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View Full Version : I must learn prop pitch handling in the 109 (aces assist plz)



F19_Ob
06-09-2004, 05:30 AM
Ok...The one thing That do not work well for me flying 109 is using manual proppitch in combat, especially not in furballs.
Level flight and shallow climbs and descents its ok but Proppitch makes me feel a little thick and I'm also a kind of hardhead(learn slowly) so I would really appreciate some more detailed info by U regular proppitchers on following questions.

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0 Is there big difference in pitch use between the 109 variants?

1 Do U pitch in increments on the keyboard or do u have pitch assigned to a slider? And do u use highest and lowest pitch?

2 how to set proppitch and throttle in vertical dives for lets say about 2000m?

3 How do U work and set it in "looping" and "yoyo'ing" horizontal turns and scissoring in combat?

4 In many of my combats I constantly switch from highest speed to slowest quickly to gain shooting opportunities (this is where I fry my engine).
How do U work with pitch in these situations or Do U only BnZ with proppitch?
What is the maximum rpm U use without frying the engine...some seem to go up to 3000rpm??

5 can u switch from high pitch to very low pitch fast without damaging engine?

6 do U always try to maintain 100% power and just change pitch?

7 many claim there is much gain in power and climb speed? I dont seem to acheave that? could anyone describe in steps how U climb fastest and set pitch while speed decreases in the climb....(a track perhaps)?

8 Is there any absolute nono's U want to advice?

9 Any one have any historical reference it was used in combat on 109's ? I have read detailed use of flaps, radiator and elevator trim but never proppitch on manual in combat.
From Finnish accounts I remember they used all functions on auto exept for the radiator wich was fully opened while taxiing and takeoff then on auto for the rest of the flight.

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Many questions.....but I feel I must get on top of this thing too, even if I seem to do well without it.......makes me feel stupid though.(never liked that feeling much)
any explanationattempts is most welcome....hope anyone has the time to explain and that I'm not too thick to understand. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif


As it is now, my enginge is only good for barbeceuing hotdogs http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

[This message was edited by F19_Ob on Wed June 09 2004 at 05:00 AM.]

F19_Ob
06-09-2004, 05:30 AM
Ok...The one thing That do not work well for me flying 109 is using manual proppitch in combat, especially not in furballs.
Level flight and shallow climbs and descents its ok but Proppitch makes me feel a little thick and I'm also a kind of hardhead(learn slowly) so I would really appreciate some more detailed info by U regular proppitchers on following questions.

-----------------------------------------------

0 Is there big difference in pitch use between the 109 variants?

1 Do U pitch in increments on the keyboard or do u have pitch assigned to a slider? And do u use highest and lowest pitch?

2 how to set proppitch and throttle in vertical dives for lets say about 2000m?

3 How do U work and set it in "looping" and "yoyo'ing" horizontal turns and scissoring in combat?

4 In many of my combats I constantly switch from highest speed to slowest quickly to gain shooting opportunities (this is where I fry my engine).
How do U work with pitch in these situations or Do U only BnZ with proppitch?
What is the maximum rpm U use without frying the engine...some seem to go up to 3000rpm??

5 can u switch from high pitch to very low pitch fast without damaging engine?

6 do U always try to maintain 100% power and just change pitch?

7 many claim there is much gain in power and climb speed? I dont seem to acheave that? could anyone describe in steps how U climb fastest and set pitch while speed decreases in the climb....(a track perhaps)?

8 Is there any absolute nono's U want to advice?

9 Any one have any historical reference it was used in combat on 109's ? I have read detailed use of flaps, radiator and elevator trim but never proppitch on manual in combat.
From Finnish accounts I remember they used all functions on auto exept for the radiator wich was fully opened while taxiing and takeoff then on auto for the rest of the flight.

-----------------------------------------------

Many questions.....but I feel I must get on top of this thing too, even if I seem to do well without it.......makes me feel stupid though.(never liked that feeling much)
any explanationattempts is most welcome....hope anyone has the time to explain and that I'm not too thick to understand. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif


As it is now, my enginge is only good for barbeceuing hotdogs http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

[This message was edited by F19_Ob on Wed June 09 2004 at 05:00 AM.]

cueceleches
06-09-2004, 05:53 AM
DÔ┬┤oh! I also would like to know...I gave up using manual pitch as I aaaalways managed to cream my engine in the heat of battle...http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

MEGILE
06-09-2004, 08:13 AM
BUMP, very good questions.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Any German aces care to enlighten us?

http://www.2and2.net/Uploads/Images/p51dark.bmp

Peregrine_MI
06-09-2004, 08:31 AM
0 Is there big difference in pitch use between the 109 variants?

Yes, (someone can correct me if I'm wrong) But the emil you would want to stay around 2100rpm, frank 2500 rpm, G,K around 2700 rpm.

1 Do U pitch in increments on the keyboard or do u have pitch assigned to a slider? And do u use highest and lowest pitch?

Keyboard will work, but when I got interested in learning about the 109 pitch I grabbed a old wheel mouse, took out the ball, taped the ball to the desk then put the mouse on the desk (did that so I would'nt be messing with my point of view evertime I changed the pitch)then programmed Pitch to the wheel mouse, to me it seemed a better way of managing the pitch.

Later on I got a x45 and now have it programed to one of the dials.

2 how to set proppitch and throttle in vertical dives for lets say about 2000m?

For me it all depends. If I'm flying a Airquake server most of the time I'll use auto pitch. But If I'm in a server with pits locked I watch the Tach. as long as you don't exceed the rpms listed above you should be ok.

3 How do U work and set it in "looping" and "yoyo'ing" horizontal turns and scissoring in combat?

Best I can recomend is try to keep the Rpm the closest to the rpms listed above, as long as you don't exceed, or drop the rpm to low you should have enough power to keep the speed up.

4 In many of my combats I constantly switch from highest speed to slowest quickly to gain shooting opportunities (this is where I fry my engine).
How do U work with pitch in these situations or Do U only BnZ with proppitch?
What is the maximum rpm U use without frying the engine...some seem to go up to 3000rpm??

Need more info on this, what model 109 do you fly?, are you engaging/disengaging boost (if you're doing that make sure you throttle down below 100%). 3000 rpm (on later model G and K) was possible before the most current patch, but now you'll fry your engine in a matter of seconds.

5 can u switch from high pitch to very low pitch fast without damaging engine?

Going from say 56% prop pitch, to 86+% Prop ptich is a very bad idea.

6 do U always try to maintain 100% power and just change pitch?

That's how I learned it. Keep it simple at first, then add the throttle adjustments into the mix.

7 many claim there is much gain in power and climb speed? I dont seem to acheave that? could anyone describe in steps how U climb fastest and set pitch while speed decreases in the climb....(a track perhaps)?

As and avid Il-2 air racer, I can say that if you're going to use Auto prop-pitch in a 109 race, you will loose. So yes there is a big gain in power. But in a combat situation your engine won't last too long the settings I try to run.

8 Is there any absolute nono's U want to advice?

Well, if you're going to take off using auto prop pitch, atleast set your pitch before takeoff, to something around 50 - 60% that way you won't fry your engine when you turn off auto.

Also just do a private multiplayer server. Keep the pit on watch the tach in flight, it will not stay at a constant rpm you'll always be changing it. Remember its a varible rpm.
Start with level flight once you get use to that, mix it up, with turns, dives, climbs.

Well that's about it hope this helps, BTW always keep the Mustard and Ketchup close by http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

One more thing on one of the two il-2 FB cd's theres info about all of the planes in FB, look for the 109 your trying to fly it will show you the best Economy, Cruise, and Combat RPM setting

Agamemnon22
06-09-2004, 08:42 AM
Well, I don't know if I'm a german ace, but I do use it and there isn't all that much to it.
I have it mapped to a wheel on my joystick which goes in increments of 5%.

It's almost like driving a car with a manual transmission. When you rev too high, you shift up. If you want to accelerate you downshift. Similarly, if you rev your 109 too high (watch that tach), you'll want to reduce prop pitch. If you need power, increase prop pitch but don't put the tach over 3,000rpm. It's ok if it revs that high once in a while for a split second, but I literally mean split second. When not in combat, like climbing away from the base, I usually sit around 2700-2800rpm. In level flight and in general non-combat situations I just sit at auto pitch, and throttle down to 85 or so. No sense in heating up the motor for nothing. You'll need that heat margin later.

A little complication compared to driving a care: if you keep prop pitch constant and the plane accelerates your rpm's go up. This is because it is easier for the prop to turn in the faster oncoming stream of air. If your altitude increases, rpm's go up as well. The thinner air makes it easier for the prop to turn. But don't worry about this too much when you're flying, just keep an eye on that tach.

I don't know what the aces do, but I sit at autopitch most of the time, unless I need the extra power for an emergency climb or emergency speed. When switching from auto to manual at any signficant speed, be sure to decrease prop pitch by 10-15% right away, otherwise you run the risk of blowing the engine. Once in safe rpm's turn prop pitch back up until desired rpm is reached. You can also increase and decrease prop pitch when in auto, which changes the prop pitch you first get when switching to manual. If you don't touch it, manual will go to 100% and you'll have to react quickly to save your engine.

Er, I guess that's it. A little trick that may or may not blow your engine is reving past 3,000 in a climb or something. Decrease prop pitch as soon as you cross the 3,000rpm mark. There is certain amount of time required for the mechanism to complete the cycle, in that time you'll rev to about 3,500, but because you've already decreased prop pitch, it will quickly come back down to safe rpm. This builds up heat quickly and runs the risk of blowing the engine, so save it for life or death situations.

joeap
06-09-2004, 09:06 AM
All right, two questions, I understand the real 109s from the F series up had "auto-pitch" (which was standard in the 190s). with the Emils, though the props are variable and when I mess with them I simply don't see the text message saying the percent pitch except for 100% or auto...I have to refer to the tachometer but have no idea if my "lever" is at max or whatever. I use keyboards btw.

MEGILE
06-09-2004, 09:22 AM
Good info... could anyone spare 5 mins and put together a quick track of the Manual prop pitch in action?

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.2and2.net/Uploads/Images/p51dark.bmp

HART_dreyer
06-09-2004, 10:46 AM
I find after the patch there is close to zero performance increase by using manual prop pitch so I don't bother with it.

Regards,
dreyer
the dreyer vs. Hartmann game! (http://www.dreyermachine.com/il2/)

Hoarmurath
06-09-2004, 10:51 AM
you want to be an ace? concentrate on your opponent, not on your engine http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://hoarmurath.free.fr/images/sighoar.jpg (http://hoarmurath.free.fr/)

Venom079
06-09-2004, 10:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
you want to be an ace? concentrate on your opponent, not on your engine http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well you can't attack your enemy if your engine is fried, or not getting the "best" performance out of it eah...

ucanfly
06-09-2004, 11:11 AM
With the laater Gustavs and K4 I find I don't really need to worry about prop pitch (keep it at auto), but with Emil I always use it as it is too sluggish on Auto, espeicallly when climbing or accelerating into a turn. You don't want to go above 2700 RPM on Emile and try to keep below 2500 RPM. Getting the most out of the emile is fun, and makes manual prop a necessity. The one downer is that the Desert map is very unkind to the 109 (I got tired of overheat and gliding to earth).

Another tip if using manual prop pitch is used is to be careful when jamming the throttle forward. IN a pinch an overrev can be prevented by lessening throttle first (especially if prop pitch is not on a slider).

DrDave242
06-09-2004, 01:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by joeap:
with the Emils, though the props are variable and when I mess with them I simply don't see the text message saying the percent pitch except for 100% or auto...I have to refer to the tachometer but have no idea if my "lever" is at max or whatever. I use keyboards btw.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If all you're seeing indicaetd is either 100% or Auto, you might be only hitting the key to toggle between Auto and Manual, rather than the keys for increasing and decreasing pitch. Check your control mapping to be sure.

---
There are 10 kinds of people in the world: those who can count in binary, and those who can't.

HL callsign: FruitPieJones
Today is a good day for pie.

georgeo76
06-09-2004, 01:51 PM
Manual pitch reduces pilot workload; take advantage of it.

F19_Ob
06-10-2004, 03:10 AM
Thanks for the efforts and your views...much appreciated.

Im going to try with assigning buttons on the stick and see if it works better.

As it is, it seems that proppitch was optional but the aoutopitch was recommended especially in dives, if I understand the manuals right.
It works for me in the bounce with the recommended switch to auto in dives...but the furball.....I have to work on it.

I suspect most of U already have these manuals for 109 G2 and G6.......no?
http://www.virtualpilots.fi/en/hist/WW2History-Manuals.html

flying the 109 D(article)
http://www.virtualpilots.fi/en/hist/WW2History-109Dtestflight1938.html

Well I'll keep at it as a crazy finn....I'm thinking about asking the interviewing boys at virtualpilots If they could throw in a question on proppitch in combat, next time they interview a 109 pilot or if the can pass it on to anyone they have contact with.

thnx again http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif