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Legacy_Zealot
07-13-2017, 08:24 AM
After all the posts about the Warlord it was made clear to me by many people that he is an OP hero. Having played against them I only ever seemed to get ledged by them because I'm pretty hit and miss with predicting when someone will GB. Anyways I thought I would have a go with him, see what all the fuss was about. While I did not expect to become a bearded god straight away, I had expected more from him. All his heavy attacks are so slow and easily parried, heavy attacks aren't meant to be fast. But his lights also feel incredibly slow unless you spam headbutt or FGS then RB. I even tried using that jump attack with the hyper armour but it always got parried. Am I not doing something right? I just feel like any normal attack will never really hit them because of how slow they are. I know what a good Warlord is capable of. I am not one of these :o Just looking for a bit of guidance because I don't want to have a main hero, just want to be well rounded.

Just my limited experience using him, seems pretty hard to use to me.:confused:

Chucky_Jones
07-13-2017, 08:39 AM
If you play him just with his regular attacks he will just be a short ranged hero. You need to use his headbutt mixup. I'll explain. His headbutt is very hard to dodge and grants you a free light. Once you headbutt people a few times the will start to dodge every time you dodge forward because they will expect a headbutt. Then you just randomly dodge and either headbutt or wait a sec and then guardbreak. If you dodge and guard break and they predictively dodge you will get a free gb. The headbutt is hard to dodge reactively so it will basically create a 50/50. You shouldn't be using the jump attack frequently because it is slow and non feintable. Warlords side lights are as fast as ok lights, so I'm not sure why he feels slow to you. You can also use his fast zone which has crazy tracking and deals 25 damage. Warlord also has an out of guard mode charge that can knock someone into a wall for a confirmed side heavy for 35 damage. You can also sprint at someone and if they are expecting a charge you just stop spinting and gb them while they dodge. If they guess right and dodge the charge you can cancel the charge into a jumping heavy and if they try to guardbreak you they will get hit.

There are still many more tools that I left out such as full block or superior block lights but if you actually managed to read my wall of text you might understand why warlord is op compared to the rest of the heroes.

kweassa1
07-13-2017, 08:43 AM
After all the posts about the Warlord it was made clear to me by many people that he is an OP hero. Having played against them I only ever seemed to get ledged by them because I'm pretty hit and miss with predicting when someone will GB. Anyways I thought I would have a go with him, see what all the fuss was about. While I did not expect to become a bearded god straight away, I had expected more from him. All his heavy attacks are so slow and easily parried, heavy attacks aren't meant to be fast. But his lights also feel incredibly slow unless you spam headbutt or FGS then RB. I even tried using that jump attack with the hyper armour but it always got parried. Am I not doing something right? I just feel like any normal attack will never really hit them because of how slow they are. I know what a good Warlord is capable of. I am not one of these :o Just looking for a bit of guidance because I don't want to have a main hero, just want to be well rounded.

Just my limited experience using him, seems pretty hard to use to me.:confused:

The warlord is simply the best turtle, in this turtlemeta.

Tyrjo
07-13-2017, 08:43 AM
In the hands of a good player, he is a really strong hero. WL is a reactive hero which means he shines in the top tier of player skill, and maybe not so much in the lower player skill tiers. Since basically you need to learn how all your opposing classes work and exactly what their strengths and weaknesses are.

Like you have noticed, you will never land the heavies (non GB) nor Headsplitter leap on an opponent in 1vs1. Do you parry anything and use his shield bash stun? I noticed that when I learned doing this I went to the next level.

Centurion would be the opposite, he is an offensive hero that will destroy anyone who doesn't know how to handle his kit. That is why he seems so good in lower to mid player skill tiers.

Legacy_Zealot
07-13-2017, 08:49 AM
If you play him just with his regular attacks he will just be a short ranged hero. You need to use his headbutt mixup. I'll explain. His headbutt is very hard to dodge and grants you a free light. Once you headbutt people a few times the will start to dodge every time you dodge forward because they will expect a headbutt. Then you just randomly dodge and either headbutt or wait a sec and then guardbreak. If you dodge and guard break and they predictively dodge you will get a free gb. The headbutt is hard to dodge reactively so it will basically create a 50/50. You shouldn't be using the jump attack frequently because it is slow and non feintable. Warlords side lights are as fast as ok lights, so I'm not sure why he feels slow to you. You can also use his fast zone which has crazy tracking and deals 25 damage. Warlord also has an out of guard mode charge that can knock someone into a wall for a confirmed side heavy for 35 damage. You can also sprint at someone and if they are expecting a charge you just stop spinting and gb them while they dodge. If they guess right and dodge the charge you can cancel the charge into a jumping heavy and if they try to guardbreak you they will get hit.

There are still many more tools that I left out such as full block or superior block lights but if you actually managed to read my wall of text you might understand why warlord is op compared to the rest of the heroes.

Thanks for the response, maybe they feel slow because I have been using as much cent as possible before he gets nerfed to oblivion. If you wouldn't mind sharing some more tips on how to use him in the thread please do. That was some useful stuff that I'll definitely be trying out.

DrinkinMyStella
07-13-2017, 08:51 AM
He is the best not in terms of his moveset, he's a god because of hows he is played. Turtle then GB then repeat. When I played as him all I did was turtle up then GB then ledge, its so easy. There are a few youtubers who actually use him as an attacker and don't ledge, now that takes skill.

Legacy_Zealot
07-13-2017, 08:53 AM
In the hands of a good player, he is a really strong hero. WL is a reactive hero which means he shines in the top tier of player skill, and maybe not so much in the lower player skill tiers. Since basically you need to learn how all your opposing classes work and exactly what their strengths and weaknesses are.

Like you have noticed, you will never land the heavies (non GB) nor Headsplitter leap on an opponent in 1vs1. Do you parry anything and use his shield bash stun? I noticed that when I learned doing this I went to the next level.

Centurion would be the opposite, he is an offensive hero that will destroy anyone who doesn't know how to handle his kit. That is why he seems so good in lower to mid player skill tiers.

I have been using the WL zone a lot and every time I do it i feel like a scumbag :rolleyes: I have been using his headbutt then poke them. I also go for the full guard stance then poke. I normally get guard broken when I do that though. I parry a lot and go for the guard break. If I can I'll GB and throw them into a wall then go for the side heavy but it doesn't always land. I feel as though I have to rely on GBs, and when I come across someone who can CGB really well I have to turtle and see what happens.

guor6800
07-13-2017, 09:32 AM
The warlord is simply the best turtle, in this turtlemeta.

In fact conq is the best turtle right now defensively.

It's just that warlord has too many attack options where conq is literally one-move spam for attacking.

If i'm not mistaken you have described warlord as an alligator snapping turtle in another post. That was so true!

UbiNoty
07-14-2017, 12:26 AM
Thanks for the feedback guys - we're pretty aware that we need to do some digging into WL in his current state and I've seen some good points here that you all have brought up that I'd like to pass along to the team. :)

How do you feel the WL fares in situations where he can't turtle as effectively or can't be played as a reactive hero? (ie: 4v4s)

brashtralas
07-14-2017, 12:47 AM
Thanks for the feedback guys - we're pretty aware that we need to do some digging into WL in his current state and I've seen some good points here that you all have brought up that I'd like to pass along to the team. :)

How do you feel the WL fares in situations where he can't turtle as effectively or can't be played as a reactive hero? (ie: 4v4s)

He's not oppressively imbalanced in 4v4, but his abilities that make him strong 1v1 are strong there, as well.

Namely his GB shove off ledges. If he posts up on a good location, let's say point C on temple garden, he can run the point solo. So long as he guards an interance, he can knock you off the side with his rush. It's impossible to dodge, because the entrance points are so narrow.

Then, if you manage to engage him, he WILL eventually feint successfully into a gb, and then you're dead because he ran you to a ledge.

So, aside from those things that are also imbalanced in 1v1, and his headbutt(but all cc is imbalanced in 4v4), he seems pretty acceptable in 4v4.

Rikuto01.tv
07-16-2017, 06:27 AM
Thanks for the feedback guys - we're pretty aware that we need to do some digging into WL in his current state and I've seen some good points here that you all have brought up that I'd like to pass along to the team. :)

How do you feel the WL fares in situations where he can't turtle as effectively or can't be played as a reactive hero? (ie: 4v4s)

Petemoo.

Tyrjo
07-16-2017, 07:50 AM
Thanks for the feedback guys - we're pretty aware that we need to do some digging into WL in his current state and I've seen some good points here that you all have brought up that I'd like to pass along to the team. :)

How do you feel the WL fares in situations where he can't turtle as effectively or can't be played as a reactive hero? (ie: 4v4s)

In 4vs4 he's average. Since the nerf of his directional throw he's less of a threat. Usually he can never finish off a good player in time before help arrives.


Namely his GB shove off ledges. If he posts up on a good location, let's say point C on temple garden, he can run the point solo. So long as he guards an interance, he can knock you off the side with his rush. It's impossible to dodge, because the entrance points are so narrow.


I don't see how he is not ledged himself when he's outnumbered. A WL may be able to ledge one person of a gank squad, but if he ledges all of you, you did something wrong.


It's just that warlord has too many attack options where conq is literally one-move spam for attacking.


The Warlord doesn't have many attack options. Headbutt is about the only iniator that is viable, the rest of his kit is reactive. Headsplitter Leap is always punished hard with a parry.

KersmackIDKFA
07-16-2017, 08:44 AM
He is strong. Cgb or die, pretty much. Been playing alot of kensei, hard as **** vs that. Not complaining, just sayin it damned hard to break that ****.

Antonioj26
07-16-2017, 02:49 PM
In 4vs4 he's average. Since the nerf of his directional throw he's less of a threat. Usually he can never finish off a good player in time before help arrives.



I don't see how he is not ledged himself when he's outnumbered. A WL may be able to ledge one person of a gank squad, but if he ledges all of you, you did something wrong.



The Warlord doesn't have many attack options. Headbutt is about the only iniator that is viable, the rest of his kit is reactive. Headsplitter Leap is always punished hard with a parry.

He's much better than average, not sure where you are getting this. He has more offensive tools than every character in the game and is only beat out by one character defensively. His throw was barely nerfed, 10m to 7m is still a huge ground to cover and it's still the best throw in the game. Doesn't have many attack options? What are you talking about? His side lights are among the fastest in the game, his zone attack does a full bar and covers a ton of distance, his heavies have hyper armor, he has a good 50-50 oos mixup, and of course the headbutt. Just because centurion is the champ in 4s that doesn't make warlord "average."

Vakris_One
07-16-2017, 03:47 PM
Thanks for the feedback guys - we're pretty aware that we need to do some digging into WL in his current state and I've seen some good points here that you all have brought up that I'd like to pass along to the team. :)

How do you feel the WL fares in situations where he can't turtle as effectively or can't be played as a reactive hero? (ie: 4v4s)
Basically the Warlord has a little of everything. He's the most well rounded hero in the game and thus why the 1v1 tournament is flooded with Warlords. He has a tool for every possible situation against another character.

I would say it's not the Warlord that needs a nerf though. It's the rest of the roster that needs buffs so they can also be as well rounded as the Warlord.

XxHunterHxX
07-16-2017, 03:57 PM
WL has been op since the Alpha....you must be new....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAWzcBL-wns&t=175s

kweassa1
07-16-2017, 04:02 PM
He's much better than average, not sure where you are getting this. He has more offensive tools than every character in the game and is only beat out by one character defensively. His throw was barely nerfed, 10m to 7m is still a huge ground to cover and it's still the best throw in the game. Doesn't have many attack options? What are you talking about? His side lights are among the fastest in the game, his zone attack does a full bar and covers a ton of distance, his heavies have hyper armor, he has a good 50-50 oos mixup, and of course the headbutt. Just because centurion is the champ in 4s that doesn't make warlord "average."

^^^ This.

The WL doesn't really have a "weakness," and his "strengths" cover everything. As said, he's the best turtle in this "turtlemeta" because in a crude sense, the fighting style can be described as a combination of conq turtling + shugoki "trade damage".

Due to the inexplicable love for ledges the devs have when designing maps, every map has just a pure abundance of ledge, and almost every 1v1 duel area happens to have a "complimentary ledge" somewhere. So, naturally, spamming dodges in front of a Warlord is a no-no. At above average skill levels, opening up with heavy attacks is also a no-no since it's an automatic parry-GB-ledge death... careful poking & prodding with lights also carry significant risks, since his heavies also come with a UI that doesn't turn off like the shug's.

So basically, within combat range of the warlord, any attack is a serious risk -- more so than others in the turtlemeta -- and you can't use dodges too freely. So when an opponent is pressed to the defensive, reluctant to use attacks freely, and reluctant to dodge too much -- then the stage is set for the 500ms headbutt to drive people nuts. So if people feel too pressured and distance themselves -- now it's the WL charge that becomes a problem.

Each individual trait he has may feel like "average", but put them all together and the WL is simply a class with no weaknesses to exploit at all.

IesooMI
07-16-2017, 07:03 PM
Strong doesn't equal OP. This community needs to learn that.

Antonioj26
07-16-2017, 07:10 PM
Strong doesn't equal OP. This community needs to learn that.

Depends on what your definition of OP is, but if he's not than no one is. He's easily the best character in the game.

Archeun
07-16-2017, 08:14 PM
No, he is not overpowered. If a skilled player uses him, he's deadly. The same goes for any other class. If the player sucks, he's worthless, just like any other class. He's good at ledging, so is the Raider and Shugoki. If they touch the Warlord, I will leave the game. He's the only class I've spent time learning how to use.

Antonioj26
07-16-2017, 08:23 PM
No, he is not overpowered. If a skilled player uses him, he's deadly. The same goes for any other class. If the player sucks, he's worthless, just like any other class. He's good at ledging, so is the Raider and Shugoki. If they touch the Warlord, I will leave the game. He's the only class I've spent time learning how to use.

Again depends on your definition of OP, regardless if you think he's OP or not he's better than everyone else. No one is arguing that a crappy player using warlord wont lose to good player who uses kensei. What people are saying and even the devs acknowledges is that warlord performs better than everyone else and that's reflected by the oversaturation of them at tournaments and higher levels of gameplay.

He's not just good at ledging, he's good at everything and has no weaknesses. He should be nerfed but 5 months after release and he still remains relatively untouched, every baby nerf he's gotten has failed to dethrone him.

That_guy44
07-16-2017, 09:33 PM
He's the only class I've spent time learning how to use.

WTF

How can you say he is not OP if you don't even use the other classes my guy???

brashtralas
07-16-2017, 09:55 PM
No, he is not overpowered. If a skilled player uses him, he's deadly. The same goes for any other class. If the player sucks, he's worthless, just like any other class. He's good at ledging, so is the Raider and Shugoki. If they touch the Warlord, I will leave the game. He's the only class I've spent time learning how to use.

That's not even an argument. Essentially "I know he's overpowered, but that's why I use him! Fix him and I'm gone!!"

Just wow.

To clarify, I use lawbringer and absolutely think his shove on block needs to go. See? That's how it works.

UbiJurassic
07-16-2017, 11:30 PM
Thanks for the 4v4 feedback so far, everyone! Like Noty said, we know that Warlord is a common problem among players and me appreciate your feedback on him, especially when we can get views on both his power in 1v1 and 4v4.

Jarl.Felix
07-16-2017, 11:35 PM
Thanks for the 4v4 feedback so far, everyone! Like Noty said, we know that Warlord is a common problem among players and me appreciate your feedback on him, especially when we can get views on both his power in 1v1 and 4v4.

Now that you know, do something that we, For Honor players are never saw from you : BALANCE/FIX THE GOD DAMN CLASS !

Talk is cheap and we do it for months so far..

kweassa1
07-17-2017, 12:47 AM
If something is on a whole different level than compared to others, then by definition that itself is "overpowering"...

Like, how many Warlords won all sorts of tourneys so far since launch? Should be pretty much self-explanatory.

In the case of the WL, as been laid out, the "OPness" comes mostly from circumstance.... for example the "ledging" people despise so much. As mentioned the devs seem to have some kind of obsession that's like, "oh.. every map needs all sorts of varieties, so it must have an environment kill somewhere..."... except that's been overdone so much that now, it's actually more difficult to find 1v1 duel starting areas that DOESN'T have an environment kill.


● More maps with wider, open starting areas for duels that doesn't have apparent or obvious environment kills -- this, by itself, would significantly curb one aspect of the WL. People would be less afraid to give out GBs, since being GBd and hit by a heavy -- while it still hurts -- is a heckuva lot better than 1-move death from shi**y ledging or spiking.

● The hinted "anti-turtlemeta fixes" would also have some noticeable effect in that it (probably) won't be wise to just keep turtling, since (probably) the new block damage would make it a foolish tactic to just keep on blocking... in which case both the WL and his opponent would be forced to take more risks with attacks -- this has a good possibility of changing the dynamics.

● So if people aren't afraid to move more freely and dodge around the WL, then naturally the headbutts will feel a lot easier to evade than it currently is,.



These things are subtle, so it's not just a matter of "OK, then fix it" -- if anything, we really have to see what the announced "new meta fix" is going to bring -- and from that point, a whole lot of inter-class balance is about to change.

brashtralas
07-17-2017, 03:08 AM
If something is on a whole different level than compared to others, then by definition that itself is "overpowering"...

Like, how many Warlords won all sorts of tourneys so far since launch? Should be pretty much self-explanatory.

In the case of the WL, as been laid out, the "OPness" comes mostly from circumstance.... for example the "ledging" people despise so much. As mentioned the devs seem to have some kind of obsession that's like, "oh.. every map needs all sorts of varieties, so it must have an environment kill somewhere..."... except that's been overdone so much that now, it's actually more difficult to find 1v1 duel starting areas that DOESN'T have an environment kill.

● More maps with wider, open starting areas for duels that doesn't have apparent or obvious environment kills -- this, by itself, would significantly curb one aspect of the WL. People would be less afraid to give out GBs, since being GBd and hit by a heavy -- while it still hurts -- is a heckuva lot better than 1-move death from shi**y ledging or spiking.

● The hinted "anti-turtlemeta fixes" would also have some noticeable effect in that it (probably) won't be wise to just keep turtling, since (probably) the new block damage would make it a foolish tactic to just keep on blocking... in which case both the WL and his opponent would be forced to take more risks with attacks -- this has a good possibility of changing the dynamics.

● So if people aren't afraid to move more freely and dodge around the WL, then naturally the headbutts will feel a lot easier to evade than it currently is,.



These things are subtle, so it's not just a matter of "OK, then fix it" -- if anything, we really have to see what the announced "new meta fix" is going to bring -- and from that point, a whole lot of inter-class balance is about to change.

Yep. I have a very strong feeling that some classes are going to become godlike and some are going to become obsolete.

BLOOD-E-BARON
07-17-2017, 03:18 AM
He's definitely not op, up against a skilled shinobi or centurion he's in trouble no questions about that.

Ok so I read about his guard break and shield push being OP......seriously that gets changed he'd only have the headbutt left and that attack is just a dodge and a light attack to show him who's boss.

Lunge attack gets parried all the time by good players...not op

Light attacks that are almost as slow as a heavy cmon now.

Everything about the warlord attacks is so well telegraphed that if you feint the slow quick attack is likely to get blocked too.

Give the Warlord this one though, that absolute BS unblockable jab from the centurion whilst in superior block as the warlord and it penetrates really?? Mind boggles on that one

I think the focus needs to be here......

Fix revenge system
Nerf cent
Buff Conqueror
Buff Lawb, pale shadow of a character that one
Leave beserker as is

The lil glass cannon Shinobi is in a pretty good place atm

That_guy44
07-17-2017, 03:32 AM
He's definitely not op, up against a skilled shinobi or centurion he's in trouble no questions about that.

Ok so I read about his guard break and shield push being OP......seriously that gets changed he'd only have the headbutt left and that attack is just a dodge and a light attack to show him who's boss.

Lunge attack gets parried all the time by good players...not op

Light attacks that are almost as slow as a heavy cmon now.

Everything about the warlord attacks is so well telegraphed that if you feint the slow quick attack is likely to get blocked too.



Are you on PC? His light attacks are anything but slow. I would also want to know why you think Shinobu or centurion outclass him.

Antonioj26
07-17-2017, 03:41 AM
He's definitely not op, up against a skilled shinobi or centurion he's in trouble no questions about that.

Ok so I read about his guard break and shield push being OP......seriously that gets changed he'd only have the headbutt left and that attack is just a dodge and a light attack to show him who's boss.

Lunge attack gets parried all the time by good players...not op

Light attacks that are almost as slow as a heavy cmon now.

Everything about the warlord attacks is so well telegraphed that if you feint the slow quick attack is likely to get blocked too.

Give the Warlord this one though, that absolute BS unblockable jab from the centurion whilst in superior block as the warlord and it penetrates really?? Mind boggles on that one

I think the focus needs to be here......

Fix revenge system
Nerf cent
Buff Conqueror
Buff Lawb, pale shadow of a character that one
Leave beserker as is

The lil glass cannon Shinobi is in a pretty good place atm



Centurion is weak against him, he has no solid openers against him. Using his kick is a death sentence since warlord has the lowest recovery of any character with his dash. If it was as simple as dodging and light attacking the head butt than people wouldnt be constantly picking him in tournies and in higher levels of play. You're right that his jump attack is easy to parry, which is why no one that has half a brain uses it. It's also the last thing someone talks about when someone calls him OP, him having useless abilities doesnt diminish the good ones that he has. His side lights are just as fast as PKs so not sure what you are talking about. Its not really that telegraphed since hes constantly in your face. Last I heard the hyper armor was fixed so cents jabs and kicks dont penetrate anymore but I havent tested myself so can't say for sure.

revenge should be fixed
centurion needs changes that wont cripple him in singles while fixing him in 4s. Wall combos should be adjusted and so should light parry damage.
Conqueror needs a total overhaul
LB is in a perfect spot, Not OP but still shines above most of the cast.
Zerk is tied with kensei for being the worst character in the game and needs some love.

Antonioj26
07-17-2017, 03:44 AM
Are you on PC? His light attacks are anything but slow. I would also want to know why you think Shinobu or centurion outclass him.

The warlord defense force is in full effect today my dude. The denial is strong, either that or they really don't want him to be nerfed so they are being a bit dishonest.

DimmerScroll021
07-17-2017, 04:19 AM
He's definitely not op, up against a skilled shinobi or centurion he's in trouble no questions about that.

Ok so I read about his guard break and shield push being OP......seriously that gets changed he'd only have the headbutt left and that attack is just a dodge and a light attack to show him who's boss.

Lunge attack gets parried all the time by good players...not op

Light attacks that are almost as slow as a heavy cmon now.

Everything about the warlord attacks is so well telegraphed that if you feint the slow quick attack is likely to get blocked too.

Give the Warlord this one though, that absolute BS unblockable jab from the centurion whilst in superior block as the warlord and it penetrates really?? Mind boggles on that one

I think the focus needs to be here......

Fix revenge system
Nerf cent
Buff Conqueror
Buff Lawb, pale shadow of a character that one
Leave beserker as is

The lil glass cannon Shinobi is in a pretty good place atm

Anyone who thinks zerk is good where he is has never played him for more than a couple dominion matches. I don't know about any of those other guys, conqueror def needs a little more oomph. Lawbringer needs more than a top light, although their timing on the unblockable is a little rough. But zerker is in a seriously bad space right now. He has a hard stop on guard, and if parried, he's screwed.
Kensei is only minorly more viable because of the unblockable mix up and the dodge top light guardbreak 50/50. But zerk def needs work, his existing moves still have alpha bugs in them (Headcrusher I'm looking at you) and a feint in the middle of his combination stops the chain, drops hyper armor, and opens him up for attack, crappy outcome for something that is required to do. Feinting is a no brained as a zerk, and what makes that worse is that it's not even class specific, anyone can feint.

Just my two cents

bmason1000
07-17-2017, 04:33 AM
What do you mean by hard stop on guard? Doesn't blocking stop everyone?

Charmzzz
07-17-2017, 10:49 AM
Old discussion, started the same topic 2 months ago: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1653146-Warlord-best-of-both-worlds

I just paste my statement from there: Warlord Passive Feats

- Deadly: 15% damage increase; Rank 1

- Flesh Wound: 25% more defense; Rank 2

- Tough as Nails: +35 Base HP (175 max then); Rank 3

- Revive: Revive yourself; Rank 4


With those feats I literally have to hit him over 15 times to get him in critical health range while he only has to hit me (PK) 3-4 times? Plus he has Hyperarmor on Heavy Attacks, Full Block Stance, Zone Attack with heavy Damage, Headbutt into guaranteed Light and the best GB -> Throw in the Game. Am I the only one who thinks that is just a "little" bit too much on one Character?

WL in Duel:
- turtle until he gets one parry into environmental kill
- if the rare case of no environmental around occurs: headbutt into guaranteed light spam, hit trading with hyper-armor heavies, zone attack that deals heavy damage + is fast + covers alot of space

WL in Dom:
- see above
- gets 4 passive and massive feats: 15% damage increase + 25% more defense + 35 Base HP (175 max then) + Auto-Revive

Who the f*ck thinks that this is NOT better than ANY other combination of abilities in the game? A well-played WL is a deadly-supertank in Dominion. No other character can compete with these skills and feats.

kbvlcvfkhgc
07-17-2017, 04:47 PM
He's definitely not op, up against a skilled shinobi or centurion he's in trouble no questions about that.

Ok so I read about his guard break and shield push being OP......seriously that gets changed he'd only have the headbutt left and that attack is just a dodge and a light attack to show him who's boss.

Lunge attack gets parried all the time by good players...not op

Light attacks that are almost as slow as a heavy cmon now.

Everything about the warlord attacks is so well telegraphed that if you feint the slow quick attack is likely to get blocked too.

Give the Warlord this one though, that absolute BS unblockable jab from the centurion whilst in superior block as the warlord and it penetrates really?? Mind boggles on that one

I think the focus needs to be here......

Fix revenge system
Nerf cent
Buff Conqueror
Buff Lawb, pale shadow of a character that one
Leave beserker as is

The lil glass cannon Shinobi is in a pretty good place atm

i agree with most of what you said, up to this pass weekend i would of agreed with it all,

that is until i ran into what i can only describe as an amazing Conqueror that really made me look at the ole Conq in a different light,

this guy excelled at blocking and counter guard breaking like no player i have ever seen, he wasn't even that high, prestige 4 i think but he was fu#king invincible!,

it was 4v4 dominion and i played against him 4 or 5 matches and he dominated all of us, i think he got taken down a handful of times only, he had the heal on block feat and he'd just soak it all up until we got low on stam or he got revenge then he's spam the sh#t out of the shield bash and destroy us all, it really was quite something,

now are all Conq's like that? no i haven't run into that before but it really made me think that any character in the right hands can be devastating, yes i certainly think the Centurion is EZ mode for cheap *** players & personally i don't think the WL is OP, he's a good all rounder but like i say in a really good players hands he can be devastating but that in itself doesn't make him op.

Charmzzz
07-18-2017, 11:00 AM
i agree with most of what you said, up to this pass weekend i would of agreed with it all,

that is until i ran into what i can only describe as an amazing Conqueror that really made me look at the ole Conq in a different light,

this guy excelled at blocking and counter guard breaking like no player i have ever seen, he wasn't even that high, prestige 4 i think but he was fu#king invincible!,

it was 4v4 dominion and i played against him 4 or 5 matches and he dominated all of us, i think he got taken down a handful of times only, he had the heal on block feat and he'd just soak it all up until we got low on stam or he got revenge then he's spam the sh#t out of the shield bash and destroy us all, it really was quite something,

now are all Conq's like that? no i haven't run into that before but it really made me think that any character in the right hands can be devastating, yes i certainly think the Centurion is EZ mode for cheap *** players & personally i don't think the WL is OP, he's a good all rounder but like i say in a really good players hands he can be devastating but that in itself doesn't make him op.

So you failed to GB the Conq when he was outnumbered? Or how did he get Revenge to kill you all? You couldnt Dodge his supertelegraphed Shield Bash? Yes, Conq is the best Turtle in the game, we knew that before. But still, the WL is close behind him and has ALOT better offensive tools than the Conq.

Conq has no hyperarmor on heavies, no superior block on lights, no faaaar away throw, no almost-instant unblockable unparryable with guaranteed damage followup, no heavy hitting and fast zone attack, how can you even compare those 2 heroes?

Yes, every hero is dangerous in good hands. But on higher skill levels it comes down to "who has the better moveset". And on a scale of 1-10 in movesets, the WL is clearly 11+.

Legacy_Zealot
07-18-2017, 11:17 AM
So you failed to GB the Conq when he was outnumbered? Or how did he get Revenge to kill you all? You couldnt Dodge his supertelegraphed Shield Bash? Yes, Conq is the best Turtle in the game, we knew that before. But still, the WL is close behind him and has ALOT better offensive tools than the Conq.

Conq has no hyperarmor on heavies, no superior block on lights, no faaaar away throw, no almost-instant unblockable unparryable with guaranteed damage followup, no heavy hitting and fast zone attack, how can you even compare those 2 heroes?

Yes, every hero is dangerous in good hands. But on higher skill levels it comes down to "who has the better moveset". And on a scale of 1-10 in movesets, the WL is clearly 11+.

I agree that WL has a better offensive moveset than the Conqueror. However I wouldnt say he is 11+/10. He is better but mediocre.:)

DimmerScroll021
07-18-2017, 10:11 PM
What do you mean by hard stop on guard? Doesn't blocking stop everyone?

Well I meant that in the sense of there is no move to counteract a pesistent guard.

Here's what i mean

Knight classes

Warden: shoulder bash

PK: lights with a fast recovery time, opening up options to getting a switch guard stance into a second light. Zerk recovery is a little too long to have this ability. Not asking for spam light, just objectively we don't have this as an option.

Lawbringer: shove

Conqueror: shield bash

Centurion: pretty much the class

Viking classes

Warlord: headbutt

Raider: zone

Valkyrie: shield bash

Samurai

Kensei: unblockable mix up

Shugoki: unblockable swing and charge

Orochi: unfortunately has similar issues to zerk with the exception that their light attack if hit confirms a second successful hit, so essentially doubling the damage, they could use something as well to break a turtle if the meta nerf doesn't work.

Nobushi: kick while I mostly see this used defensively, it can be used to open up for a light hit

Shinobi: ranged guard break/heavy 50/50, kick

So short of Zerk and Orochi, everyone has something to break guard. That's what I meant about it being a hard stop. Chip damage would help in this particular case, however against a conqueror our recovery time at the moment leaves us open to an untechable guard break.

Just saying that zerk really doesn't have an option if the opponent doesn't want to break out of guard other than a normal guardbreak, and now that it has become easier to tech, it makes it that much harder to break the meta. That's all