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View Full Version : Ubi, why u brake Raider?



razabak10mm
06-02-2017, 05:31 AM
He's broke with the new heros. Speed wins the day on console and there's just no hope with anyone thats competent at all.

I think the "buffs" we got would have helped in s1, but right now they seem like a very small consolation. You unleashed Cent and Shin on us and gave us no tools to counter.

I constantly watch my axe pass through guys with no damage done, but somehow they can curveball around a colum to get a hit? Yup it's frustrating.

You changed the game and now only moves too fast to react to on console are any good. Raider has been left in the dust.

The eternal light of the axe hump is dimming.

Lyskir
06-02-2017, 10:33 AM
it must be hell on console with a slow hero...i feel u man

everything a raider does can simply be interrupted with a light attack, every feint, unblockable and heavy u have to parry lights with 30 fps and slow *** guard change speed^^

If you really want to fight seriously, then all the heroes are trash if they have no: super fast lights+ unblockable spam,

Epoqx
06-02-2017, 11:34 AM
What i just read is a real joke !

Raider just got a really nice buff, and he is no more bottom tier.

Btw, you can do really well with every champ, until really high level, where you will hit a wall. But until then, every single champ of the game can rape any one in the roster.

Lyskir
06-02-2017, 11:43 AM
What i just read is a real joke !

Raider just got a really nice buff, and he is no more bottom tier.

Btw, you can do really well with every champ, until really high level, where you will hit a wall. But until then, every single champ of the game can rape any one in the roster.

i can only speak for pc and hes in the same place as valk and other mid tier heroes, not good but also not trash but it must be worse on console cause speed is more op with 30 fps

Epoqx
06-02-2017, 11:57 AM
Im on xbox, and honestly, even if it is hard to counter PK and Shin (valk is really much more manageable, due to more rewarding blocks against her, and larger animations), it is blockable and parryable. But you need to be 120 % in the game.
Still, 2 chars out of 14 with some really fast attacks, isn't the most unbalanced thing ever, even for consoles.
I do not count centurion fast lights either, because of the exact same animations between lights compared to the 2 above, and the fact that a light does not guarantees a second super fast light neither (the third one of the combo being even slower).

As i see the balance between chars right now, there are much more characters in the middle tier than the top tier, meaning that the top ones should be nerfed to egalize the middle tier level ones.

Lyskir
06-02-2017, 12:30 PM
Im on xbox, and honestly, even if it is hard to counter PK and Shin (valk is really much more manageable, due to more rewarding blocks against her, and larger animations), it is blockable and parryable. But you need to be 120 % in the game.
Still, 2 chars out of 14 with some really fast attacks, isn't the most unbalanced thing ever, even for consoles.
I do not count centurion fast lights either, because of the exact same animations between lights compared to the 2 above, and the fact that a light does not guarantees a second super fast light neither (the third one of the combo being even slower).

As i see the balance between chars right now, there are much more characters in the middle tier than the top tier, meaning that the top ones should be nerfed to egalize the middle tier level ones.

agree but they sayed the samurai heroes will get buffs so i hope they dont add unblockable **** to them....

Temjinyuy
06-02-2017, 01:41 PM
He's broke with the new heros. Speed wins the day on console and there's just no hope with anyone thats competent at all.

I think the "buffs" we got would have helped in s1, but right now they seem like a very small consolation. You unleashed Cent and Shin on us and gave us no tools to counter.

I constantly watch my axe pass through guys with no damage done, but somehow they can curveball around a colum to get a hit? Yup it's frustrating.

You changed the game and now only moves too fast to react to on console are any good. Raider has been left in the dust.

The eternal light of the axe hump is dimming.

What?

Raider can cream both Cent and Shib. Dodge and stun tap and then let begin the carnage :)

razabak10mm
06-02-2017, 05:10 PM
Here's the thing, it's not like playing as a raider you can't get any kills or get mowed down like the Warden glitch attack. There's always going to be people you can beat, and beat hard.

You run into problems when the player has any skill at all. I'm not talking about top tier MLG pro guys. I mean anyone that can block or counter AT ALL. Our attacks are so slow and telegraphed that anyone but the worst players can easily counter.

We need something to break it up like an uninterruptible, and something to close ranks when other players stand back out of range and poke poke poke. Maybe just a bit more mobility on dodges or something.

Also why is our ZA so easily dodged when things like valk sweep are not? I'm constantly seeing my axe pass through ppl with no effect.

BeefMan_
06-02-2017, 05:12 PM
What? Your character was buffed into the A-tier and you still think he isn't able to hold his own against these new heroes?

BeefMan_
06-02-2017, 05:14 PM
Here's the thing, it's not like playing as a raider you can't get any kills or get mowed down like the Warden glitch attack. There's always going to be people you can beat, and beat hard.

You run into problems when the player has any skill at all. I'm not talking about top tier MLG pro guys. I mean anyone that can block or counter AT ALL. Our attacks are so slow and telegraphed that anyone but the worst players can easily counter.

We need something to break it up like an uninterruptible, and something to close ranks when other players stand back out of range and poke poke poke. Maybe just a bit more mobility on dodges or something.

Also why is our ZA so easily dodged when things like valk sweep are not? I'm constantly seeing my axe pass through ppl with no effect.

You can flicker all of your heavies into a stunning 500ms light attack, which is barely reactable on console.
Also, Valk's sweep is glitched. If you get hit by the second light in her chain, you can't dodge the sweep.

razabak10mm
06-02-2017, 05:23 PM
So we have stunning tap that does minimal damage? Then what? Launch into a light combo that a snail riding a sloth could react to?

BeefMan_
06-02-2017, 05:34 PM
So we have stunning tap that does minimal damage? Then what? Launch into a light combo that a snail riding a sloth could react to?

Your character is immune to GBs
Has 1 (one) safe parryable attack, which needs to be parried on prediction.
Has a 4-way exhaust mixup from his zone, 2 of which result in a 90 damage punish if your opponent guesses wrong
Can flicker all of his heavies into a stunning light attack
Has a carrying charge attack
High damage
Good range

And redditors still have the nerve to call Raider B or C-tier because he has an average guard switch speed and a bad GB punish

razabak10mm
06-02-2017, 05:44 PM
I'll give you high damage, that's when we can land an attack. God knows how easy that is with teleporting shins dancing around you.

Good range? Nope.

Also you forgot axe hump. That's totally OP, not sure how they haven't nerfed it yet.

Antonioj26
06-02-2017, 05:45 PM
Your character is immune to GBs
Has 1 (one) safe parryable attack, which needs to be parried on prediction.
Has a 4-way exhaust mixup from his zone, 2 of which result in a 90 damage punish if your opponent guesses wrong
Can flicker all of his heavies into a stunning light attack
Has a carrying charge attack
High damage
Good range

And redditors still have the nerve to call Raider B or C-tier because he has an average guard switch speed and a bad GB punish

1. no he is not, maybe dash gb but not parries
2. if you meaning stunning tap thats reactable and isnt safe especially if you get parried you are now OOS or damn near.
3. If he guesses wrong one of the options can do that much damage, the other does 28 or 50 if you can space it correctly.
4. who cares
5.true his damage is phenomenal when he can hit you
6. not really.

If hes not B tier then you must place him in A because theres no way you can consider him S. So out of curiosity what is your tier list or at least list to the point from top to bottom where raider sits.

Knight_Gregor
06-02-2017, 05:55 PM
This is getting a bit ridiculous at this point.

Raider mains have being flying under the radar for a while now. I honestly don't see how they can still say he needs a buff.

Lyskir
06-02-2017, 05:56 PM
This is getting a bit ridiculous at this point.

Raider mains have being flying under the radar for a while now. I honestly don't see how they can still say he needs a buff.

sure mate, faster guard change speed pls:)

and give it to lb, nobushi and fatman as well

BeefMan_
06-02-2017, 05:58 PM
1. no he is not, maybe dash gb but not parries
2. if you meaning stunning tap thats reactable and isnt safe especially if you get parried you are now OOS or damn near.
3. If he guesses wrong one of the options can do that much damage, the other does 28 or 50 if you can space it correctly.
4. who cares
5.true his damage is phenomenal when he can hit you
6. not really.

If hes not B tier then you must place him in A because theres no way you can consider him S. So out of curiosity what is your tier list or at least list to the point from top to bottom where raider sits.

My tier list:

S tier:
Shinobi
Warlord
PK
Console Valkyrie

A-tier
Raider
Warden
Lawbringer

B-tier
Centurion
PC Valkyrie (I don't play PC, so I dunno)
Orochi

C-tier
Berserker
Nobushi
Conqueror

D-tier
Kensei
Shugoki

Raider's out of stamina punishes:
Let zone fly
Cancel zone into stunning tap
Cancel zone and parry opponent's parry attempt (90 damage, depending on the character being parried)
Cancel zone into GB if they dodge (90 damage)

Lyskir
06-02-2017, 05:59 PM
raider in the same tier as warden? wut?

BeefMan_
06-02-2017, 06:02 PM
raider in the same tier as warden? wut?

Raider has been a hard counter to Warden since before Warden got nerfed

Blasto95
06-02-2017, 06:02 PM
Your character is immune to GBs
Has 1 (one) safe parryable attack, which needs to be parried on prediction.
Has a 4-way exhaust mixup from his zone, 2 of which result in a 90 damage punish if your opponent guesses wrong
Can flicker all of his heavies into a stunning light attack
Has a carrying charge attack
High damage
Good range

And redditors still have the nerve to call Raider B or C-tier because he has an average guard switch speed and a bad GB punish

That "bad GB punish" also turns into one of the best OOS GB punishes. Left stance -> GB-> Throw Left -> Heavy Left -> Raider's Fury (ZA). Timed right its guaranteed.

Antonioj26
06-02-2017, 06:04 PM
This is getting a bit ridiculous at this point.

Raider mains have being flying under the radar for a while now. I honestly don't see how they can still say he needs a buff.

I dont think he needs a buff I think he is in a great spot. Im just not going to say hes anything above B tier.

Lyskir
06-02-2017, 06:08 PM
I dont think he needs a buff I think he is in a great spot. Im just not going to say hes anything above B tier.

agree

dev sayed they working on faster guard change speed ..so its a slight buff in some way at least for nobushi,raider,lb,shugoki

Jarl.Felix
06-02-2017, 06:14 PM
I think you are just ******ed kid.... Raider broken ?:))

Antonioj26
06-02-2017, 06:15 PM
My tier list:

S tier:
Shinobi
Warlord
PK
Console Valkyrie

A-tier
Raider
Warden
Lawbringer

B-tier
Centurion
PC Valkyrie (I don't play PC, so I dunno)
Orochi

C-tier
Berserker
Nobushi
Conqueror

D-tier
Kensei
Shugoki

Raider's out of stamina punishes:
Let zone fly
Cancel zone into stunning tap
Cancel zone and parry opponent's parry attempt (90 damage, depending on the character being parried)
Cancel zone into GB if they dodge (90 damage)

Lol console valk S tier. I understand some people have trouble with her but shes not S, way too punishable and crap damage. Hes not a hard counter to warden, yes the vortex doesnt work on him that doesnt mean hard counter. Its silly to put him in the same tier as one of the best characters in the game, warden is still very much S tier.

Regarding his OOS punishes
let zone fly 28 damage
cancel into stunning tap 15 damage and is reactable
cancel zone and parrys opponent parry attempt, 90 damage
cancel zone into gb if they dodge 90 damage

yes those last two are amazing which I almost always just eat the zone instead of trying to dodge or parry, Its not worth the 3 fold potential damage that I can be hit with. Don't get me wrong I love raider and think hes great but hes not A tier.

razabak10mm
06-02-2017, 06:51 PM
I think my frustration comes from the new heroes esp Shin where the speed is too much, at least on console and we have no counter to it.

I feel like the secret service agents in the beginning of X2 trying to stop nightcrawler.

My theory is they are moving to attacks that are to fast to react to (at least on console) and this this how they are breaking the turtle meta. This is going to leave Raider in the dust unless they give him something to work with in this new environment.

Blasto95
06-02-2017, 06:55 PM
Lol console valk S tier. I understand some people have trouble with her but shes not S, way too punishable and crap damage. Hes not a hard counter to warden, yes the vortex doesnt work on him that doesnt mean hard counter. Its silly to put him in the same tier as one of the best characters in the game, warden is still very much S tier.

Regarding his OOS punishes
let zone fly 28 damage
cancel into stunning tap 15 damage and is reactable
cancel zone and parrys opponent parry attempt, 90 damage
cancel zone into gb if they dodge 90 damage

yes those last two are amazing which I almost always just eat the zone instead of trying to dodge or parry, Its not worth the 3 fold potential damage that I can be hit with. Don't get me wrong I love raider and think hes great but hes not A tier.

I would agree with you on Valk until I heard you cant dodge her leg sweep after the second light? I didnt know this, but id say thats for sure a huge advantage that will be fixed. Maybe Not S tier, but if its true the sweep is guaranteed, shes at least A tier.

But Raider is 100% a counter to Warden. The only thing Warden has on a Raider, is Light Parrying that stunning tap for that big parry damage.

That_guy44
06-02-2017, 07:03 PM
I'm rep 9 Valkyrie and I have seen people dodge my sweep after connecting the second light. I've tried every mixup into sweep with her and someone has managed to dodge them. I think the guard change delay before dodging is what keeps people from getting out of the way in time.

Antonioj26
06-02-2017, 07:07 PM
I would agree with you on Valk until I heard you cant dodge her leg sweep after the second light? I didnt know this, but id say thats for sure a huge advantage that will be fixed. Maybe Not S tier, but if its true the sweep is guaranteed, shes at least A tier.

But Raider is 100% a counter to Warden. The only thing Warden has on a Raider, is Light Parrying that stunning tap for that big parry damage.

If you attempt to block and miss the second light then yes, since the guard change buffering wont allow you to dodge so you either have to be confident enough to block that second light or eat it to avoid and dodge the sweep. Even with that in mind all of her attacks are very unsafe and they have very little reward. If you dodge then the punish would be far greater than whatever sort of reward she would get.

Warden has fast guard change so it makes it very easy to block/parry all of raiders attacks since they are so slow. All of his attacks are faster than his too, he just can't do the vortex on raider unless he's OOS, but that doesn't mean hard counter.

BeefMan_
06-03-2017, 01:59 AM
If you attempt to block and miss the second light then yes, since the guard change buffering wont allow you to dodge so you either have to be confident enough to block that second light or eat it to avoid and dodge the sweep. Even with that in mind all of her attacks are very unsafe and they have very little reward. If you dodge then the punish would be far greater than whatever sort of reward she would get.

Warden has fast guard change so it makes it very easy to block/parry all of raiders attacks since they are so slow. All of his attacks are faster than his too, he just can't do the vortex on raider unless he's OOS, but that doesn't mean hard counter.

Vortex is basically all Warden has. Without it, he's a worse Orochi without the reflex block.
I'll admit that I've played Valk very little, but her light spam, whiff punishing, and bash game seem very powerful when facing her.

Antonioj26
06-03-2017, 02:02 AM
Vortex is basically all Warden has. Without it, he's a worse Orochi without the reflex block.
But he doesnt lose the vortex, He just cant use it when the raider has no stam and like I said with his fast guard switch a good turtly warden can easily get a raider into OOS and also get those Top heavy light parry punishes.

Antonioj26
06-03-2017, 02:09 AM
Vortex is basically all Warden has. Without it, he's a worse Orochi without the reflex block.
I'll admit that I've played Valk very little, but her light spam, whiff punishing, and bash game seem very powerful when facing her.

I realize she can be tough to deal with on console, I used to really have trouble with her but once you realize how to punish her you can demolish her. Dash attacks are free gbs on block and also pretty easy to parry so you can knock off huge chunks of stam and get off one of your higher damage heavies. dodge shiled bash and thats a free gb. dodge charged all guard shield bash and thats a free gb. dodge the sweep and thats a free gb too. the max she can get from all of those attacks is 25 damage while if you are able to punish her for far greater especially if near a wall. Try picking her up and youll see what I mean when you face off against good players. Shes a noob stomper for sure and dont get me wrong, I still think shes very competent but is nowhere near warlord/shin level