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View Full Version : Aircraft turning on a sixpence. -nt



XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 05:13 PM
nt = No Text

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 05:13 PM
nt = No Text

XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 05:15 PM
your point being?

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XyZspineZyX
09-09-2003, 07:25 PM
Err don't know what happened there ?
Anyhow has anyone experianced enemy (AI) aircraft being able to turn around on the spot without suffering any of the effects that would normally accompany a high speed & G turn. Iv'e experianced this on head to head pass's turned my plane around and the enemy is about 2 yards from my plane with all guns blazin. Ive encountered this on a few occassions and have even caught it on the recording. However i've deleted this now prior to finding out that i could send it in.
Anyone else come accross this?
Anyhow cheers olegg for a great sim.

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 05:09 AM
yeah, they can do it. I think its been posted before. I have seen them turn very quickly. It doesnt happen that often, but is annoying when it does.

...and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward,
for there you have been and there you long to return.
~leonardo de vinci

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 08:39 AM
Diablotye, my observations on a couple of the AI FM simplifications I've noticed so far. Sorry if this is old news.
The AI FM doesn't suffer from control heaviness at high speed, unlike player FM. That is, there is no reduction in pitch/roll rate with high speeds for the AI. A frequent AI tactic is to dive away from a fight, then pitch back up at high speed. Trying to follow this in the player's aircraft is impossible, and the AI aircraft can generate some pretty impressive turn rates/radii at high speed with no g, blackout, or stick force limitations. The high-speed nose-over at the top of this maneuver is pretty impressive too, and equally impossible to follow. This AI freedom is not airframe specific. Switching to a player version of the aircraft the AI maneuvered in such a fashion, I was unable to come close to duplicating these maneuvers. As a result, real world tactics can't be used, resulting in one of the more glaring "sim-isms".
The AI FM can accelerate/decelerate more aggressively than the player FM. The AI FM apparently models induced drag correctly, but at high speeds doesn't account for g limits, control stiffness, or blackout. So after diving to 600+ kph, the AI can turn 180 degrees in about 5 seconds, and with the induced drag associated with this exceedingly high g maneuver, slow down enough to avoid an overshoot. Such turn performance/deceleration is impossible (as it should be) with the player FM.
I keep guessing that the problem with using the full player's version of the FM for all AI aircraft is that having a desktop crunch numbers for 16 full flight models would bring it to a screeching halt. I've never gotten a confirmation of this suspicion though. For those suggesting that 1C do an early jets sim next, I'd say not 'till they've got the AI FM more sorted out. As it is now, high speed fighting off-line is not a good choice for the player, unless you're the only one at high speed. If everyone (AI and player) is running around fast in jets, the FB sim jockey has the deck stacked against him. It also makes me wonder how the P-80/Me-262 fights will play out off-line when the aircraft pack is released.

Blotto

"Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter craft, no matter how technically advanced." - A. Galland

"Look, do you want the jets, or would you rather I slap the props back on?" - W. Messerschmitt

XyZspineZyX
09-10-2003, 04:26 PM
Blottogg wrote:
- Diablotye, my observations on a couple of the AI FM
- simplifications I've noticed so far. Sorry if this
- is old news.
- The AI FM doesn't suffer from control heaviness at
- high speed, unlike player FM. That is, there is no
- reduction in pitch/roll rate with high speeds for
- the AI. A frequent AI tactic is to dive away from a
- fight, then pitch back up at high speed. Trying to
- follow this in the player's aircraft is impossible,
- and the AI aircraft can generate some pretty
- impressive turn rates/radii at high speed with no g,
- blackout, or stick force limitations. The
- high-speed nose-over at the top of this maneuver is
- pretty impressive too, and equally impossible to
- follow. This AI freedom is not airframe specific.
- Switching to a player version of the aircraft the AI
- maneuvered in such a fashion, I was unable to come
- close to duplicating these maneuvers. As a result,
- real world tactics can't be used, resulting in one
- of the more glaring "sim-isms".
- The AI FM can accelerate/decelerate more
- aggressively than the player FM. The AI FM
- apparently models induced drag correctly, but at
- high speeds doesn't account for g limits, control
- stiffness, or blackout. So after diving to 600+
- kph, the AI can turn 180 degrees in about 5 seconds,
- and with the induced drag associated with this
- exceedingly high g maneuver, slow down enough to
- avoid an overshoot. Such turn
- performance/deceleration is impossible (as it should
- be) with the player FM.
- I keep guessing that the problem with using the full
- player's version of the FM for all AI aircraft is
- that having a desktop crunch numbers for 16 full
- flight models would bring it to a screeching halt.
- I've never gotten a confirmation of this suspicion
- though. For those suggesting that 1C do an early
- jets sim next, I'd say not 'till they've got the AI
- FM more sorted out. As it is now, high speed
- fighting off-line is not a good choice for the
- player, unless you're the only one at high speed.
- If everyone (AI and player) is running around fast
- in jets, the FB sim jockey has the deck stacked
- against him. It also makes me wonder how the
- P-80/Me-262 fights will play out off-line when the
- aircraft pack is released.
-
- Blotto
-
- "Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart,
- will bring success to any fighter craft, no matter
- how technically advanced." - A. Galland
-
- "Look, do you want the jets, or would you rather I
- slap the props back on?" - W. Messerschmitt

As a fellow off liner, I believe you are right on the money. Irritating though it may be, it does force you to adhere to the "one pass, haul A##" school of fighter tactics. That's probably not a bad thing, IMO...

ZG77_Nagual
09-10-2003, 04:55 PM
In my opinion the AI needs all the help it can get

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