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AnEnticingSquid
07-07-2017, 04:32 AM
I just fought a rep 20 berserker with my nobushi that isn't even lvl 15 yet... I evicorated him in record time... I have a rep 10 berserker, he lies around gathering dust... He just isn't viable. When I fight with him, I jump on the feint train... It is the express line... To disappointment. Someone runs out of stamina attacking me... We just stare awkwardly into each other's eyes for a few seconds... After all, Berserker may have the best damage on knockdown in the game, but good luck actually guard breaking someone when they are out of stamina... That's like, the one thing they are expecting. I can chop people with my lights, try to mask some heavies in there from time to time, but it's always an up hill battle. Basically, I have to hope my opponent makes a big mistake to win, otherwise, it's curtains for ol' Hairy chest...

The best thing to give berserker in my totally unbiased opinion, is a guaranteed top heavy on block. But, I will settle for an unblockable... Any unblockable really... Hell, i'll even take lawbringers at this point... Just take one of centurians 12 and give it to berserker... He wont even notice its missing! Promise!

Just think of all the free points berserker has given you... All the ego boosts you got when you carved his still beating heart from his cold, extremely hairy chest... We owe it to him to give something back. That's why I am proposing the "Give berserker a freebie!" Movement. Basically, once a day, you have to let a berserker beat you. But you have to make it look like he out skilled you though! It's our way of saying thanks to the hard working men and women who suffer through playing as this character so that we all can get our orders done faster.

GrimBlitzer
07-07-2017, 11:39 AM
The Berserker is quite viable. Whenever I face a good berserker, I get completely destroyed by his heavy to light feints.

Also reputation means absolutely nothing, other than the fact people play that specific hero/heroes a lot.

It usually means that person has a lot of time spent mostly on that character which anyone could argue that more hours spent on a hero, the more you learn, the better you get. While that is true in most instances, it is not always the case.

There's also the fact that people of high rep go away from the game for awhile, and return when a patch has been implemented. Experience shows that when you leave a game for sometime, you tend to get rusty, and have to reteach yourself.

I'm not putting down your skill or gameplay by any means, heck, that persons worst match of just might have been Nobushi, or your a good player and out did him/her.

BUT, I will agree with you and say that Berserker could use something more in his/her kit.

PDXGorechild
07-07-2017, 02:14 PM
Berseker is currently not viable in Duels against most opponents. This is a fact. He does well against other assassins because he has high damage and doesn't have so much difficulty opening them up, but beyond this most match-up's are very difficult if your opponent has skill.

Don't get me wrong - the class isn't broken. In 4v4 match up's he can be viable in the right hands. When I’m not being tossed around by centurions, I’m flying through the air, spinning, chopping and hacking people to bits - with style. This is how the class is meant to be, and it's fun. Hell, I wouldn't have put up with the frustration of playing this class for so long if this wasn't the case.

The problems arise when I get bored of dicing up clueless noobs in Skirmishes and Dominion and I fancy some competitive 1v1 play. So I switch to Elimination or Brawls if my friends are online, or Duels if they're not. At this point I have a choice - reign in the relentless attacking and harassing that makes the class such fun, or get destroyed by everyone. To get by at all I have to switch my game up to a feint heavy, light spamming strategy. The only top heavies I’ll get in will be if I manage to get a guard break and throw my opponent into a wall. The endless chain attack that is my signature is now redundant unless I want to get parried into oblivion. Head slicer/crusher are both very situational and I rarely risk using either, and spin chop, although it is very effective for it, is only really useful against unblockables or countering a slow heavy attack. So that’s basically all of my very small kit now null and void. I’m reduce to fighting in this boring manner to squeeze out victories against a few classes. Against a Walord, conquerer or warden that knows how to turtle up it won’t work anyway, unless I’m very lucky or they slip up.
Compare this to when I tried out my friends Warlord for a laugh, and did some duels and beat 5 different opponents in a row despite not really even knowing what all his moves were or how to perform them.

Something is wrong with a class if in most cases, despite feeling like you played almost perfectly, you end up frustrated and feeling like you couldn’t have done anything more to win.

@Ubi – Some kind of response re the Berserker would be appreciated. Us hardcore Berserker players, though few, have been asking for some new kit or a more reliable way to open people up since beta, and to my memory I have not read one reply to say you’re looking into it. I’m aware that the defensive meta patch may be the answer to making him more viable, so I’ve been waiting out for it. But if not – please fix him!

kbvlcvfkhgc
07-07-2017, 03:08 PM
I just fought a rep 20 berserker with my nobushi that isn't even lvl 15 yet... I evicorated him in record time... I have a rep 10 berserker, he lies around gathering dust... He just isn't viable. When I fight with him, I jump on the feint train... It is the express line... To disappointment. Someone runs out of stamina attacking me... We just stare awkwardly into each other's eyes for a few seconds... After all, Berserker may have the best damage on knockdown in the game, but good luck actually guard breaking someone when they are out of stamina... That's like, the one thing they are expecting. I can chop people with my lights, try to mask some heavies in there from time to time, but it's always an up hill battle. Basically, I have to hope my opponent makes a big mistake to win, otherwise, it's curtains for ol' Hairy chest...

The best thing to give berserker in my totally unbiased opinion, is a guaranteed top heavy on block. But, I will settle for an unblockable... Any unblockable really... Hell, i'll even take lawbringers at this point... Just take one of centurians 12 and give it to berserker... He wont even notice its missing! Promise!

Just think of all the free points berserker has given you... All the ego boosts you got when you carved his still beating heart from his cold, extremely hairy chest... We owe it to him to give something back. That's why I am proposing the "Give berserker a freebie!" Movement. Basically, once a day, you have to let a berserker beat you. But you have to make it look like he out skilled you though! It's our way of saying thanks to the hard working men and women who suffer through playing as this character so that we all can get our orders done faster.

Wow my experience is completely different to yours, i'm terrified of the Berserker, i get destroyed by them so many times its not even funny, their insane dodging and powerful hits just get me 9 times out of 10,, i'm obviously not as good as you so the idea that they should be buffed is something i personally wouldn't want to see,

AnEnticingSquid
07-07-2017, 03:32 PM
Wow my experience is completely different to yours, i'm terrified of the Berserker, i get destroyed by them so many times its not even funny, their insane dodging and powerful hits just get me 9 times out of 10,, i'm obviously not as good as you so the idea that they should be buffed is something i personally wouldn't want to see,

I get where your coming from... Imagine if you just started playing For Honor and your fist ever match was with centurian? I doubt you would be sticking around... Especially if it was like a free weekend or something. I wouldnt want to see for honor be locked off from new players because the learning curve is so high. On the other hand, I dont want to eventually have to switch to one of the 5 top tier characters because thats the only way to effectivly win. I honestly have no interest in any of the top 5... But every day warlord looks more and more enticing. I know i could be a beast with one of them but is it worth sacrificing fun for wins?

But you will find as you improve that berserker becomes more and more gimmicky until he is laughable to fight. I usually lose round 1 to a berserker and then win the next 3. Because once you find out which of the 2 attack styles the player uses, he becomes the easiest character to beat. If he spin chops, feint a side heavy and parry his light for massive damage. If he feints a lot, don't try to parry anything. Just block and throw out some lights in between to beat his feints. Unless he is a deflect god, there is nothing else he can do.

kbvlcvfkhgc
07-07-2017, 04:14 PM
I get where your coming from... Imagine if you just started playing For Honor and your fist ever match was with centurian? I doubt you would be sticking around... Especially if it was like a free weekend or something. .

LOL so true!,

while i openly admit that i struggle with the Berserker i don't dislike the character in anyway, he's honest, he plays within the same set of rules as my guy and even if i get beat that's fair enough, now the Centurion, he's a whole other kettle of fish, a very dishonest OP game wrecker,

AnEnticingSquid
07-07-2017, 04:18 PM
LOL so true!,

while i openly admit that i struggle with the Berserker i don't dislike the character in anyway, he's honest, he plays within the same set of rules as my guy and even if i get beat that's fair enough, now the Centurion, he's a whole other kettle of fish, a very dishonest OP game wrecker,

To the cliffs with every centurian I fight... What makes me mad is how half the player base uses him...

bmason1000
07-07-2017, 09:36 PM
But you will find as you improve that berserker becomes more and more gimmicky until he is laughable to fight. I usually lose round 1 to a berserker and then win the next 3. Because once you find out which of the 2 attack styles the player uses, he becomes the easiest character to beat. If he spin chops, feint a side heavy and parry his light for massive damage. If he feints a lot, don't try to parry anything. Just block and throw out some lights in between to beat his feints. Unless he is a deflect god, there is nothing else he can do.
This is pretty spot on. I'm very capable of adapting to my enemy, and switching to either style on the fly if need be, but once they learn "oh stop attacking or attempting parries," its basically game over. If you fall for feints though...i will destroy you haha. It won't even take long.

A lot of people say berserker is a "noob stomper," which isn't neccesarily wrong, but i also have a really high success rate against mid tier players(which is where I'm at on a good day) because they loooove an easy parry. Feint, chain, feint some more, destroy

AnEnticingSquid
07-08-2017, 04:26 AM
This is pretty spot on. I'm very capable of adapting to my enemy, and switching to either style on the fly if need be, but once they learn "oh stop attacking or attempting parries," its basically game over. If you fall for feints though...i will destroy you haha. It won't even take long.

A lot of people say berserker is a "noob stomper," which isn't neccesarily wrong, but i also have a really high success rate against mid tier players(which is where I'm at on a good day) because they loooove an easy parry. Feint, chain, feint some more, destroy

I think every character is a noob stomper... If your new, a decent player will run a train on you no matter who they pick. I have since quit playing berserker though because he is just too damn predictable. I feel like he was made to counter a relentless attacker that swings without any regard for their own safety. But after day 1, people quit doing that... I guess maybe the devs thought people would consider parrys too hard to do often... Why else would they give him an "infinite chain"? Funny enough, Berserker is the best assassin at being a turtle yet he was made to be a light spammer. I hope they will fix him but seeing as the devs rarely ever fix anything... I'm not getting my hopes up...

bmason1000
07-08-2017, 05:22 AM
I just did four elimination rounds with randoms and we were a team of four berserkers. Then! It happened like an hour later in dominion. Nevvver seen that before hahaha

bmason1000
07-08-2017, 05:34 AM
I actually have a berserker related question. Is the range on their guard exceptionally short? Like non existant short? It feels like other characters can get me from a good distance but i have to step on my enemies toes for it. Am i crazy?

guor6800
07-08-2017, 07:23 AM
No you are not man. Berseker is the epitomy of melee special. My friend that once used to main him he told that it was pretty fun trying to swing dual axes when you have t-rex arms.

Miadous
07-08-2017, 08:50 PM
Ahhh the ol' berserker threads. I've been petitioning for a zerker rework or at least some type of new kit mechanics besides feinting, since late alpha. Personally, I haven't seen any replies related to Berserker from Ubisoft. I've seen them talk about all the other heroes though lol. Berserker is far from viable. He is only good against people that are newer to the game or get overwhelmed by lots of feinting. All you have to do is stare at the berserker and react appropriately. Block and counter GB. End of story. Don't try to parry everything. Boom, you beat the berserker. Viable? No way.

bmason1000
07-08-2017, 08:52 PM
Ahhh the ol' berserker threads. I've been petitioning for a zerker rework or at least some type of new kit mechanics besides feinting, since late alpha. Personally, I haven't seen any replies related to Berserker from Ubisoft. I've seen them talk about all the other heroes though lol. Berserker is far from viable. He is only good against people that are newer to the game or get overwhelmed by lots of feinting. All you have to do is stare at the berserker and react appropriately. Block and counter GB. End of story. Don't try to parry everything. Boom, you beat the berserker. Viable? No way.

Yeah that's pretty spot on. If you're not the parrying type and you can block on reaction well enough, i can just put the controller down because you won.

bmason1000
07-08-2017, 08:54 PM
I actually have a berserker related question. Is the range on their guard exceptionally short? Like non existant short? It feels like other characters can get me from a good distance but i have to step on my enemies toes for it. Am i crazy?

I actually meant for guard break but you can't seem to edit posts on a cell phone...

Tundra 793
07-08-2017, 09:26 PM
Personally, I haven't seen any replies related to Berserker from Ubisoft. I've seen them talk about all the other heroes though lol.

Pretty sure they're ignoring 'Zerker feedback for some reason.

It's not like we could be any more vocal about it at this point,

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1616929-Berserker-s-faults-bugs-and-other

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1675674-Beserker-Tweak

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1652128-Berserker-does-need-Adjustments

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1651711-Berserker-s-slashing-rush-inconsitency

'Course right now, I would not be at all shocked if the Berserker was in the like top 2 of the least played classes.

bmason1000
07-08-2017, 09:51 PM
Really? I feel like i see a decent amount of them. But considering how few there were in season 1, maybe it just feels that way.

UbiNoty
07-08-2017, 11:26 PM
Typically, if we see that a hero maintains a healthy win/loss ratio across platforms and skill levels we'll hold off on making changes and try to focus on priority things first - it's probably why berserker hasn't been touched recently.
I've been making note of all your feedback to bring to the team's attention though, so we'll definitely take it into consideration - and then if we start to make plans for berserker I'll definitely let you all know!

AKDagriZ
07-09-2017, 12:39 AM
i crush hi level nobushi way more than i can crush mid level berserker though

bmason1000
07-09-2017, 02:12 AM
She's only really does best against other assassins and anyone who doesn't yet understand her uninterruptible mechanics. She will fall to turtles and anyone who can keep her at pole arms length. Shes the easiest of the assassins to use in my opinion, right below PK yet can easily best a PK due to her ability to just tank a hit. I must disagree on the top heavy unblockable when no other assassin has an unblockable outside their deflects.
Agreed, as an exclusive berserker player i am opposed to making that finisher unblockable. There's a couple threads in the vikings page with a ton of in-depth ideas, some alternatives to the unblockable heavy and other berserker ideas

Yoshimitsu_440
07-09-2017, 02:37 AM
Berseker is currently not viable in Duels against most opponents. This is a fact. He does well against other assassins because he has high damage and doesn't have so much difficulty opening them up, but beyond this most match-up's are very difficult if your opponent has skill.

Don't get me wrong - the class isn't broken. In 4v4 match up's he can be viable in the right hands. When I’m not being tossed around by centurions, I’m flying through the air, spinning, chopping and hacking people to bits - with style. This is how the class is meant to be, and it's fun. Hell, I wouldn't have put up with the frustration of playing this class for so long if this wasn't the case.

The problems arise when I get bored of dicing up clueless noobs in Skirmishes and Dominion and I fancy some competitive 1v1 play. So I switch to Elimination or Brawls if my friends are online, or Duels if they're not. At this point I have a choice - reign in the relentless attacking and harassing that makes the class such fun, or get destroyed by everyone. To get by at all I have to switch my game up to a feint heavy, light spamming strategy. The only top heavies I’ll get in will be if I manage to get a guard break and throw my opponent into a wall. The endless chain attack that is my signature is now redundant unless I want to get parried into oblivion. Head slicer/crusher are both very situational and I rarely risk using either, and spin chop, although it is very effective for it, is only really useful against unblockables or countering a slow heavy attack. So that’s basically all of my very small kit now null and void. I’m reduce to fighting in this boring manner to squeeze out victories against a few classes. Against a Walord, conquerer or warden that knows how to turtle up it won’t work anyway, unless I’m very lucky or they slip up.
Compare this to when I tried out my friends Warlord for a laugh, and did some duels and beat 5 different opponents in a row despite not really even knowing what all his moves were or how to perform them.

Something is wrong with a class if in most cases, despite feeling like you played almost perfectly, you end up frustrated and feeling like you couldn’t have done anything more to win.

@Ubi – Some kind of response re the Berserker would be appreciated. Us hardcore Berserker players, though few, have been asking for some new kit or a more reliable way to open people up since beta, and to my memory I have not read one reply to say you’re looking into it. I’m aware that the defensive meta patch may be the answer to making him more viable, so I’ve been waiting out for it. But if not – please fix him!

Threads like this crack me up, u know nothing about "no good kit" until u only main orochi so get in line guys, ive been waiting on "big data" for 6 weeks now.

AnEnticingSquid
07-09-2017, 05:28 AM
She's only really does best against other assassins and anyone who doesn't yet understand her uninterruptible mechanics. She will fall to turtles and anyone who can keep her at pole arms length. Shes the easiest of the assassins to use in my opinion, right below PK yet can easily best a PK due to her ability to just tank a hit. I must disagree on the top heavy unblockable when no other assassin has an unblockable outside their deflects.

Lol the top heavy unblockable part was a joke :p I just wanted to put something ridiculous in there so that when you heard my actual suggestion you would be like " well, that's not too bad..."

I would definitely not want an attacking unblockable... No need to make him into raider light. But more like a pin or a trip or something. A way to force your opponent into close quarters. Because that's the only way berserker could be viable is if you have a tool to keep them from just stepping out of range. This would make him terrifying when your out of stamina... Which should be the case with every character imo.

Tundra 793
07-09-2017, 06:02 PM
Typically, if we see that a hero maintains a healthy win/loss ratio across platforms and skill levels we'll hold off on making changes and try to focus on priority things first - it's probably why berserker hasn't been touched recently.
I've been making note of all your feedback to bring to the team's attention though, so we'll definitely take it into consideration - and then if we start to make plans for berserker I'll definitely let you all know!

The thing is though; I'm a Berserker main, have been since launch. And sure, the class isn't outright broken. The only objective thing, I believe, that's broken is the Spin Chop move. In the Berserker's moveset list, last I checked, this move has the Uninterruptable symbol on it, yet in game it isn't Uninterruptible. That needs addressing posthaste 'cause that alone would make a 'Zerkers life easier. Or leave it as mediocre as something can be.

But, while the class might be doing well, win/loss wise, and I'm sure most Berserker mains would agree, we don't lose constantly, the class is ****ing frustrating to play. Largely because we cannot play it as intended, I.E. a very aggressive class.

The whole class is built around 1 move, the Infinite Chain. And any player even remotely familiar with, and I know this is out there, Blocking, can counter the class. This is only made worse by the Turtle Meta.

An aggressive class, you can't play aggressively. Our flagship move is something so easy to counter and negate at every turn. Even early on, when we got the 'Zerkers first, and maybe last buff, the hit requirement for the chain got lowered to 2 so we could just go straight into getting parried, instead of waiting. But with that also came the nerf where we lost the Stamina buff that came with the chain, so our Infinite Chain is now exactly half as long as Infinity.
So even if we can hit people with it, we can't hit them for very long. Either we run out of Stamina, fast, or we pull back to avoid getting parried, or run out of stamina.

It simply isn't fun, because we don't have any fun moves to use. We just Feint everything, because that's how we have to play.

Honestly, I'd be much happier losing more, if the class was made more fun to play.

sad.platypus
07-09-2017, 06:50 PM
defensive meta is problem @Tundra 793. We've come to the point where quite large group of players is able to parry most of lights and 100% heavies

UbiNoty
07-09-2017, 11:42 PM
The thing is though; I'm a Berserker main, have been since launch. And sure, the class isn't outright broken. The only objective thing, I believe, that's broken is the Spin Chop move. In the Berserker's moveset list, last I checked, this move has the Uninterruptable symbol on it, yet in game it isn't Uninterruptible. That needs addressing posthaste 'cause that alone would make a 'Zerkers life easier. Or leave it as mediocre as something can be.

But, while the class might be doing well, win/loss wise, and I'm sure most Berserker mains would agree, we don't lose constantly, the class is ****ing frustrating to play. Largely because we cannot play it as intended, I.E. a very aggressive class.

The whole class is built around 1 move, the Infinite Chain. And any player even remotely familiar with, and I know this is out there, Blocking, can counter the class. This is only made worse by the Turtle Meta.

An aggressive class, you can't play aggressively. Our flagship move is something so easy to counter and negate at every turn. Even early on, when we got the 'Zerkers first, and maybe last buff, the hit requirement for the chain got lowered to 2 so we could just go straight into getting parried, instead of waiting. But with that also came the nerf where we lost the Stamina buff that came with the chain, so our Infinite Chain is now exactly half as long as Infinity.
So even if we can hit people with it, we can't hit them for very long. Either we run out of Stamina, fast, or we pull back to avoid getting parried, or run out of stamina.

It simply isn't fun, because we don't have any fun moves to use. We just Feint everything, because that's how we have to play.

Honestly, I'd be much happier losing more, if the class was made more fun to play.

Thank you for that bit of insight. I'll bring it up.
With the current situation and things that need fixing, hopefully you can bear with us and understand that you may not see any updates on berserker super soon, but I'd still like to bring it up with the team for future consideration.

Yoshimitsu_440
07-10-2017, 12:36 AM
The thing is though; I'm a Berserker main, have been since launch. And sure, the class isn't outright broken. The only objective thing, I believe, that's broken is the Spin Chop move. In the Berserker's moveset list, last I checked, this move has the Uninterruptable symbol on it, yet in game it isn't Uninterruptible. That needs addressing posthaste 'cause that alone would make a 'Zerkers life easier. Or leave it as mediocre as something can be.

But, while the class might be doing well, win/loss wise, and I'm sure most Berserker mains would agree, we don't lose constantly, the class is ****ing frustrating to play. Largely because we cannot play it as intended, I.E. a very aggressive class.

The whole class is built around 1 move, the Infinite Chain. And any player even remotely familiar with, and I know this is out there, Blocking, can counter the class. This is only made worse by the Turtle Meta.

An aggressive class, you can't play aggressively. Our flagship move is something so easy to counter and negate at every turn. Even early on, when we got the 'Zerkers first, and maybe last buff, the hit requirement for the chain got lowered to 2 so we could just go straight into getting parried, instead of waiting. But with that also came the nerf where we lost the Stamina buff that came with the chain, so our Infinite Chain is now exactly half as long as Infinity.
So even if we can hit people with it, we can't hit them for very long. Either we run out of Stamina, fast, or we pull back to avoid getting parried, or run out of stamina.

It simply isn't fun, because we don't have any fun moves to use. We just Feint everything, because that's how we have to play.

Honestly, I'd be much happier losing more, if the class was made more fun to play.
Dude at least ur character doesnt rely on top light and zone, plus u have one of the best deflect moves. U wanna see real struggle? To check out orochi against high rep players, good luck not getting parried.

bmason1000
07-10-2017, 12:48 AM
Personally i feel UI status after two attacks was a bigger buff than some people realise, I'm a huge fan of it myself, but the loss of the stamina reduction bonus was quite harmful. Like Tundra said, with all the very necessary feinting going on your stamina gets destroyed. As soon you get in a groove and make a little headway you need to disengage your enemy because you're out of stamina or one attack shy of it.

Maybe that's the balance of it, couldn't say. Bringing it back wouldn't make the berserker absurdly powerful by any means.

AnEnticingSquid
07-10-2017, 02:02 AM
Personally i feel UI status after two attacks was a bigger buff than some people realise, I'm a huge fan of it myself, but the loss of the stamina reduction bonus was quite harmful. Like Tundra said, with all the very necessary feinting going on your stamina gets destroyed. As soon you get in a groove and make a little headway you need to disengage your enemy because you're out of stamina or one attack shy of it.

Maybe that's the balance of it, couldn't say. Bringing it back wouldn't make the berserker absurdly powerful by any means.

If they wanted infinite chain to be viable, they would have to allow you to feint in the middle of it without canceling the chain... It would take as much stamina as the chain attack... Thus making him utterly unpredictable... You either react or run!

bmason1000
07-10-2017, 05:48 AM
If they wanted infinite chain to be viable, they would have to allow you to feint in the middle of it without canceling the chain... It would take as much stamina as the chain attack... Thus making him utterly unpredictable... You either react or run!
You can, i do it constantly. I don't know if you keep the UI though...? Is that what you mean? I've never paid attention now that i think about it, honestly.

PDXGorechild
07-10-2017, 03:51 PM
Threads like this crack me up, u know nothing about "no good kit" until u only main orochi so get in line guys, ive been waiting on "big data" for 6 weeks now.

I've been waiting since beta for the Zerk to be looked at, or even have a reply to one of the many concern threads on the forums. So not much sympathy for ya there, buddy. Try Berserker out for a while and I think you'll find we have very similar problems.


Thank you for that bit of insight. I'll bring it up.
With the current situation and things that need fixing, hopefully you can bear with us and understand that you may not see any updates on berserker super soon, but I'd still like to bring it up with the team for future consideration.

Hurrah for the first ever reply to a "Berserker concerns" thread! As myself, Tundra, s0mi and numerous others have said - we know he's not broken, but the style you have to play in to even stand a chacne against anyone outside of 4v4 vs noobs games is, I imagine, not the way Ubi intended Berserker to be played.

AnEnticingSquid
07-10-2017, 03:56 PM
You can, i do it constantly. I don't know if you keep the UI though...? Is that what you mean? I've never paid attention now that i think about it, honestly.

I mean keep ui and lowered stamina cost. But you can feint as well as attack. It won't fix berserker, but it would be a start

Yoshimitsu_440
07-10-2017, 05:24 PM
I've been waiting since beta for the Zerk to be looked at, or even have a reply to one of the many concern threads on the forums. So not much sympathy for ya there, buddy. Try Berserker out for a while and I think you'll find we have very similar problems.



Hurrah for the first ever reply to a "Berserker concerns" thread! As myself, Tundra, s0mi and numerous others have said - we know he's not broken, but the style you have to play in to even stand a chacne against anyone outside of 4v4 vs noobs games is, I imagine, not the way Ubi intended Berserker to be played.

Why would u be waiting since beta for zerker buff? Orochi got nerfed into oblivion since like what, alpha? Plus your fient train works a lot better that just top light and zone

Tundra 793
07-10-2017, 07:00 PM
Hurrah for the first ever reply to a "Berserker concerns" thread!

Huzzah!


Thank you for that bit of insight. I'll bring it up.
With the current situation and things that need fixing, hopefully you can bear with us and understand that you may not see any updates on berserker super soon, but I'd still like to bring it up with the team for future consideration.

Thanks for finally acknowledging the Berserker's plight.

While I think we've been really patient so far, and are willing to be a bit longer; we won't expect to see our Berserker tweaked super soon, but ya'll can't expect us to keep playing it super much.

bmason1000
07-11-2017, 12:14 AM
I mean keep ui and lowered stamina cost. But you can feint as well as attack. It won't fix berserker, but it would be a start
Agreed. That's probably big enough that berserker players would notice and appreciate but small enough that other players wouldn't even realise it haha. I'm for it.

Vingrask
07-11-2017, 03:24 AM
If I kept playing the rhythm I used to do I should be a rep 50 if allowed. After the daily long sessions where I've had got 14 reps only doing Duels I realized how damn much effort I was putting for a win. Since then I gained only 2 more reps. Today I don't play anymore, but just wait.

So first, Berserker problem is the core defense. Nothing should be changed before that. No Hero at all!

Second... well, there is no second. We need the core defense balance. We need end the defense as the only viable tactic.

Watch this recent example of what a defense is suppose to do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XxNuGwdq3g&t=1145s

As we can see, defense should just negate damage. Defense should never guarantee damage, except when it is build on character or when such a thing have a high cost, being it a high risk or a high demand. Parry in FH should lead to a momentum change, but not guarantee anything! Except if they manage to make it costly or really riskier. Today Parry is too simple and it is killing this game for fighting game players. Any hero can be played the damn same way!

There is no mixups as tactic. There is Parry! The is no character knowledge and mastery. There is Parry!

After we end this big mistake that the core defense is we can talk about change any hero!

PDXGorechild
07-11-2017, 08:36 AM
So first, Berserker problem is the core defense. Nothing should be changed before that. No Hero at all!

Second... well, there is no second. We need the core defense balance. We need end the defense as the only viable tactic.

After we end this big mistake that the core defense is we can talk about change any hero!

I agree that the defensive Meta should be fixed before anything is done with regard to balancing classes. However, I still forsee the Berserker having troubles opening people up or maintaining his chain attack with any kind of reliability. Time will tell I guess.


While I think we've been really patient so far, and are willing to be a bit longer; we won't expect to see our Berserker tweaked super soon, but ya'll can't expect us to keep playing it super much.

I dunno man, if I don't see crazy buffs super soon, I think i'm gonna go Berserk.

Legacy_Zealot
07-11-2017, 11:27 AM
I get destroyed by them every time, so fast and their top heavy gives me nightmares... so much damage... Maybe I'm not very good at fighting them because I dont see many because they aren't top tier?

bmason1000
07-11-2017, 08:33 PM
I get destroyed by them every time, so fast and their top heavy gives me nightmares... so much damage... Maybe I'm not very good at fighting them because I dont see many because they aren't top tier?
That could definitely be the issue. If you don't see them often enough to understand them, they may seem like a random chaos generator. With experience though, they are largely the opposite. It was brought up earlier in the thread that there's two distinct berserker styles which can also add to the confusion of those unfamiliar. I assure you, if berserker is big trouble for someone (small trouble makes sense for a lot of players) it is definitely due to unfamiliarity. Keep playing, focus a little harder on your berserker match ups, really pay attention to the rhythm and patterns, and it will become much easier in time.

Or it won't, some people are just bad in some match ups. For me its kensei and conq. Widely considered poor characters but they are nightmares for me, so, who knows.

Existentialmeme
07-11-2017, 09:32 PM
But with that also came the nerf where we lost the Stamina buff that came with the chain, so our Infinite Chain is now exactly half as long as Infinity.

Infinity / 2 = Infinity

Infinity divided by 2 is still Infinity.

Just pointing it out, It's basic Infinity property :)

Tundra 793
07-13-2017, 04:17 AM
Infinity / 2 = Infinity

Infinity divided by 2 is still Infinity.

Just pointing it out, It's basic Infinity property :)

Thanks for the math lesson, but my comment was more satire than anything else. Specifically that the Berserker's "Infinite" Chain is comically short.

bmason1000
07-13-2017, 04:38 AM
Thanks for the math lesson, but my comment was more satire than anything else. Specifically that the Berserker's "Infinite" Chain is comically short.

Yep. Four swings, five max, and one or two of those are feints. So...three.

nufrancis
07-13-2017, 04:42 AM
She's only really does best against other assassins and anyone who doesn't yet understand her uninterruptible mechanics. She will fall to turtles and anyone who can keep her at pole arms length. Shes the easiest of the assassins to use in my opinion, right below PK yet can easily best a PK due to her ability to just tank a hit. I must disagree on the top heavy unblockable when no other assassin has an unblockable outside their deflects.

Agreed, Im PK main (2nd main) and berserker is a bad match for PK. His Hyper Armour attack can negate PK light (obviously her no 1 arsenal). For PK strip her light and she is 50% dying.

DimmerScroll021
07-13-2017, 05:22 AM
The Berserker is quite viable. Whenever I face a good berserker, I get completely destroyed by his heavy to light feints.

Also reputation means absolutely nothing, other than the fact people play that specific hero/heroes a lot.

It usually means that person has a lot of time spent mostly on that character which anyone could argue that more hours spent on a hero, the more you learn, the better you get. While that is true in most instances, it is not always the case.

There's also the fact that people of high rep go away from the game for awhile, and return when a patch has been implemented. Experience shows that when you leave a game for sometime, you tend to get rusty, and have to reteach yourself.

I'm not putting down your skill or gameplay by any means, heck, that persons worst match of just might have been Nobushi, or your a good player and out did him/her.

BUT, I will agree with you and say that Berserker could use something more in his/her kit.

No hes not, zerker is by far not viable at all. No disrespect to you but unless you have actually played the class, please don't tell people who actively play the class how it is.

As it stands, zerker has literally and I mean literally, no tools other than 1. Basic attacks (everyone has) 2. Feints (everyone has) and 3. Guard breaks (everyone has). I would say deflects however due to how they don't do the same stamina damage as a parry, they aren't even used or used rarely. The forward throw stamina damage is laughable next to a raider, cent, shugoki, Valkyrie stamina drain moves which are literally all faster and can be fired in less time and require dodging and aren't as easily countered as a guardbreak.

Our zone attack is the longest in the game and hits four times which at this point gets parried on the last hit < 80% ofthe time. Our "infinite combo" which gets parried on either the first or second hit due to it being a heavy and how slow it is is a wasted spot on our moveset, our spinning chop, helm splitter and head crusher are parry bait due to them being severely telegraphed and easily avoided all make the class very very weak.

No sir, viable is not a word that a zerker knows right now. Don't sugar coat trash, because I have dedicated myself to learning every ounce of that class, from mastering light cancel opposite light to left feint right feint top light and I assure you, they are by far the worst class bar none. They are literally the most neglected class in the game while the devs cater to the pandering crowd of wardens centurions, warlords, peacekeepers, and every other class that has tools already outside of the previous three mentioned above.

The OP is 100% correct, zerker is awful and unfortunately I am afraid the devs have waited far too long to make up to players that wanted to dedicate themselves to that class.

If you are getting destroyed, learn to parry, and if you are a shield class, learn to block and then guard break, as that bug was reintroduced on the last patch and we are currently unable to tech a guardbreak off a successful block off a shield (which is garbage).

DimmerScroll021
07-13-2017, 05:49 AM
Typically, if we see that a hero maintains a healthy win/loss ratio across platforms and skill levels we'll hold off on making changes and try to focus on priority things first - it's probably why berserker hasn't been touched recently.
I've been making note of all your feedback to bring to the team's attention though, so we'll definitely take it into consideration - and then if we start to make plans for berserker I'll definitely let you all know!

This has been the same answer over and over while a vast majority of the playerbase has agreed that berserker is in a sorry state right now.

Win/loss ratio is similar to saying that you can determine a character is in need of adjustment basedon the median rep level gained by a certain class alone.

Here's a clue, rule of averages states that when you have a lower pool of entries, the greater the impact one number can make. So if there is a smaller population of people playing the class, one person has a huge impact vs a class where a larger population plays where one number has a lesser impact.

The thing I don't believe your team is looking at is exactly the way that pans out. If there is one player that plays only dominion for example, never touched duels, never did a brawl, and has a 95% win rate. The take two additional people with a 30% win rate. 155/3= 51.3% win rate, then add another one person with a 90% win rate 245/4=60.8% win rate. I just moved the win rate by almost 9%. Now do that with double or triple the numbers tripling the numbers 6*30=180 3*95=285 total 465/9= 51.6% win rate and add a 90% win rate to it 555/10=55.5% win rate or a 3.9% increase. The population size as well as population overall experience should play a factor in determining what classes to look at. And it's safe to say that a majority of the playerbase has stated since launch that berserker is by far in need of work, but this is the same response we get, just about every time.

Wait until your ranked comes out, then you won't have anything to hide as I am certain that zerkers will be the smallest population in ranked as it is a severe handicap to play as a class that has no unique attack style other than regular attacks, feints and guard breaks. I wish you all would just stand up and tells us to just go to another game because you clearly aren't listening.

AnEnticingSquid
07-13-2017, 05:05 PM
Here's a clue, rule of averages states that when you have a lower pool of entries, the greater the impact one number can make. So if there is a smaller population of people playing the class, one person has a huge impact vs a class where a larger population plays where one number has a lesser impact.

The thing I don't believe your team is looking at is exactly the way that pans out. If there is one player that plays only dominion for example, never touched duels, never did a brawl, and has a 95% win rate. The take two additional people with a 30% win rate. 155/3= 51.3% win rate, then add another one person with a 90% win rate 245/4=60.8% win rate. I just moved the win rate by almost 9%. Now do that with double or triple the numbers tripling the numbers 6*30=180 3*95=285 total 465/9= 51.6% win rate and add a 90% win rate to it 555/10=55.5% win rate or a 3.9% increase. The population size as well as population overall experience should play a factor in determining what classes to look at.

I'm just going to take your word for it because I don't have 4 hours to check your math haha. But yeah, he is in a pretty abysmal state...