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sarah jackson
07-27-2004, 07:22 AM
hi,
I'm supposed to be doing my dissertation on The amount of stress that planes undergo at certain speeds, but am having a bit of difficulty. A friend recommended you guys to me so i was just wondering if anyone could help? thanks
sarah jackson x http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

sarah jackson
07-27-2004, 07:22 AM
hi,
I'm supposed to be doing my dissertation on The amount of stress that planes undergo at certain speeds, but am having a bit of difficulty. A friend recommended you guys to me so i was just wondering if anyone could help? thanks
sarah jackson x http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

gpang788
07-27-2004, 07:48 AM
Not sure if you've found the right place cos this is a gaming community, not an aeronautical engineers' community.

Perhaps u should try posting in Oleg's Ready Room cos he was an engineer by training.

Good Luck..

Atomic_Marten
07-27-2004, 07:49 AM
You have to be a little more specific... what plane, speeds etc. I'm not an expert but for sure there are guys overhere that can help u. Also u may wanna try post this thread on:

IL-2 Community Help (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=frm&s=400102&f=49310655)

Oleg's Ready Room (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=frm&s=400102&f=63110913)

Cheers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

Capt._Tenneal
07-27-2004, 08:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gpang788:
Not sure if you've found the right place cos this is a gaming community, not an aeronautical engineers' community.

Perhaps u should try posting in Oleg's Ready Room cos he was an engineer by training.

Good Luck..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now if you had asked about .50 caliber M2 machine guns....(but that's another story) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

pres_
07-27-2004, 08:05 AM
What particular planes are you interested in ?

This sim has good flight/damage models (but of course pretty much based on anecdotal evidence) and has flyable about a hundred planes.

Example : according to the modelling of this sim, a bf-109G6 without wing gunpods, external tanks or bomb, with full load of fuel, started breaking control surfaces at (estimated, off the indicator) 850km/h IAS, in a vertical dive at approx. 4000m altitude. First off both ailerons, then both wings lost almost immediately afterwards, one snapping cleanly at the wing root the other snapping roughly just off the landing gear. Then one elevator off. Some seconds later, just before impact with the ground, the rudder came off. One elevator hanging in there.

This is how a vertical dive from 10000m to the ground pans out in Oleg's sim for this plane. If I were to turn on the HUD I could give much more exact information. Is this the sort of thing you want ?

ELEM
07-27-2004, 08:13 AM
Aircraft Stress Analysis is a large and complex subject that takes years of study to become qualified as a Stress Engineer. Are you actually doing a University course in this subject? I assume not, as you would not be asking such a simplistic question on a gaming forum. I suggest you do a search on Google initially, which will show you how deep the subject is. If you are in the UK perhaps the Cranfield College of Aeronautics would be a good place to approach..

http://www.ccoa.aero/

I wouldn't join any club that would have ME as member!

http://img35.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Elem_Klimov/I-16_desktop.jpg http://img35.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Elem_Klimov/dhm_787_small.jpg

LilHorse
07-27-2004, 08:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gpang788:
Not sure if you've found the right place cos this is a gaming community, not an aeronautical engineers' community.

Perhaps u should try posting in Oleg's Ready Room cos he was an engineer by training.

Good Luck..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL! Well, it's sad to say but there used to be plenty of people here who could have certainly steered you in the right direction (plenty of sites with gobs of info. or stuff these guys had in their own libraries). Unfortunately, those days are gone. I used to see some of the most interesting threads dealing with aeronautical subjects here. Now it's all a lot of whining about patches and such. Oh well. Good Luck.

NegativeGee
07-27-2004, 09:07 AM
Rocks possibly, can't help you with planes I'm afraid http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Perhaps if you can be a bit more specific with what your problem is then someone maybe able to steer you in the right direction better.

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - G√ľnther Rall

http://www.invoman.com/images/tali_with_hands.jpg

Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!

Hoarmurath
07-27-2004, 09:09 AM
have you searched here?

http://naca.larc.nasa.gov/

http://hoarmurath.free.fr/images/sighoar.jpg (http://hoarmurath.free.fr/files/internationale-ru.mp3)
56Kers are strongly advised to NOT click on my signature http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

sarah jackson
07-27-2004, 09:51 AM
Pres- Yes this is exactly the kind of thing that i was looking for. Also i was wondering if any of you guys had actaully flown a plane for real? any real life experiences would be very useful http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif x

rawheid_rex
07-27-2004, 09:59 AM
There's an aeronautics forum
here:

http://www.eng-tips.com/

Might be worth a try http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

R_R

"Alright, come out with your hands up, two cups of coffee, an auto freshener that says Capricorn, and something with coconut on it!"

F19_Ob
07-27-2004, 10:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sarah jackson:
Pres- Yes this is exactly the kind of thing that i was looking for. Also i was wondering if any of you guys had actaully flown a plane for real? any real life experiences would be very useful http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif x<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If U have time to wait a while U'll get answers from "pilots" aircraftbuilders or engineers. I have seen atleast 4 military aviators on other occasions. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

A flying instructor told me I was a "natural puker" and advised me to continue flying simulators and reading books.....and I did. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

PBNA-Boosher
07-27-2004, 10:10 AM
if you would like, I could help you. I am taking flying lessons and fly Piper PA-28 140's. (Cherokee Cruisers) I have done some pretty weird things to those planes, include stress them. Feel free to contact me at:

boosh at kbuch.com

One thing though. At higher speeds, the levels of stress that a plane will experience will be higher, however, you also have to take into account the types of maneuvers, the type of airframe AND internal construction. Another good thing to consider is the role that the plane is used for. Instead of such a general topic for your dissertation, why don't you pick several planes that fulfill different roles, and one multi-role plane, and compare and contrast their stresses.

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

Taylortony
07-27-2004, 10:20 AM
Sarah I would suggest the following links for you,

http://www.faa.gov/certification/aircraft/av-info/dst/CARS/CAR-PART3.PDF

That covers a lot of what i believe you are after also the main site is
http://www.faa.gov/safety/Handbooks.cfm

I did a search under Stress Fatigue VNE and it brought up a lot more than the information listed in the pdf above.

As you seem to want to discuss some of the implications of these in real life with pilots, i would suggest you register and ask some questions at www.pprune.org (http://www.pprune.org) this is the proffesional pilots rumour network http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I hope these help you

I would also do a trawl through the Civil Aviation website in the UK, you can download the flight testing criteria etc for UK registered aircraft, thats the one i use on airtests
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/397/srg_flt_00002-01-03042003.pdf

main CAA site is www.srg.caa.co.uk (http://www.srg.caa.co.uk)

The one that will replace the individual European ones is also here
http://www.easa.eu.int/index.html

that one is the bain of my life http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

sarah jackson
07-27-2004, 10:23 AM
thank you all so much for your help. The stress part is actually a very small part of the actual body of the essay. I'm extremely interested in anyones experiences of actually flying a plane while under guidance of a pilot, or peple whose parents were pilots and they remember flying as children etc. A friend recommended this site as he thought that maybe a section on flight sims would be good so anyone who'd like to discuss their feelings on that would also be great http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

pres_
07-27-2004, 10:25 AM
If you really want some results from the sim you should name the planes and tests you want done.

LilHorse
07-27-2004, 10:45 AM
Well, it looks as though there are still some folks around here who have some good info. Thank goodness.

ELEM
07-27-2004, 10:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sarah jackson:
thank you all so much for your help. The stress part is actually a very small part of the actual body of the essay. I'm extremely interested in anyones experiences of actually flying a plane while under guidance of a pilot, or peple whose parents were pilots and they remember flying as children etc. A friend recommended this site as he thought that maybe a section on flight sims would be good so anyone who'd like to discuss their feelings on that would also be great http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are a lot of PPL's and even CPL's on this forum. I myself have held a PPL for 25 years with a Floatplane rating. However, flying an a/c for stress testing purposes is beyond the scope of the PPL and is normally only done during it's development by highly qualified test pilots. Every pilot will have stories to tell, good and bad. My worst experience was when starting my last shared a/c which was a very simple tandem 2 seater with no brakes, or electricle system. The 100hp engine with wooden prop. had to be hand swung to start it. When starting the engine solo, the elevator had to be held back in the fully up position by a bungee cord to keep the tail down at start up. I had prept the a/c with chocks and primed the engine, but had forgotten to put the bungee around the stick to hold the elevator up. So, when I swung the prop, the engine fired up and the airflow over the tailplane caused the nose of the a/c to pitch down. I ran around to the cockpit to reduce the throttle but could not get to it fast enough to prevent the prop hitting the ground and shattering the wooden propellor!! What made it worse was the prop was brand new! The silence from the stopped engine was deafening as I sat on the grass with my head in my hands, D'oh! Fortuneatly, it was only the prop that was damaged (and my pride!) I was obliged to replace it with another. I suppose you could say that I had stress tested it to destruction!!!

I wouldn't join any club that would have ME as member!

http://img35.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Elem_Klimov/I-16_desktop.jpg http://img35.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Elem_Klimov/dhm_787_small.jpg

PBNA-Boosher
07-27-2004, 11:30 AM
I've taken the 140 to the max sometimes. it's a tough little plane. My instructor hit a deer on the runway a couple months ago too. But yeah, everything I said in my above post is going to be information you'll want to consider.

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

darkhorizon11
07-27-2004, 01:26 PM
Its an extremely complex topic. The best source for this source for this sort of thing in is library or the bookstore. An aerodynamics book would be good. Flight Theory for Pilots by Charles E. Dole is a good start. Fair warning you need an extensive knowledge in the field before tackling one of these books as they all assume you've tons of prior experience. If you do some online searches on terms like Load Factor, V-G Diagrams, Limit Load Factor, Ultimate Load Factor, Static and Dynamic Stability should reveal some information.

Happy hunting.

zjulik
07-27-2004, 01:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gpang788:
Not sure if you've found the right place cos this is a gaming community, not an aeronautical engineers' community.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It ISN`T????? There must be literally thousands of posts in here saying, "Look at me - I am an aeronautical engineer!"

TD_Klondike
07-27-2004, 01:53 PM
I would also recommend a physics textbook, especially if you're interested in life-limited parts of an aluminum airframe.

It would be helpful if you would post your background, and what you're looking for precisely. For example, I'm getting ready to take my flight instructor certification test, and all I know about this stuff is that the needle on the airspeed indicator isn't supposed to go past the red line. I'm not sure if a pilot is your best resource.

By the way, are you from the midwest? We share a last name.

tttiger
07-27-2004, 02:12 PM
A "dissertation" implies you are working on a PhD.

Most of the conversation in here barely qualifies as high school level. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Your questions are very broad. What little my addled brain recalls from grad school is that research projects were extremely specific.

I smell a troll. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

bazzaah2
07-27-2004, 03:16 PM
cd be for a masters (MSc). I'm writing one at the moment.

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_05.gif

Crashing online as :FI:SpinyNorman

THE_Bu11dog
07-27-2004, 03:56 PM
Sarah:

I am a pilot with a commercial certificate and instrument rating. If you need any specific information you can email or PM me.

Spinnetti
07-27-2004, 04:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sarah jackson:
hi,
I'm supposed to be doing my dissertation on The amount of stress that planes undergo at certain speeds, but am having a bit of difficulty. A friend recommended you guys to me so i was just wondering if anyone could help? thanks
sarah jackson x http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are joking right? If you got to Phd level without knowing how to research a topic, I'd like to go to your school!

GH_Klingstroem
07-27-2004, 06:17 PM
another guy here with a CPL commercial licence and instrument rating... Ask any questions you want. I have experince from flying in Congo and got shot at quite a few times... Landed my Beechcraft Kingair and when pulling her back into the hangar noticed 3 big holes in the tail section from somekind of a machinegun. Probably got them sometime shortly after take off while still beeing low... Now a days we only do emegency decents when we come in to land... quite funny actually! anyway Sarah, ask any question you want!

WTE_Galway
07-27-2004, 06:19 PM
why does one have the feeling that person is trolling http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

rssmps
07-28-2004, 12:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
One thing though. At higher speeds, the levels of stress that a plane will experience will be higher, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Am I the only one that found something wrong with this statement?

I think you are thinking of drag...
last I checked, stress is not velocity related. G related yes, speed related? that's news to me.

If this was the case, at the speed that a shuttle goes at... the structures would have to be so thick that we'll never get it off hte ground. It's just be a cool looking hunk of metal sitting there.

c-ber3
07-28-2004, 02:44 AM
Sarah, I'm halfway through my private pilots licence and I have a degree in Aeronuatical engineering. I'd be happy to answer any questions you have. PM me.

Mark

ASM 1
07-28-2004, 03:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bazzaah2:
cd be for a masters (MSc). I'm writing one at the moment.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah and I've just finished mine thank god! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Also could be an undergrad dissertation (final year project) good luck with yours anyway Bazzah (and original poster http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) Know what its like.... now I am waiting on result which is infinitely worse than anctually writing the bloody thing http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

S!

Andrew

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v299/asm016/WW2%20Stuff/Sig_Pic.jpg

bazzaah2
07-28-2004, 03:44 AM
thanks ASM! Good luck with yours too!

One month and 10,000 words to go!

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_05.gif

Crashing online as :FI:SpinyNorman

ASM 1
07-28-2004, 04:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bazzaah2:
thanks ASM! Good luck with yours too!

One month and 10,000 words to go!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cheers m8 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif owtchie! 10 000 words to go....http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Know what thats like......http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Have fun M8 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

S!

Andrew

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v299/asm016/WW2%20Stuff/Sig_Pic.jpg

gpang788
07-28-2004, 08:09 AM
Oh Btw Sarah, I highly recommend u try the game also...http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Its good! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Really Good..

kchickenlord
07-28-2004, 10:41 AM
I thought everyone here worked in Aer Rianta and was an expert, until they were made redundant that is http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

ELEM
07-28-2004, 10:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rssmps:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
One thing though. At higher speeds, the levels of stress that a plane will experience will be higher, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Am I the only one that found something wrong with this statement?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I think you are.

I wouldn't join any club that would have ME as member!

http://img35.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Elem_Klimov/I-16_desktop.jpg http://img35.photobucket.com/albums/v107/Elem_Klimov/dhm_787_small.jpg

Taylortony
07-28-2004, 02:18 PM
Its a bit like asking Ralf off the Simpsons a technical question in here sometimes.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Seems we have a quite a few real people in the Industry as well hehehehe, me i just tinker, http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif CAA Chief Engineer, Licensed Engineer, Nominated Engineer and have worked on the Likes of Spitfires, through to Fighter Jets and Airliners, both Freight versions and Self loading Freight versions, with about 8 years of whirly things thrown in too http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Even assisted on ground runs when i started out on i think it was a Zero and a FW190.......ahh how age dims the senses, or was it alcohol http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BaldieJr
07-28-2004, 02:37 PM
+1

This thread is no longer used only as a trot line.