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View Full Version : Will Orochi flicker ever be fixed?



AnEnticingSquid
07-05-2017, 04:45 AM
Im just wondering... It has been in the game since launch... I think you have gathered enough data ubisoft. I never fight Orochis that don't abuse the ever living **** out of this. There is no way it can be that hard to fix! Or just add it to his move list and make it a real thing...

RenegadeRasta
07-05-2017, 05:25 AM
What is this fllcker I keep hearing about?

Linnix1
07-05-2017, 05:30 AM
What is this fllcker I keep hearing about?

You know how orochi zone attack comes in from the left. You can do a glitch where you can perform the zone attack cancel out of it and throw a light from the top. Effectively attacking from two ways at once.

Titanodragon
07-05-2017, 05:39 AM
Dude they are totally working on it, at least that's what they say...........................

bmason1000
07-05-2017, 06:00 AM
What is this fllcker I keep hearing about?

Instead of pressing the light and heavy attack buttons simultaneously to do a zone, you hit them in rapid succession. So it initially shows the red indicator for a top light (when you hit the light attack button,) then immediately shows the side indicator when the zone comes out (because you hit heavy attack button fast enough, a zone attack happens.) So the indicator "flickers" from top (for the top light attack that NEVER EVEN STARTS) to side for the now 100% unreactable zone attack you're getting hit by.

bmason1000
07-05-2017, 06:04 AM
Essentially, a side attack is occurring but its showing an indicator for a top attack.

RenegadeRasta
07-05-2017, 06:15 AM
Wow, that's crazy. I've been leveling up Orochi and have never heard of it til now, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone pull that off. (I won't be doing it)

These heroes and their crazy glitches. Not lookin to good.

bmason1000
07-05-2017, 06:20 AM
Wow, that's crazy. I've been leveling up Orochi and have never heard of it til now, but I don't think I've ever seen anyone pull that off. (I won't be doing it)

These heroes and their crazy glitches. Not lookin to good.
Now that you're aware, you'll notice it. Until it was explained to me i didn't think i saw anyone do it either haha. Honestly though, doesn't seem as common as it used to be so, who knows.

bmason1000
07-05-2017, 06:23 AM
https://youtu.be/LEoo3DLJLoE

Short vid, 14 seconds. Shows a dodge attack followed by a zone flick in slow motion. You'll notice the top indicator shows DURING the zone startup.

RenegadeRasta
07-05-2017, 06:32 AM
Yep. That's a bug that I don't think I've ever seen before.

Charmzzz
07-05-2017, 08:29 AM
It is not a "Bug", the flicker is related to the network code and how input works for light and heavy attacks. As far as I remember they said in a Warriors Den that the light attack is a bumper, the heavy attack is a trigger. So if you touch the light attack button it will immediately fire, but the heavy will only fire after a brief period holding the button.
Since zone attacks are fired when pressing both buttons, there is a short duration where the client has to wait for a heavy input if you press light attack. But in a high responsive game they start playing the light attack animation and indicator as soon as the light bumper is detected. If the user then presses heavy in the timeframe for triggering a zone attack it "overwrites" the light attack.

They said, in that Warriors Den where they talked about it, that they are playing around with different methods to "fix" it, but is it not an easy task and they did not know if they can find a solution.

I think this is a major flaw in their engine, but I do not think it is possible to "fix" completely. The only thing they can do is to change the timeframes (for playing light and waiting for heavy input to zone attack). But this is tricky and can totally destroy the responsiveness of the whole game.

Draghmar
07-05-2017, 08:42 AM
Of course it's a bug. You even stated this yourself by saying it's a major flaw in their engine. That is exactly what the bug is. It's some kind of error or bad design in a code and in this case the error is related to the way they designed light and light+heavy triggering. And it is possible to fix this by changing how zone attacks works - someone posted this some time ago and in my opinion this would be great solution to the broken move - just make it so zone attacks have to be invoked from the guard direction they are attacks from. So in case or Orochi if zone comes from his left side force him to actually make guard in that direction before they can push light+heavy. This way there won't be any difference if it is zone or light. You still get your guard in the proper direction.
There already attack that needs guard to be in specific direction. I think even Orochi has one like that. So it is technically possible.

Charmzzz
07-05-2017, 09:01 AM
It is not a "Bug" in a programmer sense. A "Bug" is the wrong behaviour of Code you have written. This is more or less "working as intended". It is a design flaw, but not a coding error by any means.

Your suggested solution sounds good though Draghmar.

C00tBAjenkins
07-05-2017, 09:30 AM
I wonder if the change in 1.09
(Developer comments: Time Snap is a legacy system we’ve had at the core of our fight system for a very long time. To be brief, it snaps actions at 100ms in order to guarantee synchronized contacts. The downside of this system has been input latency.)
I know it will fix throwing random attacks long after button press...atleast i hope. I've missed a parry only to throw a heavy out right after im hit or get out of a failed cgb attempt to me throwing a random gb. Sometimes it works out in my favor but mostly not.

Hopefully it will.

Arekonator
07-05-2017, 02:36 PM
While it technically affects every character, some heroes (the ones with fast zone attack) benefit from it far more than others. The fact that most of those heroes are very high in the foodchain even without it is just cherry on top.

Yoshimitsu_440
07-05-2017, 03:23 PM
Im just wondering... It has been in the game since launch... I think you have gathered enough data ubisoft. I never fight Orochis that don't abuse the ever living **** out of this. There is no way it can be that hard to fix! Or just add it to his move list and make it a real thing...

FYI I would say 90% of orochi players rely on zone attack and all their zone flickers happens unintentionally do to input lag of their light and heavy attacks.

XxHunterHxX
07-05-2017, 04:25 PM
the bug is in the game since the alpha......so no

Shakti.
07-05-2017, 05:53 PM
Im just wondering... It has been in the game since launch... I think you have gathered enough data ubisoft. I never fight Orochis that don't abuse the ever living **** out of this. There is no way it can be that hard to fix! Or just add it to his move list and make it a real thing...

Better question would be. Will Orochi ever got to do more then 2 moves viable in a duel.

Blasto95
07-05-2017, 07:47 PM
Instead of pressing the light and heavy attack buttons simultaneously to do a zone, you hit them in rapid succession. So it initially shows the red indicator for a top light (when you hit the light attack button,) then immediately shows the side indicator when the zone comes out (because you hit heavy attack button fast enough, a zone attack happens.) So the indicator "flickers" from top (for the top light attack that NEVER EVEN STARTS) to side for the now 100% unreactable zone attack you're getting hit by.

It is 100% reactable. Tough? Sure as hell it is. But you can pick up on patterns of players and anticipate the Zone Attack.
Also to perform the Zone Attack Flicker requires ZERO knowledge of how to perform the flicker. I would know, I did it for at least a month if not more without knowing how.
The problem is with flicker being widely used, is that its WAYYY to easy to do. Its simply Light Attack followed by Heavy Attack immediately. At the same time you need to have you guard in a different direction as where your zone attack comes out. AKA What half decent Orochi does not have their guard at the top at all times. When they perfrom zone attack, theres your flicker. Having to hold top guard at all times, and the incredibly easy flicker "exploit" allows just about every Orochi to do this.

Stop blamming the "exploiters" when theyre just trying to play the game. Im not going to hinder my experience because of Ubisofts mess up they cant fix.

Yoshimitsu_440
07-05-2017, 08:18 PM
It is 100% reactable. Tough? Sure as hell it is. But you can pick up on patterns of players and anticipate the Zone Attack.
Also to perform the Zone Attack Flicker requires ZERO knowledge of how to perform the flicker. I would know, I did it for at least a month if not more without knowing how.
The problem is with flicker being widely used, is that its WAYYY to easy to do. Its simply Light Attack followed by Heavy Attack immediately. At the same time you need to have you guard in a different direction as where your zone attack comes out. AKA What half decent Orochi does not have their guard at the top at all times. When they perfrom zone attack, theres your flicker. Having to hold top guard at all times, and the incredibly easy flicker "exploit" allows just about every Orochi to do this.

Stop blamming the "exploiters" when theyre just trying to play the game. Im not going to hinder my experience because of Ubisofts mess up they cant fix.

Amen brother, well said.

AnEnticingSquid
07-05-2017, 09:31 PM
It is 100% reactable. Tough? Sure as hell it is. But you can pick up on patterns of players and anticipate the Zone Attack.
Also to perform the Zone Attack Flicker requires ZERO knowledge of how to perform the flicker. I would know, I did it for at least a month if not more without knowing how.
The problem is with flicker being widely used, is that its WAYYY to easy to do. Its simply Light Attack followed by Heavy Attack immediately. At the same time you need to have you guard in a different direction as where your zone attack comes out. AKA What half decent Orochi does not have their guard at the top at all times. When they perfrom zone attack, theres your flicker. Having to hold top guard at all times, and the incredibly easy flicker "exploit" allows just about every Orochi to do this.

Stop blamming the "exploiters" when theyre just trying to play the game. Im not going to hinder my experience because of Ubisofts mess up they cant fix.

Whoa calm down there sparky... I know it's tough hearing someone criticize your main but jeez... That's alright, you don't have to admit that most players do it on purpose, we all know the truth anyway.

bmason1000
07-05-2017, 09:38 PM
It is 100% reactable. Tough? Sure as hell it is. But you can pick up on patterns of players and anticipate the Zone Attack.
Also to perform the Zone Attack Flicker requires ZERO knowledge of how to perform the flicker. I would know, I did it for at least a month if not more without knowing how.
The problem is with flicker being widely used, is that its WAYYY to easy to do. Its simply Light Attack followed by Heavy Attack immediately. At the same time you need to have you guard in a different direction as where your zone attack comes out. AKA What half decent Orochi does not have their guard at the top at all times. When they perfrom zone attack, theres your flicker. Having to hold top guard at all times, and the incredibly easy flicker "exploit" allows just about every Orochi to do this.

Stop blamming the "exploiters" when theyre just trying to play the game. Im not going to hinder my experience because of Ubisofts mess up they cant fix.
If you're anticipating, is it really reaction though? I will agree that it probably happens on accident frequently and in that case you're right, it's not their fault. It's the intentional misuse that i take issue with.

UbiNoty
07-06-2017, 12:32 AM
The flicker bug is something that we're currently working on getting fixed. As it was mentioned above I believe, it's not as easy of a fix as you might think since it is somewhat tied into some fundamental game mechanics. But we are aware its a problem and we are working on it, and will do our best to get it resolved as soon as we are able.

Existentialmeme
07-06-2017, 06:01 AM
The flicker bug is something that we're currently working on getting fixed. As it was mentioned above I believe, it's not as easy of a fix as you might think since it is somewhat tied into some fundamental game mechanics. But we are aware its a problem and we are working on it, and will do our best to get it resolved as soon as we are able.

It's really is not though, it's a simple change from zone attack by pressing light and heavy to pressing heavy/light and cancel.

Problem solved, a simple input change.

pancakerz
07-06-2017, 06:51 AM
It is not a "Bug", the flicker is related to the network code and how input works for light and heavy attacks. As far as I remember they said in a Warriors Den that the light attack is a bumper, the heavy attack is a trigger. So if you touch the light attack button it will immediately fire, but the heavy will only fire after a brief period holding the button.
Since zone attacks are fired when pressing both buttons, there is a short duration where the client has to wait for a heavy input if you press light attack. But in a high responsive game they start playing the light attack animation and indicator as soon as the light bumper is detected. If the user then presses heavy in the timeframe for triggering a zone attack it "overwrites" the light attack.

They said, in that Warriors Den where they talked about it, that they are playing around with different methods to "fix" it, but is it not an easy task and they did not know if they can find a solution.

I think this is a major flaw in their engine, but I do not think it is possible to "fix" completely. The only thing they can do is to change the timeframes (for playing light and waiting for heavy input to zone attack). But this is tricky and can totally destroy the responsiveness of the whole game.

I'll fix it right now. totally easy, you ready?
Make zone attacks a single button press. Maybe B button (xbox) on controller since that doesn't really do much. I think it interacts with environment, but it's easy to make it do one thing, and then another context sensitive thing.

ChampionRuby50g
07-06-2017, 07:30 AM
I'll fix it right now. totally easy, you ready?
Make zone attacks a single button press. Maybe B button (xbox) on controller since that doesn't really do much. I think it interacts with environment, but it's easy to make it do one thing, and then another context sensitive thing.

"B button...that doesn't really do much." Maybe you play Conq, but B is a vital part of combat as that's the feint button? I use the B button every single fight I get into.

Existentialmeme
07-06-2017, 07:31 AM
I'll fix it right now. totally easy, you ready?
Make zone attacks a single button press. Maybe B button (xbox) on controller since that doesn't really do much. I think it interacts with environment, but it's easy to make it do one thing, and then another context sensitive thing.

B button is the cancel button... I guess you never feint?


It's really is not though, it's a simple change from zone attack by pressing light and heavy to pressing heavy/light and cancel.

Problem solved, a simple input change.

Chucky_Jones
07-06-2017, 07:59 AM
"B button...that doesn't really do much." Maybe you play Conq, but B is a vital part of combat as that's the feint button? I use the B button every single fight I get into.
Feinting is a vital part of combat but there is no reason the feint button couldn't also be the zone button. It would still be feint when you were performing any attack that could be feinted, and if you aren't in an attack you would throw a zone. That fix would actually be pretty simple.

Existentialmeme
07-06-2017, 08:50 AM
Feinting is a vital part of combat but there is no reason the feint button couldn't also be the zone button. It would still be feint when you were performing any attack that could be feinted, and if you aren't in an attack you would throw a zone. That fix would actually be pretty simple.

A zone attacks take half of your stamina so I would rather it's not a single input move, B with light would be much better, it separates cancel and zone.

Mia.Nora
07-06-2017, 08:58 AM
A zone attacks take half of your stamina so I would rather it's not a single input move, B with light would be much better, it separates cancel and zone.

Wont work.

PeaceKeeper goes into riposte with H into L. Raider goes into Stunning Tap with H into L. Would work for Oroichi but not in general.

Best idea is making it a single button, that environmental interact button is completely useless in my opinion, let people drop the gates with some other button like hold down heavy near the lever. If it wont work just remove environmental interactions altogether, who cares about those gates anyway.

Making it single button is foolproof solution.

Draghmar
07-06-2017, 09:04 AM
A zone attacks take half of your stamina so I would rather it's not a single input move, B with light would be much better, it separates cancel and zone.
Even though I'm not sure if making zone the same as feint button is good idea (don't know if it's bad either) I don't see problem with what you're saying - in theory it is a single move. I think they did it this way because it's an attack so you should use attack buttons to do it. So there's no correlation with stamina cost...What you're suggesting here is that pushing both buttons (doesn't matter if it's pad or mouse) is so much harder then moving one finger to different place (default E on keyboard and B on pad).

Existentialmeme
07-06-2017, 01:33 PM
Even though I'm not sure if making zone the same as feint button is good idea (don't know if it's bad either) I don't see problem with what you're saying - in theory it is a single move. I think they did it this way because it's an attack so you should use attack buttons to do it. So there's no correlation with stamina cost...What you're suggesting here is that pushing both buttons (doesn't matter if it's pad or mouse) is so much harder then moving one finger to different place (default E on keyboard and B on pad).

Sorry, that was really bad wording.
I was trying to say that because zone attacks takes so much stamina, it should not be single input because of the potential of double tapping to try to feint a move.
Making it a double input of light/cancel would prevent accidental zone.
I don't know about keyboard and mouse but on controllers is not hard at all to push cancel and light together.

Existentialmeme
07-06-2017, 01:35 PM
Wont work.

PeaceKeeper goes into riposte with H into L. Raider goes into Stunning Tap with H into L. Would work for Oroichi but not in general.

Best idea is making it a single button, that environmental interact button is completely useless in my opinion, let people drop the gates with some other button like hold down heavy near the lever. If it wont work just remove environmental interactions altogether, who cares about those gates anyway.

Making it single button is foolproof solution.

sorry but I don't understand why heavy into light moves matter in this case? it's a input of light and cancel.
Or heavy and cancel would work too.

Draghmar
07-06-2017, 01:51 PM
Sorry, that was really bad wording.
I was trying to say that because zone attacks takes so much stamina, it should not be single input because of the potential of double tapping to try to feint a move.
Making it a double input of light/cancel would prevent accidental zone.
I don't know about keyboard and mouse but on controllers is not hard at all to push cancel and light together.

Oh, I see. Yeah it could be problem.

Blasto95
07-06-2017, 02:18 PM
Whoa calm down there sparky... I know it's tough hearing someone criticize your main but jeez... That's alright, you don't have to admit that most players do it on purpose, we all know the truth anyway.

I would never put myself through the torture of being an Orochi main. He's only rep 3.

But ya try playing on an Xbox controller or any controller. Its near impossible to not flicker on accident eventually. You would actually have to know how to flicker in order to teach yourself not to.

AnEnticingSquid
07-06-2017, 04:25 PM
I would never put myself through the torture of being an Orochi main. He's only rep 3.

But ya try playing on an Xbox controller or any controller. Its near impossible to not flicker on accident eventually. You would actually have to know how to flicker in order to teach yourself not to.

I do play on Xbox and I also have a pres 3 orochi... And I will concede that you could do it on accident, but when it's multiple times in one fight, I highly doubt it's all accidental...

dragon7jdc
07-07-2017, 01:02 PM
Orochi main here. and yes its not only exclusive to orochi. all heros have it. and the reason its been used so much because orochi has 2 to 3 attacks that is good. but my point is . a flicker is only an issue if you rely too much on the indicators them self. all zone attacks and some other attacks only comes from one direction ( the same). memorize them and you are good to go. wether if the player flickered by mistake or on purpose. you will react to it.

Draghmar
07-07-2017, 01:13 PM
Orochi main here. and yes its not only exclusive to orochi. all heros have it. and the reason its been used so much because orochi has 2 to 3 attacks that is good. but my point is . a flicker is only an issue if you rely too much on the indicators them self. all zone attacks and some other attacks only comes from one direction ( the same). memorize them and you are good to go. wether if the player flickered by mistake or on purpose. you will react to it.
It's not direction that is problem but reacting to the start of the animation. Orochi has quite fast zone. Warden is even faster - at least from my perspective. I almost can't react to Wardens zone. The same goes for Orochi but then again I played much more against Warden for obvious reasons.

dragon7jdc
07-07-2017, 02:11 PM
Thats true some heros have very fast zone attacks. so what i do to counter that is to develope a sense of when they might do a certine attack. ii know it sound hard. but trust me with time you will be able to do it.