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Nestramutat
06-06-2017, 10:08 PM
There is a serious problem with the members of this rather small community. Everyone developed ganking syndrome.

Players literally run away from 1v1 fights, until some other teammate comes to help and then proceed to rape you.
I have had it. Nobody plays for fun or skill anymore, it's all about winning, raping the other team and spamming silly, demeaning emotions on top of your body. There are a few select skilled players who are respectful, helpful and most of all, honorable, but the vast majority are like mutated testicles from Chernobyl, running in pairs of 3. Until Ubisoft makes revenge useful again, peace to you.

Dear players, the few of you who are left, have fun ****** bots.

Gray360UK
06-06-2017, 10:18 PM
The problem is going into a 4 vs 4 mode and expecting 1 vs 1 fights. There's a mode for honourable 1 vs 1 fights.

Also, Player VS AI is where the teamwork really shines. I regularly get far better teams who help each other out and act as a group in VS AI compared to VS Player. Probably because you're not constantly in danger of being spam kicked / ganked / killed. People relax, play it for fun, emote spam each other for a laugh, use the quick chat and respond to help requests. So ironically, bots are where the fun is at.

You should try it :)

Knight_Gregor
06-06-2017, 10:41 PM
Nothing will change until Ubisoft makes incentive in objective based modes to play the objective. There should be a major point bonus to holding and boosting dominion zones. If people got way less points for kills, then you wouldn't see as much ganking.

At any rate. I think it's time Ubisoft reinstated the player count. They aren't fooling anyone. At least have the decency to show the true state of the game.

CandleInTheDark
06-06-2017, 10:49 PM
Nothing will change until Ubisoft makes incentive in objective based modes to play the objective. There should be a major point bonus to holding and boosting dominion zones. If people got way less points for kills, then you wouldn't see as much ganking.

Um right. because it's not like it's two permanent points a second for boosting a zone compared to five points for killing an opponent, right?

Knight_Gregor
06-06-2017, 11:08 PM
Um right. because it's not like it's two permanent points a second for boosting a zone compared to five points for killing an opponent, right?

I don't know what the points for getting a kill is. Nor if there are any additional factors, such as saving allies, that affect that point amount. All I can tell you is in my experience someone who runs out and gets a few lucky last hits on an enemy winds up with more points than someone standing around defending a zone.

Not always the case. But it shouldn't even be close.

CandleInTheDark
06-07-2017, 12:04 AM
I don't know what the points for getting a kill is. Nor if there are any additional factors, such as saving allies, that affect that point amount. All I can tell you is in my experience someone who runs out and gets a few lucky last hits on an enemy winds up with more points than someone standing around defending a zone.

Not always the case. But it shouldn't even be close.

Those are the points exactly. I would guess the situation you're talking about is the kill streak bonus since you get bonus points for streaks, for assassins it is more important because they get more renown (I am not certain about point tally but renown certainly) the higher their streak goes as opposed to holding zone, soldier killing or being outnumbered (vanguard) assists and saving allies (heavies) or over everything (hybrid). I am pretty certain assassins have to actually be credited with the kill to get their main source of renown boost as opposed to the minimum boost for soldiers or boosting zone which is something to think of next time you feel a bit ticked they stole one. Speaking as someone who mostly plays assassin, it is much more annoying for me >.> lol

Knight_Gregor
06-07-2017, 12:33 AM
Those are the points exactly. I would guess the situation you're talking about is the kill streak bonus since you get bonus points for streaks, for assassins it is more important because they get more renown (I am not certain about point tally but renown certainly) the higher their streak goes as opposed to holding zone, soldier killing or being outnumbered (vanguard) assists and saving allies (heavies) or over everything (hybrid). I am pretty certain assassins have to actually be credited with the kill to get their main source of renown boost as opposed to the minimum boost for soldiers or boosting zone which is something to think of next time you feel a bit ticked they stole one. Speaking as someone who mostly plays assassin, it is much more annoying for me >.> lol

Renown really has nothing to do with it. I'm speaking strictly about point score. The issue is that you still get points for the kill just by landing a hit in addition to the killstreak bonuses you speak of (not sure if you have to actually last hit for the killstreak bonus) so roaming gank squads seem to be more efficient than standing and defending a point. I just got out of a match where a Centurion got 12 kills - not last hitting them all, just landing a hit before he died - and had nearly twice as many points as the next person.

Regardless. My opinion is that in dominion this behavior needs to be circumvented somehow.

ONYX_x5
06-07-2017, 01:20 AM
Knight the secret in 4v4 is getting your 3rd and 4th feat when facing the new hero gank squads. It's really that easy. Honestly. True fact. Achieve your fourth feat. There it is.

Knight_Gregor
06-07-2017, 01:28 AM
Knight the secret in 4v4 is getting your 3rd and 4th feat when facing the new hero gank squads. It's really that easy. Honestly. True fact. Achieve your fourth feat. There it is.

Umm... Thanks?

Nestramutat
06-07-2017, 12:43 PM
The problem is going into a 4 vs 4 mode and expecting 1 vs 1 fights. There's a mode for honourable 1 vs 1 fights.

I understand dominion, don't worry. MY problem is players running away from 1v1 fights, like scared children, only to come back with 'friends' and rip your guts, then spam silly emotions on top of your body, like 'look what I did!'

Nobody says dominion can not be honorable, or fun. Players simply refuse to lose a 1v1 and do whatever it takes to win a game, at the detriment of others if need be. What do you have to lose if you die in this silly game, aside from a little pride, assuming you have that in the first place?

No, the game actively encourages ganking in every way possible, revenge is less than useful, it doesn't even respect its own descriptions, like being uninterruptible while in it.
Offer the easiest way to win to someone and they will take it. Human nature. So Ubisoft, don't let human nature dictate, make revenge useful again, make it so it doesn't gain pips while in 1v1, but only when damage comes from outside sources. And make it powerful, so little brats think twice about ganking again and forces them to learn how to properly play.

Nestramutat
06-07-2017, 01:14 PM
Better yet, lets forget about revenge, it's a stupid mechanic to a game that already has more in common with StarTrek than a medieval game (teleportation, photon torpedoes falling out of the skies etc).

Make it so that in a 1vX situation, external damage is only chip damage and you can not be GB or interrupted/stunned unless from primary target.

And get rid of all the ridiculous active feats that break the game, have heroes have only passive feats, a lot of them, for more strategic thinking and gameplay (passive feats like gaining more renown when actively holding a zone or when killing honorably and stuff like that, to make people think)

Gray360UK
06-07-2017, 01:15 PM
What do you have to lose if you die in this silly game, aside from a little pride, assuming you have that in the first place?

Well, you lose exactly what you described, the chance to run away and come back with reinforcements and beat the crap out of the guy that nearly killed you. From his perspective, that's winning, and that is better than dying to you. From your perspective, yes, that sucks. But you can't blame him.

As a Peacekeeper [insert hate here] I can disengage and leave the area pretty much whenever I like. I would far rather relocate to an empty zone and take that or go and gang up on someone else or come back and kill you with reinforcements than grant you a kill and me 30 seconds out of the match. It just makes no sense from a tactical point of view.

Lets face it, the only reason for someone to die to you if they don't have to is to give your ego / pride a boost. A pat on the back for being 'better'. Well done, have a cookie.

I do agree that running and then coming back with friends and emote spamming is kinda lame, but some people like that stuff, especially when they know it's likely to produce salty tears of rage from the victim.

Draghmar
06-07-2017, 01:17 PM
Renown really has nothing to do with it. I'm speaking strictly about point score. The issue is that you still get points for the kill just by landing a hit in addition to the killstreak bonuses you speak of (not sure if you have to actually last hit for the killstreak bonus) so roaming gank squads seem to be more efficient than standing and defending a point. I just got out of a match where a Centurion got 12 kills - not last hitting them all, just landing a hit before he died - and had nearly twice as many points as the next person.

Regardless. My opinion is that in dominion this behavior needs to be circumvented somehow.
I've never payed to much attention as to how much points kill gives...so you're saying that the more people poke someone to death the more points team will get? Not renown but points?

Nestramutat
06-07-2017, 01:17 PM
Well, you lose exactly what you described, the chance to run away and come back with reinforcements and beat the crap out of the guy that nearly killed you. From his perspective, that's winning, and that is better than dying to you. From your perspective, yes, that sucks. But you can't blame him.

As a Peacekeeper [insert hate here] I can disengage and leave the area pretty much whenever I like. I would far rather relocate to an empty zone and take that or go and gang up on someone else or come back and kill you with reinforcements than grant you a kill and me 30 seconds out of the match. It just makes no sense from a tactical point of view.

Lets face it, the only reason for someone to die to you if they don't have to is to give your ego / pride a boost. A pat on the back for being 'better'. Well done, have a cookie.

I do agree that running and then coming back with friends and emote spamming is kinda lame, but some people like that stuff, especially when they know it's likely to produce salty tears of rage from the victim.

Alright, I agree with you on many points, because you are right. But see my suggestions above, what do you think?

XxHunterHxX
06-07-2017, 01:23 PM
[QUOTE=Nestramutat;12696985 Players simply refuse to lose a 1v1 and do whatever it takes to win a game, at the detriment of others if need be. What do you have to lose if you die in this silly game, aside from a little pride, assuming you have that in the first place? [/QUOTE]


its sad how you ir so wrong and right at the same time....

The_B0G_
06-07-2017, 01:43 PM
I don't mind getting ganked, as long as I can actually fight back , being stun locked by two cents is no fun at all.

Ganking is the reason 4v4 is so fun for me, the chaos. 1v1 is boring, it's nice getting a 1v1 in a 4v4 mode but it puts a sense of urgency into the fight, you don't have time to have a staring contest between each exchange.

Also what's more exciting then getting attacked by 2 players and winning?

Draghmar
06-07-2017, 01:44 PM
Also what's more exciting then getting attacked by 2 players and winning?
Getting ganked by 3 or more and winning? ;)

The_B0G_
06-07-2017, 01:45 PM
Getting ganked by 3 or more and winning? ;)

Lol exactly.

Gray360UK
06-07-2017, 02:16 PM
Alright, I agree with you on many points, because you are right. But see my suggestions above, what do you think?

I like your ideas, I think you are thinking along the right lines.

We need to find a solution to ganking that doesn't make the victim OP like old Revenge did or punish teamwork like old Revenge did, something that gives a good player a chance to fight back when outnumbered, something that discourages ganking but then again also doesn't completely remove the advantage that comes from attacking someone who is outnumbered. In a team game, outnumbering your opponent is a valid tactic, you can't make it so that it doesn't work. We just need to make it not so easy.

My personal favourite solution is to have Revenge grant CC / GB immunity or (more extreme solution) to make anyone that hits you with a Heavy while you have Revenge fall over (like when you activate Revenge) ... something like that. Basically to make it about disabling your attackers, lessening their abilities, rather than increasing your own until you have Godmode like old Revenge.

UbiNoty
06-08-2017, 02:25 AM
Some good discussion here on ganking, teamwork, and the state of 4v4s here that I'd like to bring up with the team. :D

Mia.Nora
06-08-2017, 02:40 AM
I like your ideas, I think you are thinking along the right lines.

We need to find a solution to ganking that doesn't make the victim OP like old Revenge did or punish teamwork like old Revenge did, something that gives a good player a chance to fight back when outnumbered, something that discourages ganking but then again also doesn't completely remove the advantage that comes from attacking someone who is outnumbered. In a team game, outnumbering your opponent is a valid tactic, you can't make it so that it doesn't work. We just need to make it not so easy.

My personal favourite solution is to have Revenge grant CC / GB immunity or (more extreme solution) to make anyone that hits you with a Heavy while you have Revenge fall over (like when you activate Revenge) ... something like that. Basically to make it about disabling your attackers, lessening their abilities, rather than increasing your own until you have Godmode like old Revenge.

Yea CC Immunity during revenge is the best solution. Then they wont even need to nerf centurion. But they need MOAR DATA

UbiNoty
06-08-2017, 02:48 AM
We do like to back up whatever decisions we make with data because it allows us to make informed, knowledgeable decisions. You all have some great ideas, but your experience is still only from what you know from your own circumstances. There's many other players out there each with their own individual experiences, opinions, etc. So by having the data to back up any decision we make, we can parlay subjective experience into objective facts, and thus have at least some modicum of confidence that we're making the right decision.

Netcode_err_404
06-08-2017, 03:01 AM
Yea CC Immunity during revenge is the best solution. Then they wont even need to nerf centurion. But they need MOAR DATA

CEnturion needs to be nerfed, because at the moment is just lame.

Seems like a wwe wrestler, enetered in for honor.

Mia.Nora
06-08-2017, 03:25 AM
We do like to back up whatever decisions we make with data because it allows us to make informed, knowledgeable decisions. You all have some great ideas, but your experience is still only from what you know from your own circumstances. There's many other players out there each with their own individual experiences, opinions, etc. So by having the data to back up any decision we make, we can parlay subjective experience into objective facts, and thus have at least some modicum of confidence that we're making the right decision.

No offense but judging by the amount of *right decisions* have been done, your data analysts must be part time interns. But let them take their time, game is still thriving and strong after all, right?

Who takes fast action to fix things anyway? I guess it is just limited to Bliz

Edit: I just remembered when everyone, including PK mains were complaining about PK light spam, you guys nerfed every other tool in her kit except light spam making her light spam even more common, because *data*.

Draghmar
06-08-2017, 07:49 AM
We do like to back up whatever decisions we make with data because it allows us to make informed, knowledgeable decisions. You all have some great ideas, but your experience is still only from what you know from your own circumstances. There's many other players out there each with their own individual experiences, opinions, etc. So by having the data to back up any decision we make, we can parlay subjective experience into objective facts, and thus have at least some modicum of confidence that we're making the right decision.
And what data that will be if I may ask? K/D ratio from 7% top players for the matches that didn't crash? Do you really have something more? It's a honest question.

Mia.Nora
06-08-2017, 09:47 AM
And what data that will be if I may ask? K/D ration from 7% top players for the matches that didn't crash? Do you really have something more? It's a honest question.

No amount of data can tell how much CC-Gank squads make people hate this game.

Or maybe their brilliant analysts can look at K/D ratios to see how much unfun/fun new heroes made the game?

Aarpian
06-08-2017, 12:07 PM
We do like to back up whatever decisions we make with data because it allows us to make informed, knowledgeable decisions. You all have some great ideas, but your experience is still only from what you know from your own circumstances. There's many other players out there each with their own individual experiences, opinions, etc. So by having the data to back up any decision we make, we can parlay subjective experience into objective facts, and thus have at least some modicum of confidence that we're making the right decision.

Because it's worked out so well for you thus far.


Akchually, data shows that Raider is a Peacekeeper killer

I agree that data is king, but you need the right data and to draw the right conclusions from it.


To the OP regarding gank squads being a thing - it's not the fault of the players if they play optimally. If gank-squadding is deemed to be something that ubisoft don't want to encourage for whatever reason (like, for example, it pisses a lot of players off), then it is up to them to alter game mechanics so that it isn't so rewarding. For example:

Reducing respawn timers in general, making kills less effective at gaining momentum
Reducing renown/point gain from kills (same as above)
Reducing renown from Xv1 kills/assists
Changing revenge to make it better at defending against multiple hostiles, making ganking slower and less likely to be successful
Giving bonus renown for killing someone in a 1vX scenario (altering the risk/reward for ganking toward the defender)
Nerfing revive speed/effectiveness
Making kills in revenge mode automatically prevent revives like executes do
Making/buffing powerful anti-gank feats
Increasing friendly fire damage
Buffing objective point gain

XxHunterHxX
06-08-2017, 12:21 PM
they even gank in 2 v 2 now....