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Neurodoom
06-04-2017, 01:21 AM
Hi there, i just wanted to share some thougths about the game with its ups and downs.

I bought the game first thinking "That looks like Souls series PvP, i'll really enjoy a game totally build around that idea, with better dinamics, latency and with nice graphics! and im also a big fan of fighting games, and THIS finally looks like a MMO fighting game!" and that came true, in a way, but after almost 200 hours i have a very different perspective of it right now.

We all know about the balance issues in the game, and that became more than obvious after S2 with the new heroes, but with the perspective of a fighting game in mind, you cannot ask for balance with all the heroes, they simply dont work that way, there are always heroes more "balanced" than others, and thats why we keep talking about tiers. But the thing is that For Honor still doesnt feel like a fighting game, it is more like Smash Brothers/Soul Calibur/Dark Souls/CoD thingy... Stay with me.

We have been asking for default guard change speed on all heroes since the beta, because, if this is a fighting game having some characters able to block faster than others is just madness. Damage can be variable, HP can be variable, Frames on attacks can be variable, but Blocking? whats the point? To create more variables, randomness and finally, to not decide every match with pure skill, because that keeps away casual players who will be always frustrated if matched vs some guy that has more hours in the game.

Same with feats. Whats the point in having a feat that can instakill 1 or 4 players? or the daaaaamn ZONE FLICKER that never gets patched! Add randomness.

And thats not a bad thing, most of us can relate with that night playing with friends some Smash, or Mario party, or hell, beer pong, and it was just incredibly fun! The problem cames when we try to match our expectations of the game with the REAL mechanics of this game.

Having a bad time getting ganked by 4 centurions in every other match? guess what, those 4 (400?) centurions are having a blast. Why did you think the new characters are that different from the base roster, and costs extra money? becausee they are supposed to be that way. Why its so obvious for all of us that the characters are so OP (after learning the new mechanics involved and gittin gud) but apparently not for the devs that MADE those characters? Because its not an error, that was the point from the begining.

If we keep expecting the game to be as balanced as a fighting game, i think we are really missing the point of this game. Thats why the tournaments have house rules, ban some characters, and after all that effort, you keep seeing the same 5 characters getting to the finals. Because duels avoid most of the random, but even so, only a few characters are really made to be used for that kind of gameplay.

So, i think that if we play the game as it is, we could deal with the "problems" that will come with every new season with way less salt. :)

Antonioj26
06-04-2017, 01:56 AM
Hi there, i just wanted to share some thougths about the game with its ups and downs.

I bought the game first thinking "That looks like Souls series PvP, i'll really enjoy a game totally build around that idea, with better dinamics, latency and with nice graphics! and im also a big fan of fighting games, and THIS finally looks like a MMO fighting game!" and that came true, in a way, but after almost 200 hours i have a very different perspective of it right now.

We all know about the balance issues in the game, and that became more than obvious after S2 with the new heroes, but with the perspective of a fighting game in mind, you cannot ask for balance with all the heroes, they simply dont work that way, there are always heroes more "balanced" than others, and thats why we keep talking about tiers. But the thing is that For Honor still doesnt feel like a fighting game, it is more like Smash Brothers/Soul Calibur/Dark Souls/CoD thingy... Stay with me.

We have been asking for default guard change speed on all heroes since the beta, because, if this is a fighting game having some characters able to block faster than others is just madness. Damage can be variable, HP can be variable, Frames on attacks can be variable, but Blocking? whats the point? To create more variables, randomness and finally, to not decide every match with pure skill, because that keeps away casual players who will be always frustrated if matched vs some guy that has more hours in the game.

Same with feats. Whats the point in having a feat that can instakill 1 or 4 players? or the daaaaamn ZONE FLICKER that never gets patched! Add randomness.

And thats not a bad thing, most of us can relate with that night playing with friends some Smash, or Mario party, or hell, beer pong, and it was just incredibly fun! The problem cames when we try to match our expectations of the game with the REAL mechanics of this game.

Having a bad time getting ganked by 4 centurions in every other match? guess what, those 4 (400?) centurions are having a blast. Why did you think the new characters are that different from the base roster, and costs extra money? becausee they are supposed to be that way. Why its so obvious for all of us that the characters are so OP (after learning the new mechanics involved and gittin gud) but apparently not for the devs that MADE those characters? Because its not an error, that was the point from the begining.

If we keep expecting the game to be as balanced as a fighting game, i think we are really missing the point of this game. Thats why the tournaments have house rules, ban some characters, and after all that effort, you keep seeing the same 5 characters getting to the finals. Because duels avoid most of the random, but even so, only a few characters are really made to be used for that kind of gameplay.

So, i think that if we play the game as it is, we could deal with the "problems" that will come with every new season with way less salt. :)

The problem with the game being unbalanced is it makes the game boring because people are going to pick the best characters. That creates a lack of variety which makes the game stale and repetitive. The recent influx of cents and shins in 4v4 isn't only attributed to being new, it's also because they excel.

KyleTessada
06-04-2017, 02:05 AM
As stated, in every game there is always stronger and weaker characters. That old mantra Wizard>Knight>Archer>Wizard.
If there was truly "Balance" no one would win. What fun would that be? Every character has strengths and weaknesses.

Antonioj26
06-04-2017, 02:12 AM
As stated, in every game there is always stronger and weaker characters. That old mantra Wizard>Knight>Archer>Wizard.
If there was truly "Balance" no one would win. What fun would that be? Every character has strengths and weaknesses.

No such thing as true balance but trying to get as close as possible is good for a games health. When there's 4 cents and 4 shins only in every game it makes it stale. What if it was wizards>>>>>>>archer=warrior=rogue? Well you'll see that most people will just pick the wizards. I want archers warriors and rogues to play too.

kweassa1917
06-04-2017, 02:34 AM
The problem with the game being unbalanced is it makes the game boring because people are going to pick the best characters. That creates a lack of variety which makes the game stale and repetitive. The recent influx of cents and shins in 4v4 isn't only attributed to being new, it's also because they excel.

That's not what I'm seeing. I see a good variety of every class, albeit not equally common, but still plentiful enough. You see cents and shibs in a team in every match? How's that different from seeing PKs, Wardens, and Lawbs(dunno, why, but they're always there) in every team, every match before 1.07?

Empirically, if I pick out the most common classes I see these days it would be:


Abundant: almost in ever match
● Centurion
● Shinobi
● Lawbringer
● Orochi
● Warlord

Common:at the least every other match
● Warden
● Peacekeeper
● Nobushi

Normal: maybe one or two around every 5 matches
● Valkyrie
● Raider
● Kensei

Rare: maybe one or two around every 10 matches
● Conqueror
● Berserker
● Shugoki


This is from the top of my head, but I can make you a bet that I'd go play any night's game for a couple of hourse for a week, write down the number of classes I've met including mine, and the demographics would turn out similar to what I've written above. I'd even go so far as to say if the devs released their charts it'd also be similar. Of 14 classes around half can be seen quite commonly regardless of how people evaluate their tier.

And from since beginning of season two I've had only TWO matches I've ever seen 3 cents or 3 shibs in one team, and only ONCE I've seen all four players on a team being all cents or all shibs.

KyleTessada
06-04-2017, 03:04 AM
Well I have yet to be put in a match facing 4 Cent. yet. Not saying it doesn't happen but it's not that often apparently.
On a side note, and Archer is generally a Rouge. Just saying.

Antonioj26
06-04-2017, 03:12 AM
Well I have yet to be put in a match facing 4 Cent. yet. Not saying it doesn't happen but it's not that often apparently.
On a side note, and Archer is generally a Rouge. Just saying.

I sincerly doubt thats true or you are incredbily lucky. I havent played 4s lately because of the cent onslaught but I'd put money on me catching 4 cents within the first 5 matches If I hop on right now. Regarding your side note, see world of warcraft.

bmason1000
06-04-2017, 03:52 AM
I sincerly doubt thats true or you are incredbily lucky. I havent played 4s lately because of the cent onslaught but I'd put money on me catching 4 cents within the first 5 matches If I hop on right now. Regarding your side note, see world of warcraft.

I play daily and have never seen a team of 4 cents. Also the cent population seems to be declining.

Antonioj26
06-04-2017, 03:56 AM
I play daily and have never seen a team of 4 cents. Also the cent population seems to be declining.

not saying a team of 4 cents, im saying 4 cents total

KyleTessada
06-04-2017, 04:02 AM
not saying a team of 4 cents, im saying 4 cents total

Reading comprehension. ..

Antonioj26
06-04-2017, 04:07 AM
Reading comprehension. ..

relax there guy, I understand you are still bitter about me callling you dumb a few days ago but no need to be kunty.

bmason1000
06-04-2017, 04:36 AM
Well I have yet to be put in a match facing 4 Cent. yet. Not saying it doesn't happen but it's not that often apparently.
On a side note, and Archer is generally a Rouge. Just saying.


I sincerly doubt thats true or you are incredbily lucky. I havent played 4s lately because of the cent onslaught but I'd put money on me catching 4 cents within the first 5 matches If I hop on right now. Regarding your side note, see world of warcraft.


I play daily and have never seen a team of 4 cents. Also the cent population seems to be declining.


not saying a team of 4 cents, im saying 4 cents total


Reading comprehension. ..

So he definitely said "facing 4 cents," which would imply an enemy team of 4 centurions. My comprehension is fine, thank you. But if we're talking 4 total them yeah i completely agree. 1 in 3 dominion games minimum has 4 centurions. Sometimes all 3 games haha.

Antonioj26
06-04-2017, 04:49 AM
So he definitely said "facing 4 cents," which would imply an enemy team of 4 centurions. My comprehension is fine, thank you. But if we're talking 4 total them yeah i completely agree. 1 in 3 dominion games minimum has 4 centurions. Sometimes all 3 games haha.

Sorry when I said the quote "not saying a team of 4 cents, im saying 4 cents total" I meant personally that im not saying a team of 4 cents when I wrote my post before his. Really what it comes down to is me missing one word and having the idea of 4 cents total in my head since thats what I meant in my post and tessada still having lingering feelings of salt so gets a bit of an attitude when I screw up. So lets just move past this and get back to the topic itself.

Pillow_Hands
06-04-2017, 04:53 AM
So if this supposed to be some bro game like Smash bros, meaning balance shouldn't matter ever, does that mean we all should be investing in axe body spray?

Neurodoom
06-04-2017, 05:44 AM
So if this supposed to be some bro game like Smash bros, meaning balance shouldn't matter ever, does that mean we all should be investing in axe body spray?

lol, i just think that we are evaluating the game as something that its not. Just imagine somebody ranting about Smash going like "OMG you cant take this game seriously! its chaos, with all those stupid OP moves, and LOOK i got ledged AGAIN! nobody plays with honor in here!". You dont, you dont take smash seriously, its not supposed to be a serious balanced game, its a party game. But the player base in for honor and even the devs are trying really hard for it to be seen as an e-sport game, and it can be for sure, at least the duel mode, but its never gonna be like Street Fighter 3 or CS:GO, so, just take it as it is.

Minus some obvious exploits as the one hit KO warden, seems like the game its working as intended \_(ツ)_/

Antonioj26
06-04-2017, 05:51 AM
lol, i just think that we are evaluating the game as something that its not. Just imagine somebody ranting about Smash going like "OMG you cant take this game seriously! its chaos, with all those stupid OP moves, and LOOK i got ledged AGAIN! nobody plays with honor in here!". You dont, you dont take smash seriously, its not supposed to be a serious balanced game, its a party game. But the player base in for honor and even the devs are trying really hard for it to be seen as an e-sport game, and it can be for sure, at least the duel mode, but its never gonna be like Street Fighter 3 or CS:GO, so, just take it as it is.

Minus some obvious exploits as the one hit KO warden, seems like the game its working as intended \_(ツ)_/

I don't think people are trying to see it as an esports game, I think people just don't want there to be a gigantic gap in between the characters. I'm really not sure what your gripe is with this.

Neurodoom
06-06-2017, 04:01 AM
No gripe, just sharing some thoughts because i see more and more people raging about something in the game like the centurions/shinobis/pks/wardens/flicker, and i think that if you look the whole picture you will realize that they are no mistakes in balance, and they are working as intended minus some adjustments.

See the CC from centurion, its not the kick, its not the jab, or the stun, is the center of the heroe combo that makes him so powerful on 4v4, they put an animation that disables your character for like 3 seconds, thats cool looking playing 1v1, but having that animation in a 4v4 is just instant death. But what are they going to do? remove it?
Obivously not,

Same with shinobi kick, and so many other things that many players think that are game breaking (game breaking in a fighting game), but at the end they dont get patched, because i think they are working as intended by the devs.

Netcode_err_404
06-06-2017, 04:08 AM
I play daily and have never seen a team of 4 cents. Also the cent population seems to be declining.

http://prntscr.com/fgdzfd


Indeed

MasterChiefPON
06-06-2017, 04:29 AM
http://prntscr.com/fgdzfd


Indeed

Two Kensei in a match of 5 Centurion and 1 Shinobi, brave souls...

Jokes aside, I still see teams with 2 or 3 Centurion or Shinobi but a lot less than when Season 2 started. Ganking capabilities still the same though.

Antonioj26
06-06-2017, 05:17 PM
No gripe, just sharing some thoughts because i see more and more people raging about something in the game like the centurions/shinobis/pks/wardens/flicker, and i think that if you look the whole picture you will realize that they are no mistakes in balance, and they are working as intended minus some adjustments.

See the CC from centurion, its not the kick, its not the jab, or the stun, is the center of the heroe combo that makes him so powerful on 4v4, they put an animation that disables your character for like 3 seconds, thats cool looking playing 1v1, but having that animation in a 4v4 is just instant death. But what are they going to do? remove it?
Obivously not,

Same with shinobi kick, and so many other things that many players think that are game breaking (game breaking in a fighting game), but at the end they dont get patched, because i think they are working as intended by the devs.

Okay but then they make it so it doesn't make sense to use any other characters in 4v4 since centurion clearly dominates and shinobi clearly dominates 1v1. So again I don't understand the problem with wanting balance in the game to create variety

Netcode_err_404
06-06-2017, 05:23 PM
Two Kensei in a match of 5 Centurion and 1 Shinobi, brave souls...

Jokes aside, I still see teams with 2 or 3 Centurion or Shinobi but a lot less than when Season 2 started. Ganking capabilities still the same though.

thats because most of the players already quit the game. Again.

Neurodoom
06-06-2017, 08:09 PM
Okay but then they make it so it doesn't make sense to use any other characters in 4v4 since centurion clearly dominates and shinobi clearly dominates 1v1. So again I don't understand the problem with wanting balance in the game to create variety

Thats the "Thing" with for honor that im talking about man, you cant have balance with the base structure of the game as it is (Random speed blocking, Feats, super obscure Gear stats, etc) . Remember before the S2 chars? the warden vortex? the pk lights? the zone flicker? the warlord headbutt spam?etc. Thats what im talking about man, the game doest have balance since the begining, and its not in the plans to have balance at all, because: balance game = high skill game = less casual player base. You cannot invest in a AAA game to snub the casual gamers, and season 2 made it very clear to me, EVERYTHING that we were ranting about the kits of the base characters, they gave it to the new characters, and better (or worst)!

You can see more about this random vs skill in fighting games with all the controversy about SFV

Antonioj26
06-06-2017, 08:12 PM
Thats the "Thing" with for honor that im talking about man, you cant have balance with the base structure of the game as it is (Random speed blocking, Feats, super obscure Gear stats, etc) . Remember before the S2 chars? the warden vortex? the pk lights? the zone flicker? the warlord headbutt spam?etc. Thats what im talking about man, the game doest have balance since the begining, and its not in the plans to have balance at all, because: balance game = high skill game = less casual player base. You cannot invest in a AAA game to snub the casual gamers, and season 2 made it very clear to me, EVERYTHING that we were ranting about the kits of the base characters, they gave it to the new characters, and better (or worst)!

You can see more about this random vs skill in fighting games with all the controversy about SFV

So the devs shoUld just say fck it and let the game be dominated by these two characters? Okey

DrExtrem
06-06-2017, 09:06 PM
The first big problem of this game is, that it is neither competitive nor casual.

The second one is, that it can not gather strength from this circumstance. Both factions are let down.

The heroes move sets are (mostly) simple but the timings and mechanics make the game hard to get into.

New and lower end players will get obliterated and lose their interest in the game fast, while competitive and high lever players master it fast and get thirsty for more.

Both types of players and all in between, are stuck together in a standard environment.

The game should have two or three environments for low, mid and high level players. The difference would be the heroes movesets and mm-ques. Simple movesets for beginners or less talented players, advanced movesets for intermediates and complicated ones for pros. Everybody would have been a lot happier but now, it is too late. The player base has become to small and splitting it up even more, would be disastrous.

Its too competitive to be suited gor a broader audience and too casual, to attract and bind higher skilled ones.

Neurodoom
06-07-2017, 02:25 AM
The first big problem of this game is, that it is neither competitive nor casual.

The second one is, that it can not gather strength from this circumstance. Both factions are let down.

The heroes move sets are (mostly) simple but the timings and mechanics make the game hard to get into.

New and lower end players will get obliterated and lose their interest in the game fast, while competitive and high lever players master it fast and get thirsty for more.

Both types of players and all in between, are stuck together in a standard environment.

The game should have two or three environments for low, mid and high level players. The difference would be the heroes movesets and mm-ques. Simple movesets for beginners or less talented players, advanced movesets for intermediates and complicated ones for pros. Everybody would have been a lot happier but now, it is too late. The player base has become to small and splitting it up even more, would be disastrous.

Its too competitive to be suited gor a broader audience and too casual, to attract and bind higher skilled ones.

Agree, and dont get me wrong, we can still expect some "polishing" of the game, some of the dynamics on it can be adjusted, like those changed made to shugoki and some of the nerfs to the pk, but the game its built around so many random elements that you can only dream for real fighting game balance.

YuBiShiGouShi
06-07-2017, 02:41 AM
It's so funny that you guys are really expecting them to fix this game. It is not generating enough revenue for them to invest the amount of time and man hours that it will take to fix it. It also did not do well enough in sales for them to account for the funds either. I mean yeah they could have a 5-10 man team work on it but how long would that last before nobody is even playing it?