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View Full Version : It's shameful how terrible a state Conq has been left in for this long.



Jasado
06-06-2017, 08:04 AM
Like, playing him after playing other characters is just...bizarre. He's got a great concept, but his fundamentals are AWFUL, with ZERO meaningful tradeoff for it.

He cannot guarantee a heavy from a grab, it seems like. He can't dash and grab to tech-chase enemy dodgers because of his shield bash cancel, the bash itself doesn't guarantee a heavy, his grab range is terrible, he cannot feint, his infinite light game is mediocre, nowhere near berserker tier, his chain mace reflects ZERO identity as being a flail/chain mace (he should be doing crazy chip), also how do you parry an enormous metal lump being leveraged at you, pretty sure the entire point of that weapon is you aren't supposed to be able to easily parry or block it. Like, historically, I am fairly certain the entire concept of the weapon is that it is hard to defend against, much less parry it.

There is just so many basic rules of the game that he is denied and he has no real advantages as compensation. All-Block stance is a joke, because even if you mindgame an opponent and properly shield bash cancel out of it (which is slower and easier to hit than ALL of warlords MULTIPLE options out of his) you STILL can't get a guaranteed heavy out of THAT. Most of the time you use it, you're just asking for 1 person to grab you while the other attacks, so if you grab reject the one person, the second person's attack hits you anyways.

He can't move during his infinite zone, and the range on his infinite zone is dookie, and the damage is negligible, if it doesn't get blocked.

Seriously, Ubi. What the actual ****? It's glaringly obvious that even giving him a free heavy from a grab would be a tremendous help (if not just a bandaid fix for the time) to put this character anywhere close to "actually playable".

And the point of having a chargeable heavy is that it's "better". It isn't an excuse to nerf his base heavy damage. His top heavy does like, Shinobi damage on it's own. If you HAVE to charge just to do any normal damage, that removes the entire point of it existing as a bonus. Pretty sure a dude swinging a cannonball on a chain directly into the top of your skull will HURT.

How did Conq make it out of Beta in this piss-poor state? Serious question.

Trbevis
06-06-2017, 09:26 AM
Well said. I mained conquerer but rarely use him in pvp now, he just seems really poor at the moment, its a shame i have had to stop using him. His charged heavy should deal a lot more damage, considering its the most obvious attack in the whole game and most people just run off when i do it now, it deals hardly anything. I know the for honor team have mentioned they are looking at ways of changing him but it would be nice for an update on that....

Herbstlicht
06-06-2017, 10:27 AM
Uhm, adding in the fact that people still hate playing conqs due to many being very turtlish and passive. Ah well, I don't play conq and I never will. He is just so freakin' boring. I mean nothing to speak for him, shield bash is a little fun, but thats it. No cool mixups, not a lot of mindgames, very limited offensive options.

Only thing thats ok is his range. I mean a lot of other heroes have low range, and it kinda suits him and his weapon, it just isn't a long ranged one.

Anyway, let us hope they will make him fun again. Right now, it seems they work on the Samurai heroes. There, Orochi is a perfect example of another hero with some rework needed. Reason is simple too: On a higher level of play, the reliance on only two attacks makes the game very shallow. So .. let us see what Ubi manages to deliver here. Because mindless buffs might make him too strong. But some nice adjustments might just bring him to the place he deserves to be. Oh and I, personally, wouldnt even care about zone attack getting delayed to 500ms as a tradeoff.
As I am sure many conq players wouldnt mind some minor adjustments in numbers, as long as they get more viable options on the offensive side.

Mia.Nora
06-06-2017, 10:37 AM
Rep 8 conq here, he is really pathetic in current meta. 12 damage lights, 25 damage top heavy... and he is listed as Heavy Hitter.

He is the worst hitter in the game with slowest attacks that deal the lowest damage, with extremely small options.

Dizzy4213
06-06-2017, 10:45 AM
Rep 8 conq here, he is really pathetic in current meta. 12 damage lights, 25 damage top heavy... and he is listed as Heavy Hitter.

He is the worst hitter in the game with slowest attacks that deal the lowest damage, with extremely small options.

Not making an excuse for his current state, but he is primarily a defence hero. Can't have the best defence as well as the best attack.

That being said, I wouldn't bother paying any attention to hero types. They don't mean anything. Just look at Centurion. He's listed as a Melee/Mix-Up specialist, yet he's much more of a Disabler than anything else. Even surpassing the heroes actually listed as Disablers. Ubi clearly has no idea what they're doing anymore.

Gray360UK
06-06-2017, 10:47 AM
My Conqueror is not my main by any means, approaching Rep 2 and only in blue gear, and only used for 'complete X as a Heavy' orders, but damn is that character weak. So much defensive play required before you can risk unleashing a hit, and then .... wow ... next to no damage done.

Even when I get to smack people over the head repeatedly with a top Heavy as part of a gank squad, the damage is laughable.

Seems to be part of the design sadly. If you watch the Conqueror tutorials in-game, it is the only class where one of the suggested tactics is to wait for help to arrive ;)

kweassa1917
06-06-2017, 10:59 AM
My Conqueror is not my main by any means, approaching Rep 2 and only in blue gear, and only used for 'complete X as a Heavy' orders, but damn is that character weak. So much defensive play required before you can risk unleashing a hit, and then .... wow ... next to no damage done.

Even when I get to smack people over the head repeatedly with a top Heavy as part of a gank squad, the damage is laughable.

Seems to be part of the design sadly. If you watch the Conqueror tutorials in-game, it is the only class where one of the suggested tactics is to wait for help to arrive ;)

The damage comes with charges, Gray, if you are a part of ganking that is. You don't just swing random hits like others in the gank -- you disuprt enemy action with shield bashes, and land up a charged heavy when enemy tries to retaliate.

He's also probably got the best superior block attack of them all, since his side heavies are one of the fastest in game and very easy to time to even incoming light attacks. The guaranteed GB from blocking heavies is immense confidence booster as well.

What people don't realize is Conq is way more technical type of fighter than one might imagine. Most use Conqs as if it's a straight-up "bash your skull in" Warlord style, but he's really not that type.

Try mixing in a lot of those superior block heavies consciously -- it's really different from your usual perception of Conqs.

MarkedElite
06-06-2017, 11:21 AM
Conq does get side heavy off gb?

But regardless, he is in a bad state right now, equal to pre-buff raider if not worse.
When you chain your heavy, why can't you counter GB? You're supposed to just throw your heavy out before they do? Lol. What a joke.

kweassa1917
06-06-2017, 11:25 AM
Conq does get side heavy off gb?

But regardless, he is in a bad state right now, equal to pre-buff raider if not worse.
When you chain, why can't you counter GB? You're supposed to just throw your heavy out before they do? Lol. What a joke.

Yep. "You know nothing, MarkedElite" :rolleyes:


The only thing he is "bad" is in is with attack variety and limited options, which doesn't detract anything from his set which has always been strong enough. Good cases can be made against whether he is fun to play, because he is very "one-trick" which nobody denies.

But then again it's still one of the best "tricks" since launch, still is. He's one of the 4 traditional "OPs" at launch, others may have tried to catch up, and some like the Shib can threaten his place (especially since it's a bad matchip 1v1), that don't mean he's suddenly "pre-buff raider".


You know NOTHING of what the pre-buff raider is like.

Netcode_err_404
06-06-2017, 11:28 AM
Conq is one of the top heroes, in the current meta.

You can turtle up ad infinitum, punish anyone with an istant shield bash.

He doesn't need a nerf nor a buff, needs a rework, because nobody with some brain, will play an hero in the way the game forces you to play him.

Speaking about conq :

> turtle up
> shield bash
> repeat.

XxHunterHxX
06-06-2017, 11:45 AM
Conq is one of the top heroes, in the current meta.

You can turtle up ad infinitum, punish anyone with an istant shield bash.

He doesn't need a nerf nor a buff, needs a rework, because nobody with some brain, will play an hero in the way the game forces you to play him.

Speaking about conq :

> turtle up
> shield bash
> repeat.

what is that comon sens on the forum ? hell no ! give us conq main's a spam combo to....shield bash light atack wont work anymore so yeah...(sarcasm)

CandleInTheDark
06-06-2017, 04:49 PM
They have their moments, I just parried a centurion's charged heavy then proceeded to show him what infinite wall splat looks like when a true heavy does it, there was a time a few days ago a centurion got it from me and another conqueror, both of those were satisfying ;)

The devs said a few weeks ago he is strong in terms of he wins but yes he only has one viable tactic and that is something they want to look at.

Antonioj26
06-06-2017, 04:56 PM
I don't understand why people think he is so bad. I admit I thought the same at first was right after the nerf but I recentLy picked him up again and I demolish. He's definitely up there with my strongest heroes

The_B0G_
06-06-2017, 05:25 PM
He really just needs new moves altogether, his build is complete sh**. All he has is turtle until revenge, then shield bash+heavy until you are dead. The only time I get killed without them doing that is because I made a bunch of mistakes/missed parries that I should of had.

Netcode_err_404
06-06-2017, 05:27 PM
what is that comon sens on the forum ? hell no ! give us conq main's a spam combo to....shield bash light atack wont work anymore so yeah...(sarcasm)

Don't know what the people think, nor I care. Conq is a beast, if you are willing to low yourself and play turtle. If you treat the conq as you would do with an orochi, spamming lights , then you are doing it wrong. He needs a serious rework

CaTaStR0Fa
06-06-2017, 10:01 PM
They wont work on the conq right now cause they want to buff the stupid orochi.....Yea what a great idea nerf conq to the ground without even consider to rework him and lets buff the cockrochi who is already balance and not to mention op cause some fanboys will cry( i say op cause of his top double light and his spam zone attack with the flicker)

UbiJurassic
06-07-2017, 12:45 AM
While we are looking to make changes to conqueror, we won't be implementing any major adjustments until the release of the defensive meta patch. This is because Conqueror relies heavily on a defensive playstyle and we want to see how the current iteration of the hero performs post-defensive meta patch before we start making changes to him.

Knight_Gregor
06-07-2017, 12:58 AM
I would just like a full damage buff on all attacks by 10. I main Conqueror and the charge is worthless to easy to parry. I agree with all your points but i feel the stamina penalty is warranted. Really just want a damage buff and your free heavy idea is good but it may be too much. Im a 26 renown as well so i have continued to put time in it even past the crippling.

I'd rather have a straight speed increase on both swings. If you come across two people that know to stagger their attacks and guard breaks you're screwed because you can't swing fast enough to poke one of them down. Just pray they don't dodge the shield bash or are somehow not paying attention when you're swinging at the other guy.

I'd like to see how the conqueror is still a "Beast," against anyone that knows what they're doing.

IlMacgyverIl
06-07-2017, 01:02 AM
While we are looking to make changes to conqueror, we won't be implementing any major adjustments until the release of the defensive meta patch. This is because Conqueror relies heavily on a defensive playstyle and we want to see how the current iteration of the hero performs post-defensive meta patch before we start making change to him.

This is a great idea. Then you can do a thread for feedback, and suggestions centered on him, like you guys did with the orochi.

Ngallo22
06-07-2017, 01:11 AM
how the hellll do you faint a flail lmaoo

CoyoteXStarrk
06-07-2017, 02:11 AM
I don't understand why people think he is so bad. I admit I thought the same at first was right after the nerf but I recentLy picked him up again and I demolish. He's definitely up there with my strongest heroes

He is my second main behind my Beserker.


He is FAR from being among the strongest people. Thats why you see Jurassic talking about how the Devs already know he is weak, but wanna see how he does after the meta patch before they buff him.

Antonioj26
06-07-2017, 02:20 AM
He is my second main behind my Beserker.


He is FAR from being among the strongest people. Thats why you see Jurassic talking about how the Devs already know he is weak, but wanna see how he does after the meta patch before they buff him.

I could be wrong but I think someone said that he's got a great win rate. I don't know dude, I know that out of the 9/14 characters that I play he's easily one of my personal strongest. I whip him out when I need to get serious and I find it rare that I lose 1v1s with him. If I do it's either one of his worst match ups or I've at least given them a run for their money.

Aarpian
06-07-2017, 09:44 AM
While we are looking to make changes to conqueror, we won't be implementing any major adjustments until the release of the defensive meta patch. This is because Conqueror relies heavily on a defensive playstyle and we want to see how the current iteration of the hero performs post-defensive meta patch before we start making changes to him.

Thank **** at last - some sensible feedback from Ubi.

I can tell you now though - he's going to be garbage due to low damage (read: low chip damage) on all of his attacks combined with very expensive feinting.
Unless you give him the option of opting out of the whole chip-damage thing, which is an awful idea and will allow him to turtle up as strong as ever and **** on zerk, roach and kensei.

He will need major work post-patch, since his risk-reward ratios will be in the gutter for every move compared to every other character.