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View Full Version : Valkyrie need a little bit more love in 1on1



My.Insanity
07-12-2017, 12:42 PM
Before all you haters start crying over her super fast light attacks.. no im not asking for faster light attacks or something like that.

I like the Valkyrie and her playstyle.. but with the current Defensive Meta (yeah i know you are working on it... thumbs up) there is NO way I would play her in an 1on1 Ranked / Tournament. In my eyes she is the worst Hero you could pick for a Duel and here are a lot reasons why:

- Her Dmg is too low (you need a lot of attacks to Kill one enemy)
- All her Dash attacks can can be punished with a GB after a simple Block
- Her Shieldcrush and Speersweep are easy to doge (which gives another free GB)
- She gets nothing from a Shieldcrush hit (speersweep = doge + free GB / light attack can be blocked or parryed / GB can be CGB)
- Her only usefull attack Combo (light/light/Heavy ... light/light/light) can be completly stoped by a simple block on the second light attack.

So if you face a Valkyrie in 1on1 you only need to block... their is no chance she can beat that.. you dont even need to parry her attacks.. just wait for her Dash attacks which lead all to free GB for you... even if she would spamm only heavy attacks... her dmg is a joke and so is her chip dmg.

So I beg you Devs... please look at her.. reduce the recovery time from the dashing attacks so you can CGB.. maybe give her heavy attacks more dmg if the enemy is on the ground (like you did with Centurio) or simply give her a free light attack after a Shieldcrush hit (which could lead to a speersweep or a heavy combo finisher)..and if you need more help how about adding a (light/heavy/light) combo to her Kit?

Thanks for reading...

Trenk2009
07-12-2017, 06:47 PM
I think valk indeed suffers from a lack of consistency.

When some hardly even punishable vortexes such as the conq shield bash and the warlord headbutt offer a free light; it seems weird that the Valk's heavily punishable shield bash don't. I would think it would be better to make so it does.

Rikuto01.tv
07-12-2017, 07:11 PM
Valk has some of the nastiest unlock combos in the game. She needs nothing, especially on console.

Antonioj26
07-12-2017, 07:11 PM
I think valk indeed suffers from a lack of consistency.

When some hardly even punishable vortexes such as the conq shield bash and the warlord headbutt offer a free light; it seems weird that the Valk's heavily punishable shield bash don't. I would think it would be better to make so it does.

Those aren't vortex's, those are unblockables but yeah either way she's way too punishable. Most of her kit is very high risk for way too little reward.

SenBotsu893
07-12-2017, 07:24 PM
funny how no one mentiones her bugged spear sweep.
or how her jump into unblock stance makes her untachable for the enemy.

she has many strenghts its only fair for her to have at least some weakspots.

i have the feeling ranked mode eill simply be a warden/warlord exclusive gamemode

My.Insanity
07-12-2017, 07:31 PM
funny how no one mentiones her bugged spear sweep.
or how her jump into unblock stance makes her untachable for the enemy.

she has many strenghts its only fair for her to have at least some weakspots.

i have the feeling ranked mode eill simply be a warden/warlord exclusive gamemode

I agree that every Hero should have some weakspots.. but she has too many.. she in the worst pick for Duel.

And regarding the "unlock combos" i think in Duel you should be fixed locked on your enemy... all this unlock attacks which cant be parryed are totaly f**ked up

UbiNoty
07-12-2017, 09:35 PM
Before all you haters start crying over her super fast light attacks.. no im not asking for faster light attacks or something like that.

I like the Valkyrie and her playstyle.. but with the current Defensive Meta (yeah i know you are working on it... thumbs up) there is NO way I would play her in an 1on1 Ranked / Tournament. In my eyes she is the worst Hero you could pick for a Duel and here are a lot reasons why:

- Her Dmg is too low (you need a lot of attacks to Kill one enemy)
- All her Dash attacks can can be punished with a GB after a simple Block
- Her Shieldcrush and Speersweep are easy to doge (which gives another free GB)
- She gets nothing from a Shieldcrush hit (speersweep = doge + free GB / light attack can be blocked or parryed / GB can be CGB)
- Her only usefull attack Combo (light/light/Heavy ... light/light/light) can be completly stoped by a simple block on the second light attack.

So if you face a Valkyrie in 1on1 you only need to block... their is no chance she can beat that.. you dont even need to parry her attacks.. just wait for her Dash attacks which lead all to free GB for you... even if she would spamm only heavy attacks... her dmg is a joke and so is her chip dmg.

So I beg you Devs... please look at her.. reduce the recovery time from the dashing attacks so you can CGB.. maybe give her heavy attacks more dmg if the enemy is on the ground (like you did with Centurio) or simply give her a free light attack after a Shieldcrush hit (which could lead to a speersweep or a heavy combo finisher)..and if you need more help how about adding a (light/heavy/light) combo to her Kit?

Thanks for reading...

Thanks for taking the time to leave us with your feedback! I'll definitely pass it along over to the devs to think about. We haven't announced any plans yet for Valkyrie changes, so I wouldn't expect changes to come too soon (as in the next patch or so) but it will be helpful to get the devs to start thinking about her if they haven't already.

If you've got any more feedback on which heroes you think she's particularly weak against, in what other situations besides 1v1 that you think she struggles in, etc., I'd be more than happy to receive it!

Trenk2009
07-12-2017, 11:07 PM
Valk has some of the nastiest unlock combos in the game. She needs nothing, especially on console.

Judging of the balance of a char in a game can't possibly take in account glitch that said game allow to do with it.


For instance, Orochi has a flicker glitch. Yet I won't say he's balanced because this compensates for his weaknesses... This would be pretty stupid.

I agree to say that Valkyrie isn't that weak.
Let's be honest:
- She has a very large panel of moves and mix-ups making her one of the less obvious char to versus. Indeed, you have to take into account the numerous things she can do once she manages to land shield bash or a heavy for instance.
- Besides her attacking tools, her defense isn't bad either. Pretty efficient dodges, long ranged heavys giving no gb if parried, counter-dodging, universal guard stance into shield bash ...
- Because of her attacks not being telegraphed, her speed may seem overwhelming for a large amount of low to medium skilled player.
- Even tho not being the best of the game, her stamina game is great; and her out of stamina punish is one of the best of the game damage-wise.
- Her CCs are quite efficient too and allow her to use the environment to her advantage (Headbutt long throw, push into sweep for more distance, stun effect on back pushing, shield bash guaranteed after heavy landing ...)

So yeah, when talking low to medium-high level play, Valkyrie is pretty decent.
The thing is, once in high-level play, where turtle meta and vortexes are kings; she's instantly pushed back into the trash tier of the game. Indeed, when played at high level, 90% of her super large kit becomes basically useless due to the risk/reward ratio being way too bad:
- Every one of her dashed attacks is a free GB by simple block.
- Her shield bash is a free GB when dodged
- Her spear sweep is a free heavy/GB if dodged.
- Her huge reliance on light attacks makes every combo stoppable from a simple block.
- Her very low damage forces her to open up a turtle numerous times to kill him.
- Her universal guard stance is useless once you know the cancel trick.
- Not damaging connecting move what so ever allows for a guaranteed move.
So yeah, once players are a bit more experienced, Valkyrie really needs to be more creative to be efficient; and that's the problem. Her risk/reward ratio has been clearly calculated by the devs to take in account how much she can do; but once she can't do **** anymore she's just too punishable.

ELDRIX_
07-12-2017, 11:23 PM
I feel you dude i already made a post on that

The problem is how can we buff her without making her too strong on console where she is already being a handful bc of her lights?

And I agree that you have to be very creative and have a good sense of mindgames to play valkyrie at high level on PC.

I don't think fixed lock in duels would be a good idea... Some characters just need unlock whiffs like kensei and even Valkyrie bc nowdays with 144 fps +
On pc cause she is really not that hard to parry ecspecially the second light.
Kensei would be more than trash if that happened.

Antonioj26
07-12-2017, 11:36 PM
Judging of the balance of a char in a game can't possibly take in account glitch that said game allow to do with it.


For instance, Orochi has a flicker glitch. Yet I won't say he's balanced because this compensates for his weaknesses... This would be pretty stupid.

I agree to say that Valkyrie isn't that weak.
Let's be honest:
- She has a very large panel of moves and mix-ups making her one of the less obvious char to versus. Indeed, you have to take into account the numerous things she can do once she manages to land shield bash or a heavy for instance.
- Besides her attacking tools, her defense isn't bad either. Pretty efficient dodges, long ranged heavys giving no gb if parried, counter-dodging, universal guard stance into shield bash ...
- Because of her attacks not being telegraphed, her speed may seem overwhelming for a large amount of low to medium skilled player.
- Even tho not being the best of the game, her stamina game is great; and her stamina punish is one of the best of the game damage-wise.
- Her CCs are quite efficient too and allow her to use the environment to her advantage (Headbutt long throw, push into sweep for more distance, stun effect on back pushing, shield bash guaranteed after heavy landing ...)

So yeah, when talking low to medium-high level play, Valkyrie is pretty decent.
The thing is, once in high-level play, where turtle meta and vortexes are kings; she's instantly pushed back into the trash tier of the game. Indeed, when played at high level, 90% of her super large kit becomes basically useless due to the risk/reward ratio being way too bad:
- Every one of her dashed attacks is a free GB by simple block.
- Her shield bash is a free GB when dodged
- Her spear sweep is a free heavy/GB if dodged.
- Her huge reliance on light attacks makes every combo stoppable from a simple block.
- Her very low damage forces her to open up a turtle numerous times to kill him.
- Her universal guard stance is useless once you know the cancel trick.
- Not damaging connecting move what so ever allows for a guaranteed move.
So yeah, once players are a bit more experienced, Valkyrie really needs to be more creative to be efficient; and that's the problem. Her risk/reward ratio has been clearly calculated by the devs to take in account how much she can do; but once she can't do **** anymore she's just too punishable.

"Vortex's" aren't king though, there's exactly 1 vortex in the game and warden still falls behind warlord, pk, and shin. Valk is in a better position than most but just like the rest of the cast she's still far below those I already mentioned. She's a noob stomper for sure but the simpliest counter to her is just blocking. her unblockables are all slow, telegraphed, or have to be followed up by something else to even connect. Even if they do connect they yield little to no reward and at the risk of a untechable GB.

Snoop_Godly
07-12-2017, 11:49 PM
shoulder pin is pretty useful. As a assassin main. It's same kind of thing. Dodge into an attack. Free light plus bleed. Just bait them into attacking you. Don't really see many valks do the shoulder pin. As nooby as it sounds. Practice is Ai dominion. Helps get the timing right

We.the.North
07-12-2017, 11:50 PM
I haven't played for a while, but I do main Valkyrie and here are some tips :

#1 : Spear sweep, the "yes" and the big "no no"

Yes : Do a spear sweep after the 2nd hit in your combo, the spear sweep will be very fast (hard to dodge out of) and if your opponent tried to switch his guard direction, then it becomes impossible to dodge out of.

No : DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT spear sweep after a fake heavy + shield bash. The spear sweep will come out SLOWER and is incredibly easy to dodge out of. You will be easily punished. The only instance where you should do this is if you gank a 1v1 in progress and you want to help your teamate without giving your enemy revenge.

In fact, after a shield bash, you should always do a light attack and then only, throw your spear sweep. Never spear sweep after a shield bash.


#2 : Unlock your 2nd light attack

On PC, good players easily parry your 2nd light attack. This leads to way more damage punish than your poke does. Abuse the unlock tech ... which is something I can't wait for Ubisoft to get a good fix on.


#3 : Doing heavy from neutral ain't that bad ...

A Valk heavy attack is super easy to parry. But if you do it from max range, then you will be out of range if they try to guard break you after the parry and you will get a free guard break on them !! If they block, your combo wont stop and you can unlock light and spear sweep.

Dash attack in any direction isn't how to open up a turtle. It'll get your killed.


#4 : One of the highest out of stamina punish in the game

It was already said before, but after you parry your opponent, if they are out of stamina, do the following :

Parry > GuardBreak > Fast Headbutt > Leap Attack foward > 2nd Light attack > Spear Sweep > Heavy attack

Antonioj26
07-13-2017, 12:22 AM
I haven't played for a while, but I do main Valkyrie and here are some tips :

#1 : Spear sweep, the "yes" and the big "no no"

Yes : Do a spear sweep after the 2nd hit in your combo, the spear sweep will be very fast (hard to dodge out of) and if your opponent tried to switch his guard direction, then it becomes impossible to dodge out of.

No : DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT spear sweep after a fake heavy + shield bash. The spear sweep will come out SLOWER and is incredibly easy to dodge out of. You will be easily punished. The only instance where you should do this is if you gank a 1v1 in progress and you want to help your teamate without giving your enemy revenge.

In fact, after a shield bash, you should always do a light attack and then only, throw your spear sweep. Never spear sweep after a shield bash.


#2 : Unlock your 2nd light attack

On PC, good players easily parry your 2nd light attack. This leads to way more damage punish than your poke does. Abuse the unlock tech ... which is something I can't wait for Ubisoft to get a good fix on.


#3 : Doing heavy from neutral ain't that bad ...

A Valk heavy attack is super easy to parry. But if you do it from max range, then you will be out of range if they try to guard break you after the parry and you will get a free guard break on them !! If they block, your combo wont stop and you can unlock light and spear sweep.

Dash attack in any direction isn't how to open up a turtle. It'll get your killed.


#4 : One of the highest out of stamina punish in the game

It was already said before, but after you parry your opponent, if they are out of stamina, do the following :

Parry > GuardBreak > Fast Headbutt > Leap Attack foward > 2nd Light attack > Spear Sweep > Heavy attack

She has an even better oos punish than that but that one is good if they are low enough that you can knock them out of stamina with the headbutt.

Throwing right> top heavy> Light> sweep> heavy does 68 instead of the 60 for the punish you listed.

ELDRIX_
07-13-2017, 02:09 AM
You can delay your sweeps thats why you smts should do sweeps after soft feint sb

ELDRIX_
07-13-2017, 02:17 AM
shoulder pin is pretty useful. As a assassin main. It's same kind of thing. Dodge into an attack. Free light plus bleed. Just bait them into attacking you. Don't really see many valks do the shoulder pin. As nooby as it sounds. Practice is Ai dominion. Helps get the timing right

-Parrys are safer
-you can get max punish out of heavy parry
-shoulder pin gets auto blocked sometimes

I only use the shoulder pin if my opponents mixup is really predictable i could also go for the parry and get 60 dmg if its a heavy

So the shoulder pin is only really there if you want to show off a bit

My.Insanity
07-13-2017, 07:21 AM
I feel you dude i already made a post on that

The problem is how can we buff her without making her too strong on console where she is already being a handful bc of her lights?

And I agree that you have to be very creative and have a good sense of mindgames to play valkyrie at high level on PC.

I don't think fixed lock in duels would be a good idea... Some characters just need unlock whiffs like kensei and even Valkyrie bc nowdays with 144 fps +
On pc cause she is really not that hard to parry ecspecially the second light.
Kensei would be more than trash if that happened.

as i said... reduce the recovery time from the dash attacks, give her a new combo (light/heavy/light) or give her a free light after a Shieldbash hit. All these changes would not effect her 4on4 playstyle... it would only reduce the punishment she gets and give her more options to open a fight instead of going defensive and wait for attacks.

regarding to the Shoulderpin... i dont use that much (i know i should... maybe i should train more) but in my eyes the risk/reward for it is a joke.. the timing of deflect + the timing of using the heavy is so strickt that if you use your heavy 1sec too late you will end up throwing a useless heavy which will get you punished by a parry. And ofc.. a parry is atm much more rewarding.

btw. thanks UbiNoty for giving this informations to the Devs. I will keep an eye out of there are more situations in which she struggles... but i think she is fine in 4on4... as long as you dont have to face a 1on1 against a defensiv player. I look forward to the upcomming Defensive Meta changes and hope that we dont have to wait too long for some balancing changes (would be nice if they would be done before Ranked Mode hit the Game.. i would like to play her in Ranke Mode... but in the current State i have to stick with Warlord)

Gemoroda
07-13-2017, 04:30 PM
- All her Dash attacks can can be punished with a GB after a simple Block
- Her Shieldcrush and Speersweep are easy to doge (which gives another free GB)
- She gets nothing from a Shieldcrush hit (speersweep = doge + free GB / light attack can be blocked or parryed / GB can be CGB)

not that i disagree or agree ... but have you taught of this?:

- Her Shieldcrush and Speersweep are easy to doge (which gives another free GB)
so are the wardens SB LP Shove Conq SB Orochis dash shinobis kick cent kick and so on.

- All her Dash attacks can can be punished with a GB after a simple Block
same as above

- She gets nothing from a Shieldcrush hit
doesnt she get a free forward dash light? the jumping attack?

Antonioj26
07-13-2017, 04:48 PM
not that i disagree or agree ... but have you taught of this?:

- Her Shieldcrush and Speersweep are easy to doge (which gives another free GB)
so are the wardens SB LP Shove Conq SB Orochis dash shinobis kick cent kick and so on.

same as above

doesnt she get a free forward dash light? the jumping attack?

All of those are far better than her sweep

Wardens can be cancelled into a gb and even when dodged has a stricter window to punish.

Conquerors is 500ms, can be done dashing from any direction except backwards, has a very strict window to punish.

Shinobis is 500ms for a forward kick, 600ms for side kicks, can tech a gb from dodge or even just back flip if whiffed.

LB shouldn't be doing shove unless it's followed by a block so it's guaranteed. Decent players will rarely do it from neutral since it's 700ms

I've never tried to dodge Orochis dash since it's a free parry but that's also a crap move. It has no similarities to the sweep so not sure why this was even brought up in the first place.

Centurions kick is 600ms and can immediately follow up with a 500ms heavy to avoid a gb punish.

All of these are far better and safer than Valkyries.

She gets a free pounce if you charge it up long enough to knock them down, but it's not really worth risking it since it's highly telegraphed and slow. 17 damage isn't worth a potential free GB from the opponent.