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View Full Version : So, what are your plans for slow characters?



AnEnticingSquid
08-04-2017, 09:32 PM
So the smallest player base of the three complain about hurtling so you make these sweeping changes to gut reaction based gameplay... I have been playing warlord recently and he is absolute balls at offense. You have 1 choice and that is to play defensively. 90% of the roster can just light attack through any move you make. Same with my main, raider. I try to mix up his zone and everybody just throws out lights. They beat all of his moves every time. You have no choice but to turtle and parrying is your only option to get damage. So what are you going to do? Because from what I can see you are just trading in one problem for another. The new meta will be spam fast attacks and zones and ignore what your enemy is doing completely. Of course I can't test these changes because even though I'm part of the biggest player base, I am barred from trying. It seems like it's one step forward and two steps back with this game. I'm not trying to be insulting either, it's a genuine critzism. Of course it's been already said but I'll say it again... Consoles and pc should be balanced differently. Parrys are rare and turtling is barely a problem. I see way more light spamming pks and shinobis than I ever do turtling warlords...

That_guy44
08-04-2017, 09:58 PM
I agree with you on consoles having different considerations but you lost me when you said warlord has bad offense.

BudgetParrot118
08-04-2017, 11:21 PM
Bad offense as far as actually playing the game with actual attacks we're not talking about the head butts and the shield bashes and things that are quite frankly game-breaking these are the things people have a problem with the head but is abused it's outright absurdity

The head but should be used exclusively in a combo that's it there should be no free-range head-butting to where there's more head-banging action going on then in a metal concert it's ridiculous

The guy is so slow I get anxiety when I use him I mean it's kind of annoying they couldn't make the warlord like a balance of the beserker in the valkyrie and the Raider at least in speed I mean for the love of God he's got the iconic shield and sword it's iconic he should at best be normal in build and a medium in speed not slow speed and a bunch of spam attacks

AnEnticingSquid
08-05-2017, 03:55 PM
I agree with you on consoles having different considerations but you lost me when you said warlord has bad offense.

What I mean by this is his heavies are so god awfuly slow They are unusable unless in a confirmed damage situation. His headbutt is his only viable offensive move and while it isn't the heatseeking missile it used to be, it is still pretty broken. I mean things like trading blows, opening fights without headbutt... Every time I fight a shugoki it's a war of attrition because both of our attacks are so slow they they are useless to just throw out.

BudgetParrot118
08-05-2017, 04:23 PM
Not to mention when running to Aid or help people he runs slow everything about him is slow and I'm not asking for a buff I'm actually asking for a Nerf on a lot of the abusive moves when it comes to Warlord and buffs on basics, like striking, blocking ,and running.

Some of the trade-offs with some characters like the Raider you end up or I could see where new players end up enticed by the fact of just spamming these moves because they don't really have options as far as striking and such.

But then again I have a problem with the Raider all the way around. He's just to stereotypically Barbarian and imagery but that's just my opinion. I do wish they tried to be a little bit more accurate with him.

I do realize though the creators and Developers are the makers of the game and they all have made it the way it is. I just think it have been more lot more interesting had they moved around certain characteristics of each character when it comes to the Vikings. In doing so it would make the immersion in the realism more of a factor.


Raider= berserker move set
The raider is already on point with the bare skinned aspect of a berserker.

Berserker= warlord move set with a bit more speed and no spams. Berserker would keep the body size but adopt the shield and sword or axe and helms.

My reasoning for this is that the sword and shield and sword and axe is an iconic thing but when it comes to RPGs it seems all too common that the sword and Shield is associated with heavy and tanking. And just saying in my hypothetical wishful thinking here beserker are better yet the new warlord would stand a better chance against Centurion.

BudgetParrot118
08-05-2017, 04:27 PM
As well berserker / raider gear would be the zerkers gear just without shirts some with shirts. Keeping the height, But also reinforcing the wolf and bear pelts that are linked to the Berserkers.

RatedChaotic
08-05-2017, 04:28 PM
Parries are rare? ummmkay but I got a nice video of my Conq continually blocking and parrying in a 1v4 situation. Double parries from full block look so amazing. I was also turtling......

AnEnticingSquid
08-05-2017, 04:59 PM
Parries are rare? ummmkay but I got a nice video of my Conq continually blocking and parrying in a 1v4 situation. Double parries from full block look so amazing. I was also turtling......

I'm not saying it's non existent, I'm saying there are far less turtles then light spammers. I'm Rep 28 and I get paired with a lot of people that are like rep 40 and such. Even with about twice the playtime as me, they still throw out lights often and don't parry a whole lot. Just my experience on Xbox. And yeah, Conq is a turtle god so it's not too surprising.

BudgetParrot118
08-05-2017, 05:24 PM
The Conqueror is a problem because even with four people whaling on him it still takes forever to kill him and he usually takes out two people.

Again if blocking is abused these matches are a f****** nightmare. Again not fun. And again someone that has a lot of experience playing games and are familiar with where the buttons are on the controller they can pick up the Conqueror and beat somebody that's higher up just from turtling up and using lights and also spamming his shield Bash which drains stamina.

BudgetParrot118
08-05-2017, 05:31 PM
Again I've turtled up in my own way when it comes to the game I strictly play against the AI on all modes now and everytime I pop my little turtle head out just into the real multiplayer world it's always the first match is utter bs.

Teams are being paired up like a card game. Example

Two centurion for knock down and stamina drain, and a berserker that has high damage who spams zone or attacks with heavy when pinned and or stunned by centurion.

These things are making me lose the appeal to this game and in my opinion making a utter joke out of the very meaning of what for honor is. One move to rule them all mentality.

It's not a matter of the overall strategy of the character and their overall moveset and what they do that would be one thing but it's like Yu-Gi-Oh are Pokemon where these characters have three moves and you pair them up to make a pretty good team and in the world of Pokemon and Fantasyland that's fine

Then again I don't play Pokemon nothing gets people that do nor do I buy anything to do with Pokemon even though I'm very well versed and how it functions as a game I'm just not interested in it.

And I believe for a fact this game isnt it meant to be played like this. Because in real fights or anything close to a real fight it doesn't work like that.

BudgetParrot118
08-05-2017, 05:33 PM
This is so far from realism it isn't funny.

kweassa1
08-05-2017, 06:20 PM
Again I've turtled up in my own way when it comes to the game I strictly play against the AI on all modes now and everytime I pop my little turtle head out just into the real multiplayer world it's always the first match is utter bs.

Teams are being paired up like a card game. Example

Two centurion for knock down and stamina drain, and a berserker that has high damage who spams zone or attacks with heavy when pinned and or stunned by centurion.

These things are making me lose the appeal to this game and in my opinion making a utter joke out of the very meaning of what for honor is. One move to rule them all mentality.

It's not a matter of the overall strategy of the character and their overall moveset and what they do that would be one thing but it's like Yu-Gi-Oh are Pokemon where these characters have three moves and you pair them up to make a pretty good team and in the world of Pokemon and Fantasyland that's fine

Then again I don't play Pokemon nothing gets people that do nor do I buy anything to do with Pokemon even though I'm very well versed and how it functions as a game I'm just not interested in it.

And I believe for a fact this game isnt it meant to be played like this. Because in real fights or anything close to a real fight it doesn't work like that.

Nobody forced you into a 1v2. If you're being teamed up, your team's already lost a crucial fight in terms of overall tactical maneuvering.

- Where are your own teammates when you are being forced in a 1v2 situation?
- Why were you unaware that 2 enemies were approaching?
- If you were aware, was it not own choice to stay put and fight in a disadvantaged situation?
- If you can't handle the fact that more than one opponents may attack you, why not stick to 1v1s?


Face it. "Gank" is a result of poor judgement, and judgement makes up a very, very important part of one's skill.

If you keep on getting teamed up by opponents, and you can't stomach the fact that you often lose in that situation, then you've really got no one else to blame but yourself.

Alustar.exe
08-05-2017, 06:46 PM
Nobody forced you into a 1v2. If you're being teamed up, your team's already lost a crucial fight in terms of overall tactical maneuvering.

- Where are your own teammates when you are being forced in a 1v2 situation?
- Why were you unaware that 2 enemies were approaching?
- If you were aware, was it not own choice to stay put and fight in a disadvantaged situation?
- If you can't handle the fact that more than one opponents may attack you, why not stick to 1v1s?


Face it. "Gank" is a result of poor judgement, and judgement makes up a very, very important part of one's skill.

If you keep on getting teamed up by opponents, and you can't stomach the fact that you often lose in that situation, then you've really got no one else to blame but yourself.

This right here. I personally love 1v2+ fights that favor my enemies. I don't succeed in every group fight but I'm getting to the point now that I get ganged up on simply because I'm a threat that can wipe an entire group solo.

kweassa1
08-05-2017, 06:56 PM
This right here. I personally love 1v2+ fights that favor my enemies. I don't succeed in every group fight but I'm getting to the point now that I get ganged up on simply because I'm a threat that can wipe an entire group solo.

..which is a good example of just how important "ganks" are in the game, in the tactical sense.

Like, as per alustar's example, then if enemies all try to horde up to one person, what can the other teammates do in that situation? Would it be better for that one guy to "take one for the team" and go down swinging, but dragging on the fight as long as possible so the rest 3 friendlies can achieve many objectives elsewhere? Or would it be necessary for someone to go help that one guy? If help is gonna be sent, do all the rest of the people go? Or does only 1~2 person go? Would the timing be right? Would it be too late to send help -- in which case, sending help would be the more foolish thing to do? Or is there still enough time?

Most matches aren't premades, but 4 random people. And in this environment, the difference in "judgement" really shows up drastically. Have at minimum 2 people who are quick in thinking out these things, and in most cases those two people know EXACTLY what to do without even exchanging a single chat line. When you play with people like these, they ALWAYS arrive when you need help, they ALWAYS take an enemy zone when things become crucial, and even in fights, they never get in your way and always dish out CCs and stuff at the exact timing you want it.

To the layman, it looks like some 4-man deathsquad running around, but to anyone with any kind of real experience in how team games are played, the basic tactics at work behind that "gank" is a lot more complex than you think.

If you and your team are ganked constantly, that simply means the opponent team is WAY more superior than you or your team, in more ways than you may realize.

Alustar.exe
08-05-2017, 07:03 PM
..which is a good example of just how important "ganks" are in the game, in the tactical sense.

Like, as per alustar's example, then if enemies all try to horde up to one person, what can the other teammates do in that situation? Would it be better for that one guy to "take one for the team" and go down swinging, but dragging on the fight as long as possible so the rest 3 friendlies can achieve many objectives elsewhere? Or would it be necessary for someone to go help that one guy? If help is gonna be sent, do all the rest of the people go? Or does only 1~2 person go? Would the timing be right? Would it be too late to send help -- in which case, sending help would be the more foolish thing to do? Or is there still enough time?

Most matches aren't premades, but 4 random people. And in this environment, the difference in "judgement" really shows up drastically. Have at minimum 2 people who are quick in thinking out these things, and in most cases those two people know EXACTLY what to do without even exchanging a single chat line. When you play with people like these, they ALWAYS arrive when you need help, they ALWAYS take an enemy zone when things become crucial, and even in fights, they never get in your way and always dish out CCs and stuff at the exact timing you want it.

To the layman, it looks like some 4-man deathsquad running around, but to anyone with any kind of real experience in how team games are played, the basic tactics at work behind that "gank" is a lot more complex than you think.

If you and your team are ganked constantly, that simply means the opponent team is WAY more superior than you or your team, in more ways than you may realize.

Get out of my head...

BudgetParrot118
08-06-2017, 04:10 AM
Nobody forced you into a 1v2. If you're being teamed up, your team's already lost a crucial fight in terms of overall tactical maneuvering.

- Where are your own teammates when you are being forced in a 1v2 situation?
- Why were you unaware that 2 enemies were approaching?
- If you were aware, was it not own choice to stay put and fight in a disadvantaged situation?
- If you can't handle the fact that more than one opponents may attack you, why not stick to 1v1s?


Face it. "Gank" is a result of poor judgement, and judgement makes up a very, very important part of one's skill.

If you keep on getting teamed up by opponents, and you can't stomach the fact that you often lose in that situation, then you've really got no one else to blame but yourself.

Being pinned because of stun isn't cool. Making teams because of characters abuse rate isn't okay. Its a waste of my time

1. Where's your mother when your typing such nonsense
2 can you read my issue?
3 understand English comprehension

I'm not the best example all the time, and with some of my post using talk to text... Its a utter nightmare.

when I first started playing I would've said the exact same thing as you.

For me...maybe my region... Every match is a clown fest. Ganking isn't what it used to be. Heavys and lights...no now....we,have game breaking super moves....

As a matter of fact since I've joined I believed I've made comments about at the time how I enjoyed being ganked and loved the challenge.

The question you should ask yourself is what made me change on this issue over time....

BudgetParrot118
08-06-2017, 04:20 AM
And again my point was based around these super moves being the only asset in the game... spam factor and abuse.

This has nothing to do with 1v2 1v4 or any of that... Quite frankly before all these stun and knock down moves was implemented so strongly I beat hank squads a lot....

But with centurion there isn't much you can do.....

I'm not going to go into FACTS on why he is over powered in many ways....

As well realistic elimination is down,right,unplayable over this.


I'm not saying being jumped by an orochi and nobushi....

I am being jumped by OP characters with characters who have special moves that can he abused.lawbringer Shove for example.

My point is as well to prove these moves are a problem is the fact that no one uses anything else but advantaged abusable moves....


Because its a great thing to have a good game with all sorts of various move sets just for that special character and turn it into a game that have characters with a move or two.,,


Totally cool. 😎

BudgetParrot118
08-06-2017, 04:21 AM
Various moves for special characters vs Various characters with a special move


Some reason ommited what I typed,in post and when I edit it deletes,post.

Knight_Raime
08-06-2017, 05:50 AM
Warlord gameplay from PTR shows he literally doesn't change much if at all. he's still as good as he ever was.
he's one of the few people who still has a strong parry punish post PTR too.
Also every platform has complainers about turtling.
You don't have the ability nor the numbers to back exactly how many people are complaining about turtling or how frequent it is.
So. your attempt to devalue whats being asked for is pretty flimsy.