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View Full Version : Opinion: Juno's part in the AC Universe has been dragged on for too long



pacmanate
06-18-2017, 07:33 AM
Something that caught my eye more than anything else during the Origins reveal was some side missions called "Juno Events".

Back in 2013, a year after AC3 and letting Juno loose, I would have been really excited.
My thought process would have been along the lines of: "Wow! I can't wait to see what havoc she reaps now that she is free".

However the reality for me now is that she is a drag. Her whole Arc has just been watered down so much. Here is a breakdown:



AC3 in 2012 - Juno gets set loose, her plan is to dominate the world. [At this point I can't wait for the next entry in the series to see what she does to the world]
AC4 in 2013 - Juno doesn't appear until the last section of the game where she is a floating head. Nothing happens here other than her saying she is too weak to have a host. [I felt this was wasted opportunity, you finally see her and it becomes an "Oh, I can't do anything, just gonna blab on for a while".]
AC Unity in 2014 - I can't remember if she even appeared in this to be honest.
AC Rogue in 2014 - Talks more about the human/computer blend, how she wants to guide the human race etc etc. So the same stuff we heard in 2012... [Again, you only find this if you collect a bunch of optional files. So again, she felt shoe horned in.]
AC Syndicate in 2015 - She appears in the WW1 Segments, and just like before, nothing progresses with her. She keeps talking the talk. [More disappointment. Doesn't do anything again. She almost felt shoe horned in here seeing as the WW2 sections were completely optional. You could go the whole game without seeing her.]


So it's 5 years this year since Juno was released, 5 years of her doing absolutely nothing. My question to you guys is, do you care about her Arc anymore? When i saw Juno Events in Origins I just felt a sort of boredom reading it as the 4 game track record hasn't really done her story justice at all.

Opinions on this?

Sushiglutton
06-18-2017, 09:00 AM
Not really a fan of the entire Juno-thing and you are right that it has lost all momentum too. So yeah, I agree pretty much.

jayjay275
06-18-2017, 09:45 AM
Couldn't agree more. Her plan was the only somewhat redeeming part of AC3's end, and now it seems as if her plan has gone disastrously wrong given that she can't even find a host. How can she dominate the world as she proposes when she can't even find a host? Given her arc, I just don't care for it anymore though I suppose she is meant to be the only one in modern day posing a threat. When I read about the Juno Events, I thought that it would replace her presence in modern day and because of that, we might not even get modern day. I mean, memories and sequences have been removed apparently and Bayek is seemingly an ancestor of Desmond? I don't know how Modern Day is going to work anymore. I can't say that Unity messed it up quite a fair bit as well. I'm guessing that Minerva had nothing to worry about after all.

I have one question though: Why did Desmond have to die? Why couldn't his father have touched the pedestal? Then we'd still have Desmond with Shaun and Rebecca.

pacmanate
06-18-2017, 11:05 AM
Couldn't agree more. Her plan was the only somewhat redeeming part of AC3's end, and now it seems as if her plan has gone disastrously wrong given that she can't even find a host. How can she dominate the world as she proposes when she can't even find a host? Given her arc, I just don't care for it anymore though I suppose she is meant to be the only one in modern day posing a threat. When I read about the Juno Events, I thought that it would replace her presence in modern day and because of that, we might not even get modern day. I mean, memories and sequences have been removed apparently and Bayek is seemingly an ancestor of Desmond? I don't know how Modern Day is going to work anymore. I can't say that Unity messed it up quite a fair bit as well. I'm guessing that Minerva had nothing to worry about after all.

I have one question though: Why did Desmond have to die? Why couldn't his father have touched the pedestal? Then we'd still have Desmond with Shaun and Rebecca.

AC3's whole ending scene pretty much was rushed.

Why did Desmond have to die?
Why did Desmond RUSH to touch the pedestal?
Why did he not show any care towards his Dad, Rebecca or Shaun, he never even said Goodbye?
Why did he not at least mention his Mother again, after telling his Dad he wants to see here earlier in the game during an optional Convo?

But back on topic, Ubisoft have dragged this out on purpose for whatever reason. I see Juno's Arc having the same demise as Desmond. People disliked Desmond, they gave him less screen time which in return made him feel even more of a drag because he wasn't interesting. Now Juno's Arc has had a 4 year period of her just doing nothing AND in the past 2 AC games, her presence has been in OPTIONAL files, which shows you how much meaning she has in the Universe.

strigoi1958
06-18-2017, 11:19 AM
I don't like any of the modern day/ 1st Civ... don't stop reading ;)

I know a lot of the story/ lore/MD/ 1st Civ fans believe it is part of the game but it really is not... (keep reading it gets better)

it has always been like advertisements/ commercials that interrupt the game....BUT it is a part of AC and it is a part that is very important to some AC fans. It does not matter if millions don't like it... it is inextricably linked with the game. And regardless of how I feel I will always want it in the game somewhere.

I think Ubi have been putting in easter eggs and audio files/ bits of data and small cut scenes to give MD/ 1st Civ fans something.... perhaps until they can figure out how to move the story forward.

To be honest I do understand peoples obsession with MD/ 1st Civ because although it was just background information and story line that was designed to explain the animus and why we go back in history.... Ubi did such a good job of intriguing people that it got a lot of people curious.... and hooked on finding out information and looking into lore etc... They threw in a few plot twists like Lucy and then built up to the Desmond decision.... unfortunately it was too big to be a small part... it was somethng that should have been a finale to the series.

how could they top that with the next plot twist? Desmonds child dies or the universe gets blown up?

I think it had driven into a dead end, so maybe MD/ 1st Civ has been simmering away in the background and little glimpses have been shown to just let all the MD/ 1st Civ fans know it is not forgotten but they are waiting to re-introduce it in a way that fits in with prior events and hopefully not let it escalate so much this time.

Personally, I have always hoped that MD could have been integrated into the game, maybe by locating pieces of eden in history and following their path through different eras until we find them in the MD and collect them in order to assemble them.... (possibly with Minerva guiding us while Juno guides MD templar/ abstergo agents).

I said it would get better ;)

Sorrosyss
06-18-2017, 12:33 PM
I'm a big Juno fan, so consider me triggered. (just kidding!)

Honestly, as a big Isu and Modern Day fan, its been beyond frustrating to see these elements shifted to the periphery. Depending on whom you believe, the franchise was at one point supposed to end with AC3. But due to staff changes, and most notably using multiple writers - the direction has got muddled. First Juno wants a body by entering the Cipher. Then she wants all humanity in the Grey to feed her power. Then in the last game she wants to walk the earth again.

In part, the short deadlines for the games can't have helped. It is known that there was a playable modern day section cut from Syndicate due to the time restrictions, so the hope is that Origins extra time will allow them to do something more with the Isu and Modern Day elements. The Juno Events sound like it may be flashbacks to the events of the Isu era, and highly likely that we will see the beginnings of the original human rebellion.

In fairness though, in the recent months Ubisoft seems to have shifted on the Modern Day. The Uprising comic has a lot within it, and Juno herself has now appeared within it. The story is starting to move forward towards Origins, and the parallels in its title with the original human uprising can't be coincidental. We know they still have some kind of plan with the Eve story from the recent Azamia AMA, therefore the hope I suppose is that we get the whole echo of Eve's decendant (Charlotte?) leading humanity once more against Juno and the Isu.

I may be over optimistic, but this is my hope for whats coming up. But overall, I agree completely. Its been dragged out far too long, and something needs to happen in this game. I personally believe something will.

jayjay275
06-18-2017, 12:39 PM
AC3's whole ending scene pretty much was rushed.

Why did Desmond have to die?
Why did Desmond RUSH to touch the pedestal?
Why did he not show any care towards his Dad, Rebecca or Shaun, he never even said Goodbye?
Why did he not at least mention his Mother again, after telling his Dad he wants to see here earlier in the game during an optional Convo?

But back on topic, Ubisoft have dragged this out on purpose for whatever reason. I see Juno's Arc having the same demise as Desmond. People disliked Desmond, they gave him less screen time which in return made him feel even more of a drag because he wasn't interesting. Now Juno's Arc has had a 4 year period of her just doing nothing AND in the past 2 AC games, her presence has been in OPTIONAL files, which shows you how much meaning she has in the Universe.

Yep. To kill off Desmond was undoubtedly this series biggest mistake. The whole point of modern day was to train Desmond up to be a highly skilled assassin whilst uncovering the locations of pieces of eden. However, it all amounts to very little. Yes, we kill Vidic but he's not that major of a character in the grand scheme of things - he isn't the Templar leader for example. So really, was there much point in Desmond training to be the most skilled assassin? What I see, and I believe everyone else would see, is that Desmond and his death was just a plot extension device by the time of AC3. As for Juno, it feels like they wanted to set her up to do evil things, but had no idea how they would carry out. She seems strong in the credits scene, then next thing you know, like you said, she is a weak floating head looking for a host. They should do away with Juno somehow, and focus on Templars vs Assassins in the modern day. The First Civ stuff doesn't seem to be working because of Juno and it is making the Modern Day seem very uneventful.

joshoolhorst
06-18-2017, 04:09 PM
I don't care anymore I just want her to die in Origins and reboot the Modern Day or just kill Modern Day if Ubisoft keeps it like this.

-She has been milked dry in this series.
-She has post no threats IN THE GAMES at all
-If you cut out the Modern Day scenes the artefacts or anything related to her after 3 have hardly any purpose at all for example Germain was no Sage I think it would not change major things perhaps Elise dead but I really doubt it.
-She has been optional in Syndicate

I could go on she is one of the biggest wasted potentials I have seen in any kind of media.
I remember the first time I saw her get free and I was really excited where the writers were going with it but she has been nothing more than just a excuse to keep the Modern Day alive for now because nothing happens in the Modern Day that changes the world which I think is one of the biggest weakness of the Modern Day story arc. Even if the writers and Ubisoft decide her to make a big part of the story again they have to stay with one way of storytelling and make people play ALL the games which not every gamer is up to.
Without a good Modern Day the hole Pieces of Eden fall apart and just seems like things that just are placed in the story I mean what was the point of Germain getting the sword for example.
At this point I just skip all her talk and nonsense because the games don't care about their own lore anymore.

There are many ways to describe this and I don't know how to say exactly but she was one of the reasons why I left this franchise years ago.

Xstantin
06-18-2017, 04:30 PM
Agreed. She was set up as the big bad but it seems like writing went nowhere with that. To me the only games where her actions had some impact were only ACB and ACIII and that was years ago.

The whole sense of mystery is gone imo (the silly new name for TWKB doesn't help as well).

joshoolhorst
06-18-2017, 04:35 PM
Agreed. She was set up as the big bad but it seems like writing went nowhere with that. To me the only games where her actions had some impact were only ACB and ACIII and that was years ago.

The whole sense of mystery is gone imo (the silly new name for TWKB doesn't help as well).

funny thing is that in Brotherhood she wasn't even a bad person hell she made (well Desmond says he did it himself like a robot) to kill Lucy I am sure if Juno just told them Lucy would kich their asses and probably throw Desmond of the platform to his death because she can't take him and two other people on at the same time.
So basicly she did more good in Brotherhood than her evil emails in AC3

ModernWaffle
06-18-2017, 04:37 PM
Nah anything related to MD is absolutely worthless now - I think they should just stop beating around the bush and get rid of it entirely.

My reasoning is that even if they revitalise some of the present day stuff in Origins it's not going to last long. If you want to make any type of intricate or compelling storytelling, you've got to be able to end it before it becomes too dragged out and convoluted (with very few exceptions). The AC franchise doesn't look like it's going to end anytime soon so that possibility is gone - it doesn't help that realistically, MD can't take up a significant proportion of any game.

Therefore, even in the best case scenario they do a soft reboot and things get going again, chances are either the the AC series ends when sales aren't good enough and we get no resolution to the present day story or we get to the end of the new MD arc but the payoff is that we get some kind of forced open ending like AC3 so they can keep making more games.

Lose lose situation. No point of raising expectations when you know that the end result will be disappointing. Focus on self-contained stories for the historical sections of each game and leave it at that.

Sigma 1313
06-18-2017, 04:41 PM
I was a fan of Juno. I really wanted to see he Arc after Ac3. I was disappointed by 4's modern day, but was more hopeful after playing Rogue. Maybe we'll work in Unity to stop Juno fro leaving the gray? Then I popped in Unity and... Bishop... I got Syndicate and expected the same thing, was pleasantly surprised by the "better" md and Juno, but not enough to really care about her any more. I just want movement. The current comics are supposed to wrap up her story arc, so I hope that she gets free, takes a body, and enslaves earth, now we have to fight her. Doubt that will happen though...

dxsxhxcx
06-18-2017, 05:36 PM
they'll only be able to put the modern story back on tracks when they end the Juno plot and move (far) away from Desmond's timeline, IMO they had the perfect chance to completely revamp the modern day story in AC3 if they had allowed the world to "end" and a few people survive, a post-apocalyptic world set a few decades after AC3's events IMO would've given them the tools to provide a experience closer to the one we have inside the animus in a modern era, most likely ending a lot of people's complain about the MD.

Now I just want it removed from the game since it lost its appeal and it seems clear as water that they have no intention of putting more effort than they already have into it.

joshoolhorst
06-18-2017, 10:28 PM
Nah anything related to MD is absolutely worthless now - I think they should just stop beating around the bush and get rid of it entirely.

My reasoning is that even if they revitalise some of the present day stuff in Origins it's not going to last long. If you want to make any type of intricate or compelling storytelling, you've got to be able to end it before it becomes too dragged out and convoluted (with very few exceptions). The AC franchise doesn't look like it's going to end anytime soon so that possibility is gone - it doesn't help that realistically, MD can't take up a significant proportion of any game.

Therefore, even in the best case scenario they do a soft reboot and things get going again, chances are either the the AC series ends when sales aren't good enough and we get no resolution to the present day story or we get to the end of the new MD arc but the payoff is that we get some kind of forced open ending like AC3 so they can keep making more games.

Lose lose situation. No point of raising expectations when you know that the end result will be disappointing. Focus on self-contained stories for the historical sections of each game and leave it at that.

I think a Modern Day arc works better if they make more connected story's with the games getting released each two untill three yours with endings which impact the MD World (which it should do and not call it a day!).
Opening new plot lines and not put a deadline on it (COUG 2012 COUGH) I think the yearly release hurted Desmond storyline more than improve it: Lucy Stillman VA left because of her contract for three games so they had to decide to kill her (or new VA for all I care but they probably couldn't put her in AC3 with the big cast they already had) and change the script, Revelations was never ever ever planned from the start beside being a DS title or something like that but AC3 was not done yet so they had to do something in that game to. When Revelations released most people missed out on TLA DLC with Subject 16, the Desmond Miles sections were optional and were some puzle levels which isn't the reason why people buy these games from the start and had to move the story forward because the end was happening.
When AC3 got released a game IMHO needed a year more had hardly any of the mystery Modern Day left beside the Adam and Eve video, the Abstergo satellite and the end of the World story to fix in just 2 hours... With the hole 2012 deadline in mind and advertising AC3 for new players who only bought it for Connor might not have been the best idea.
While the games were still in yearly release it's really hard to keep track with it all for new players so I think everyone sees my point here.

Do I understand what you are saying HELL YEAH! I said it a few times myself on this very forum and to my friends to. But I still believe there is potential in the MD but even if we go back to the roots the expectations are now so high from some of the fans that just walking around isn't going to work anymore it's kinda depressing.

PlunderBunker
06-19-2017, 01:27 AM
Makes me incredibly sad that people don't really like Juno. It's not her fault they haven't done crap with her, that's the writers so if you want to blame someone other than Juno, blame them. They completely left her out of Unity (aside from a few data/text files and the whole deleted dialogue thingy) but that's it. I''m confident they won't just ditch her like that. Yes, it's been 5 years but she's actually starting to do things now (see the Uprising comics for that) and that'll carry on with Origins. They've spent all this time writing, figuring out what to do with her and they've got it nailed down. That's why I'm excited for her to show up in Origins. There is ALOT of potential for her this year. This is the year things start moving (still say the comics end with her fully resurrected or at least the 2nd-to-last issue)

AnthonyA85
06-19-2017, 02:54 AM
While i too agree the whole Juno thing seems to have dragged a bit, if I recall, there's one scene during Syndicate, or Unity, maybe it's Rogue, where they show a clone of her husband they've (Abstergo) got in a tank, so maybe once that clone is strong enough, she'll body-snatch it or something.

PlunderBunker
06-19-2017, 03:08 AM
While i too agree the whole Juno thing seems to have dragged a bit, if I recall, there's one scene during Syndicate, or Unity, maybe it's Rogue, where they show a clone of her husband they've (Abstergo) got in a tank, so maybe once that clone is strong enough, she'll body-snatch it or something.

Nahh they don't need the clones anymore. They've got the shroud now.. Dr Gramatica switched off the machine that kept the clone alive. That was in Syndicate btw. The shroud can recreate an Isu from scratch. I don't even think gramatica knows about juno, he's playing god. And at the right moment, Juno will hyjack a body. It will look like her. Talk like her. It will infact, be her. That's what the comics are doing. We already know their wrapping up the whole phoenix project arc. I'd rather they do that instead of just dragging it on and on throughout the games. Something has to give, and it's this "arc" Then we''ll start a new arc with Juno, back in a physical form starting with Origins :)

AnthonyA85
06-19-2017, 03:39 AM
well, i don't read the AC comics so... :P

PlunderBunker
06-19-2017, 03:44 AM
Ahh ... :P You should :) They're pretty good if you're into modern/present day more :) But anyway, really looking forward to Juno's return. It's been a long time coming. It's gonna be a moment to remember when we see her in the flesh, like properly in the flesh. She'll be this all-powerful force of nature that's not to be messed with.

altair-enzio
06-19-2017, 09:13 AM
Something that caught my eye more than anything else during the Origins reveal was some side missions called "Juno Events".

Back in 2013, a year after AC3 and letting Juno loose, I would have been really excited.
My thought process would have been along the lines of: "Wow! I can't wait to see what havoc she reaps now that she is free".

However the reality for me now is that she is a drag. Her whole Arc has just been watered down so much. Here is a breakdown:



AC3 in 2012 - Juno gets set loose, her plan is to dominate the world. [At this point I can't wait for the next entry in the series to see what she does to the world]
AC4 in 2013 - Juno doesn't appear until the last section of the game where she is a floating head. Nothing happens here other than her saying she is too weak to have a host. [I felt this was wasted opportunity, you finally see her and it becomes an "Oh, I can't do anything, just gonna blab on for a while".]
AC Unity in 2014 - I can't remember if she even appeared in this to be honest.
AC Rogue in 2014 - Talks more about the human/computer blend, how she wants to guide the human race etc etc. So the same stuff we heard in 2012... [Again, you only find this if you collect a bunch of optional files. So again, she felt shoe horned in.]
AC Syndicate in 2015 - She appears in the WW1 Segments, and just like before, nothing progresses with her. She keeps talking the talk. [More disappointment. Doesn't do anything again. She almost felt shoe horned in here seeing as the WW2 sections were completely optional. You could go the whole game without seeing her.]


So it's 5 years this year since Juno was released, 5 years of her doing absolutely nothing. My question to you guys is, do you care about her Arc anymore? When i saw Juno Events in Origins I just felt a sort of boredom reading it as the 4 game track record hasn't really done her story justice at all.

Opinions on this?



Good observation there in regards to Juno, not only that, when will Ubisoft start to bring some closure on the Eve Character as well, that is another thing that is also missed in the series, sure we sore it with Aveline, an the possible of the female interest in Syndicate.

We really need the modern day back, I'd love it with Desmond's Son, it help sell AC 1-3 big time, once black flag, rogue came in, there was some modern day, it really dumbed it down, where with Desmond in AC 1-3 had more character & personality.
By the time Unity & Syndicate came in, it murdered modern day, an tried to use the rift as the new AC addiction, which made it pretty crap, something like that could've been introduced at the end of the game as a type of spoiler.

Here's another Interesting thought, in regards to Juno's Spouse mentioned in the Game, is it possible that Aita or the Sage is the Eve, cause if you look at the latest & even unity, its like the Sage is trying to Undo Juno's Plans?

Xangr8
06-19-2017, 10:00 AM
Something that caught my eye more than anything else during the Origins reveal was some side missions called "Juno Events".

Back in 2013, a year after AC3 and letting Juno loose, I would have been really excited.
My thought process would have been along the lines of: "Wow! I can't wait to see what havoc she reaps now that she is free".

However the reality for me now is that she is a drag. Her whole Arc has just been watered down so much. Here is a breakdown:



AC3 in 2012 - Juno gets set loose, her plan is to dominate the world. [At this point I can't wait for the next entry in the series to see what she does to the world]
AC4 in 2013 - Juno doesn't appear until the last section of the game where she is a floating head. Nothing happens here other than her saying she is too weak to have a host. [I felt this was wasted opportunity, you finally see her and it becomes an "Oh, I can't do anything, just gonna blab on for a while".]
AC Unity in 2014 - I can't remember if she even appeared in this to be honest.
AC Rogue in 2014 - Talks more about the human/computer blend, how she wants to guide the human race etc etc. So the same stuff we heard in 2012... [Again, you only find this if you collect a bunch of optional files. So again, she felt shoe horned in.]
AC Syndicate in 2015 - She appears in the WW1 Segments, and just like before, nothing progresses with her. She keeps talking the talk. [More disappointment. Doesn't do anything again. She almost felt shoe horned in here seeing as the WW2 sections were completely optional. You could go the whole game without seeing her.]


So it's 5 years this year since Juno was released, 5 years of her doing absolutely nothing. My question to you guys is, do you care about her Arc anymore? When i saw Juno Events in Origins I just felt a sort of boredom reading it as the 4 game track record hasn't really done her story justice at all.

Opinions on this?

I can't say I entirely agree with your opinion on this. In fact, I feel that they've been building up all this mystery around her plans and her cult for a huge crescendo in Origins. We've seen how her cult followers are madly bound to her and are willing to do anything for her. Heck, even Dezzy's son is an Instrument. At the face value, it might seem has Juno hasn't been doing much for the past 5 years but she has been expanding her network and has infiltrated both, the Assassins and the Templars with her Instruments and has far reaching influence, with most members in either Orders unaware of the existence of such a massive cult.

Also, I don't think anyone should expect much from Juno's final plan which could be life changing for all the humans, since the franchise is seemingly grounded in reality, that's why they didn't go down the route of blowing up earth with the solar flare since they knew that's not what would happen in real life and would've been inconsistent with the real-world real-time modern day story that the writers are trying to tell.

VoldR
06-19-2017, 10:51 AM
Why Desmond?
Their excuse is him having high count of precursor DNA to activate the device.
"Precursor Potential " (Star Control 3)

As for Junp, I just finally got all the audio logs of Syndicate and uploaded it to the timeline. Seems it all went like this

AC3 - She's free
AC4 - Her BF died while trying to bring a host to her, not sure what she actually said either she's too weak or the host is.

Which leads them to needing to find or create a precursor host.

AC:U - searched for DNA sample of a Sage from various sources.

AC:S - seeks the Shroud to help regenerate the gathered DNA to create a proper sample to clone a new body.

Not sure why Abstergo is doing this if they're against Juno who seeks the same.

Are they oblivious to her presence?
Other then Sigma team...

That's all I manage to gather so far, the audio logs are funny. So eager to continue with the "experiment"

:)

strigoi1958
06-19-2017, 11:43 AM
Not sure why Abstergo is doing this if they're against Juno who seeks the same.


Although 1st Civ/ MD doesn't interest me, I can think of a few possible reasons....

Perhaps to make sure nobody else finds it... so she cannot be regenerated.
Perhaps they have a way of controlling her once regenerated.
Perhaps they seek an alliance.
Perhaps they will give her what she wants in exchange for something they want.
Perhaps they have realised that she cannot be destroyed in her current form but in human form she can be.... so they plan to betray her...

I'm sure there are many others.

PlunderBunker
06-19-2017, 11:57 AM
Although 1st Civ/ MD doesn't interest me, I can think of a few possible reasons....

Perhaps to make sure nobody else finds it... so she cannot be regenerated.
Perhaps they have a way of controlling her once regenerated.
Perhaps they seek an alliance.
Perhaps they will give her what she wants in exchange for something they want.
Perhaps they have realised that she cannot be destroyed in her current form but in human form she can be.... so they plan to betray her...

I'm sure there are many others.

Or none of the above ... someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Templars actually know about Juno. I remember someone mentioning it somewhere in one of the games. Actually, some do like Otso Berg (who just shrugs it off, like the juno naysayers I suppose) etc but I don't think Dr Gramatica knows. She's just using them to get what she wants, and that's a brand new body. Some of the assassins and the templars have decided to go rouge and betray their orders and join the 3rd faction, which is of course as we know, The Instruments of The First Will aka Juno's cult.

VoldR
06-19-2017, 01:01 PM
Or none of the above ... someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Templars actually know about Juno. I remember someone mentioning it somewhere in one of the games. Actually, some do like Otso Berg (who just shrugs it off, like the juno naysayers I suppose) etc but I don't think Dr Gramatica knows. She's just using them to get what she wants, and that's a brand new body. Some of the assassins and the templars have decided to go rouge and betray their orders and join the 3rd faction, which is of course as we know, The Instruments of The First Will aka Juno's cult.

Well in the audio logs, Berg? Is that the Sigma leader?
Seems well aware of her.

As he specifically asked the AI to tell him everything she knows of Juno.

harsab
06-19-2017, 01:53 PM
As much as i agree that they are dragging Juno's part i can't help but feel excited about it at the same time. The First Civ/MD is what holds the franchise together imo. I can't wait to explore the isu era. Maybe have some glimpses of how their world looked like in origins. There's so much to explore & do with the First Civ, the possibilities are endless.

cawatrooper9
06-19-2017, 02:26 PM
So, this is all purely speculative (nothing I saw or heard at E3 outside of public demos and trailers confirms or leads me to believe this) but I think it's pretty clear that Egyptian mythology will play a pretty big part in this game- just look at that big snake at the end of the trailer!

Now, also purely speculative (trust me, I'd love to be cool enough to know about this) but there were rumors floating around last year about the possibility of a trilogy, starting with what then was called AC Empire (now Origins) in an Egypt game, followed by a game in Greece then Rome.

If the above is all true, and we're set to get a trilogy of games with an emphasis on Ancient Mediterranean mythology, when better time to wrap up Juno's plans than a game set in Ancient Rome?
Of course, I'd expect some pretty major developments in Origins and the Greece game, too, but I think that the Rome game could really finally finish this arc in the series.

Samurai587
06-19-2017, 03:02 PM
She really hasn't had much of a role in the games except cinematics and cutscenes. Her role has never been expanded where she becomes a major focus on the story so much, sure in AC3 she had a role but it wasn't really well written. I would be interested in exploring the link between Ancient Rome and the First Civilisation.

Because ironically while AC has taken Adam and Eve from the Biblical sense, the Gods, Jupiter, Minerva, Juno are all ROMAN. Could the Romans be the descendent of the First Civilisation? How is it that the Romans could remember these Gods when humanity was wiped out? I'd like to see the link here.

wvstolzing
06-19-2017, 03:41 PM
Because ironically while AC has taken Adam and Eve from the Biblical sense, the Gods, Jupiter, Minerva, Juno are all ROMAN. Could the Romans be the descendent of the First Civilisation? How is it that the Romans could remember these Gods when humanity was wiped out? I'd like to see the link here.

Those are Roman names for the deities; but what's going on in AC is a variation of 'euhemerism' (wikip (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euhemerism)., colavito article (http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/another-lying-ancient-text-the-case-of-the-other-atlantis)). 'Euhemerism' is a matter of trying to interpret the myths and gods of ancient peoples in terms of the vaguely transmitted deeds of actual people (kings, heroes, et al.) in the archaic past. Such interpretations have a long history, and are extremely popular among the alternative history/Atlantis/'ancient aliens' crowds.

By AC2, it's pretty well established that in the AC universe, not just the Greco-Roman, but pretty much all of ancient mythology and religion is based on the primitive human interpretation of the 'Isu' as gods, accounts of their deeds as legends, etc.

The 'syncretic' identification of the gods of the Greeks and the Romans is a well known fact -- and it's not just because the Romans wanted to match their gods with the more established culture of the Greeks. To some extent those deities have their roots in a shared indo-european linguistic pool; so there really is some 'kinship' between not just (for example) the Roman Jupiter and the Greek Zeus, but the Nordic Odin/Wotan as well. Similarly for Juno / Hera / Fricka.

-- but the Greeks and the Romans 'syncretically' identified some of their deities with Egyptian gods as well. One example is Thoth / Mercury / Hermes, which I expect will have some role to play in this game, because Thoth is a pretty popular (?) Egyptian deity among people that fabricate Atlantis theories.

Also, in AC2, Minerva (who would be the Greek Athena) acknowledges their earlier, Etruscan names (Merva, Tinia, etc.) Etruscans weren't an indo-european culture, but their culture greatly influenced, and gradually got assimilated into, the Roman culture.

(By the way, in mythology, Juno's supposed to be Jupiter's wife, of course; but Juno's husband in AC is 'Aita', who's supposed to be the Etruscan equivalent of Hades / Pluto.)

harsab
06-19-2017, 03:42 PM
She really hasn't had much of a role in the games except cinematics and cutscenes. Her role has never been expanded where she becomes a major focus on the story so much, sure in AC3 she had a role but it wasn't really well written. I would be interested in exploring the link between Ancient Rome and the First Civilisation.

Because ironically while AC has taken Adam and Eve from the Biblical sense, the Gods, Jupiter, Minerva, Juno are all ROMAN. Could the Romans be the descendent of the First Civilisation? How is it that the Romans could remember these Gods when humanity was wiped out? I'd like to see the link here.

hmm well then if the leaks are true a trilogy taking place in Ancient Rome & Greece definitely makes sense. So that means Juno/First Civ could have a bigger role then we think in this whole new ''arc''. Hmmmmmmm.

cawatrooper9
06-19-2017, 03:48 PM
Those are Roman names for the deities; but what's going on in AC is a variation of 'euhemerism' (wikip (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euhemerism)., colavito article (http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog/another-lying-ancient-text-the-case-of-the-other-atlantis)). 'Euhemerism' is a matter of trying to interpret the myths and gods of ancient peoples in terms of the vaguely transmitted deeds of actual people (kings, heroes, et al.) in the archaic past. Such interpretations have a long history, and are extremely popular among the alternative history/Atlantis/'ancient aliens' crowds.

By AC2, it's pretty well established that in the AC universe, not just the Greco-Roman, but pretty much all of ancient mythology and religion is based on the primitive human interpretation of the 'Isu' as gods, accounts of their deeds as legends, etc.

The 'syncretic' identification of the gods of the Greeks and the Romans is a well known fact -- and it's not just because the Romans wanted to match their gods with the more established culture of the Greeks. To some extent those deities have their roots in a shared indo-european linguistic pool; so there really is some 'kinship' between not just (for example) the Roman Jupiter and the Greek Zeus, but the Nordic Odin/Wotan as well. Similarly for Juno / Hera / Fricka.

-- but the Greeks and the Romans 'syncretically' identified some of their deities with Egyptian gods as well. One example is Thoth / Mercury / Hermes, which I expect will have some role to play in this game, because Thoth is a pretty popular (?) Egyptian deity among people that fabricate Atlantis theories.

Also, in AC2, Minerva (who would be the Greek Athena) acknowledges their earlier, Etruscan names (Merva, Tinia, etc.) Etruscans weren't an indo-european culture, but their culture greatly influenced, and gradually got assimilated into, the Roman culture.

(By the way, in mythology, Juno's supposed to be Jupiter's wife, of course; but Juno's husband in AC is 'Aita', who's supposed to be the Etruscan equivalent of Hades / Pluto.)

Yeah, I wonder if the Egyptian deities are going to just be that culture's interpretation of TWCB that we already know in this lore- for instance, if Isis/Iset is going to just be an interpretation of Juno.

wvstolzing
06-19-2017, 03:58 PM
Yeah, I wonder if the Egyptian deities are going to just be that culture's interpretation of TWCB that we already know in this lore- for instance, if Isis/Iset is going to just be an interpretation of Juno.

I think that's pretty much a given.

cawatrooper9
06-19-2017, 04:27 PM
I think that's pretty much a given.

I certainly hope so, at least. Opening the floor to everything else could get really messy.

Bastiaen
06-19-2017, 06:24 PM
While I think that Ubisoft has done a horrible job with addressing the Juno narrative since AC3, I don't think that the solution to that problem is abandoning the story line.

Take for example ACU. I love ACU, but my biggest complaint is with the MD. I think that we can mostly unanimously agree that decreasing the emphasis on MD did no favors to Unity's story and in fact, made the game have less impact on the overall story of the series.

It seems almost like the gist of this thread is that many of you want Ubi to continue with the direction of Unity by either decreasing the importance of MD, or by removing it entirely. That is a no win situation. I understand that there are those who hate MD only because it pulls them out of the ancestral story, however, I strongly disagree with that position, as MD has been central to the story of the series since AC1.

The perspective I've mostly seen in this thread is this: Ubi has done a poor job with MD since AC3, specifically with the Juno narrative, becoming incredibly unsatisfying and never tying up loose ends, and so MD should be removed and each game should become standalone. How is that valid? How would abandoning MD help to resolve the loose ends and wrap up the modern day narratives?

I worry, because for the last few games, I have observed that Ubi listens very closely to these forums. Almost every feature we got in ACU was the result of a request on these forums, and it resulted in the game being over ambitious, rushed and buggy. If they listen enough to put in the minimal effort to provide an animus disguise system (a feature requested by the fans here on these forums, though not in the way we got it), how much more eager will they be to cut MD when that requires almost no effort. Then after they do that, we'll all be right back here complaining about them removing MD, or about putting so very little effort into it.

We need to be very careful what we ask for, because we just might get it, but likely not in the way we asked for it.

cawatrooper9
06-19-2017, 07:27 PM
Totally agreed with Bast on the dangers of reducing MD.

In general, MD helps for various games to really stand out (as long as its done well). AC1, AC2, and AC3 all take place in unique and fun settings, but the MD/POE storylines are almost just as iconic as the main historical segments. And, partially as a result, those games stand out in the series far more than I think Syndicate or Unity ever will.

For example, the Apple of Eden arc in AC2/Brotherhood is absolutely iconic. A few years from now, many fans will probably be hard pressed to even remember what the POE in Unity or Syndicate even is.

Some games can manage to surpass this(Black Flag, I think, manages to remain very memorable despite a rather lackluster Modern Day/POE storyline) but I'd say they're the exception rather than the rule.

pacmanate
06-19-2017, 07:35 PM
So, this is all purely speculative (nothing I saw or heard at E3 outside of public demos and trailers confirms or leads me to believe this) but I think it's pretty clear that Egyptian mythology will play a pretty big part in this game- just look at that big snake at the end of the trailer!

Now, also purely speculative (trust me, I'd love to be cool enough to know about this) but there were rumors floating around last year about the possibility of a trilogy, starting with what then was called AC Empire (now Origins) in an Egypt game, followed by a game in Greece then Rome.

If the above is all true, and we're set to get a trilogy of games with an emphasis on Ancient Mediterranean mythology, when better time to wrap up Juno's plans than a game set in Ancient Rome?
Of course, I'd expect some pretty major developments in Origins and the Greece game, too, but I think that the Rome game could really finally finish this arc in the series.


I have no problem with Junos Arc story Arc, but more for how little it's progressed. The MD is something that hooked me onto Assassin's Creed. Just wanted to state that before I say the following.

The Assassin's Creed Modern Day story has, for the most part, been about saving the world/freeing Juno. That is why I feel that for this to be central to the MD story, why has it been dragged on in the worst way.

I wouldn't have minded so much (probably) if she was doing big things each game. Sure it would still be sort of a drag waiting 4/5 years to see what she ACTUALLY will do.

I guess it's more of a "too much talk, not enough action" for me?

Also that massive snake I have a feeling will be based on some loony drugs. Like what Connor had in AC3 ToKW.

RVSage
06-19-2017, 07:37 PM
personally I feel it was not "dragged" as such, but it never took off , or started. It was an idea started with AC3 ending , and setup well in AC4, but since then it never took off, it has been teased, but it never took off

cawatrooper9
06-19-2017, 08:28 PM
To be honest, the more I think about this, the more I think maybe we're just being impatient and the Juno thing is actually fine.

Through ACIII, the goal was always to save the world from X Threat as Desmond. And we did that, but had to die and release Juno at the same time (an almost Whedon-esque twist).

So, in Juno's first significant appearance in game, we see her scheming in Black Flag. It's almost kind of a Sorcerer's Stone kind of vibe, and I've honestly always enjoyed it. 2014's games did very little regarding her, and honestly I wouldn't have minded if she hadn't been referenced at all- she is lying low, after all. But, at least she wasn't in the main story, really. To be honest, I don't think we needed a sage, either.

Then Syndicate came around. It would've been fine to have her mostly out of the game in that as well- her appearance in the rift segment was just... not that great. Just kind of reiterated things fans already knew.

But... the implications made at the end of Syndicate were huge. That definitely implies that the story is moving forward.

So, to recap:

ACIII- Released in end (not a terrible twist)
ACIV- See her actively scheming/ working with sage (I personally reallly enjoyed this treatment)
2014 Games: Mostly not present, referenced in databases (boring, but kinda lying low)
Syndicate: Brief appearances in game (bad) but strong implication of return soon at end (good!)

After AC3, that's 4 games- one where she was handled really well, two where she was mostly ignored, and one where she was generally ignored but showed some promise in the end. I'll take that.


Just to clarify, while I do like the slow burn with the Juno storyline (wouldn't be able to be a Game of Thrones fan if I couldn't love that slow roast) I do think that there have been some issues with the MD storyline. Both Black Flag and Rogue have suffered from what I refer to as the Dead Man's Chest (after the Pirates movie) syndrome- the fact that they weren't terrible on their own, but set up implied storylines that never really went anywhere, and in reflection make themselves look all the worse for trying. Unity did, in my opinion, almost nothing- and is therefore, the worst of all these. Syndicate's MD was actually mostly fine, in my opinion. Playable MD would be great, but the cutscenes actually did move the story forward quite a bit, loathe as so many people seem to admit it.

VoldR
06-20-2017, 07:06 AM
After listening to the logs
I wonder if the animus person now is that 10 yrs old kid sage they mentioned who had lots of connections far in the past.

I'm unfamiliar with some of the era/ places they mentioned.

PlunderBunker
06-20-2017, 07:39 AM
After listening to the logs
I wonder if the animus person now is that 10 yrs old kid sage they mentioned who had lots of connections far in the past.

I'm unfamiliar with some of the era/ places they mentioned.

He is, except he's older now (obviously) The Instruments have him and he seems quite happy where he is now. I think Aita is taking over or just about too. I really do recommend reading the Uprising comics :)

VoldR
06-21-2017, 04:24 AM
He is, except he's older now (obviously) The Instruments have him and he seems quite happy where he is now. I think Aita is taking over or just about too. I really do recommend reading the Uprising comics :)

Is it available digitally?

I-Like-Pie45
06-21-2017, 04:37 AM
Is it available digitally?

Comixology.com.

Elder-Kalakta
06-21-2017, 07:00 PM
The amount of "let's get rid of Modern Day, First Civ and Juno" posts are kind of depressing. No offence but I hope Ubisoft never does that because those parts of Assassin's Creed are most interesting to me and we've had those themes since the very first game. Without those it's no longer Assassin's Creed and just a random historical game with no unique elements that make AC what it is. You might as well go and play Chivarly: Medieval Warfare if you want that historical setting without Animus disruptions.

What they need to do is improve on what they got instead of abandon it. I agree that they do take long with some story developments and we get impatient while waiting for the next scrap of story and lore development in the next game.

Which is why they release these other media like the comics in order to get the story flowing in-between games and keep us entertained. These current comics are kind of like what Initiates used to be, but better. It gives us a more detailed glimpse into what's happening in the modern day.

The thing is, they can't do much in the modern day because a lot of the focus is on the historical setting. So either they have to resort to other media or simply make the historical segments even shorter in order to make more time for the modern day. They know how much a lot of people love the history so they keep it as the main focus but are thankfully also fair enough to keep the modern day and Isu in it for those fans who like them as well.

So why be unfair and get rid of those?

joshoolhorst
06-21-2017, 07:46 PM
The amount of "let's get rid of Modern Day, First Civ and Juno" posts are kind of depressing. No offence but I hope Ubisoft never does that because those parts of Assassin's Creed are most interesting to me and we've had those themes since the very first game. Without those it's no longer Assassin's Creed and just a random historical game with no unique elements that make AC what it is. You might as well go and play Chivarly: Medieval Warfare if you want that historical setting without Animus disruptions.

What they need to do is improve on what they got instead of abandon it. I agree that they do take long with some story developments and we get impatient while waiting for the next scrap of story and lore development in the next game.

Which is why they release these other media like the comics in order to get the story flowing in-between games and keep us entertained. These current comics are kind of like what Initiates used to be, but better. It gives us a more detailed glimpse into what's happening in the modern day.

The thing is, they can't do much in the modern day because a lot of the focus is on the historical setting. So either they have to resort to other media or simply make the historical segments even shorter in order to make more time for the modern day. They know how much a lot of people love the history so they keep it as the main focus but are thankfully also fair enough to keep the modern day and Isu in it for those fans who like them as well.

So why be unfair and get rid of those?

Sorry but I did not fully read your post because I am to tired but I still think I can answer your post.
The reason why "let's get rid of Modern Day, First Civ and Juno" on this particular forum is quite simple... We care about it and Ubisoft has shown no interest to improve it and perhaps never will. Outside the forum everyone hates it sure oke but we like it but how did we get so far to actual get this angry on the modern day?
Desmond dead was rushed and was basicly build up to which let nowhere, Juno got free and went nowhere.
In Blag Flag the Animus got replaced with Helix a device I have seen nobody likes and is a easy writing style to have less Modern Day and dodge all the set up rules for the universe by making AC a video game product in the AC world which perhaps should say something how ''secret'' this war is if Abstergo edit the crap out of it but still people outside Abstergo know that it's edited.
Interesting things since that day started happening outside the games like Galina's story which was really interested at the time and people made theory's on her but NOPE wasn't really that important to.
Now we come to Unity and Rogue: Unity made the Modern Day a bunch of ****ty CGI scenes made in lifeless, cold, heartless chamber with characters nobody cared about. The plot goes nowhere again with now budget getting saved on it and new fans having no clue what it is because the explanation is so bad that they just want to skip it (which changes the story hardly anything).
Rogue got you out of the Animus/helix thing with a woman calling you out on all kind of names (insults) with data pads with info we already know with a Temple of the Isu which isn't even explained and for such an advanced race they couldn't even make a decent design to protect that weird ''ball with spikes'' on the pedestal to prevent earthquakes. Otso and Violet only started appearing in comics and with hardly annyone playing Rogue they didn't knew who they were in Syndicate.
Syndicates Modern Day did progress the story a little bit but was mostly just fans service with easter eggs in it and old characters and a comic crossover AKA Galina... They get all beaten up and one of dear Assassin's get shot:(
Juno has started to get more less relevant to the story and is now optional and we are at a point of just stopping making theory's because those are way better than the actual Modern Day in the game.
It doesn't help that in a interview of Loomer with the writer of Syndicate the writer calls the lore a mess and doesn't really care that much either. It doesn't help that the comics are now closing game storylines which makes me wonder how are they gonna end it for comic readers in a good way without ruinning story aspects. The movie had canon issues, the last descendants did more than the games do and you know what I rather have something I love DIE instead it get's worse with each installment getting released. Most people don't read the extended universe to.

Rugterwyper32
06-21-2017, 08:31 PM
I'll just put my perspective as someone who isn't a fan of modern day and only likes the animus as a framing device (easily the best aspect of modern day, if you ask me).

See, one of the major issues that this side of the storyline suffers is the reliance on transmedia. If you follow the Marvel Cinematic Universe, for instance, I'm pretty sure you could check out the movies on their own and not bother with any of the TV shows surrounding it. Agents of SHIELD and the such add to it, but it doesn't feel necessary to keep up with that world. With this series though?

Well, we saw what it did with AC3. You had Cross, who I was only aware of because the forums brought him up around the time but beyond that I had no clue what we were dealing with. The game gave me nothing on that end, I didn't understand who it was and I couldn't even bother to care. You have all these plotlines going about mixed between all the other media and frankly, it makes it even harder for me to even care about what's going on in Modern Day, I just want a cohesive standalone story in the historical part with less modern day each time. I'm already not a fan of it and it bugs me every time something has to happen there, but at this point I want them to either just put it all on the game and give me some sort of option to skip it, or just take it out of the games and stick to other media only. Because the way they've been handling it doesn't make it any favors in my eyes. I don't care about Juno's plan starting to be dealt with in other media because I'm just not interested in it, they need to be kept separate enough so they supplement each other rather than rely on each other.

As it stands, I'm happy with the AC Unity approach, but I don't even mind AC4's (I did like the corporate espionage aspect of sorts it had). Just give me the animus to frame the action. My favorite part of it is how it explains the game-ness of the systems and it adds cool elements like the Database in a more natural way. But they need to start sticking to one thing. Either all the actual modern storyline aspects are moved to other media, or they finally learn to start keeping a cohesive storyline in the games that's only supplemented by other media but doesn't need you to know what's going on there to care.

cawatrooper9
06-21-2017, 09:32 PM
Yeah, I've been saying for a while that transmedia if great when it supplements a franchise, but harmful when it becomes too necessary. Transmedia should be a little reward for hardcore fans, not a penalty for more casuals.

pacmanate
06-21-2017, 10:48 PM
Transmedia killed Modern Day.

AC has such good lore that's just spread over too many things.

I love the Modern Day, but I would be lying if I said I don't understand why people hate it. At the end of the day, it's Ubisoft's Job to make us love the Modern Day Storyline/Modern Day Protagonist. They went the wrong way with Desmond by never progressing his character and giving him a backseat which made him more annoying to a lot of people cause he became more of a liability on the flow of the games.

But back on topic, the whole MD Arc has been centered around Juno and the lack of her story progression over the past 4 years just hurts what I feel in love with the franchise for.

dxsxhxcx
06-22-2017, 12:20 AM
Ubisoft biggest mistake was not introducing a new center figure right after Desmond's death in AC3, we had S16's message from the Miracle in Brotherhood that started the whole Desmond' son talk and Juno's final speech at the end "The final journey commences. There is one who would accompany you through the gate. She lies not within our sight. The cross darkens the horizon." but they were completely neglected in the next games, Revelations should've shed a little more light into that so once Desmond died in AC3, the team (William, Shaun and Rebecca) would've know what to do next (find this woman) and the games would revolve around that and Juno, without a center figure (a.k.a proper MD protagonist), past and present felt disconnected.

Sorrosyss
06-22-2017, 12:22 AM
Mmm. See I take the opposite view. I'd rather they have transmedia and keep the story going. Two years between releases is a long time to have no new narratives for a franchise. If you look at just about every other major IP out there, you'll find TV series, comics and books all over the place.

The question is how optional do you make it? Take the Uprising comic. Its purpose is to conclude the Phoenix Project. If that in turn ends up with us seeing Juno given a body, do casual fans really need to have that dragged out within the game too? People have complained that Juno has done nothing already, but if she is suddenly back straight away as a tangible person in the next game then you have genuine progression. How she came to be back... well its there in the comics if you want to read it. I'd be more than happy with this approach. It would give casuals and hardcore fans both the essential and the nuanced story progression that each group wants.

I guess we'll see, but as the primary antagonist the Modern Day cannot come back without her presence fully felt in my view.

strigoi1958
06-22-2017, 12:30 PM
The amount of "let's get rid of Modern Day, First Civ and Juno" posts are kind of depressing. No offence but I hope Ubisoft never does that because those parts of Assassin's Creed are most interesting to me and we've had those themes since the very first game. Without those it's no longer Assassin's Creed and just a random historical game with no unique elements that make AC what it is. You might as well go and play Chivarly: Medieval Warfare if you want that historical setting without Animus disruptions.

What they need to do is improve on what they got instead of abandon it. I agree that they do take long with some story developments and we get impatient while waiting for the next scrap of story and lore development in the next game.

Which is why they release these other media like the comics in order to get the story flowing in-between games and keep us entertained. These current comics are kind of like what Initiates used to be, but better. It gives us a more detailed glimpse into what's happening in the modern day.

The thing is, they can't do much in the modern day because a lot of the focus is on the historical setting. So either they have to resort to other media or simply make the historical segments even shorter in order to make more time for the modern day. They know how much a lot of people love the history so they keep it as the main focus but are thankfully also fair enough to keep the modern day and Isu in it for those fans who like them as well.

So why be unfair and get rid of those?

I think you may have highlighted the problem that exists with 1st Civ/ MD when you wrote "Animus disruptions"

To be honest that is exactly how I see 1st Civ/ MD. A constant interruption to the game. Now as incredibly annoying as the interruptions are, I have no problem with 1st Civ/ MD, I simply have a problem with the way they are implemented into the game at the moment. I am not sure whether lore/ MD/ 1st Civ fans ever think about the impact this has for gamers like myself. I think MD/ 1st Civ should always be in AC because AC doesn't exist without it... but I still believe that it should be done in a way that does not spoil the game as it has in the past ( I hope you can understand that ).

I'm sure this can be done in many ways, as I have suggested previously, by incorporating it into the game. But it could be brought back by having data points in the game (like a cut scene that can be accessed for more story or skipped to continue the game) or by having a long story line after each game has ended.... so the game is played completely without any interruptions and at the end, the player leaves the animus and maybe even has some MD protagonist and a long story line.

I'm sure others have ideas of how the story and game can blend together and maybe Ubi are already working on it. But as I said before, I'm not a fan of MD/ 1st Civ but I do not want it removed.

dxsxhxcx
06-22-2017, 01:43 PM
I think you may have highlighted the problem that exists with 1st Civ/ MD when you wrote "Animus disruptions"

To be honest that is exactly how I see 1st Civ/ MD. A constant interruption to the game. Now as incredibly annoying as the interruptions are, I have no problem with 1st Civ/ MD, I simply have a problem with the way they are implemented into the game at the moment. I am not sure whether lore/ MD/ 1st Civ fans ever think about the impact this has for gamers like myself. I think MD/ 1st Civ should always be in AC because AC doesn't exist without it... but I still believe that it should be done in a way that does not spoil the game as it has in the past ( I hope you can understand that ).

I'm sure this can be done in many ways, as I have suggested previously, by incorporating it into the game. But it could be brought back by having data points in the game (like a cut scene that can be accessed for more story or skipped to continue the game) or by having a long story line after each game has ended.... so the game is played completely without any interruptions and at the end, the player leaves the animus and maybe even has some MD protagonist and a long story line.

I'm sure others have ideas of how the story and game can blend together and maybe Ubi are already working on it. But as I said before, I'm not a fan of MD/ 1st Civ but I do not want it removed.

I like the MD but I understand where you're coming from, IMO this should be a option the player should make before choosing the save file (difficulty settings, if ever implemented should be placed here as well), "do you want to be interrupted by the MD? YES/NO", if the player chooses YES, the game will play normally, if the player chooses NO, at the end of sequences where he/she would normally be ejected from the animus, a loading screen would appear and he would be back in the game (the historical setting) after that, the only problem would be voice-overs interactions that happen inside the animus, but IMHO the player should at least deal with that since even though he/she doesn't want to be interrupted by it, the MD don't cease to exist because of it.

ceekay.sickart
06-22-2017, 01:49 PM
many pages to read, but my 5 cents about this whole story is that after Patrice Désilets left Ubisoft, the franchise went down story-wise. Patrice created AC and everything felt organized. And all the stories fitted. After that, somebody had to review the whole idea.

I mean, I'm gonna pre-order AC Origins in the next month, I think. It's the only game that I want to own because of the way it immersed me in the story.

I bought and read the AC Encyclopedia, all the editions, and to me the way they told the story there, the way they presented Iltani the way they presented the AC symbol of that period [some ideas here: http://media1.gameinformer.com/imagefeed/screenshots/News/ACEncyclopedia_page14-15.jpg ] and the fact that none of that info is in this game, well, this is disappointing.

I lost the link between the lore I knew and the lore they're creating now with the new game and, more or less, ignorance towards what we already have.

strigoi1958
06-22-2017, 04:03 PM
I like the MD but I understand where you're coming from, IMO this should be a option the player should make before choosing the save file (difficulty settings, if ever implemented should be placed here as well), "do you want to be interrupted by the MD? YES/NO", if the player chooses YES, the game will play normally, if the player chooses NO, at the end of sequences where he/she would normally be ejected from the animus, a loading screen would appear and he would be back in the game (the historical setting) after that, the only problem would be voice-overs interactions that happen inside the animus, but IMHO the player should at least deal with that since even though he/she doesn't want to be interrupted by it, the MD don't cease to exist because of it.

Actually that is a good idea... in fact... all the MD/ 1st Civ part could be located in the start menu (like DLC in other AC games). That way it could be played before,during or after the game, provided there were not any sections that were specific to the game (i.e. BaYek finds some information and you would want to return to MD to discuss it ) but then I suppose the MD/ 1st Civ could be in more than 1 part and it unlocks at specific times in the game, perhaps with an in game reminder that the next episode has unlocked.

Elder-Kalakta
06-22-2017, 07:38 PM
I certainly see where you're coming from, Strigoi. This is a response to you and the other guy who suggested MD being toggled on or off.

There's definitely room for improvements and frankly, Syndicate's done something similar where the Juno segment was completely optional. You could play through Syndicate and never have to encounter Juno at all.

While not a bad idea, I think that separating things like that could impact the story that Ubisoft is trying to tell. What if something happening historically or the Animus user starts having some mental attack as a result of Juno hacking the Animus in the MD for example. The people that toggle "MD" stuff off would either be confused as to what's going on or just miss out on a big story development.

I think getting rid of MD, First Civ and Lore in a game via the ability to toggle things on or off is no different than reading a new novel of your favourite series and just glossing over the chapters you are not a fan of because they focus on a certain character or theme. Which could then impact a later chapter you've skipped to.

Ubisoft should treat the Modern Day with care and make sure it entertains people and keeps them hooked. There were interesting things going on in the previous games and I loved the endings that made you baffled and already anxious for the next release. How they made you wonder what Desmond will do next. I feel some of this was missing when we began doing the floating I-pad in an office and then the cutscenes style MD. Not that I had much of a problem with those. I did enjoy the lore we could learn while hacking the computers.

Also I used the term "Animus Disruptions" because I was looking at it through the eyes of people who aren't too fond of the MD. They definitely see it as disruptions while I personally see it as story progression. I always remember that the history segment is a simulation of the past and expect an Animus interruption to occur. Some people get so caught up in the historical segment that the moment it all starts distorting, they're like "oh for crying out loud, here we go again."

My friend is like that, he's as casual as it gets and he's only played Black Flag. He hates Assassin's Creed but loves Black Flag. He's like the most stereotypical "get rid of MD/First Civ/Lore/Animus" gamer, I kid you not. He despises ending up in the modern day as a floating I-pad to go and "play Frogger while hacking computer systems in an office somewhere in France."

My suggestion is to incorporate First Civ and MD, but to make it something you can skip. Like if Juno forms in front of you and starts chatting, you can just leave the room rather than be forced to listen to her life story. So this way, even people who aren't into it can at least stay for curiosity's sake at first and then never have to worry about it again in their next playthrough.

That was my only criticism of the first Assassin's Creed, after completing the game, I loved coming back to just free roam. But every single time, I had to watch Al Mualim talk first with no way of skipping the cutscene. It's fun the first five times but after five hundred, you are pretty much speaking alongside him every quote off by heart. :p

Same with Black Flag, while I can listen to Juno any time, my friend the casual hates having to listen to her a second or third playthrough. He did it the first time and was fine because he was curious about her, the second time he tried to leave but much to his dismay, she followed him and kept on blabbering how blessed Desmond is and left him stuck there with his ears being defiled by her speech, ever so anxious to go back to pirating in the Caribbean.

projectpat06
06-22-2017, 08:48 PM
So this is the biggest issue I have with AC games and really western games in general. There seems to always be a need to have cliffhangers and an ongoing story to lead into the next game. The whole modern day story has really just been a drag since the beginning because it never really concludes and diminishes in value.

I would rather have a full story from start to finish in one game without any cliffhangers. Any sequels would have the creative freedom to build on the lore but would again be its own self contained story both in the animus and modern day.

cawatrooper9
06-22-2017, 10:24 PM
I like the MD but I understand where you're coming from, IMO this should be a option the player should make before choosing the save file (difficulty settings, if ever implemented should be placed here as well), "do you want to be interrupted by the MD? YES/NO", if the player chooses YES, the game will play normally, if the player chooses NO, at the end of sequences where he/she would normally be ejected from the animus, a loading screen would appear and he would be back in the game (the historical setting) after that, the only problem would be voice-overs interactions that happen inside the animus, but IMHO the player should at least deal with that since even though he/she doesn't want to be interrupted by it, the MD don't cease to exist because of it.

I really like this idea, too.

I generally love the MD stuff, but it becomes kind of a buzzkill in some games. Black Flag's MD, for instance- while I generally enjoy it, it can be frustrating to be ripped from the story to have to play some first person office drama for 15 minutes. So, while I enjoyed it on the first play, it'd be nice to have to option to skip it when I want to.

strigoi1958
06-23-2017, 12:43 AM
Off topic, I like the new forum layout but I miss the highlighted quotes... it seemed easier to see who said what in multi quote posts :) anyway....

Elder-Kalakta said

"While not a bad idea, I think that separating things like that could impact the story that Ubisoft is trying to tell. What if something happening historically or the Animus user starts having some mental attack as a result of Juno hacking the Animus in the MD for example. The people that toggle "MD" stuff off would either be confused as to what's going on or just miss out on a big story development."

Well story fans wouldn't toggle MD off and game fans are not interested in the story so we would not want to be interrupted by a big story development or any story development.That's why I added

" I suppose the MD/ 1st Civ could be in more than 1 part and it unlocks at specific times in the game, perhaps with an in game reminder that the next episode has unlocked."

I was thinking the game could "glitch for a second and Shaun could say "there's a problem here do you want to return and see... or shall I fix it?" then users can decide to go back to the MD section at the relevant time or allow Shaun to fix it and continue in game. It make sense if BaYek (or future protagonists) discovers something relevant to MD/ 1st Civ that would raise questions that people would like answers to before continuing.

I think the main problem is that MD/ 1st Civ fans see the story as part of the game while as a gamer it is just a background story to me, a very important story but still something that exists outside of the game. I have suggested many times that it could be incorporated into the game by following items through history to their location in MD and collecting them. It would make MD integral to the game... as opposed to being an interruption, it would be a necessity before returning to the historical part of the game.

However, at present, as the story does not need to interact with the game, It is possible to complete the game and at the end have a big reveal that requires a long MD/ 1st Civ story line. Even an MD protagonist. And that section could run parallel to the game. It could even have a conclusion each game that would not affect the next game just leading into the next story.

I guess it depends on how much Ubisoft are willing to spend on developing another MD protagonist and expanding the MD/ 1st Civ story line... personally, I think it would be money well invested because I believe it would bring many many more fans to the franchise and more assassins makes me happy :) , and, because mystery sells and the MD/ 1st Civ and lore are packed full of mystery and plot twists.

HatWearingMann
07-26-2018, 04:04 AM
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Assassin%27s_Creed:_Uprising
If you are interested in Juno's story then read this comic series because she won't appear in the games anymore, only in these comics. It was a stupid decision from Ubisoft to finish her story in the comics after building it up in the games for years.

bitebug2003
08-03-2018, 02:31 PM
The whole Modern Day annoys me ever since Desmond died.

I find logs and intel - can't be bothered to read them it's just to convoluted and the walls of text is hard to read (tiny font doesn't help either)

AC Syndicate -- Juno 'head in the sky' was ludicrous

Modern Day in Black Flag and Rogue was tedious - (Numbskull - really?)
Didn't care much for Layla either.

The Pieces of Eden - Yes - they remain interesting so does exploring the futuristic ruins.

but the rest - meh