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Dragonsnuts
07-30-2017, 01:40 AM
I was a big fan of the Frye twins. Being able to have some choice in your character is always nice in my book. Still hoping some day we get to make our own assassin. In the mean time a male and female option would suffice.

AnimusLover
07-30-2017, 11:30 AM
I do not like the idea of a fully customisable Assassin as that will give Ubisoft an excuse not to make a fully fleshed character with a rich story line.
I too would like to play as a female protagonist throughout the entire game. Ubisoft are stuck to this sexist notion that a female protagonist won't sell and even went as far as to hide Evie from the marketing (much to the voice actress' sadness) and I think this sort of logic plays into a larger problem with their creative thought process: they don't give consumers enough credit and are focusing on the wrong things in their games.
Horizon Zero Dawn was a huge success and featured a female lead. The reason why it was successful was because it was a great game. The fact that there was a female lead didn't play into it except it was nice to be represented.

marvelfannumber
07-30-2017, 04:37 PM
Being of the opinion that Syndicate was hot garbage I don't tend to think too highly of the multiple protagonists concept. It could be done well, but I feel it detracts from a nice and focused character based story. Not a big fan of the custom protagonist thing either as that really wouldn't make any sense with in the lore. You would need a complete reboot of the series to have that make sense considering AC has a very rigidd and well established lore. Not to mention reliving the memories of an ancestor....who's a custom character doesn't really make much sense.

Slimgrin
07-30-2017, 07:29 PM
The Frye twins were my favorite assassins. Solid writing and great voice acting. Also, witty humor. They said there will be another playable character, and yeah I kinda hope it's a female.

SofaJockey
07-30-2017, 10:06 PM
Evie was a wonderful character.

I hope Bayek is wonderful too.

This sits with the writers.

crusader_prophet
07-30-2017, 10:37 PM
I am not disappointed at all. Syndicate was a mess and disservice to Evie's character. I would have actually enjoyed Syndicate without Jacob or his aspect of the narrative, but that does not mean that a female protagonist has to be forced in. A character is developed during the pre-production and conceptualization phase, and shouldn't be altered to please a crowd. Make a female protagonist because that is the story that is going to be told, not because you want to pander to a narrative and force it in. HZD was developed with Aloy from Day 0.

AnimusLover
07-30-2017, 10:52 PM
Being of the opinion that Syndicate was hot garbage I don't tend to think too highly of the multiple protagonists concept. It could be done well, but I feel it detracts from a nice and focused character based story.

Have you played GTAV? Did you not like the multiple protagonist aspect there?


I am not disappointed at all. Syndicate was a mess and disservice to Evie's character. I would have actually enjoyed Syndicate without Jacob or his aspect of the narrative, but that does not mean that a female protagonist has to be forced in. A character is developed during the pre-production and conceptualization phase, and shouldn't be altered to please a crowd. Make a female protagonist because that is the story that is going to be told, not because you want to pander to a narrative and force it in. HZD was developed with Aloy from Day 0.

Agree with BIB.

marvelfannumber
07-30-2017, 10:59 PM
Have you played GTAV? Did you not like the multiple protagonist aspect there?
I never said it doesn't work for other games, I just said I believe it doesn't work very well for Assassin's Creed judging by what we've seen so far. Assassin's Creed is not GTA. Not to mention it would become incredibely messy if we have a modern protagonist on top of two historical protagonists...it would just feel very crowded.

SixKeys
07-31-2017, 03:54 AM
I am not disappointed at all. Syndicate was a mess and disservice to Evie's character. I would have actually enjoyed Syndicate without Jacob or his aspect of the narrative, but that does not mean that a female protagonist has to be forced in. A character is developed during the pre-production and conceptualization phase, and shouldn't be altered to please a crowd. Make a female protagonist because that is the story that is going to be told, not because you want to pander to a narrative and force it in. HZD was developed with Aloy from Day 0.

You seem to be assuming the opposite could never be true. How do you know they didn't start out writing Origins with a female protagonist and then switched to a male one halfway through because marketing thought it would sell better? Hell, we already had a female Egyptian assassin in the lore (Amunet) yet curiously when they finally decide to make a game in Egypt, the game is about a new male character we've never heard of instead of her. Might there be a reason for that? :rolleyes:


Not to mention it would become incredibely messy if we have a modern protagonist on top of two historical protagonists...it would just feel very crowded.

You mean like Revelations, with Ezio, Alta´r and Desmond? Or AC3, with Desmond, Connor and Haytham?

onzirTbu
07-31-2017, 06:53 AM
I prefer to play as male protagonist, so I am happy about that.

IsAZebraACat
07-31-2017, 11:10 AM
There should be a male and female protagonist to choose from in every game.

marvelfannumber
07-31-2017, 11:48 AM
You mean like Revelations, with Ezio, Alta´r and Desmond? Or AC3, with Desmond, Connor and Haytham?
Alta´r's sections in Revelations were relatively short compared to that of Ezio, plus he's a character we already know so that's not the best example.
As for Haytham, isn't the consensus among most people that his prologue during the first 1.5 hours of the game was.....messy? Most people seem to be in agreement that it went on for way too long, padded the story unnecessarily and wasted time that could have been used to develop Connor more.

cawatrooper9
07-31-2017, 02:21 PM
To be honest, I think Jacob and Evie's multiple protagonist thing was pretty squandered in Syndicate. The final mission sort of approached the potential on how controlling two different Assassins could drastically effect the mission, but almost no other mission came close to that- and to be honest, even the finale didn't really approach the full potential of the idea.

GTAV had some great multiple protagonist moments, but even that game doesn't really utilize it as much as I'd like.

As far as getting to know the twins- I don't think it was the multiple protag gameplay that made them shallow. I think the writing and story just wasn't on par with the better installments in the series.

Kiroku
07-31-2017, 02:35 PM
You will most likely be able to play amunet or help her. You should be fine

crusader_prophet
07-31-2017, 05:23 PM
You seem to be assuming the opposite could never be true. How do you know they didn't start out writing Origins with a female protagonist and then switched to a male one halfway through because marketing thought it would sell better? Hell, we already had a female Egyptian assassin in the lore (Amunet) yet curiously when they finally decide to make a game in Egypt, the game is about a new male character we've never heard of instead of her. Might there be a reason for that? :rolleyes
Not denying that it could be possible. Actually given UbiSoft executives past comments and history so far, I do believe it's plausible that their marketing department swayed the decision of featured protagonist. However, I didn't want to say that as a definitive fact because it's based on deductive reasoning and not direct evidence. For the record, I'd have preferred to play as Amunet instead of Bayek, but the reason I'm not disappointed is because I don't know for a fact that the story and character development started with Amunet from Day 0. I don't want her to be playable protagonist forced in because that'll be an insult to her character and the treatment she deserves. If she were to be the playable main protagonist, I want her to be the one in developers minds from Day 0 as a fact. Hope that makes sense.

crusader_prophet
07-31-2017, 05:50 PM
I prefer to play as male protagonist, so I am happy about that.
I prefer to play as the protagonist that the game is developed with to serve it's creative and artistic objectives, not to serve a prejudiced crowd nor serve as a pandering platform.

strigoi1958
07-31-2017, 06:10 PM
It doesn't bother me whether a protagonist is male/ female or even alien :D So to answer the OP you're probably not the only one sad but as this thread shows there are people who prefer male protagonists and people like me who are "Meh... it's just a game". Would Tomb raider have been better or worse with a male protagonist? NO! it doesn't affect the gameplay and at no time are the interactions affected by the gender (No enemy ever stops from shooting and says "I can't kill a woman") so gender is irrelevant. What Syndicate did very well was make the personality and skills more gender oriented by making Jacobs skills more suited to his headstrong combat style approach while Evie focused on stealth and a more thought out approach... but gameplay made no difference... both could win the fights with equal ability and ease.

Unless it affects the game play and a female has advantages and disadvantages from a male like in Syndicate then it is just a skin.... like preferring one outfit over the other.

I think a lot of protagonists feel shallow or people care less simply because of Ezio's trilogy.... if the Frye Twins had starred in other games (either together or separately then I'm sure people would have bonded with them more. The people who are most mentioned on the forum just happen to be the people who appeared in most games... I don't think that is just a coincidence..... I think there was a dislike of Connor simply because he was not Ezio (or Ezio-ish) because people had bonded with Ezio over time. If Evie had been given 2 more games and people had learned more about her and become more involved then maybe she would have surpassed Ezio's reverence.... but maybe Ubi are reluctant to do a trilogy again in case it causes the same negative reaction that followed Ezio's removal from the series?

I think Cawatrooper9's last post sums it up perfectly.

Sorrosyss
07-31-2017, 09:52 PM
To be honest, I think Jacob and Evie's multiple protagonist thing was pretty squandered in Syndicate. The final mission sort of approached the potential on how controlling two different Assassins could drastically effect the mission, but almost no other mission came close to that- and to be honest, even the finale didn't really approach the full potential of the idea.

GTAV had some great multiple protagonist moments, but even that game doesn't really utilize it as much as I'd like.

As far as getting to know the twins- I don't think it was the multiple protag gameplay that made them shallow. I think the writing and story just wasn't on par with the better installments in the series.

Well said. Whilst we know there are other playable characters, I'm still a little sad that we do not have the 'gender' option as we did with Syndicate. It genuinely felt like a step forward to offer more options to a more inclusive player base, but I'll freely admit that how it was split out in the game and handled story wise was less than ideal. As you say though, other games have done multiple protagonists alot better, and some games have certainly treated female characters with a great deal more care. (Hello Aloy!) Still, if Charlotte ends up being the Modern Day protagonist, I will happily eat my words. :p

Xstantin
08-01-2017, 12:47 AM
I hardly noticed any difference between playing as Evie or Jacob (I actually spent more time playing as Jacob overall, not because I liked him, but cause I preferred his earlier outfits to Evie's until the point where you can unlock that military getup from the rift). The stealth/combat bonuses felt pretty minimal. However if Ubi manages to write a character who is interesting enough and happens to be female, why not.

I'm not a fan of make your own assassin idea though. Unless it's multiplayer or some animus training bs simulation it feels a bit too detached from the story imo to have some random character running around and meeting important historical figures, Its just too Rpg-ish. We are following each assassin cause they were important or at least had some relevance to the plot/historical setting.

SixKeys
08-01-2017, 12:31 PM
To be honest, I think Jacob and Evie's multiple protagonist thing was pretty squandered in Syndicate. The final mission sort of approached the potential on how controlling two different Assassins could drastically effect the mission, but almost no other mission came close to that- and to be honest, even the finale didn't really approach the full potential of the idea.

GTAV had some great multiple protagonist moments, but even that game doesn't really utilize it as much as I'd like.

As far as getting to know the twins- I don't think it was the multiple protag gameplay that made them shallow. I think the writing and story just wasn't on par with the better installments in the series.

Agreed. It makes me sad to know how much they had to change or cut from Syndicate due to time restrictions. The story could have been so much more. Like the idea that Jacob's reckless actions would actually have had tangible effects in the city (like causing financial chaos, thereby resulting in the player getting less revenue) and Evie always having to clean up her brother's messes. Their fallout would have felt so much more meaningful, whereas in the final game it just kinda comes out of nowhere. The problem wasn't having two protagonists, the overall story simply lacked polish and nuance due to lack of resources.


Not denying that it could be possible. Actually given UbiSoft executives past comments and history so far, I do believe it's plausible that their marketing department swayed the decision of featured protagonist. However, I didn't want to say that as a definitive fact because it's based on deductive reasoning and not direct evidence. For the record, I'd have preferred to play as Amunet instead of Bayek, but the reason I'm not disappointed is because I don't know for a fact that the story and character development started with Amunet from Day 0. I don't want her to be playable protagonist forced in because that'll be an insult to her character and the treatment she deserves. If she were to be the playable main protagonist, I want her to be the one in developers minds from Day 0 as a fact. Hope that makes sense.

I understand, it's just that the argument "they shouldn't shoehorn in a female for political correctness' sake!" argument only ever gets trotted out when there's a game with a female protagonist. When there's a game with a male protagonist, why do we assume their story was always like that from the beginning, but a female protagonist automatically warrants some suspicion? Also, curiously the cries for "let us choose our gender!" typically don't start until there's a game that forces you to play as female. :rolleyes:

dxsxhxcx
08-01-2017, 02:11 PM
I understand, it's just that the argument "they shouldn't shoehorn in a female for political correctness' sake!" argument only ever gets trotted out when there's a game with a female protagonist. When there's a game with a male protagonist, why do we assume their story was always like that from the beginning, but a female protagonist automatically warrants some suspicion? Also, curiously the cries for "let us choose our gender!" typically don't start until there's a game that forces you to play as female. :rolleyes:

I believe this happens because women are treated differently by society and some people would like to see this kind of thing appearing in the game as well rather than just play as a reskinned version Ezio wearing a skirt. EDIT: there are also some idiots that believe they will lose their masculinity by playing as a female character, but those IMO should be ignored.

That's why I think we shouldn't be able to choose our gender in AC, it would only lead to generic stories with the gender serving only an aesthetic purpose.

LoyalACFan
08-01-2017, 02:53 PM
Like others have said, the multiple protagonists thing wasn't Syndicate's narrative downfall, it was just poor writing, and it didn't help that the story missions were weighted in the less-interesting Jacob's favor. I actually love the idea of multiple protagonists; I think it has the potential to take gaming to a new tier of artistic legitimacy (because what other medium always sticks with a single POV character?). It was a great idea in GTA5, and judging from the seven silhouettes in the cover art, I suspect/hope that RDR2 is going to run with that idea and drive it home to staggering heights.

It does get tricky with AC though, because (at least in the franchise's best installments) you technically already have at least two playable characters; one in the past, one in the present. As much as I like Haytham, I'm one of those with the opinion that he robbed Connor of far too much precious screen time. But it can also be done well; Altair's sections didn't really break the flow of Ezio's story in Revelations, and the Lydia Frye missions were actually a highlight of Syndicate for me. It all depends on how it's handled, but I can definitely see us stepping into Amunet's shoes for a few memorable missions.

cawatrooper9
08-01-2017, 02:54 PM
There's a bit of a paradox in that line of thinking.

Sure, once can say "It's noticeable when women are protagonists because they're usually treated differently in the industry, and generally aren't as commonly depicted as playable strong protagonists."
And sadly, I would agree that that's still true.

However, in doing so, doesn't that make fixing that issue less about simple "political correctness" (even so, a goal I see nothing wrong with) and more about addressing the issue your literally just admitted as to existing?

I'd like to note that I'm not calling anyone out here, mostly just riffing on what's already been said. For the most part, I think we're all pretty much in agreement. :D

WendysBrioche
08-01-2017, 03:02 PM
My thoughts, customization- must.

Horizon Zero Dawn- huge success and proof female leads can go a long way.

No need to do only male protagonists for more than 50% of the games.

However, I'd rather they do only female, or only male, per game.

2 different gendered characters in a game means they need nearly twice the animations, it just seems too much work cause if you hadn't noticed, AC games have a crap ton more animations in them than nearly any other current gen game.

I'm pretty sure they actually have the most out of all games. I don't think it's fair to go even further and double the load on them.

With just one assassin, the animations will also look nicer and more refined to that specific character as well.

I have a feeling though we might play as a female character at some point in Origins.

Ashraf said in an interview they have something in regards to other player characters of some sort, but that it's like a spoiler.

Might be a female character so who knows!

cawatrooper9
08-01-2017, 03:24 PM
Customization used to be a big issue back when the Animus rules were more heavily adhered to, but I think now that we're more relaxed on it we could probably have it. Just say that the Assassin we're playing as was one whose memories were added to the aggregate Helix servers- easy enough to explain after that.

WendysBrioche
08-01-2017, 04:11 PM
Customization used to be a big issue back when the Animus rules were more heavily adhered to, but I think now that we're more relaxed on it we could probably have it. Just say that the Assassin we're playing as was one whose memories were added to the aggregate Helix servers- easy enough to explain after that.
Oh, I'm sorry.

I misunderstood.

I thought they were talking about ROBES customization lol.

Nah I don't want facial customization in AC at all lol.

I mean, ehhhhh..... if it's in huge demand...... ehhhhg......

AC for me is more along the lines of like uncharted, or tomb raider.

The only area I think face customization could work would be for like a multiplayer co-op kind of thing.

But I much prefer the characters Ubi created for their stories than anything I'd make.

I like Ubi's narratives, and the characters they create.

Plus the faces they make will always match the robes they make for the character better.
*********

Like I don't want AC to become this game where like, you make whatever character fits your personal taste.

I personally think that would make the game more generic.

I fully appreciate how every Assassin has a unique "flavor", or "aesthetic uniqueness" as opposed to the other assassins.

I'd rather have several robe, clothing, and or armor customization styles that fully explore the different stylistic variations of a single particular protagonist Ubi is trying to make,

than for Ubi to make robe sets that fit different character types.

I personally think it's cool in AC and maybe The Witcher how you get this one, pre-made character, and you get to fully flesh out all the different kinds of armament and clothing that he or she would've worn in their lifetime. But that all match that specific character.

I don't know if that makes sense.

Like a particular character who would choose only to wear certain things, I think that's cool because it explores the personality of a character other than yourself, and let's you experience something you may not think to make yourself, and to experience an individual character more fully.

Games like Skyrim and Fallout have to make diverse clothing and armor to match all these different character types, any particular person, or race that a player might dream up.

In terms of clothing and attire in those games, you'll definitely find something you're looking for, but only a few of the armor and clothing items in game will match your character.

When you do a single pre-made character, one whose face you don't customize, you can have a huge array of clothing to match that particular character's style.

It enables you to fully explore the life of a single character in terms of things they could've worn, as opposed to like Skyrim where you end up wearing only a few of the items available for the entire game.

I think a huge part of what makes AC a good game is the fact you can experience something that you don't necessarily control or create. Seeing the story of someone else rather than a character that's just a direct reflection of your personality.

Now I think it's cool, and I absolutely love how in Elder Scrolls, Fallout, you create your own story, your own character etc. And I'd be super pissed if they took customization out of Beth games like some want.

But I also think it's important that some games show you a story of a character that isn't necessarily a reflection of your own ego, and tells you something from the perspective of someone else that might make you think.

Sorry I didn't explain that well, lol also I didn't want to write a crap ton more.

AnimusLover
08-01-2017, 04:28 PM
I understand, it's just that the argument "they shouldn't shoehorn in a female for political correctness' sake!" argument only ever gets trotted out when there's a game with a female protagonist. When there's a game with a male protagonist, why do we assume their story was always like that from the beginning, but a female protagonist automatically warrants some suspicion? Also, curiously the cries for "let us choose our gender!" typically don't start until there's a game that forces you to play as female. :rolleyes:

Agree on both observations. It's always assumed that the female lead is shoehorned because a strong female protagonist doesn't seem "natural".

RVSage
08-02-2017, 09:06 PM
With Cleopatra's ascension being in the time frame of the game, I would have loved a female assassin too, I feel that would have given a more interesting dynamic, to their interactions and would give the game even more freshness.


As far as customization goes , I love AC as it is. I love the characters they create in main protagonists. It adds a perspective to the narration in the historic setting, If there were custom characters, it would be just a history simulator, the character motivations add a great layer to the AC universe.. I would never want full custom characters

LoyalACFan
08-03-2017, 08:17 PM
2 different gendered characters in a game means they need nearly twice the animations, it just seems too much work cause if you hadn't noticed, AC games have a crap ton more animations in them than nearly any other current gen game.


Not to nitpick, but this isn't strictly true; Jacob and Evie shared an enormous majority of their animations. Granted, a lot of them looked kinda janky on Evie, but that was because they were essentially slapping Jacob animations (or, technically, Arno animations) on her much nimbler character model. If they were to start from the ground up and create animations that worked for both male and female models (or create male and female models that better suited the animations they already had) they could do a much nicer job, I think.

cawatrooper9
08-03-2017, 09:02 PM
I wonder how the new hitbox combat changes things. I guess we still have parkour animations, but without combat animations wouldn't this presumably be even easier?

Sigma 1313
08-03-2017, 11:49 PM
I personally don't care about the main character's sex. It didn't stop me from enjoying Halo, Metroid, Assassin's Creed Liberation, Assassin's Creed 4, Tomb Raider, or any other game. If the story is well written, and protagonist accomplishes their goal (for the writers), I don't think it matters what sex they are.

Dragonsnuts
08-03-2017, 11:50 PM
Just to elaborate on the customize your own assassin idea. I think they could do a story around a team, in the vein of Halo: Reach. Or perhaps a story around a central character that could be an npc and you're one of his assassins (instead of being the master you play as the help).

LoyalACFan
08-04-2017, 04:08 AM
I wonder how the new hitbox combat changes things. I guess we still have parkour animations, but without combat animations wouldn't this presumably be even easier?

I would think so, yeah. Except for finisher moves and stuff.

SixKeys
08-04-2017, 01:50 PM
Just to elaborate on the customize your own assassin idea. I think they could do a story around a team, in the vein of Halo: Reach. Or perhaps a story around a central character that could be an npc and you're one of his assassins (instead of being the master you play as the help).

I love this idea. It could vary the difficulty nicely to sometimes be able to play as the "pro" and sometimes as a novice who lacks some of the tools and skills of their master. Sort of like how The Last of Us had sections where you play as a little girl who's not as strong or well-trained as her guardian.

guest-5rir8GDV
08-05-2017, 06:41 AM
The Frye twins were garbage characters, I dont want multiple protagonists to return in AC. I'm not sad at all that there is no female protag in Origins, Bayek seems like a badass.

If they do a female protag, it needs to be handled right. Give her a full game and focus, no half assed bs anymore

AnimusLover
08-05-2017, 07:30 AM
I love this idea. It could vary the difficulty nicely to sometimes be able to play as the "pro" and sometimes as a novice who lacks some of the tools and skills of their master. Sort of like how The Last of Us had sections where you play as a little girl who's not as strong or well-trained as her guardian.

I'd hate this. It works in games like TLOU and Witcher 3 because it enhanced the story/character development but can't see that working for a game like Assassin's Creed which is thin on story of late. One of the reasons people didn't like switching to Desmond is because he was exposed to far less tools than the ancestor was so it felt like a step backwards. Lots of games do the master/novice, hero/side kick switch up (with the weaker, less cool character nearly always being female) and 99% of the time it feels like padding.