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View Full Version : What improvements in 3D graphics can we expect in Far Cry 5?



Nitrotoluene
06-02-2017, 08:26 AM
I really appreciate the Ubisoft graphic artists. Those people are geniuses. How they can cram so much beauty and seamless, non-repetitive realism into the terrain, scenery and animation, yet still manage to make the games so fluid? It's beyond my understanding.

As examples, I noticed in going from Far Cry 3 to FC4, and then to Ghost Recon Wild Lands the level-of-detail transitions in objects and textures got progressively more subtle to the point where there is hardly any "popping" of the LOD's in Ghost Recon. Similarly, fine details such as small rocks, bumps and hollows in the ground seemed to improve from pseudo-3D texture effects (produced by normal maps) in FC3 to actual 3D at the scale of pebbles in Ghost Recon. How on earth is it possible to render so many polygons without slowing the game to a slideshow?

I suppose most gamers are more concerned with story line, gameplay or character development and take the graphics for granted, but I would dearly love to know how Ubisoft manage to pull off this magic, even it's just a general description of the techniques they use. I realise they are probably closely-guarded secrets, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

And I wonder how much further they've pushed things in Far Cry 5? Without knowing the 'how', it would still be nice to know 'what' to look forward to.

:o

mistados
06-02-2017, 08:56 AM
Well given what we have seen thus far, the world looks suitably detailed.

HorTyS
06-02-2017, 09:33 AM
I'm much more of a gameplay > graphics guy, but FC5 looked distinctly improved upon in the graphics dept to me...

mistados
06-02-2017, 10:58 AM
4K 60Hz is unlikely :D

BackPa-CZ
06-02-2017, 02:04 PM
4K 60Hz is unlikely :D

With two TitanXP it will possible, i think :D

Helforsite
06-02-2017, 02:08 PM
4K 60Hz is unlikely :D

Yeah, but thats the case for all modern games if you use the highest settings^^

akilyoung
06-02-2017, 03:01 PM
Im big in graphics and have been waiting for the Dunia engine to catch back up with the Cryengine it is based off of...I dont have high hopes for that. And you cant compare FC to GR, they are on different engines, so graphics wont be the same.

I expect incremental changes, as there have always been on the dunia engine. Expect slightly better graphics than Primal, or maybe even the same.

Now that Dunia is using full support for Speedtree middleware, for grass, bushes and trees, it made it look a lot better and run a little smoother.

The lighting got a lot better in Primal, so expect those changes.

Textures are still ehhhh, hope those change to higher res.

The biggest changes Ubi can make would be in a better terrain modeling tools.

I also expect a massive amount of assets in game, in general. Lots of little items, trinkets, etc. The pictures ive seen seem to support that, so things like that add detail.

And as ive said before, they need to really work on their GRASS modeling!

Look at GTAV, thats the best grass ever in a game, because they use parallax modeling, it just works well! We dont need grass 8' high blowing around. it hurts the performance too!

strigoi1958
06-02-2017, 04:11 PM
I'm much more of a gameplay > graphics guy, but FC5 looked distinctly improved upon in the graphics dept to me...

This ^^

Although I really appreciate the amount of work and attention to detail that the graphic artists (and the sound engineers) put into games nowadays... the game must be fun to play. The gameplay should be the top priority because no matter how good looking, a game that is not enjoyable is not worth the money.

Generally, (as mentioned) graphic improvements damage performance.... Which Nvidia, AMD, Sony and Microsoft must love :) I think there was maybe 5 years between the 1st and 2nd xbox version (probably the same with the playstation) but now as soon as they release one, they are already working on a Pro or a 4k or whatever the next version is..... people have to own multiple consoles and/or own multiple copies of the same game to be able to play them. PC owners on a budget are being left behind because of minimum required specs that can jump quickly....

I have seen too many bad performance/ FPS threads where people think if their pc runs 1 game at ultra settings and get 60 FPS then every game should run the same... or they have to wait a year to upgrade to play.

Unless game makers adapt (where possible) things like parallax modelling (thanks @akilyoung for the perfect example) that improve graphics without damaging performance, we will forever be paying for graphics just to play the game.

Nitrotoluene
06-03-2017, 12:52 AM
Setting aside gameplay, costs etc, I'd like to stay focused on the graphics question.

Can someone explain what 'parallax modelling' is? How does it work, what effect does it have?

I'm wondering if that's the technique they used in FC4 to make the broken bricks on the roof surface of the Rochan Brick Factory behave as if they were actual 3D objects? Same for the stones in the walls of many of the houses. You look at the walls from an oblique angle and see each individual stone kind of stretching back into the wall as if it was actual 3D.

Is there any website where the game- or game engine developers talk (or brag) about the latest advancements they have implemented?

Nitrotoluene
06-03-2017, 01:24 AM
Thanks for that video, it explains the effect very nicely. So that must be how they made the mountain backgrounds work in FC4, which is something else I always wondered about.

It clearly isn't the technique used to create the '3D' stones in house walls, or the brick fragments I mentioned in my previous (now edited) post. Any clues on that?

usmovers_02
06-03-2017, 03:10 AM
I'm almost certain what he's referring to is parallax and not tessellation. I know the stone walls at least are parallax.

Nitrotoluene
06-03-2017, 03:15 AM
Whatever it is, it's an amazing effect.

.

usmovers_02
06-03-2017, 05:32 AM
We're taking about a 2d plane that appears 3d right? If so that's parallax. If we're taking about a low res 3d model that becomes high res when you get close that's tessellation.

mistados
06-03-2017, 07:20 AM
As long as it doesn't look like Minecraft I think we're good :D

Nitrotoluene
06-03-2017, 12:16 PM
Here's an example of what I mean.

The far right-hand edge of this stone wall is a straight line, which means the 3D-looking stones are just some fancy texture on a flat plane.

The stones not facing directly at the camera have visible sides apparently projecting back into the wall. They look really 3D and are much more convincing than regular normal map textures. In addition (and it's hard to see in this picture) if the camera is looking at the wall very obliquely, the stones close to the camera partly block the projected sides of the stones further away from the camera - just like real 3D stones in a wall would.

Apart from the straight line edge, about the only other tell-tale sign that this is a texture effect is that the sides of each stone appear to be smeared from the front edges back into the gaps between the rocks.

So is that parallax modelling, tessellation or something else? Whatever it is, it's saving billions of mesh polygons and years of modelling time for the developers. Very impressive and for me, mysterious.

http://i570.photobucket.com/albums/ss147/deane_tunaley/FarCry4-2017-6-3-20-48-15a.jpg~original

akilyoung
06-03-2017, 03:00 PM
Im talking about parallax, not tessellation.

Parallax takes a stack of 2d images, animated or not, and makes them look 3d, even though they are still just a flat stack of 2d slices. So the engine isnt rendering polygons.

If done right, the effect looks amazing and real, but saves an immense amount of system resources.

GTAV did this so masterfully with the mowed grasses and bushes in the residential areas, as well as other areas.

Heres a look at some simple longer grass using the effect, that could look great in FC:

https://youtu.be/xqDTa2FpkIk

usmovers_02
06-04-2017, 02:37 PM
I've used euclidean. In its current state it is simply not ready for video games in a large scale. Perhaps for some small parts of games but the available tech demos are not up to par graphically.

Nitrotoluene
06-05-2017, 01:02 AM
Would be nice to hear some official word from Ubisoft on this topic.

RaZoRFINNISH
06-05-2017, 06:16 AM
Im talking about parallax, not tessellation.

Parallax takes a stack of 2d images, animated or not, and makes them look 3d, even though they are still just a flat stack of 2d slices. So the engine isnt rendering polygons.

If done right, the effect looks amazing and real, but saves an immense amount of system resources.

GTAV did this so masterfully with the mowed grasses and bushes in the residential areas, as well as other areas.

Heres a look at some simple longer grass using the effect, that could look great in FC:

https://youtu.be/xqDTa2FpkIk

Parallax Occlusion Mapping (as seen on the Far Cry 4 stone wall image) is separate, a short explanation to it's working mechanism would be using ray-tracing through a separate texture channel that works as a surface height map until you find the "best" (e.g. as close as possible with the given sample count) pixel that the ray intersects with, then sampling the albedo / reflectivity / smoothness / normal at coordinates at the intersection offset.

It's a technique that is unsuitable for any complex geometry too, given the assumption the algorithm makes with the texture residing on a projected plane during tracing. Another shortcoming is the requirement for insane sample counts for grazing angles to prevent artifacts, rising exponentially as you get closer to a 90 degree angle between the view direction and the surface normal. I have mixed opinions on POM in general, some games use it sparingly and well, while some look like a horrible flickering mess because of it, and more often than not when a game heavily (ab)uses it, it is not a pleasant experience.

nyrue
06-05-2017, 09:59 AM
yo the detection system in ghost recon wild lands was absolutely amazing I would hope you would bring some of those aspects to far cry 5, like how you can be detected by an enemy or several enemies but if you take them out fast enough the whole dam camp isn't alerted, that was seriously amazing, and better stealth in general

scrapser
06-10-2017, 03:13 PM
I think graphics have reached a high enough standard that game developers can now go back to making really great games and not just really great graphics. What do we really need here...holographs before people will give it a rest?

usmovers_02
06-10-2017, 03:19 PM
I think graphics have reached a high enough standard that game developers can now go back to making really great games and not just really great graphics. What do we really need here...holographs before people will give it a rest?

What's wrong with pushing graphics forward? There is plenty of room for them to noticeably improve. Also I think games are getting better and better each year.

scrapser
06-10-2017, 08:33 PM
What's wrong with pushing graphics forward? There is plenty of room for them to noticeably improve. Also I think games are getting better and better each year.

There's nothing wrong with good graphics. The issue I have is how so many people equate good graphics with realism in general and put so much praise on them. The companies latch on to what people talk about the most. It's another example of, "The squeakiest wheel gets the grease." So stop talking about the graphics and focus on good game mechanics, design structure, story originality and things like that. The graphics will always be improving...the hardware developers will see to that or else they lose cash flow and/or market share. It's really simple when you think it through.

usmovers_02
06-11-2017, 06:19 AM
Take a look at the main page and tell me how many topics are about graphics ;)

scrapser
06-19-2017, 12:28 AM
Take a look at the main page and tell me how many topics are about graphics ;)

With respect I just looked out my window and don't see any rain so I guess there's no rain falling anywhere. That's not scientific and neither is your post. There is a lot of discussion about the quality of game graphics not just with Far Cry games but all games in general. That is the context of my point. It would be so great to see the emphasis shift over to game design instead of the graphics. If enough people did that the developers would take notice.

As an example, take the main problem Ubisoft has been dealing with since FC2 was released...how to keep a sandbox game interesting as you move through the story and clear the map.

phxrider
08-02-2017, 08:36 PM
yo the detection system in ghost recon wild lands was absolutely amazing I would hope you would bring some of those aspects to far cry 5, like how you can be detected by an enemy or several enemies but if you take them out fast enough the whole dam camp isn't alerted, that was seriously amazing, and better stealth in general

Yes!!! Not graphics related, but it would be nice if one enemy seeing you for a split second at the far end of an outpost didn't result in every nearby enemy instantly knowing your exact position! GRW does this really well.

Gr4nt8r0dy
08-03-2017, 02:26 AM
i want to see the improve the gore graphix let us blow off heads with the sniper or blow some one in to chunks with a rpg and chop off heads with a meshetey

HorTyS
08-03-2017, 07:45 AM
i want to see the improve the gore graphix let us blow off heads with the sniper or blow some one in to chunks with a rpg and chop off heads with a meshetey

Now this guy's speakin' my language, even if he's not spelling it correctly! More gore would be welcome indeed. The game is for sure gonna have an M rating, may as well take full advantage of it...

Farcryisdead
08-03-2017, 08:38 AM
The thing i noticed about far cry 5, is the colours really pop.

HorTyS
08-03-2017, 04:31 PM
The thing i noticed about far cry 5, is the colours really pop.

It does seem to have a wider, more vibrant color palette. FC2 was very tan/ light brown, FC3 was very, very green with the jungle and grasslands on the 2nd island. FC4 just didn't have a lot of variety in the colors, it seemed both northern & southern maps were all pine-foresty. FC5 already looks like it has some lush open fields and farmland with mountain forests, but also meadows and birch trees growing along rivers & all of which seem to contribute to colors overall having more variety to them.

just look at these side by sides:

http://i.imgur.com/AhD4YYMm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/zzIh3p8m.png

http://i.imgur.com/uSOzBRFm.jpg http://i.imgur.com/WAKBF0Sm.jpg

Wider color variety is pretty clear I think....

akilyoung
08-03-2017, 04:46 PM
I think that beyond the wider palette, its the contrast that makes it more varied. FC5 seems to have a much darker contrast, which is pretty accurate for that 'thin atmosphere' look in the sky that you get at high altitude.

I live close to Lake Tahoe in Ca. When I drive up there (I think its something around 7-8k feet) the sky looks WAY different. There is a certain kind of clarity in the atmosphere, hard to explain. The sun beats down HARD, you literally feel it burning your skin and clothes in the summer on a clear day, even if its not that hot.

Its the weirdest thing. There is just something different about being up at altitude, its like a different world.

fourheadedgoat
08-05-2017, 09:20 AM
A bit late to the party, but it seems those 2d textures are parallax/parallax occlusion-or something. I 'dunno, but I found this., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnBcnhnOi9o
Also, Far Cry 4 is a very dark game, by contrast each blade of grass in FC V is lit-like in RDR2.

akilyoung
08-05-2017, 02:25 PM
I dont think thats FC5 but I could be wrong. Also I am not sure why its labeled parralax, cause it just looks like tessalation to me, but I am not a game designer...