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Ontari
07-15-2017, 01:45 PM
Okay so....

I took a break from FH and returned to the game recently, with the latest patch. It turned out that my NAT is now green (cool!) and matchmaking is more stable and quicker. THANKS FOR THIS!!!!

However, I'm constantly paired with the guys, that parry almost every attack of mine. Even feinted lights. It says, that these players are on my skill level.... bullshizit.

Seriously, how can I have fun with the game, when my enemy exploits one strategy to the limits? I miss the old Times, when this game was a deadly dance, with exciting comboing, dodging and slashing ourselves so much. And now I know why 95% of the playerbase left - the part that played the game for fun, not to fulfill their "mustwin" mentality of kids with no real goal in life.

Where is the defensive meta fix that was promised by Ubisoft??


Seriously, if you want to match me with the freking parrying machines, then I preffer the old random matchmaking - at least I could have some fun. Now playing duel is a boring frustration, with toxic players spamming emotes after parrying me to death (toxicity of this worst gaming community ever is sadly still the same :()


WHERE IS THE DEFENSIVE META FIX?!

CandleInTheDark
07-15-2017, 01:48 PM
They said in the Den last thursday that they might be testing this on the public test server at the end of the month. Roman said a couple weeks ago that they want to reduce the rewards of parry especially after heavy attacks.

Ontari
07-15-2017, 02:08 PM
For me, this situation is ridiculous.

With my hand on my heart - EVERY duel that I had, and I had like 15-20 of them, resulted in me fighting the guy that was only parrying my attacks and then benefiting from the free action, or once in a match using some 50/50. Is this game now populated only by such exploiters? Because from my perspective, it is an exploit in the game's core mechanic. You willingly stop using a wide array of attacks that every character has in favor of one trick that gives you easy victory. Not only it blocks this option for the parrying one, but it also shuts down the one being parried.

And from the game with such cool animations, combos, mechanics and attacks, we are left with one fu**ing button... this is just ridiculous, and I think I'll leave again, it's not really healthy to play it anymore (yeah... just had a duel ;) )

Gray360UK
07-15-2017, 02:12 PM
For me, this situation is ridiculous.

With my hand on my heart - EVERY duel that I had, and I had like 15-20 of them, resulted in me fighting the guy that was only parrying my attacks and then benefiting from the free action, or once in a match using some 50/50. Is this game now populated only by such exploiters? Because from my perspective, it is an exploit in the game's core mechanic. You willingly stop using a wide array of attacks that every character has in favor of one trick that gives you easy victory. Not only it blocks this option for the parrying one, but it also shuts down the one being parried.

And from the game with such cool animations, combos, mechanics and attacks, we are left with one fu**ing button... this is just ridiculous, and I think I'll leave again, it's not really healthy to play it anymore (yeah... just had a duel ;) )

This is why I don't duel. Do you play the 4 vs 4 modes? They are full of the kind of thing that it sounds like you enjoy. Honestly, duelling in this game is not about using your characters full Moveset or having fun, it's about taking no risks, avoiding harm, waiting for your opponent to do something wrong, the great 'staring' contest, and about using only the safest moves. I hate it with a passion. It's only a small part of the game though so don't let it ruin the whole experience for you.

Ontari
07-15-2017, 02:19 PM
This is why I don't duel. Do you play the 4 vs 4 modes? They are full of the kind of thing that it sounds like you enjoy. Honestly, duelling in this game is not about using your characters full Moveset or having fun, it's about taking no risks, avoiding harm, waiting for your opponent to do something wrong, the great 'staring' contest, and about using only the safest moves. I hate it with a passion. It's only a small part of the game though so don't let it ruin the whole experience for you.

What you say is so true, but the problem is that I remember the golden times of duel - from Alpha, through Beta up to first weeks after release. It was a truly exciting experience, a real standoff and dynamic exhibition of skill. But now it is 100% as you say. People just wait for your attacks just to collect their win.

Of course, I also play 4v4. But I just think, that in a game with such a wide array of different playstyles, movesets and options at our disposal, the experience shouldn't be reduced to the mechanic that grant you free damage. Especially now, when those dumbed out parry-click machines can parry virtually anything (on PC at least).

Parry should only save you from unblockables and drain enemy's stamina. This is already a powerfull tool. But granting free damage? Comon... It's like preparing the wonderful dinner with multitude of dishes and only eating french fries O.o

CandleInTheDark
07-15-2017, 02:26 PM
Yeah Roman was pretty scathing over the state of parry, he said that they want to remove some of the rewards for what with experience is a pretty easy reaction timing especially after heavies, so assuming putting the changes on the public test server in the offseason means it is near ready, I would imagine it is part of the season three patch.

I remember watching the premier stream for season two, they had a duel tournament which the winners went on to a series of dominion games and the dominions were much more entertaining.

Gray360UK
07-15-2017, 02:29 PM
What you say is so true, but the problem is that I remember the golden times of duel - from Alpha, through Beta up to first weeks after release. It was a truly exciting experience, a real standoff and dynamic exhibition of skill.

Yeah I think a lot of people will share this feeling, I know I do. I guess back then we were all new, the meta hadn't been established and most people were playing for fun, not to prove anything, not for stats, not with the mentality of avoiding death or defeat at all costs. As the playerbase has shrunk I suppose it's inevitable that we have the more hardcore players left who by now have spent months perfecting their parry timings and so on.

Everyone has learnt the hard way what happens when you try to just play for fun and use all of your characters moveset, what happens when you go on the offensive against a turtle.

I'm not sure why they chose to make defensive play so rewarding. If you think about it, being good at parry is enough, you don't take damage, so why get free damage from it as well ... this was always going to create the defensive meta. If all you got from parry was safety, then you'd have to go on the attack at some point, assuming you want your opponent to die.

Ontari
07-15-2017, 02:39 PM
Lads, we have to do something about it!!!

I thought I'm the only one thinking about it this way, and that the voice of reason is lost in this shrunken community.

Let's make the devs hear our calling! I'm really motivated by what you said about PTR and a first parry build. Let's hope they will delete the free damage.... But I can bet they won't do that, as the "hardcore playerbase" would cry about taking their only winning method... So, as with any other thing (except centurion), developers will bow to the feet of those who spam and cry the most, and things will remain unchanged.

Nevertheless, thanks for your voices. At least now I know I'm not some crazy old school whiner

Antonioj26
07-15-2017, 03:33 PM
Lads, we have to do something about it!!!

I thought I'm the only one thinking about it this way, and that the voice of reason is lost in this shrunken community.

Let's make the devs hear our calling! I'm really motivated by what you said about PTR and a first parry build. Let's hope they will delete the free damage.... But I can bet they won't do that, as the "hardcore playerbase" would cry about taking their only winning method... So, as with any other thing (except centurion), developers will bow to the feet of those who spam and cry the most, and things will remain unchanged.

Nevertheless, thanks for your voices. At least now I know I'm not some crazy old school whiner

Except theres nothing we can do about it, the feed back about defensive meta has been consistently barraged at the Devs. Also the "hardcore playerbase" have been against the defensive meta from the very beginning, Its not very fun having a staring match or spamming only safe attacks.

bmason1000
07-15-2017, 03:40 PM
This is why I don't duel. Do you play the 4 vs 4 modes? They are full of the kind of thing that it sounds like you enjoy. Honestly, duelling in this game is not about using your characters full Moveset or having fun, it's about taking no risks, avoiding harm, waiting for your opponent to do something wrong, the great 'staring' contest, and about using only the safest moves. I hate it with a passion. It's only a small part of the game though so don't let it ruin the whole experience for you.
Ii am now strictly a dominion player. Once i hit rep 20ish i suppose and i felt like I'd really learned my character and the mechanics in and out, i really slowed down on duel quite a bit. Since i hit rep 30 and don't need orders anymore, its been strictly dom. Way more dynamic, engaging and exciting and the fights are just rapid one after another. I've also hit a point now where i really excel when outnumbered, often i do better 1v2 than 1v1 so i don't even care about this gank problem we hear so much about.

I'm still terrible at parries though haha. My reaction speeds are uh...not great.

MetalDevil19
07-15-2017, 04:10 PM
You guys know whats depressing? no one seems to play Elimination anymore. Even if theres a few orders for it. I guess this pansy playerbase can't handle one life?

CandleInTheDark
07-15-2017, 04:14 PM
You guys know whats depressing? no one seems to play Elimination anymore. Even if theirs a few orders for it. I guess this pansy playerbase can't handle one life?

One life I can handle just fine and prefer it that way. For me it's because people get mad at me for not treating a 4v4 like four 1v1's, I don't brawl as much as I want to, despite that it is the only team mode with no gear score, feats or boosts which I like about it and can't get anywhere else, for the same reason. I dislike the toxicity around elimination and brawl for playing them as team games.

kweassa1
07-15-2017, 08:14 PM
I got a pretty good picture of what the "anti-turtlemeta" fixes are going to be like, in that the devs mentioned parry, block damage, and stamina. I'm guessing it might be pretty much exactly what some people (such as myself) recommended to them...


My guess is...


1. Parries will no longer lead into so easy guaranteed damage

2. Block damage will be a lot higher.. and perhaps even light attacks dealing block damage

3.ergo people will have more incentive to attack often and aggressively without fear of too much reactive counter attacks


However, to balance it out and disencourage mashing on attack buttons non-stop....

4. stamina management will become more important, so if you over-extend yourself into exhaustion, things could turn around bad

5. ...and parries will retain some of its value since it deals stamina drain


In that sense I think it's a safe bet to expect almost all forms of "guaranteed damage" being removed from parries -- maybe at best light attacks. But guaranteed GB and heavies will probably be removed.

UbiNoty
07-15-2017, 11:39 PM
Okay so....

I took a break from FH and returned to the game recently, with the latest patch. It turned out that my NAT is now green (cool!) and matchmaking is more stable and quicker. THANKS FOR THIS!!!!

However, I'm constantly paired with the guys, that parry almost every attack of mine. Even feinted lights. It says, that these players are on my skill level.... bullshizit.

Seriously, how can I have fun with the game, when my enemy exploits one strategy to the limits? I miss the old Times, when this game was a deadly dance, with exciting comboing, dodging and slashing ourselves so much. And now I know why 95% of the playerbase left - the part that played the game for fun, not to fulfill their "mustwin" mentality of kids with no real goal in life.

Where is the defensive meta fix that was promised by Ubisoft??


Seriously, if you want to match me with the freking parrying machines, then I preffer the old random matchmaking - at least I could have some fun. Now playing duel is a boring frustration, with toxic players spamming emotes after parrying me to death (toxicity of this worst gaming community ever is sadly still the same :()


WHERE IS THE DEFENSIVE META FIX?!

I'm super happy to hear you're having a better experience with connectivity and stability - hearing things have visibly improved on this front always makes my day a bit better.

As for the defensive meta stuff and parry - we are trying to make heavy parries less rewarding (like candle said) and (like candle said) we're releasing the first public version of the def meta update for testing with the Public Test that's coming at the end of the month. Once we can get some good feedback on that, we'll likely be prepping it for release soon after. So not too much longer!

Sorry we've been teasing it for so long - we knew we wanted to make changes, but it just took way longer than we thought it would. And we got overexcited about sharing the good news of our plans.

MetalDevil19
07-16-2017, 01:33 AM
One life I can handle just fine and prefer it that way. For me it's because people get mad at me for not treating a 4v4 like four 1v1's, I don't brawl as much as I want to, despite that it is the only team mode with no gear score, feats or boosts which I like about it and can't get anywhere else, for the same reason. I dislike the toxicity around elimination and brawl for playing them as team games.

https://vangogh.teespring.com/v3/image/SfwvxEC-UwchfPJk6ilrf4HbrY0/480/560.jpg

Vakris_One
07-16-2017, 01:54 AM
https://vangogh.teespring.com/v3/image/SfwvxEC-UwchfPJk6ilrf4HbrY0/480/560.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzgg6auRXq1qlh9eeo1_500.gif

CandleInTheDark
07-16-2017, 02:00 AM
Right lovely and mature. I tend to keep the hatemail people send so it isn't that the words hurt me, it is that I don't need it in a game where I want to chill out, so yeah I go to places that don't expect me to line uo and treat every single battle as a 1v1.

Gray360UK
07-16-2017, 02:02 AM
Right lovely and mature. I tend to keep the hatemail people send so it isn't that the words hurt me, it is that I don't need it in a game where I want to chill out, so yeah I go to places that don't expect me to line uo and treat every single battle as a 1v1.

I'm going to go ahead and say that I don't think you'll get much sympathy out of someone that makes comments like "this pansy playerbase". Which part made you think he was a reasonable kinda guy? ;)

CandleInTheDark
07-16-2017, 02:35 AM
I'm going to go ahead and say that I don't think you'll get much sympathy out of someone that makes comments like "this pansy playerbase". Which part made you think he was a reasonable kinda guy? ;)

Eh he asked a question, I gave an answer. If it turns out he is part of the problem that is entirely on him.

mrmistark
07-16-2017, 02:56 AM
The problem with this is that because of fps ubi literally has made 2 SEPERATE games under one title. The pc version where you can't even throw out a light without being punished as apposed to console, where parrying a light is knowing exactly that your opponent is probably maybe I hope going to throw that light, cause you literally don't have enough reaction time to parry the light on instinct. So on one hand one system, the pc, needs a serious nerf to parry to make the game less of a starring contest and wait to attack first, and on the other hand we got console which is perfect imo (a quick low damage attack- near impossible to parry but can be done based off knowing your opponent and a high damage attack with about a 60% risk of being punished without it being a guarantee). If you fix one then the other suffers and you have the opposite problem where there becomes an offensive meta on console where whoever gets off their combo first wins, and the only defense is an offensive, yet pc will be balanced like console is currently.

What they need to do is make the game the same across the board. Hell they could even make the game cross platform (but let's not get ahead of ourselves here), but regardless if they won't make it the same across each platform then they need to make sure they are considering every platform when making big changes like this.

Snoop_Godly
07-16-2017, 04:38 AM
The problem with this is that because of fps ubi literally has made 2 SEPERATE games under one title. The pc version where you can't even throw out a light without being punished as apposed to console, where parrying a light is knowing exactly that your opponent is probably maybe I hope going to throw that light, cause you literally don't have enough reaction time to parry the light on instinct. So on one hand one system, the pc, needs a serious nerf to parry to make the game less of a starring contest and wait to attack first, and on the other hand we got console which is perfect imo (a quick low damage attack- near impossible to parry but can be done based off knowing your opponent and a high damage attack with about a 60% risk of being punished without it being a guarantee). If you fix one then the other suffers and you have the opposite problem where there becomes an offensive meta on console where whoever gets off their combo first wins, and the only defense is an offensive, yet pc will be balanced like console is currently.

What they need to do is make the game the same across the board. Hell they could even make the game cross platform (but let's not get ahead of ourselves here), but regardless if they won't make it the same across each platform then they need to make sure they are considering every platform when making big changes like this.
I agree. If they made it cross platform it would solve a few problems. The unfair match ups against kids who play against hard-core players. Because let's face it. Across the whole player Base there is a fair amount of each but because we are all restricted to one platform from. Match making an ranking is some what.. Iffy. If thy made it cross platform it would (not saying will) kinda make match ups more fair. As for parrying lights. Iv seen it done a lot on x box one. Personally when they pull it off non stop all the time and never fail I get the feeling something fishy is going on. Same as you said. Light attacks happen that fast no one has that good of a reaction time. As an orochi mai and berserker starter. I reply a lot on deflect than parry. And dodging into attacks is easier than ever parrying. It's dodge and the direction. Not matching guard stance and pressing the heavy at the exact time. By rights parrying lights they should mess up a few times. But some kids never ever screw up. With deflect your either late. Early or nailed it. But deflect is very difficult to get 100%...id say 75. 80-90% with heavies. But 75% with lights depending which char your up against. Parrying needs a nerf. When you got parry mad kids banking you when you got revenge as well? Hmm. Sit back. Wait. Punish every time you try and attack back. Personally I think they should turn revenge into the anti gank tool it was supposed to be. 3 meter radious gets knocked down regardless of throwing hits or not. A stun affect and a huge stamina drain. If not all. But... Take away revenge mode attack. Replace that with sprint speed Instead. Then you have two options. Stand and fight with only a extra bit of a shield. Or run and get back up. Just a idea me and my mate had. Personally I'd rather have that. It punishes those who gank but not OP. Will be a gank deterrent so to speak.