removed from Cent and nobody should have access to it.

Regarding the idea of superior block on his charged heavy; why do you feel he needs that? The various charge times on the heavy make it a move which is more difficult to parry, and it always seemed to me that it was intended as more of an approach opener than something he was intended to throw out in immediate proximity. Treat it like the Warden's shoulder bash, if it must have some sort of armor; if the heavy is charged long enough the armor appears. Even that might not be right, considering in my experience the pin from the charged heavy beats everything anyway. I don't think I've seen that damn thing trade even once without still pinning me anyway.

Cancelable zone on hit seems reasonable; I don't know whether that will be easy to do programming-wise; does any other character have something that works this way? Genuinely curious if there's something I don't know about.

Light -> heavy combo I have no problem with.

Attempting to ignore the bias I have against the Centurion, I still struggle to see him needing any major buffs, honestly. Obviously there are the PTR changes coming up, as well as a theoretical rebalance at the start of S3, but as it stands I believe the Centurion snowballs far too hard. Making one mistake against him is more punishing than any other character I can think of if we're ignoring the potential of ledging/hazards. I'm not the best player, but I'm far from the worst. I don't lose to every Centurion I fight (whether in 4v4s or Duels) but I don't find him enjoyable to fight against the way he is.

I hate that the team took the path they have with the Centurion. Visually, conceptually, he's awesome. The way his moveset feels, though, is abusive with little risk. I'd like them to remove or heavily reduce the stamina damage he does with his kick and his punches rather than allowing him fast strikes AND stuns AND stamina damage. Leave the stun state, as that should allow him to play the same mixup game every other character who can stun has, maybe even reduce the stamina consumption of the attacks. The tracking and tracking distance is incredibly frustrating too; some of that is a lack of personal practice, but I think there's room for adjustment there too.

"The main thing I want people to understand is that the reason he feels so good is because of his potential punishes." If we take this and apply it to other characters, doesn't it feel kind of wrong? My main is a Warlord; I have the potential to ledge you from a good distance away, which clearly people hate. I don't like it either, because I like to fight as opposed to winning via ring out. Shugoki players liked to use the Oni Charge into heavy, but nobody liked having it happen to them. The Cent isn't supposed to be a turtling defender, so I don't really think the parry changes undeservedly weaken him. I'm curious as to why you don't feel his moveset won't give him a way to open an opponent once these changes are in place.

Knight_Raime
08-07-2017, 11:08 PM
Personally, I absolutely hate dealing with the Centurion, regardless of which mode I'm facing him in. I play Duel the most, but a fair amount of Dominion too. My top three classes are the Warlord (rep 17), Berserker (nearly Rep 5) and the Nobushi (Rep 4).

I'm not following some of the logic being discussed here; using the numbers above, if a Centurion uses half of his stamina on a combo, he's at 85/170. If we assume that 120 is the standard stamina amount as above, a different character spending the exact same amount of stamina is down to 35/120. Clearly a non-Centurion character is in a much weaker position and should be backing off to regain stamina unless their opponent is about to die. A Centurion doesn't have that problem, and can keep up pressure much longer; that's even without the completely insane stamina-swing that comes when he lands any of his stamina draining attacks.

I don't understand why the Cent should have access to more stamina AND such an ability to remove his opponent's. To me, it never feels like a Centurion is taking much of a risk by constantly pressuring - why shouldn't he face the same risks as everyone else? If he spends 85 stamina, why shouldn't he be at as much risk as other characters for running his supply so low? The Centurions I typically face are also able to make normally unsafe things safe due to his incredibly fast heavy - the number of times I've gone for a guard break against a Cent who is standing still or just whiffed a kick/jump attack and watched it bounce off before the heavy animation was even visible is incredibly frustrating, it seems like his heavies don't even have the same vulnerability during startup.

I'm not entirely sure how the "soft feint" works, but I have certainly seen it - a heavy suddenly turns into a GB, which seems to be unreactable; maybe I'm just reacting too slowly, maybe it's an issue with the 30fps lock, but as someone who uses hard feint GBs during Berserker combos, it is an incredible difference in visual timing. The last time I heard of something like this was when the bug existed which allowed you to cancel a GB attempt into an attack. It may not be exactly the same, but again, why shouldn't the Cent follow the same rules that other characters do and have to spend extra stamina to manually hard cancel the heavy to go for that grab? I know you said you want every character to have the ability to soft feint into a grab, but I personally think it should be removed from Cent and nobody should have access to it.

Regarding the idea of superior block on his charged heavy; why do you feel he needs that? The various charge times on the heavy make it a move which is more difficult to parry, and it always seemed to me that it was intended as more of an approach opener than something he was intended to throw out in immediate proximity. Treat it like the Warden's shoulder bash, if it must have some sort of armor; if the heavy is charged long enough the armor appears. Even that might not be right, considering in my experience the pin from the charged heavy beats everything anyway. I don't think I've seen that damn thing trade even once without still pinning me anyway.

Cancelable zone on hit seems reasonable; I don't know whether that will be easy to do programming-wise; does any other character have something that works this way? Genuinely curious if there's something I don't know about.

Light -> heavy combo I have no problem with.

Attempting to ignore the bias I have against the Centurion, I still struggle to see him needing any major buffs, honestly. Obviously there are the PTR changes coming up, as well as a theoretical rebalance at the start of S3, but as it stands I believe the Centurion snowballs far too hard. Making one mistake against him is more punishing than any other character I can think of if we're ignoring the potential of ledging/hazards. I'm not the best player, but I'm far from the worst. I don't lose to every Centurion I fight (whether in 4v4s or Duels) but I don't find him enjoyable to fight against the way he is.

I hate that the team took the path they have with the Centurion. Visually, conceptually, he's awesome. The way his moveset feels, though, is abusive with little risk. I'd like them to remove or heavily reduce the stamina damage he does with his kick and his punches rather than allowing him fast strikes AND stuns AND stamina damage. Leave the stun state, as that should allow him to play the same mixup game every other character who can stun has, maybe even reduce the stamina consumption of the attacks. The tracking and tracking distance is incredibly frustrating too; some of that is a lack of personal practice, but I think there's room for adjustment there too.

"The main thing I want people to understand is that the reason he feels so good is because of his potential punishes." If we take this and apply it to other characters, doesn't it feel kind of wrong? My main is a Warlord; I have the potential to ledge you from a good distance away, which clearly people hate. I don't like it either, because I like to fight as opposed to winning via ring out. Shugoki players liked to use the Oni Charge into heavy, but nobody liked having it happen to them. The Cent isn't supposed to be a turtling defender, so I don't really think the parry changes undeservedly weaken him. I'm curious as to why you don't feel his moveset won't give him a way to open an opponent once these changes are in place.


Thank you for your detailed response. I appreciate it greatly.

1) My point I was trying to make with my response to parrot above is that while Centurion might be able to pressure longer compared to other heros he's also consuming a lot more stamina than the average hero in order to get comparable damage. And that in general a lot of what he can "spam" is easily broken out of. There are 3 instances where this isn't the case. Inf combo in a corner. His light parry punish. and the extended combo after parry counter. Inf combo is situational (and can be removed for all I care.) light parry punish is going to go away with PTR parry changes anyway. and the extended combo after parry counter I already said should go. If he's going to get a smaller stamina pool to make it more realistic to get hom OOS post PTR his more expensive moves need to be brought down so he can retain his identity as a combo character.

2) Centurion denies most feint bait games. But there are still some he can't beat (like zerkers.) However post PTR no one is going to be able to feint bait into GB on heavies anymore due to the 100ms guard break start up delay change they made. So centurion won't be a special case anymore. Also his speedy heavies don't make anything more safe. It just means he can trade in some instances. which goki is capable of doing. and nearly everyone is capable of doing VS shins DD kick. There are probably more instances of safe trading that I can't think of. cent is just the most common one.

3) Soft feint is basically canceling one animation with another. Hard feinting is what you're used to where you cancel with the B button. It's deff your reaction time. I play on console and have people reg escape my soft feint mix ups. If we removed centurions soft feint from the game he'd have no viable mix ups. Period. And to an extension if we didn't include my idea and the PTR changes go live GB's will be very niche and hardly see any use. it would make the game that much more predictable. Which is one of the reasons why the defensive meta is such an issue. Mix ups are needed. Guessing games are not "fun" for those who play casually. And I can respect that. But for honor is heading in a competitive direction. and in order for that to be fully supported and actually work we need MORE mix ups and guess games. Not less. Also for the record centurion isn't the only one who has access to soft feints. He's simply the only one with a GB soft feint. Raider, bushi, zerker, PK are the ones that come to my mind immediately. I'd have no problem if they cleaned up the soft feint animations so they looked more fluid and less janky.

4) At my level of play the charge timing of his heavy doesn't matter if i'm in neutral. it's blocked or parried. Superior block on start up would give centurion a way in. Again a major reason why the defensive meta is prominent is because a good majority of the cast lacks a way to open a defensive player. Superior block on the heavy start up won't stop the person from not attacking. But it will make them think twice about trying to parry it or hit me with a move from start up. Which is sorely needed. Super armor on fully charged heavy wouldn't work for centurion. as at that point the person will just wait and parry. Which is what is already done. The reason the super armor on full charge works for wardens bash is because warden has all sorts of options from bash based on what her opponent does. centurion lacks these. Your proposed change would do nothing at my level of play and simply increase the frustration for lower skilled players facing a centurion. For the record bushi regularly beats out my pin attempts. most ranged attacks do.

5) There are a few different things in the game that change depending on wether something lands or is blocked. It wouldn't be hard to give that to centurions zone at all.

6) Don't take this personally. But I think the main reason you don't see the need for buffs is because whatever skill bracket you exist in centurions can get away with a lot more. Plus you might be a major 4v4 player. These perspectives, observations, and claims are coming from me. A relatively high skilled player who mostly duels. None of the buffs i've suggested would majorly impact 4v4. And his nerfs i've suggested would also nerf some of his 4v4 presence. The one change I can see that would majorly effect it would be the superior block on heavy start up. But that's really it. He does indeed snowball. that's why I suggested the nerfs. They would make him feel less punishing and easier to understand.

Little risk is not a factual statement in the slightest. Anyone who truly has this perspective is simply lacking the information they need to see the truth. Or they are too stuck in their own views to consider any other viewpoint valid. I am not saying he's hard to master by any means. But he's also not brain dead easy. His best punish at the moment for instance requires a parried light. which a majority of the community claims is damn difficult. (not saying that as an excuse to keep it. Just pointing out.) a vast majority of his move set is unsafe. The only reason he feels so broken to many players is because the sheer amount of things he can do. Average and below players are overwhelmed by this alone and thus think he's broken. But if you take the time to learn him in and out as I have. (and I literally mean learn) you'd realize that a lot of the extra things he's capable of don't work against good players. and that a centurion becomes at his best when he turtles up and only reacts to his enemy. That's because his kit doesn't allow him in without parrying. which means both his kit and the current design of the game are at fault with poor design.
My changes reduce the punishment he's capable of dishing. and taking away a lot of the extra he's capable of. Whilst broadening his kit so he can use more of it. Which regardless of my specific changes going in or not NEEDS to happen for the centurion.

Lets talk about the PTR changes:

~OOS is now punishing since no parrying, dodges are slower, and dodging, blocking temp blocks stamina regen. Buff for centurion.
~parries no longer give GB and light parry punishes are gone. Nerf for centurion.
~chip damage is buffed. buff for centurion.
~Can no longer GB heavy startups. doesn't effect centurion in terms of defense. his heavies already (outside very niche situations) were not GBable anyway. it DOES nerf his offense though. Since his main offense is soft feinting into GB.
~covering up a missed parry attempt with a hard feint keeps your guard open briefly. nerfs centurion.

Think that's it. He loses access to his hardest punishes (light parry> charged GB> pounce. Light parry> charged GB> zone)
His lights are technically safer now due to light parry punishes going away. But that doesn't really help. At least when the opponent has stamina. since he needs to land 2 lights to get to his heavy for mix up potential. and the quick throw is always teched. Where it would have more benefit is OOS.
His kick is still unsafe and punished harshly.
His JA is still unsafe both from GB and parry.
Zone is still bad compared to other top tier players.
His soft feint mix up game might potentially be worse now due to the GB changes. Which would be the second major nerf from PTR changes alone.
His stamina damage attacks no longer drain stamina while the person is OOS. which is a nerf. (though technically a minor one considering his OOS buffs.)
Chip damage won't be anything meaningful for him outside of the opponent being OOS.

So in summary nothing PTR does makes it easier for him to get in. it removes his best punishes. potentially hurts is one mix up game. and slightly buffs him in terms of OOS game. but since it'll be harder for him to get people OOS and he can't keep them in their nearly as long as he used to I would say the buffs to his OOS game are minor.

CandleInTheDark
08-07-2017, 11:55 PM
I hate to follow a long detailed post with a short one but if you mean a heavy soft feint to guardbreak, the peacekeeper has one as well with the same result as a regular guardbreak, so centurion isn't the only one. Unless you mean feinting out of guardbreak into something else? I confess I don't know the full moveset that well.

Knight_Raime
08-08-2017, 12:00 AM
I hate to follow a long detailed post with a short one but if you mean a heavy soft feint to guardbreak, the peacekeeper has one as well with the same result as a regular guardbreak, so centurion isn't the only one. Unless you mean feinting out of guardbreak into something else? I confess I don't know the full moveset that well.

No I mean soft feint from an attack into reg GB. I literally had no idea peace keeper had this. I've never seen it.
Then again most pk's I see on LL and zone cancel. (I at least try to go for bleed stabs and occasionally feint my heavy into the bleed stab to poke a feint happy player)

Jiblet2017
08-08-2017, 12:04 AM
I never said I thought him having hugely more was balanced. and I wish you wouldn't strawman me on that. I am only trying to get you to acknowledge that he generally consumes more stamina to do what he does to other people. and that straight up bringing him down to a normal heros stamina would be hurting him more than you're realizing. I wouldn't care if they brought it down a little. I'm just saying the ONLY way you can make centurions stamina pool the same as someone elses is by cheapening his more expensive moves. Otherwise he's just going to be damn near out of stamina if not OOS from doing his pressure.


So you are aware that his feints do not cost a portion of the heavy attack (only the base feint cost), which I believe is unique among heroes. . . and you take the position that he uses a lot of stamina in comparison to other characters?

Knight_Raime
08-08-2017, 12:08 AM
So you are aware that his feints do not cost a portion of the heavy attack (only the base feint cost), which I believe is unique among heroes. . . and you take the position that he uses a lot of stamina in comparison to other characters?

His feint cost does not equate to the use of his entire kit. I don't know why I have to even mention that.
I'm once again stating that in order for centurion to do comparable damages (outside of his parry punishes) he has to not only land more hits than the other heros. but expend more stamina.
I don't have hard numbers to back this. All I know is I'm typically hovering around half my stamina bar (which is 85 stamina left) after any given combos/mix ups that I do.
and meanwhile I do that there are several instances in which someone can escape. Which means his actual damage output varies a lot more compared to the typical cast of heros.

CandleInTheDark
08-08-2017, 12:20 AM
No I mean soft feint from an attack into reg GB. I literally had no idea peace keeper had this. I've never seen it.
Then again most pk's I see on LL and zone cancel. (I at least try to go for bleed stabs and occasionally feint my heavy into the bleed stab to poke a feint happy player)

Can't say I blame you, most matches against a peacekeeper, people only see lights coming at them and it doesn't seem to be on the online movesets, before taking a character into pvp I make it a point to hit every move on the level 0 bot in how to play, then against other bots for things like deflect. Poor crash test peacekeeper (how to play's level 0 stand there and take it bot)

Knight_Raime
08-08-2017, 12:23 AM
Can't say I blame you, most matches against a peacekeeper, people only see lights coming at them and it doesn't seem to be on the online movesets, before taking a character into pvp I make it a point to hit every move on the level 0 bot in how to play, then against other bots for things like deflect. Poor crash test peacekeeper (how to play's level 0 stand there and take it bot)

I might have to set aside shin and play PK then. I love how she plays compared to shin.
Only reason why I was considering on maining shin was because people consider him trash now.
Compared to pk being a meta pick. thus i'll eventually get slammed for moving from one meta hero to another meta hero.

Since you're a pk main mind giving me some tips in a pm? Besides general tips i'd appreciate some match up info.

CandleInTheDark
08-08-2017, 12:42 AM
I might have to set aside shin and play PK then. I love how she plays compared to shin.
Only reason why I was considering on maining shin was because people consider him trash now.
Compared to pk being a meta pick. thus i'll eventually get slammed for moving from one meta hero to another meta hero.

Since you're a pk main mind giving me some tips in a pm? Besides general tips i'd appreciate some match up info.

Check your pm. Shins are fun as well, I tend to play him like peacekeeper but you need to be a good deal more careful. And yeah peacekeepers get hate, haven't had as much recently in terms of xbox messages but especially on reddit there are people vocal about her.

UbiJurassic
08-08-2017, 01:12 AM
I might have to set aside shin and play PK then. I love how she plays compared to shin.
Only reason why I was considering on maining shin was because people consider him trash now.
Compared to pk being a meta pick. thus i'll eventually get slammed for moving from one meta hero to another meta hero.

Since you're a pk main mind giving me some tips in a pm? Besides general tips i'd appreciate some match up info.

Shinobi is a lot of fun to play. I've recently been spending a lot of time on Shinobi and love the variations in their moveset. Playing well as Shinobi really comes down to solid management of stamina, using your kick wisely, and being able to mixup your opponent by alternating between ranged and close ranged combat on the fly.

Knight_Raime
08-08-2017, 02:19 AM
Shinobi is a lot of fun to play. I've recently been spending a lot of time on Shinobi and love the variations in their moveset. Playing well as Shinobi really comes down to solid management of stamina, using your kick wisely, and being able to mixup your opponent by alternating between ranged and close ranged combat on the fly.

I've got rep 1 with shin. I think i'm close to if not half way through to get to rep 2.
I love how shins kit is as a whole and I personally don't find it bad.
It's more so (because of how I choose to play) that the mobility shin has makes me feel super strong and fights feel easier.
It's not really a design flaw of shin. it's just not got the feeling I'm looking for with a main.
i've been on the search for a new one since people have basically shamed me out of centurion.

I really shouldn't care what people think. But it's not really fun if people yell at me or give up fighting halfway through (and in the extreme quit) because of my character.
i'd rather play a "community approved" hero and have fun matches than play someone I love and not get any enjoyment from fighting with them.

Claudius_Katt
08-08-2017, 04:42 AM
My main was Nobushi up until mid way through season 2 but with my poor ability to utilise Hidden Stance with any real effect and Nobushis less than stellar stamina and dodge I found Centurion to be a massive thorn in my side losing pretty much every single match up against him causing my K/D to plummet like a meteor,
No amount of practice could help me (and boy did I put a ton of hours into practice mode trying to beat him) and so I had to completely abandon Nobushi and switch to another main,
Took me an age and I very nearly gave up the game completely but I finally think I've found one in Warden,
This whole saga has obviously left me pretty damn salty regarding Centurion
But your suggestions sound like they would go a mile towards improving him,
I'd absolutely love to see them in action as I think they'd retain his purpose and keep him strong but make him significantly less salt inducing,

Also dont give up your main man,
Just ignore the hate,
Losing your main is tremendously ****ty and not everyone quits at the first sign of a cent,
I hate versing him but Ive never quit a match and Ive never backed down even though i know the majority of the time Cent is going to destroy me.
Besides Im sure Gladiator or Highlander will soon draw all the hatred of Cent,
At least for a while.

Corvos_Vim
08-08-2017, 04:54 AM
I do not care what nerfs, or buffs you talk about nor if he has counters.

Needless to say he is in turn ****ing broken. And you are just another asshat that plays him.

I have counters for him. About 50% of the time i flawless high rep centurions. But if i screw up once a single 1% **** up. Or he lands a parry, kick or GB or as far as any sort of heavy attack i will be thrown out of stam from full whilst losing 80-90% of my health.

The centurion is literally as broken as someone modding in a GTA lobby.

You can talk all you want on counters, buffs, nerfs. In the end the centurion is one of the most inbalanced broken feature i have ever seen in a PvP game. Second to maybe the Vex Mythoclast Pre 1st Nerf. A gun with a 70 something round magazine, pin point accuracy, high rof and single shot damage of a sniper.

The only thing that could even remotely bring him down would be a 50% nerf to stamina and damage. Even then he would still be broken. His very existence in this game is what makes him broken.

Knight_Raime
08-08-2017, 04:58 AM
I do not care what nerfs, or buffs you talk about nor if he has counters.

Needless to say he is in turn ****ing broken. And you are just another asshat that plays him.

I have counters for him. About 50% of the time i flawless high rep centurions. But if i screw up once a single 1% **** up. Or he lands a parry, kick or GB or as far as any sort of heavy attack i will be thrown out of stam from full whilst losing 80-90% of my health.

The centurion is literally as broken as someone modding in a GTA lobby.

You can talk all you want on counters, buffs, nerfs. In the end the centurion is one of the most inbalanced broken feature i have ever seen in a PvP game. Second to maybe the Vex Mythoclast Pre 1st Nerf. A gun with a 70 something round magazine, pin point accuracy, high rof and single shot damage of a sniper.

The only thing that could even remotely bring him down would be a 50% nerf to stamina and damage. Even then he would still be broken. His very existence in this game is what makes him broken.

cool.
muted.

Knight_Raime
08-08-2017, 05:02 AM
My main was Nobushi up until mid way through season 2 but with my poor ability to utilise Hidden Stance with any real affect and Nobushis less than stellar stamina and dodge I found Centurion to be a massive thorn in my side losing pretty much every single match up against him causing my K/D to plummet like a meteor,
No amount of practice could help me (and boy did I put a ton of hours into practice mode trying to beat him) and so I had to completely abandon Nobushi and switch to another main,
Took me an age and I very nearly gave up the game completely but I finally think I've found one in Warden,
This whole saga has obviously left me pretty damn salty regarding Centurion
But your suggestions sound like they would go a mile towards improving Centurion,
I'd absolutely love to see them in action as I think they'd retain his purpose and keep him strong but make him significantly less salt inducing,

Also dont give up your main man,
Just ignore the hate,
Losing your main is tremendously ****ty and not everyone quits at the first sign of a cent,
I hate versing him but Ive never quit a match and Ive never backed down even though i know the majority of the time Cent is going to destroy me.
Besides Im sure Galdiator or Highlander will soon draw all the hatred of Cent,
At least for a while.

I probably won't quit playing him entirely. But i'm on the look out to find someone else to play a majority of the time.
Side note I love the design of bushi. and a god tier bushi player was the first ever person to read me entirely and destroy me as a centurion.
I wish I could play her. she's my favorite hybrid. I've tried picking her up 3 times and I just can't get the hang of her.

Oh i've no doubt once season 3 drops one of the 2 new heros will be the new target of salty players everywhere. But the damage with centurion is permanent.
even if they do get him to a fixed state someone will always complain about how broken he is (evidence of the user whom I just muted.)

That_guy44
08-08-2017, 05:04 AM
Id be fine with just reducing his stamina pool to the same as everyone else.

Knight_Raime
08-08-2017, 05:06 AM
Id be fine with just reducing his stamina pool to the same as everyone else.

i'd be okay with that specific change so long as some of his more costly moves ended up becoming cheaper in the process.

Auztinito
08-08-2017, 05:38 AM
Save your pointless testimony.Centurion is a character built around "breaking" the defense meta.The developers have no semblance of the word balanced.Revenge to active in S1, nerf it to the ground.Conqueror has too much spam,nerf it to the ground.Warden's SB is too much,don't fix the issue just make him slower & clunky but leave in the spam.Raider needs a buff,make have a abusive spammable "soft feint" with a move that cost no stamina but drains his opponent.Lawbringer needs a touch-up,buff him to Warden "Pre-Nerf" status.Fix "soft feints" only to put them back in and allow them.
If Season 3 is horrible.I'm gone from this game till their game designers get their head out of their ***.I have Absolver,pre-ordered and auto-download is ready for August 22nd.It is sad when I have more fun and there is more balance in Injustice 2.Hell,people spam & abuse this game to their hearts content, while you have tons of people on the forums give criticism but are attacked by the same 2-3 people.Yet,you pull up their stats and they are below average.The only way to play this game at the moment is abuse every little thing in this game to win.If your Warden go with SB spam and SB/GB.If your Lawbringer use shove on block.Centurion in general,Berzerker abuse "soft feints".Warlord spam headbutt.Raider "soft feint" into stun with stampede abuse.I will not call this a legitimate fighting game in it's current state.

Claudius_Katt
08-08-2017, 05:54 AM
I probably won't quit playing him entirely. But i'm on the look out to find someone else to play a majority of the time.
Side note I love the design of bushi. and a god tier bushi player was the first ever person to read me entirely and destroy me as a centurion.
I wish I could play her. she's my favorite hybrid. I've tried picking her up 3 times and I just can't get the hang of her.

Oh i've no doubt once season 3 drops one of the 2 new heros will be the new target of salty players everywhere. But the damage with centurion is permanent.
even if they do get him to a fixed state someone will always complain about how broken he is (evidence of the user whom I just muted.)

Bushi is awesome,
First character that I really enjoyed playing,
I still play her when a hybrid order comes up but I've just never been able to get the hang of hidden stance so I was kind of forced to hang up the straw hat,
Having a ton better luck with warden though and a great deal of fun too.

Knight_Raime
08-08-2017, 06:12 AM
Bushi is awesome,
First character that I really enjoyed playing,
I still play her when a hybrid order comes up but I've just never been able to get the hang of hidden stance so I was kind of forced to hang up the straw hat,
Having a ton better luck with warden though and a great deal of fun too.

yeah hidden stance really takes a lot to get good with. Like I know the hidden stance combos and how to use her.
Just never been good at how she flows though. it doesn't seem to mesh with how I like to play.

Claudius_Katt
08-08-2017, 06:20 AM
yeah hidden stance really takes a lot to get good with. Like I know the hidden stance combos and how to use her.
Just never been good at how she flows though. it doesn't seem to mesh with how I like to play.

Its the timing and stamina management I struggle with,
Hard judge if the HS will activate in time and whether I'll be able to throw out the light or the kick in time,

I'm pretty psyched about Gladiator for that reason actually,
Polearm with a higher stamina and better crowd control sounds real neat.

Knight_Raime
08-08-2017, 06:21 AM
Its the timing and stamina management I struggle with,
Hard judge if the HS will activate in time and whether I'll be able to throw out the light or the kick in time,

I'm pretty psyched about Gladiator for that reason actually,
Polearm with a higher stamina and better crowd control sounds real neat.

yeah stam management is really the hardest thing about her kit imo.
I'm glad i'm not the only one looking forward to gladiator.

Claudius_Katt
08-08-2017, 07:05 AM
yeah stam management is really the hardest thing about her kit imo.
I'm glad i'm not the only one looking forward to gladiator.

Yeah everyones getting all hyped for Highlander but its Gladiator thats got my attention,
I'm really looking forward to the bigger reveal next warriors den.

Knight_Raime
08-08-2017, 10:41 AM
Yeah everyones getting all hyped for Highlander but its Gladiator thats got my attention,
I'm really looking forward to the bigger reveal next warriors den.

yeah if memory suits me we get the full hero trailers this week.
and next week we get to see the full movesets.

It's funny. everyone was losing their hats over shinobi in season 2 and centurion was tossed aside.
Now everyone is losing their selves over highlander and ignoring gladiator.

I wonder if that means he/she will be meta pick.

Claudius_Katt
08-08-2017, 11:09 AM
yeah if memory suits me we get the full hero trailers this week.
and next week we get to see the full movesets.

It's funny. everyone was losing their hats over shinobi in season 2 and centurion was tossed aside.
Now everyone is losing their selves over highlander and ignoring gladiator.

I wonder if that means he/she will be meta pick.

Oh god,
I better cut my sodium intake down in preparation for the salt Gladiators are about to receive. 😂

Knight_Raime
08-08-2017, 11:14 AM
Oh god,
I better cut my sodium intake down in preparation for the salt Gladiators are about to receive. ��

gladiator is already seeing some salt because the initial description made people think he's "centurion 2.0"

Claudius_Katt
08-08-2017, 11:26 AM
gladiator is already seeing some salt because the initial description made people think he's "centurion 2.0"

Time will tell I guess,
I'm still pretty keen for Gladiator though,
Will just have to endure the salt if it comes to that,
Anyway I've hijacked your thread and taken it way off track,
It was a pleasure chatting with you.

Knight_Raime
08-08-2017, 11:30 AM
Time will tell I guess,
I'm still pretty keen for Gladiator though,
Will just have to endure the salt if it comes to that,
Anyway I've hijacked your thread and taken it way off track,
It was a pleasure chatting with you.

it's all good. feeling is mutual.