PDA

View Full Version : A few improvements in the AI



nearmiss
04-21-2004, 08:35 AM
Reading historical accounts of air combat during WWII, especially those of combat pilots I realize they had methods they used to stay alive and/or score kills.

Most of them preferred altitude and speed advantage, the sun behind their back, duck and run in cloud cover...and most of all the element of surprise.

Maybe 1C:Maddox could take some of this into the FB.

1. Altitude and speed would be the players issue.

2. Ducking into clouds for cover, that would take some doing.

3. Surprise...well I think that could be expressed as a random % just like selecting a fuel amount. The user would just specify incidence % discernment of enemy aircraft, by aircraft flight in properties.

4. The placement of the sun is mathmatically expressed in FB or our visuals would be lousy. So, it might be possible to say keep the AI from knowing of your presence as long as the player is between the sun and the AI enemy being stalked. The random % discernment thingy could have an "added" element of randomness, if the player was between the sun and the stalked enemy.

We need something on this order for more realistic play. It is pretty lousy, never being able to surprise the AI enemy. The AI enemy starts jinking everytime you get within a specific (targeting) distance.

I think randomness does have a place within AI and mission programming, but not exclusively like in the MSFT CFS3 mission builder. I want to make that clear...before I'm called to task on it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

----------------------- http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://avsims.com/portal/modules/liens/images/banner.gif (http://avsims.com/portal/)

nearmiss
04-21-2004, 08:35 AM
Reading historical accounts of air combat during WWII, especially those of combat pilots I realize they had methods they used to stay alive and/or score kills.

Most of them preferred altitude and speed advantage, the sun behind their back, duck and run in cloud cover...and most of all the element of surprise.

Maybe 1C:Maddox could take some of this into the FB.

1. Altitude and speed would be the players issue.

2. Ducking into clouds for cover, that would take some doing.

3. Surprise...well I think that could be expressed as a random % just like selecting a fuel amount. The user would just specify incidence % discernment of enemy aircraft, by aircraft flight in properties.

4. The placement of the sun is mathmatically expressed in FB or our visuals would be lousy. So, it might be possible to say keep the AI from knowing of your presence as long as the player is between the sun and the AI enemy being stalked. The random % discernment thingy could have an "added" element of randomness, if the player was between the sun and the stalked enemy.

We need something on this order for more realistic play. It is pretty lousy, never being able to surprise the AI enemy. The AI enemy starts jinking everytime you get within a specific (targeting) distance.

I think randomness does have a place within AI and mission programming, but not exclusively like in the MSFT CFS3 mission builder. I want to make that clear...before I'm called to task on it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

----------------------- http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://avsims.com/portal/modules/liens/images/banner.gif (http://avsims.com/portal/)

bazzaah2
04-21-2004, 09:34 AM
bump

the AI's evaise movements make it very difficult to achieve any level of surprise and as I have to play offline at the moment it's getting to be a real p!sser.

Also, the type of defensives the AI employs often makes it impossible to pursue them (unless you have blackouts switched off) which makes offline play monotonous.

Get on AI's 6. wait for till you are 300m away at which point AI will start defensive movement, or if you have got somehow closer than that then AI will start defensive as soon as you pull your trigger. Still, good for deflection practice I guess.

I really enjoy FB/AEP but the shine is wearing a bit thin. I'd rather have fewer planes and better AI.

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_05.gif

Crashing online as :FI:SpinyNorman

SeaFireLIV
04-21-2004, 09:52 AM
Well I fly offline a lot and in Campaign. i`ve been surprised quite a few times by them.

Parameters i fly on in CAMPAIGN:

1.Hard AI Dynamic Campaign. (they use different scripts- How they`ll attack, I think).

2.Hard AI pilots, they start one level tougher than your own side. Although tactics wise they fly much the same as on Normal difficulty.

3. NO ICONS. I would say it`s pretty hard for any Human to B&Z you let alone AI if you have enemy icons on.

I notice a group of four AI 109s enemy planes approaching. My group and I will ebgage, after a few minutes of this I`m suddenly B&Z by another 109 coming out of no where! I checked the replay and it seems that while you`re busy fighting, another group of fighters will often join the fight, but instead of all diving straight in at least 2 (the lead and his wingie) will stay high. They`ll go up above you and then suddenly dive straight at you.

I`ve been blown up twice by this tactic from FWs doing this.

I really don`t think it can work in QMB, it needs the Campaign on, so the SCRIPTING can use the AI to do this. I could be wrong... but this is what appears to be happening.

Just to summarise:
1. It sends a team of 4 to occupy you.
2. A minute or 2 later, another group of 2 -4 will come in high and try to B&Z you!
3. sometimes you`ll get THIRD group attack!

This is what i`ve seen in campaign.

Of course, doing surprise attacks on AI would be nice, especially out of the sun.

The AI gives me a good fight dogfighting, and I do not find it at all impossible to keep with them, or shoot them once they start fidgeting. They fight to LIVE and that`s what I enjoy.

My tactic is often to go high and barrell roll if I`m overshooting, that way the AI cannot get behind me or he`ll slow too much and stall. Fly the plane right and blackout is not a problem unless you attack too fast then turn too sharply. Biggest problem is when they decide to just extend away....

Of course I fly the I16s, LA5 and the wonderful Spit (which makes tackling enemy planes a dream).

SeaFireLIV...



http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Sveno.jpg

`FLY my children! FLY!`

[This message was edited by SeaFireLIV on Wed April 21 2004 at 09:09 AM.]

Luftcaca
04-21-2004, 10:10 AM
"They fight to LIVE and that`s what I enjoy"

LOL
oh yeah?
then feel free to explain to me why oh why most of the time they just break in the middle of a fight then you can shoot em all down before they realise whats going on?

yes they give a good fight sometimes, but whats the point if they can make deflection angles?

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

XyZspineZyX
04-21-2004, 11:28 AM
Wrong, SeaFire.

Your assumption that icons ruin the bounce is just flat out WRONG.

I've played several online flight sims, (WWIIOL, Warbirds, Targetware) and also played on no icon servers. You *can* bounce with or without icons.

Fact is, people who have poor SA skills don't look *period*, let alone look for icons. And, if you bounce from out of the sun (which sublimates icons) or from behind and below (hiding icons completely), you can still be successful against lazy or unaware pilots. Icons only "give away" approaches from the front quarter, which any pilot would be expected to see anyway.

Will icons *sometimes* give away a good bounce? Sure. But they have less effect than you think. Icons are still valuable in solving the game's graphics/montior issues, which are paramount in whether you see a plane you *should*... provided you're looking for it.

SeaFireLIV
04-21-2004, 11:39 AM
Well, Stiglr, I don`t fly Jerry planes often or much b&zers, but like you just said, it can give it away. I didn`t say it was impossible either.

On the topic of no icons, FB is perfectly well flyable without, it`s not about how panoramically (is that a word?) real it is to life, or even real life visibilty to sim visibility, because we can`t get that on a simple moniter, but personal preference and who can handle what in their sims. It can and does ADD to the enjoyment not less. I just can`t bear those little coloured markings all over those aircraft and will only bear it if others have it online.#

SeaFireLIV...



http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Sveno.jpg

`FLY my children! FLY!`

clint-ruin
04-21-2004, 11:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
Wrong, SeaFire.

Your assumption that icons ruin the bounce is just flat out WRONG.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm.

Here's what Seafire actually said:

I would say it`s pretty hard for any Human to B&Z you let alone AI if you have enemy icons on.

Nothing about it being impossible to bounce there. He's also talking about using enemy icons, which, funnily enough, only show up for enemy planes, and will show whether a target is coming towards you or heading away.

I'd agree with him completely.

You look more and more like a casualty of the war on drugs every day - I recommend a weekly quarter ounce per week of the most powerful hydroponic you are able to find in your local area. If you chose to go for valium or optiates, remember to pick one or the other and stick with it.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

quiet_man
04-21-2004, 01:14 PM
Hey people, this is about the player bouncing the AI, read and think

I doubt there is any difference for the AI with or without icons, also once in combat the AI sometimes is doing stupid things (like flying straight) But YOU CAN'T SUPRICE AN AI PILOT that is just crusing around

And YES I think it would improve gameplay (NOT DIFFICULTY) if you could suprice AI pilots when using the right tactics

quiet_man