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CoyoteXStarrk
06-06-2017, 04:20 AM
I know people are gonna implode when they read the title, but its basic common sense. His kit is the opener to his knockdown combo and it is 100% reliant on his charged heavy.


His heavy attacks are so abysmally slow to charge up and get out that without the stun it would become one of the most easily parried moves in the game right up their with the Shugoki charged heavy.


For example whenever he uses the charged heavy attack he keeps the sword positioned while he charges in a way that is a dead giveaway of the direction its coming from. Even a half decent player can parry it or just avoid it with ease. The only reason it connects at all at this point is the fact that with the stun it makes it fairly hard to see where its coming from.


His entire kit is built around his reliance on the ability to stun people. Take that away and he is gonna be bottom tier garbage.



There are way better ways of balancing him out and I say all of this btw as a Beserker main.

Mia.Nora
06-06-2017, 04:25 AM
Time and time again you have proven how clueless you are about the actual gameplay in other threads.

You did not even know his mixups, you thought all he could was either kick or lunge (your words, not mine). So I am wandering what changed since then??

Oh right, I remember; you quit the game.

CoyoteXStarrk
06-06-2017, 04:34 AM
Time and time again you have proven how clueless you are about the actual gameplay in other threads.

You did not even know his mixups, you thought all he could was either kick or lunge (your words, not mine). So I am wandering what changed since then??

Oh right, I remember; you quit the game.

and now you are proving how badly you wanna try and act like I am an idiot and try to "Gotcha" me.



I am not saying he doesn't have any other options in my OP. I am focusing on WHY the stuns are essential to his kit and how the stuns and the heavies that follow them are the most barebone essentials of his kit that is most commonly used. More advanced players will of course be able to use more complex combos and mix ups, but the casual Centurion mainly relies on the stuns and the heavies.


By cutting out his stuns like people are asking it leaves him barely having anything.



And yeah I quit because of the lack of team composition variety and if the 2 test matches I did last night its already getting more diverse so I am most likely going to be able to jump back in when the patch gets here with the leaver penalty.

Mia.Nora
06-06-2017, 04:37 AM
and now you are proving how badly you wanna try and act like I am an idiot and try to "Gotcha" me.

I am not saying he doesn't have any other options in my OP. I am focusing on WHY the stuns are essential to his kit and how the stuns and the heavies that follow them are the most barebone essentials of his kit that is most commonly used. More advanced players will of course be able to use more complex combos and mix ups, but the casual Centurion mainly relies on the stuns and the heavies.

By cutting out hi stuns like people are asking it leaves him barely having anything.

That is not a problem with Centurion kit, it is a problem of (again quoting you) gitting gud.

If casuals suck at using the champion properly, it means they suck at using him. It does not make that champion not totally broken in the hands of someone who knows what to do with it.

CoyoteXStarrk
06-06-2017, 04:55 AM
That is not a problem with Centurion kit, it is a problem of (again quoting you) gitting gud.

If casuals suck at using the champion properly, it means they suck at using him. It does not make that champion not totally broken in the hands of someone who knows what to do with it.

Yeah but since casuals make up the majority of the playerbase they balance the game based mostly on Casual data.


They do need to "Git Guud", but there are some things in the game that are basically only avoided by players with high skill caps.

The_B0G_
06-06-2017, 05:14 AM
I thought it was balanced mostly over the top 7% if the player base.

Mia.Nora
06-06-2017, 05:15 AM
I thought it was balanced mostly over the top 7% if the player base.

It IS. Coyote just trying to grasp straws.

darkspawn2101
06-06-2017, 05:18 AM
Yeah but since casuals make up the majority of the playerbase they balance the game based mostly on Casual data.


They do need to "Git Guud", but there are some things in the game that are basically only avoided by players with high skill caps.

This is precisely why I'm not inclined to take anything you have on balance seriously.

You've 'quit' yet chastise others for quitting. Your more concerned with lawding things over people than being constructive.

At the end of the day Cent was designed badly. Needs reworked from the ground up, same with Shinobi.

CoyoteXStarrk
06-06-2017, 05:37 AM
This is precisely why I'm not inclined to take anything you have on balance seriously.

You've 'quit' yet chastise others for quitting. Your more concerned with lawding things over people than being constructive.

At the end of the day Cent was designed badly. Needs reworked from the ground up, same with Shinobi.

1) The fact that I did it in the past and now I have changed the way I view it now does not make my opinion on the matter any less valid. In fact in my opinion that fact I am showing that I am willing to change my opinion on a subject shows that at the very least I am willing to listen unlike alot of people on here.


2) I would not be against a rework, but I really think that on their own they are mostly fine. The Shinobi in 1v1 is high tier obviously, but in 1v1 the Centurion is thoroughly mid tier. He is easily outplayed by anybody with a dodge attack. I would just hope that by admitting they need a rework Ubisoft would also admit that other OG heroes are in desperate need of help (The Conqueror especially)

darkspawn2101
06-06-2017, 05:51 AM
1) The fact that I did it in the past and now I have changed the way I view it now does not make my opinion on the matter any less valid. In fact in my opinion that fact I am showing that I am willing to change my opinion on a subject shows that at the very least I am willing to listen unlike alot of people on here.


2) I would not be against a rework, but I really think that on their own they are mostly fine. The Shinobi in 1v1 is high tier obviously, but in 1v1 the Centurion is thoroughly mid tier. He is easily outplayed by anybody with a dodge attack. I would just hope that by admitting they need a rework Ubisoft would also admit that other OG heroes are in desperate need of help (The Conqueror especially)

I forsee cent having the same problem -as- Conq.

A good conq is basicly one of the most terrifying things in the game. But sevearly limited. I forsee cent being the same thing. I think his skillset totally needs reworked, Because if he's going to be completely based on unblockables, he has the potentially to be really really good, or really really bad.

Either he retains his unpredictability or his unblockables are nerfed to buggery and we see the hero go to the bottom of the barrel.

Same as Conq, it's either god or timmy the ten year old behind the wheel and there's very little middleground.

...As for the attitude, I'll withhold judgement. I stand by my former assessment, but, y'know. People change.

CoyoteXStarrk
06-06-2017, 06:30 AM
It IS. Coyote just trying to grasp straws.

Grasp at straws for what exactly?

Mia.Nora
06-06-2017, 07:14 AM
Grasp at straws for what exactly?

Really??

You claim Centurion is fine. I point out how you dont even know the hero you talk about by referring to your recent posts, in which since then you did not get any more familiar vs him since you know.. you quit. Because all your claim is based on just dodge[tm], because you thought this hero is not capable of doing anything but kick / lunge and heavies. But of course you are wrong and this is just the way people who are at the bottom of skill plays him, which you also agree.

Then you try to grasp straws by claiming that balance IS done based on casuals. When it is obviously not as well as should not, and devs already said it is done based on top%7 mainly. Funniest part is you constantly have been one person who told people to git gud with any and every complaint they had, and here you are asking balance made based on people who dont even know how to use their hero. Go Figure!


At that point I dont even know why I am bothering to reply you at all.

My.Insanity
06-06-2017, 07:29 AM
regarding to the titel: Yes, you can remove the stun without buffing him!

Centurio is one of the most broken Heros in this game (im sure i dont need to tell anyone how OP he is in 4vs4)... even if he is not S-Tier or A-Tier in Duel he is still pure cancer at all.. he has the BEST parry punishment i have ever seen in this game (no we dont talk about Warlord cliff throwing here). 1 Parry followed by his mixup leaves you with no stamina at all.. so all you can do is doge away like a f**king coward or he will spam kicks and punches and your Stamina cant reg...

This Hero deserve all the Nerfs with not a single Buff !!!! Bring him down to a normal lvl and then you can see if he needs a buff

Jasado
06-06-2017, 07:46 AM
You seem to imply that removing a stun that is "too much" means that somehow he should be given compensation.

That's not how balancing works in this specific context.

Again, I believe the kick out of grab > throw > kick should stun, as well as the kick from parry > unique parry followup punch > kick (reduce the insane stamina damage from this tho), but NOT his forward dash kick from nothing. That's just grief territory, and dodging the kick leaves him with the ability to do either the fully charged Imperial Might followup, which if it lands guarantees the super punch, or he can try to stuff the return attack with the uncharged version. Plus he can spam it on a revenge mode target not currently locked on him, which is already potent enough without it infinite flashbanging their screen and preventing them from even defending against other players.

But if the stun were to completely be removed in all aspects from kick, though I don't agree, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. If anything, that gratuitous benefit loss would open eyes towards better long term balance needs for Cent as a character anyways.

SnugglesIV
06-06-2017, 08:12 AM
I know people are gonna implode when they read the title, but its basic common sense. His kit is the opener to his knockdown combo and it is 100% reliant on his charged heavy.


His heavy attacks are so abysmally slow to charge up and get out that without the stun it would become one of the most easily parried moves in the game right up their with the Shugoki charged heavy.


For example whenever he uses the charged heavy attack he keeps the sword positioned while he charges in a way that is a dead giveaway of the direction its coming from. Even a half decent player can parry it or just avoid it with ease. The only reason it connects at all at this point is the fact that with the stun it makes it fairly hard to see where its coming from.


His entire kit is built around his reliance on the ability to stun people. Take that away and he is gonna be bottom tier garbage.



There are way better ways of balancing him out and I say all of this btw as a Beserker main.

I don't think anyone from Ubi has said they want to remove stun from Centurion. The only nerf we know they want to do is on his kick, and that is ONLY for 4v4. I'm not totally sure how they can do that, other than making it impossible to stack stuns from multiple Centurion kicks but hopefully they find a way to nerf the kick stun without messing up 1v1 potential.

Herbstlicht
06-06-2017, 10:16 AM
Oh my gosh. Mr Coyote, how about seriously retiring?

Why you are rather wrong in my opinion?
Game should and will never be balanced about casuals alone. It is important that all players have their fun (hello dominion cent gank squads?), but when viewing the characters from a dueling perspective, they should stand roughly equal chances.

So, now to cents kit: he is a lot of abilitys to open anyone up. He has very fast attacks. He has charged attacks. For the strength and speed of his kit, here the frame data:
Kick - 600ms
Side Lights - 500 / 500 / 600
Top Lights - 500 / 500 / 500
Side Heavies - 600 / 500
Charged - 1000 / 1200
Top Heavies - 600 / 600
Charged - 1000 / 1200
Jab / Charged - 700 / 1000
Zone Attack - 600
Dash Heavy - 900

This is amplyfied by rather lenient release windows of his heavys.

Top : 400 / 600 Ms of release window.
Side : 400 / 700 (!) Ms of release window.
Jab : 300 Ms of release window.

Thats the reason people struggle with parrys. Or the heatseeking effect just happens because this cent just waitet the full 300ms before activating it.

Another extremely powerful addition to this hero, especially in teamgames where parrying this stuff when not focusing on the cent gets luck alone. Ah well, normally you focus a cent. But there is always another to poke and punch at you.

So, what do we have here? An assassin-speed hero that can kill by utilizing light attacks. One that has charged heavys. A hella lot of combos. Insane wall splat punishment. Not saying he is way beyond other s-tier / a-tier heros. But he is way beyond a lot of the cast for sure. And everyone that gets outplayed by dodge attacks .. come on! What do you do on Nobushi kick when you dodge? GB punish! What do you do when you dodge the last heavy in a chain? GB punish. If that is a problem, honestly, you are incompetent in using this hero. He has safer moves then a 600ms kick.

So, what needs to be done are like two things: normalization for cc-effects in larger team games, however you do it. Many solutions all over the forums. The other thing is buffing up other heroes on cents level or just nerf the **** out him. If you or any other one starts winning as much, I won't get 4 out of 5 Cent opponents in 1on1 PvP right now. Currently, he is freakin overused due to his viability and ease of use.

The only area where cent really does become balanced, are the highest levels of play. Those you said don't matter. Here, however, he begins to be outplayed by a few heros that simply have kit thats tailored rather well against him. Shinobi being one of those heroes.


So, in the end, I won't like nerfing any hero into the ground. However, under the current circumstances, swift action and maybe even overdoing things would be better then leaving the game as it is. It is more costly to loose all those that enjoy lower tier heroes then those guys that jumped on the cent-hype train. And - here I am sure as well - are a lot of people that would even like returning to their main. However, the meta doesn't allow for you to enjoy it, so you rather go with the flow.

If the devs really know how to buff him afterwards to give him back his teeth, kinda like the valk, I am fine with it. But right now, I feel he hurts the game more then he brings good to it.

Draghmar
06-06-2017, 10:36 AM
Sigh...I tried but I couldn't find the post (he produces too many of them) from CoyoteXStarrk that game is and should be balanced around only top-top players.

Alchemist..
06-06-2017, 11:04 AM
I think stun isn't the problem. Problem is they make high dmg combo available to easy in to many situations. Cent can be played by noob and stomp even good players because his combo is to easy to pull of, in other side we have top players when he is easy to avoid and punish. He is unfun because he stomping bad/new players and getting stomped by good players

SnugglesIV
06-06-2017, 11:20 AM
Sigh...I tried but I couldn't find the post (he produces too many of them) from CoyoteXStarrk that game is and should be balanced around only top-top players.

Coyote is 100% right though. You cannot balance the game for all levels of play. That is physically impossible. So you have to choose to balance for a specific tier of play. If you balance around the competitive scene, you ensure that characters are viable when they are played optimally. Everyone has a baseline level of skill at that tier of play, which removes any external variables that detract from the strength of the roster. Shinobi is a good example of this. Bad players will ALWAYS get dumpstered playing Shinobi because they will make mistakes and get punished hard for it. If we focused on that level of play, Shinobi would be considered UP and would require buffs such as more health, better mobility etc. However, a good player will not make obvious mistakes and will exploit him to the fullest of his potential because they understand the game on a more fundamental level and have the mechanical skill to utilise a character's kit. In the hands of a good player, Shinobi is very safe and is easily the most powerful character in the game.

This is the problem. You have two very different pictures based on the tier of play. If you balance towards high tier players, then lower tier players who struggle with or against that character can simply learn their match up and seek to improve their own game play to overcome their difficulty because the characters would still be fundamentally balanced. They are rewarded for progressing with tangible results. High tier players don't have this avenue if they have to contend with imbalanced mechanics which are intentionally kept in the game to help lower tier players, or just haven't been found because nobody has had the ability to exploit them to their fullest potential. They have already mastered the game and the characters. It would just be fundamentally broken with no way to play around it other than exploiting it as well.

Herbstlicht
06-06-2017, 11:22 AM
Na, he isnt bad against good players. He onoy can't go easy mode against those. He still got 500ms lights from every direction - like pk. On parry, his punishment can decide a game already. Depending on your opponents actions and how you avoid / counterplay those, you can go into almost every of your mixups. Biggest difference here in comparision to the longer extablished top-tiers is many players still miss the routine for doing so easily.
Though no surprise here, when you can stomp even better players with them only doing few mistakes. No need to get good.

SnugglesIV
06-06-2017, 11:26 AM
Na, he isnt bad against good players. He onoy can't go easy mode against those. He still got 500ms lights from every direction - like pk. On parry, his punishment can decide a game already. Depending on your opponents actions and how you avoid / counterplay those, you can go into almost every of your mixups. Biggest difference here in comparision to the longer extablished top-tiers is many players still miss the routine for doing so easily.
Though no surprise here, when you can stomp even better players with them only doing few mistakes. No need to get good.

If he isn't bad against good players, why is it that most top tier players say Centurion is easily B tier?

Alchemist..
06-06-2017, 11:31 AM
Na, he isnt bad against good players. He onoy can't go easy mode against those. He still got 500ms lights from every direction - like pk. On parry, his punishment can decide a game already. Depending on your opponents actions and how you avoid / counterplay those, you can go into almost every of your mixups. Biggest difference here in comparision to the longer extablished top-tiers is many players still miss the routine for doing so easily.
Though no surprise here, when you can stomp even better players with them only doing few mistakes. No need to get good.

Yes he is bad, and nobody at competitive lvl dont play him, his lights are fast, but try to throw 2 light againts good player, 90% of time second light is parryed easy, pk light are good because of animation, is hard to see from whitch side light is comming, cent lights are telegraphed, he is linear char, there is compleatly no sie play from him, HE IS ONLY CHARACTER WHO DONT HAVE ANSWER FOR SHINOBI KICK AFTER DODGE, even shugoki can punish shino for missed kick, but cent not, he dont have feints, only one is charged heavy into gb. I also make topic on competitiv reddit and thats answer how good cent is


He's trash at high level. One move is feintable/softfeintable. All his "openers" are easily punished if the centurion is neutral. His best strategy is to parry and punish. His guard stance change speed is hilarious against someone like raider that can feint to top. Conq is a God next to cent because cent can't do anything if conq only shoulderbashes.

SnugglesIV
06-06-2017, 11:40 AM
Yes he is bad, and nobody at competitive lvl dont play him, his lights are fast, but try to throw 2 light againts good player, 90% of time second light is parryed easy, pk light are good because of animation, is hard to see from whitch side light is comming, cent lights are telegraphed, he is linear char, there is compleatly no sie play from him, HE IS ONLY CHARACTER WHO DONT HAVE ANSWER FOR SHINOBI KICK AFTER DODGE, even shugoki can punish shino for missed kick, but cent not, he dont have feints, only one is charged heavy into gb. I also make topic on competitiv reddit and thats answer how good cent is

And don't forget that Centurion lights do not give any viable mix up options. After his first light, he can only light again or quick throw. Centurion lights aren't as hard to block as people make it out to be, and it's very easy to CGB. This is why people say that all of Centurion's strength comes from his heavies. His lights are fast but they don't do much damage. That's it. They really aren't much.

Also, Centurion does have an answer to Shinobi DD kick: trade with it. Centurion's heavies are fast enough to hit before the kick lands, and as long as you don't take too much damage beforehand you should come out on top. It's not a good answer, but it is the only answer (and frankly, I don't see many characters having a better option than that).

Alchemist..
06-06-2017, 12:04 PM
And don't forget that Centurion lights do not give any viable mix up options. After his first light, he can only light again or quick throw. Centurion lights aren't as hard to block as people make it out to be, and it's very easy to CGB. This is why people say that all of Centurion's strength comes from his heavies. His lights are fast but they don't do much damage. That's it. They really aren't much.

Also, Centurion does have an answer to Shinobi DD kick: trade with it. Centurion's heavies are fast enough to hit before the kick lands, and as long as you don't take too much damage beforehand you should come out on top. It's not a good answer, but it is the only answer (and frankly, I don't see many characters having a better option than that).
Yes, same thing i write on reddit, he is closed in light chains because he lack of light>heavy combo. On shinobi kick answer i mean if u dodge his kick is nothing to do, for example zerker can dodge light + top heavy after kick, its like half of shino hp, conq and warden can start badhing, kensei can dodge light + heavy, shugoki light + headbutt, warlord zone attack, all chars have good answer for his kick but cent can only dodge and wait for parry or throw a heavy and eat heavy whitch is bad option, he have only 20 hp more than shino, but shino can take a lot of your hp from gb or just light spam u.

Cent is just reverse designed, extremely good against bad/new players and extremely bad against good players, if he get a nerf to make him "normal" in overall play he need also big buff in other sides, right now i just coming back to kensei because playing cent is like not funny joke

CoyoteXStarrk
06-06-2017, 01:55 PM
Really??

You claim Centurion is fine. I point out how you dont even know the hero you talk about by referring to your recent posts, in which since then you did not get any more familiar vs him since you know.. you quit. Because all your claim is based on just dodge[tm], because you thought this hero is not capable of doing anything but kick / lunge and heavies. But of course you are wrong and this is just the way people who are at the bottom of skill plays him, which you also agree.

Then you try to grasp straws by claiming that balance IS done based on casuals. When it is obviously not as well as should not, and devs already said it is done based on top%7 mainly. Funniest part is you constantly have been one person who told people to git gud with any and every complaint they had, and here you are asking balance made based on people who dont even know how to use their hero. Go Figure!


At that point I dont even know why I am bothering to reply you at all.

*sigh*


1) In my personal opinion the Centurion IS fine.


2) I know the hero just fine actually. I got him to Rep1 level 12 with more than a 3.0 K/D before I put him back down in favor of my Beserker.


3) I say "Just Dodge" because thats literally all you have to do when you fight him. That or parry him.


4) I have no actual idea how they balance things I just assumed that like most games they take the data on popularity, kills, deaths, etc etc from the overall game and then proceeded from there. If not and they take data only from the higher tier of players then that is awesome I fully support that kind of data gathering.


5) Not once did I say that they SHOULD take data from casuals. I was only assuming they take data from the overall playerbase and the majority of every games playerbase is made up of casuals therefore in that situation the data would be based on mostly casual players like I assumed in my statement. That is 100% my bad for making an uninformed assumption, but instead of explaining the facts to me you just jumped on the insult me and try and make me look bad bandwagon like a child.


Next time you try and retort a post of mine actually try and READ it please rather than try and make dumb assumptions on what I am trying to say and try to put words in my mouth.


Better luck next time though I guess.

The_B0G_
06-06-2017, 02:32 PM
*sigh*


1) In my personal opinion the Centurion IS fine.


2) I know the hero just fine actually. I got him to Rep1 level 12 with more than a 3.0 K/D before I put him back down in favor of my Beserker.


3) I say "Just Dodge" because thats literally all you have to do when you fight him. That or parry him.


4) I have no actual idea how they balance things I just assumed that like most games they take the data on popularity, kills, deaths, etc etc from the overall game and then proceeded from there. If not and they take data only from the higher tier of players then that is awesome I fully support that kind of data gathering.


5) Not once did I say that they SHOULD take data from casuals. I was only assuming they take data from the overall playerbase and the majority of every games playerbase is made up of casuals therefore in that situation the data would be based on mostly casual players like I assumed in my statement. That is 100% my bad for making an uninformed assumption, but instead of explaining the facts to me you just jumped on the insult me and try and make me look bad bandwagon like a child.


Next time you try and retort a post of mine actually try and READ it please rather than try and make dumb assumptions on what I am trying to say and try to put words in my mouth.


Better luck next time though I guess.

This is for your 3rd point, you main the zerker, I played him throughout the beta and have him near rep 2 now, his dodge covers a lot of ground and he is very fast and has a good dodge+light attack that is very fast, he also has good openers that cover a lot of ground like the dodge forward and top light.

He's basically a perfect counter for the Cent with his fast attacks, movement and high damage. You have to understand where other people are coming from with slower characters.

I use LB mostly and his side dodge covers maybe 3 or 4 feet and has no quick attack for after the dodge, 1v1 with LB I can take most Cent's on and win, but once there are two Cent's my dodge doesn't cover enough ground to get me out of the way of both attacks, even my roll, which uses a lot of my stamina, doesn't get me out of range of his leaping stab.

So just because certain characters can "just dodge" doesn't mean they all can do that.

sgtpickles
06-06-2017, 03:46 PM
It's a bunch of people that pay no mind to their surroundings (tunnel vision 1v1) causing them to get hit by the charged heavy -> charged punch -> eagle's talon (first thing a Centurion learns and casuals spam to no end).

I have yet to get "heatseeked" by a Centurion unless I mistime a dodge. Warlord headbutt has similar tracking if you mistime a dodge. Centurion is arguably the most telegraphed character in the game. In addition, his punch and kick are so slow and easy to dodge. People just refuse to learn their opponent's habits and other character's toolkits.

I'm personally having fun putting Centurion/Shinobi gank squads in the Nobushi zone blender.

Devils-_-legacy
06-06-2017, 04:44 PM
Didn't u used to say this is a game of skill no one deserves a instant I win button ? 2 cent who only use stun lock vs (a casual) or (a experienced player) death they can even **** u in revenge mod cent is god

Knight_Raime
06-06-2017, 06:47 PM
Can you clarify what stun you are talking about?
Are you referring to when he pins someone?
or like. the stun when your screen goes white? (ex like raiders stunning tap.)

Because if you're saying the former that's entirely true his kit is around that.
if it's the latter i've talked about removing the blind effect or reducing it only on his kick.
Just because it doesn't actually aid him in any fashion. Lights are guarenteed off of a landed kick regardless of guard direction for either person or the enemies class.
and the blind effect doesn't help cover up the heavy coming afterwords since they slowed it down.

IMO it adds fake pressure that only messes up people who really don't understand how to play. The blind on the jab should stay though. Due to the nature of the jab.

AzureSky.
06-06-2017, 06:51 PM
To be honest i dont have problems with centurion in 1vs1 and 2vs2, the only problems i see is the amount of time he stuns you in 4vs4 gives his allies a lot of time to back him up, resulting in losing the fight even if you can beat him 1vs1 (if they friends didnt come)

he dont have any side attack or grab so you can vortex him to death with warden, also his kick is as bad as nobushis, you can just dodge and grab or hit him with lights.

He is like B rank, he has strenght but its very bad vs experienced players.

The_B0G_
06-06-2017, 06:52 PM
because turtles are cans and Centurion is the can opener, common sense really.

Ed: if a lawnmower/grass song analogy was usable though, this song would've been appropriate. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87aq-2M8ENQ)

I don't know what turtling has to do with my comment, I didn't mention it once. I fight pretty aggressive with my LB most of the time.

Slow dodging heroes doesn't make them a turtle, any class can turtle.

Duuklah
06-07-2017, 12:46 AM
I know people are gonna implode when they read the title, but its basic common sense. His kit is the opener to his knockdown combo and it is 100% reliant on his charged heavy.


His heavy attacks are so abysmally slow to charge up and get out that without the stun it would become one of the most easily parried moves in the game right up their with the Shugoki charged heavy.


For example whenever he uses the charged heavy attack he keeps the sword positioned while he charges in a way that is a dead giveaway of the direction its coming from. Even a half decent player can parry it or just avoid it with ease. The only reason it connects at all at this point is the fact that with the stun it makes it fairly hard to see where its coming from.


His entire kit is built around his reliance on the ability to stun people. Take that away and he is gonna be bottom tier garbage.



There are way better ways of balancing him out and I say all of this btw as a Beserker main.

The stun on the kick makes the charged heavy WAY to tough to parry and the results are WAY too punishing.

50% life and OOS.. FUN AND FAIR!

Antonioj26
06-07-2017, 12:55 AM
The stun on the kick makes the charged heavy WAY to tough to parry and the results are WAY too punishing.

50% life and OOS.. FUN AND FAIR!

Not really dude, I think you just need some duel practice with a buddy that plays centurion. His fully charged heavy unblockable is 1200ms. I don't know how the long the stun is for sure but I guarantee it's no more than 500ms and I doubt it's even that high.

The_B0G_
06-07-2017, 05:18 PM
most people who complain about Centurion either turtle or don't play aggressively enough, i play warden and can take Cents on pretty well in a 1v1 (athough i do play Cent as well and know most of the things he can throw at me so i guess i have an advantage over the general populace).

Yeah I guess I could go into practice mode to learn his limits, but I don't have much time to play, and have no interest in spending 15k to get him for pvp. Like I said earlier, in 1v1 I usually can take them on, but one mistake in 1v1 and you're pretty much toast.

1v2 against cents is usually just stun lock until dead, you dodge one cent's unblockable and the second cent hammers you with his, then back and forth until you're dead, even revenge doesn't stop it.

UbiNoty
06-08-2017, 01:31 AM
We did talk about it briefly on the last livestream about how we can't go around just removing big chunks of a hero's kit without either completely breaking them, or finding other ways to buff them.
In terms of balancing, it's not really the nerfing part that's difficult, it's finding ways to counterbalance the nerf that's really difficult. We are doing our best though to try to accommodate all your feedback and concerns.