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BrightCandle
06-01-2017, 03:27 PM
Understanding engineering

The engineering tutorial misses some critical information that every crew needs to know. A bad engineer can make the shields drop faster, ensure tactical outputs little damage with the phasers and make the ship turn too slowly. The right engineer can allow tactical to kill a bird of prey rapidly using just phasers while taking nothing but minimal shield damage. This is a guide to how engineering impacts the ships systems based on in game emprical testing finding special places to do the tests and rerunning them over and over with different scenarios.

On the engineering console you have the normal power routing from 1 pip to 5 pips for each of phasers, engines and shields. You can also reroute circuits to maximise a particular system, if you reroute all 5 circuits we are going to call that Max. We are going to focus on those 3 points of power for each subsystem and explain how they impact the ship and its systems.

Engines
The engine power affects speed forward and your turn rate. If you keep moving forward you will still turn as quickly as if standing still, thus forward motion and rotation should be considered independent they do not impact each other although you will end up in a different place if you both turn and move.



Engine Power
90 Degree turn in seconds
Forward speed


1
18
1000


5
10
5000


Max
8
7600



Shields

Shields are best described as damage mitigation. The more power you put into them the less damage each hit does to your shields.

Shield recharge is not impacted by power. It takes 115 seconds from either the shields being lowered (either by the tactical station turning them off or by damage) or since the last hit taken on the shields for them to recharge back to 100%, which will take a couple of seconds.

The damage the shields take is dramatically reduced by power. You take 6x the damage on average at 1 pip compared to max. We tested against the Bird of prey Scout at the beginning of episode 3 and the damage taken for each of its attacks changed quite a lot as the power to shields was adjusted.



Shield power
Burst Damage
Beam
Torpedo


1
29
10
90


5
9
4
28


Max
4
2
14



Phasers

Increasing power to the phasers increases range, but it also increases damage output of the phasers. Against a Bird of Prey scout at the beginning of episode 3 we managed to record the following information about the amount of damage done to the shields dependent on the power setting.

Since you have 10 shots in the phaser banks this means you can do from 10 x 8 = 80 output damage before running out of power or 10 x 13 = 130 damage. The first wont disable the shields, the second will disable the shields and allow significant damage to the hull as well, combined with torpedos that is a kill on Max but not on 1 pip.



Phaser Power
Shield Damage


1
8


5
10


Max
13



Circuit reroutes

Regardless of how many circuits you reroute the circuit will burn out 35 seconds after the first blip of damage appears. The first blip of damage is random as to when it appears but the burn out time is not despite what the display suggests.

A circuit that burns out has two impacts.
1) You loose all the power for that pip, so if you have engines on Max and one circuit burns out you will have 4 pips and 4 reroutes worth of power remaining in engines.
2) If you move pips away from that system then you wont be able to put power above the level where the circuit blew out. You could loose all power to a system this way if its one of the lower pips that blows up.

- We are looking into the impact of multiple reroutes and whether they increase the chance of the first blip. It looks like they do and each extra reroute is an extra chance on each go such that 5 reroutes is 5x more likely to start damaging.

Misc information related to the testing

Torpedos

Each torpedo does 30 shield damage to the Bird of prey Scout in episode 3, its not impacted by any of the power settings.

Torpedos can be armed and then disarmed without being fired and when you rearm them they will be immediately available. Every tactical station should do this at the start of the mission.

Silent running

You can fully route power into all systems but the quietest the ship can run is with a maximum speed of 4000 and shields and torpedos off. You can have engine power to 5000 or higher to get the best turn rates and better acceleration, silent running is dependent on speed travelled not the power input.

Speed above 4000, torpedos armed and shields up are what count towards the signature not power settings and 4 pips is the easiest setting for the helm.

You can fire phasers while stealth and the enemy can't see you. So with power to phasers you can fire well beyond your detection range of 10KM. They wont respond to it and with a shield instrusion its easy to just kill them. This is a good way to complete ep 3 without being detected.

Impulse/warp

Impulse takes 3 pips worth of power in engines, you can get that with just the usual pips, but if damaged you can reroute from other systems.

Warp takes 5 pips worth in engines and you can also reroute to get to that as well.

I hoped that helped understand what the power does and how it impacts the ship. There is still more to know but this information on the 3 systems already delivers a lot of additional and interesting information about the 3 systems to improve engineering and how it interplays with the other roles. If you use this information you'll find engineering is extremely busy as a role as it uses constant rerouting to maximise shields and phasers in a fight as well as changing the engines to allow acquiring targets faster.

I am continuing to test different elements and if you wish to help you can drop me a message in uplay.

Many thanks to Rotalumiz, Acid_trees and KMichaelKill5 for all their help. Thanks to bacilus_subtilis who is now testing in far more depth and enabling the guide to evolve further.

CasualCat2001
06-01-2017, 04:41 PM
It is interesting to me that phasers have more change going from 5 to Max than 1 to 5 especially with (from memory) reroutes being fractional power per level rerouted.

So other than range is there any real benefit to the phaser levels between 1 and 5?

Great post btw.

andymoosonofbob
06-01-2017, 06:01 PM
Brilliant!

Thanks for this!

BrightCandle
06-01-2017, 06:10 PM
It is interesting to me that phasers have more change going from 5 to Max than 1 to 5 especially with (from memory) reroutes being fractional power per level rerouted.

So other than range is there any real benefit to the phaser levels between 1 and 5?

Great post btw.

As I noted phaser damage is impacted by the power you put into them.This is the primary reason to want more power into phasers rather than range in most fights in the game

I think its because of rounding, the game uses nice whole numbers and since the numbers are quite low it might really be 10.9 rounded down and that would make it a bit less impactful. It is what it is we just need to know how important the reroute actually is for damage. or the other way to put it is +25% and +30% making them a relatively similar increase. Engines have a lot more power than phasers and shields in canon so it makes sense routing out of them into the system has a big impact.

CasualCat2001
06-01-2017, 06:40 PM
As I noted phaser damage is impacted by the power you put into them.This is the primary reason to want more power into phasers rather than range in most fights in the game

I think its because of rounding, the game uses nice whole numbers and since the numbers are quite low it might really be 10.9 rounded down and that would make it a bit less impactful. It is what it is we just need to know how important the reroute actually is for damage. or the other way to put it is +25% and +30% making them a relatively similar increase. Engines have a lot more power than phasers and shields in canon so it makes sense routing out of them into the system has a big impact.



Right I may have been unclear. I was suggesting basically it seems that values 2-4 seem to have little added value. If 1=8, 5=10, and Max = 13. It makes me question if the intermediate phaser power settings are worthwhile unless you happen to have spare power.

BrightCandle
06-01-2017, 06:58 PM
Right I may have been unclear. I was suggesting basically it seems that values 2-4 seem to have little added value. If 1=8, 5=10, and Max = 13. It makes me question if the intermediate phaser power settings are worthwhile unless you happen to have spare power.

Yes that is likely the case, I didn't do the full granualarity on the testing and it doesn't look like its worth it doing anything but 1, 3 and 5 in the case of phasers.

ClingingMars
06-01-2017, 07:50 PM
from my experience silent running is ideal at one shot of maximum power to engines and minimum power to shields and weapons.

BrightCandle
06-01-2017, 08:20 PM
from my experience silent running is ideal at one shot of maximum power to engines and minimum power to shields and weapons.

It is easier for the helm to maintain quiet running at 4 pips, but everything else can be whatever you want, does not impact your signature at all. Speed above 4000, torpedos armed and shields up are all that count.

KDLGates
06-01-2017, 09:07 PM
Thank you so much, BrightCandle, for your work, experimentation and results. :) The game is more enjoyable knowing these, and I've added them to my game notes.

I'll be sure to share this information with my in-game crew(s) as well.

It is appreciated. Cheers!

P.S. : Were any insights gained regarding node damage from routing? Apparently, it is on an exponential curve, i.e. they damage much faster the more nodes are rerouted. The order that the nodes become damaged "seems" like it should not be random, but I wasn't able to perceive any order to it. There was also some speculation on the Discord chat as to whether or not "cross hatching" has an impact -- i.e., something like routing power from phasers to engines and then simultaneously from engines into shields.

BrightCandle
06-02-2017, 12:27 AM
Were any insights gained regarding node damage from routing? Apparently, it is on an exponential curve, i.e. they damage much faster the more nodes are rerouted. The order that the nodes become damaged "seems" like it should not be random, but I wasn't able to perceive any order to it. There was also some speculation on the Discord chat as to whether or not "cross hatching" has an impact -- i.e., something like routing power from phasers to engines and then simultaneously from engines into shields.

Haven't really tested it. One of the guys I am working with has some information about routing in regards to how much you loose for a blown circuit and I think he said he had some information on the timings as well. Will add it to the long list of additional tests to do.

Varil_Rau
06-02-2017, 06:50 AM
Any idea how the recharge rates work?

Do phaser banks charge faster (and by how much!) when more power in phasers?
Do shields recharge faster? Its a 2 minute delay from shields down or last hit until it resets back to 100% right? So having more pips to shields while they are down is useless?

Lt._Cmdr._Ryan
06-02-2017, 06:51 AM
In the games that I've played, I most people are not interested in Engineer because they don't get this concept. I count myself among them. But I KNEW Engineering had to be more valuable and interesting and this explains it.

Great write up!

bacilus_subtilis
06-02-2017, 11:18 AM
The heart of science, or simply figuring out what is going on around you, is the ability to replicate results. In the spirit of that concept, I hope to replicate BrightCandle's results to better understand how the game operates. I chose to start with something easily tested without a full crew of patient people willing to sit around and run tests. That would be how engine power relates to velocity and turn rate. It is harder to test shields and weapons as a crew of one, but perhaps this can become a series in the future. For the sake of conversation, and based on some seriously nerdy ST lore, you might find me referring to engine power in terms of gigawatts or terawatts. The game measures energy output without regard to units, but based on long standing technical debates in the fanverse among the more engineering/physics minded fans, it seems reasonable to simply say that 5000 power to engines is 5000 GW or 5 TW. That may ignite an entirely separate debate, but so be it; that's part of the fun sometimes.

(see http://www.st-v-sw.net/Obsidian/January/power.htm and http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Power/Power1.html for an interesting discussion of power production in both the Star Trek and Star Wars universes.)

Methods: The only ship tested, at this time, is the Aegis. The Enterprise was not used for testing. Velocity was calculated by accelerating to the top speed permitted by a given engine power setting and then observing the time required to travel a distance of 1000 meters at that particular velocity. That time, divided by 1000 meters then yielded velocity in units of meters per second. Turn rate was calculated in a similar fashion. A turn was started at a given power level until the turn rate appeared to reach its maximum rate, then the time required to turn 90 degrees was observed. That time, divided by 90 degrees, yielded a turn rate in units of degrees per second.

Results:


Aegis
Velocity
Turn rate


Engine power (in gigawatts)
y=10000x-1
y=350x-0.45


(1000 GW=1 TW [terawatt])
m/s
deg/s


1000
100
5.76


2000
200
7.87


3000
300
9.44


4000
400
10.75


5000
500
11.87


(redistX1) 6000
600
12.89


(redistX2) 6750
675
13.60


(redistX3) 7250
725
14.04


(redistX4) 7500
750
14.26


(redistX5) 7600
760
14.33



Acceleration table (Aegis), power (in gigawatts) along the top, time (in seconds) down the left, and velocity (in meters per second) as the results.




1000 GW
2000 GW
3000 GW
4000 GW
5000 GW
6000 GW
6750 GW
7250 GW
7500 GW


0 sec
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0


1
65.3
73.9
60.8
63.8
76.8
66.3
68.5
88.3
97.9


2
89.6
130.5
129.1
138.4
132.9
147.7
151.4
180.6
178.7


3
99
160.4
185
204.5
220
225.8
235.4
252.1
259.6


4
100
181
219.9
249.5
280.4
284.1
294.6
328.9
321.5


5

191.9
245.4
285.2
325.5
340.6
350
388.8
383.4


6

199.4
268.5
316.9
363.9
382.4
402.6
433.3
432.4


7

200
281
338.4
391.4
419.3
442.2
473
479.5


8


291.2
355.4
414.3
451.7
476.7
507.9
515.7


9


297.6
372.6
435.6
479.2
510.7
542.7
551.8


10


300
382.2
450.9
501
539.7
569.1
579.4


11



390.1
465.1
522
564.5
595.5
607.1


12



397.1
475.7
538.7
583.2
618.2
628.2


13



400
484.9
551.9
599.4
635.5
646.9


14




492.7
564.5
615.4
650.7
665.6


15




498.2
575.3
627.5
666.3
681.8


16




500
583.2
639.4
677.8
694.2


17





590.8
649.4
687.9
706.6


18





595.5
657.2
698
716.1


19





600
664.8
705.6
724.4


20






670.5
713.2
732.8


21






675
719.8
740.1


22







724.8
745.6


23







725
750



https://mattscollegejourney.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/acc-curves.png

These curves result in third degree polynomials that can be used to graph these curves in other applications. In addition, the derivatives of these equations allow you to calculate the instant acceleration at any given point. Most people will not have a use for this information, but I came this far and figured I would include the whole mess in case someone could put this data to further use. My field is microbiology, not engineering or physics, so bear with me.




Velocity over time
Acceleration


1000
y = 2.7167x^3-34.7x^2+148.98x-116.72
y = 8.1501x^2-69.4x+148.98


2000
y = 0.7093x^3-15.534x^2+116.73x-101.93
y = 2.1279x^2-31.068x+116.73


3000
y = 0.2185x^3-7.9129x^2+96.329x-93.352
y = 0.6555 x^2 - 15.8258 x + 96.329


4000
y = 0.1701x^3-6.9371x^2+99.468x-98.892
y = 0.5103 x^2 - 13.8742 x + 99.468


5000
y = 0.1345x^3-6.2873x^2+103.74x-105.34
y = 0.4035 x^2 - 12.5746 x + 103.74


6000
y = 0.0948x^3-5.1554x^2+100.52x-103.07
y = 0.2844 x^2 - 10.3108 x + 100.52


6750
y = 0.0784x^3-4.6802x^2+100.54x-103.48
y = 0.2352 x^2 - 9.3604 x + 100.54


7250
y = 0.0823x^3-4.916x^2+105.19x-95.622
y = 0.2469 x^2 - 9.832 x + 105.19


7500
y = 0.0766x^3-4.6871x^2+103.73x-92.023
y = 0.2298 x^2 - 9.3742 x + 103.73



Discussion: While the numbers displayed on the engineering panel seem somewhat arbitrary, they do correspond to an in-game "real-world" speed. As you can see, an engine setting of 3000 GW (or 3 TW) will result in a maximum velocity of 300 meters per second. Essentially, you drop a zero from the engine power to know what your maximum velocity is in meters per second. 5000 GW does not tell me much, but if I know that this means I can go 500 meters per second, then I know that it will take me 2 seconds to get 1km closer to my target. If I am 10km from max scanning rage, I now know that it will take me 20 sec to get into scanning range. It turns out that this conversion from power setting to velocity is dead simple, but knowing that does give me very useful additional information.

While the conversion from engine power setting to velocity turns out to be as easy as moving one decimal place, turn rate is not nearly as easy. My tests did not yield a similarly simple equation that related power setting with turn rate in nice round numbers. My best fitting regression yielded the approximate equation y=350x-0.45. I still consider this to be very much an approximation as my measurements never quite got close enough to an R2 value of 1 to make me happy. Good news is that knowing your exact turn rate is rarely as critical as knowing your velocity.

If you do some quick math, you will probably note that the turn rates that I have presented here are faster than those found by BrightCandle. I suspect that his testing was 90 degrees from a dead stop (that is to say that the ship was not yet turning) to 90 degrees, whereas I made sure I had reached the maximum turn rate before I began my measurement. His measurement included the time to accelerate to maximum turn rate where mine focuses solely on the max rate of turn. A simple difference of testing methodology I expect. Like BrightCandle, I also failed to note a difference in turn rate based on the forward velocity of the ship. Simply put, the current speed of the ship seems to have nothing to do with rate of turn; it is dependent only on the current engine power level.

A word on acceleration. While I did not work out acceleration curves for these tests, just getting my feet wet you understand, I did note that there is a noticeable difference in acceleration between power levels. At an engine setting of 2000 GW, 0-200m/s acceleration time was about 6 seconds and change. At 5000 GW, 0-200m/s acceleration time was reduced to the neighborhood of 2.3ish seconds. Obviously there is plenty of data to dig up with which to construct acceleration curves if one wanted to. Such information, like perhaps turn rate, may only be of interest to data nerds, but a complete engineering profile of the ships might be useful and interesting nevertheless. (Edit) Now that I have added acceleration data, you can see that engineering can dramatically reduce the helm's ability to accelerate with a quick power shift. One practical application that comes to mind immediately is trying to quickly get to 400m/s quickly, to escape, without going over 400m/s and increasing detectabillity. If you leave power at 4000GW, it will take 13 seconds to accelerate to 400m/s. If engineering sets power to 4000 and then diverts additional power to engines with 3 power nodes, 0 to 400 time can be reduced to nearly 6 seconds. Simply reset your diversions just before velocity exceeds 400. Its helps if the captain has heading and speed data up on the main viewer of course. Otherwise you have to rely on others to call out speed information.

In fact, a final note on potential differences between ships. There are some. While I only used the Aegis for this data, I can already tell you that the Aegis and the Enterprise do have at least some differences in performance. This is only one data point, but I did try a quick turn rate test in the Enterprise and the time needed to turn 90 with engines set at 1000 GW was consistently 2 seconds faster than the Aegis. This results in an approximated turn rate (at 1000 GW) of 6.69 deg/s as opposed to Aegis' 5.76 deg/s as calculated above. 1000 GW may still equal 100m/s of velocity in the Enterprise, but there is evidence that it may be a much more nimble minx than the Aegis. It makes me wonder if there are other differences as well? Do the weapons do more or less damage? Do they do the same damage? Do the shields absorb the same amount of damage at the same power settings? The differences may not be limited to turn rate, but only testing will tell us.

Again, this data was easy enough to gather on my own without help of a crew. Given a chance, and a bunch of patient crewmates, I would be interested in testing/validating other systems, being a bit of a data nerd myself. Forgive the length and format of my post. This is closer to the format I am more accustom to writing in while in the actual real world.

Great start BrightCandle! Let me know if you would like a hand.

(Edit for added data)

You will note that I have added acceleration data to this post now. I did not feel like it would be complete otherwise. I am getting the feeling that many players feel like the engineering station is a bit boring, but this and other data suggests ways in which engineering can be a great deal more dynamic and important if one knows how to manipulate the station. In other words, it is only as boring as you allow it to be. A post on this idea later. For the moment I will close this edit with a humorous observation.

I love the game so far and greatly appreciate the efforts of the developers to bring the game that so many of us have been waiting for so long! That does not mean we can't giggle at some of the little things. See, you can track your speed. The areas of space that we are in have scale. If something is 10km away, we can get there in 20 sec by setting power to 5000. In this way we know we are traveling 500 meters per second, right? This also means that the top possible speed of our ship is 760m/s if we dump all power to the engines, right? 760m/s is about mach 2.5 at 30,000 feet. Our starship can't go any faster than a top of the line fighter jet without doing a warp or impulse jump! The SR-71 is faster than the Aegis! As a point of comparison, consider that Earth's escape velocity is about 11,000m/s. The Moon's escape velocity is about 2380m/s. The Aegis would not even be able to leave the moon, even if you diverted all power to the engines! That's kinda funny! The fastest spacecraft we currently have (that I can think of off the top of my head) is the Juno spacecraft, which achieved a velocity of about 73,600 meters per second before its insertion into orbit around Jupiter in 2016. Ok, so someone did not put a lot of thought into scale, but it is still a great game so far!

CloneFlavour
06-02-2017, 12:03 PM
thank you for the explanation and this thread!

KDLGates
06-02-2017, 07:19 PM
Do phaser banks charge faster (and by how much!) when more power in phasers?

My understanding is that nothing impacts the phaser recharge rate. I have not tested this, this is just second hand information and my own perception.

However, the boost to phaser damage from engineering is most significant when the phaser banks are full (because they can fire 10 times).

An advanced tactic is to coordinate boosting phasers when charge is available.


Do shields recharge faster? Its a 2 minute delay from shields down or last hit until it resets back to 100% right? So having more pips to shields while they are down is useless?

My understanding is that again, nothing impacts the shield charge rate. I may be wrong. I think it is a little under 2 minutes (something like 110 seconds?) on the recharge, and that pips in shields while down are useless unless you are routing shields to engines.

If someone knows of a way to know when shields have recharged, that would be awesome. All I know to do is raise them and look, which can screw up the recharge timer if done too soon.

Does anyone happen to know what damage to the shield emitters does?

NestroGER
06-03-2017, 11:47 AM
Shields

Shields are best described as damage mitigation. The more power you put into them the less damage each hit does to your shields.

Shield recharge is not impacted by power. It takes 115 seconds from either the shields being lowered (either by the tactical station turning them off or by damage) or since the last hit taken on the shields for them to recharge back to 100%, which will take a couple of seconds.

The damage the shields take is dramatically reduced by power. You take 12x the damage at 1 pip compared to max. We tested against the Bird of prey Scout at the beginning of episode 3 and the damage taken for each of its attacks changed quite a lot as the power to shields was adjusted.



This is my favourite post on these forums by far. Thanks a lot!

I noticed, that the ingame GUI refers to Shield Strength and Shield Level rather than Shield Resistance. That got me thinking (haven't tested it yet), that the amount of damage you take is actually the same (depending on enemies weapon energy settings), but since 100% shield strength has a higher absolute value on higher Shield Level settings (eg. Level 1 = 1000 GW shield health vs Level 5 = 5000 GW shield health), meaning you take relatively less damage. So the numbers in the table represent relative damage values: damage recieved devided by maximum amount of shield health set by shield level. But yea, when we only talk about relative numbers, increasing Shield Strength is the same as increasing Shield Resistance.

I also did not quite understand why you said that 1pip takes 12x damage compared to max.
Here I put the multiplier in parentheses.



Shield power
Burst Damage
Beam
Torpedo


Max
4
2
14


1
29 (7.25x)
10 (5x)
90 (6.43x)



I really hope they put more info into the GUI. Shield chargeup times, Shield health/strength (absolute numbers).

BrightCandle
06-03-2017, 11:52 AM
<snip>
Great start BrightCandle! Let me know if you would like a hand.

Fantastic work. That reducing curve of effectiveness for reroute is very interesting i did not know that, I was expecting it to be linear. I posted my Uplay on my initial post (its just BrightCandle), send me a friend request and drop by the Star Trek bridge Crew discord (https://discord.gg/rVtYxM2) and lets get a similar level of depth for the phaser damage to sheilds and hull and really dig into the next layer.

Depending how far you want to go on this I think we can get to the point where we can design a combat model for optimal combat combining all the pieces if we know:

Hull damage at various power levels
Shield/Hull damage against different types of ships
The fire rate of various attacks form the differing ships and the damage they do
Intrusions time to apply and how long it lasts and its cool down
Scan time
Exact damage curves for phasers
Time to burn out circuits at various reroutings
Impact of a circuit burnout

Lots of things we can test although some of them are trickier to reproduce than others. The next stage gets into the interplay with tactical a lot more, but it would be really interesting to know if tanking on the shields awaiting an intrusion on enemy shields and then routing to max phasers and bursting is better than outright attacking for shield strength and how it compares time wise. I think most of these tests we can cope with just the two of us. The gal I was testing with I haven't seen for a few days but I want to really get deeper.

BrightCandle
06-03-2017, 12:01 PM
[SIZE=2]
This is my favourite post on these forums by far. Thanks a lot!

I noticed, that the ingame GUI refers to Shield Strength rather than Shield Resistance. That got me thinking (haven't tested it yet), that the amount of damage you take is actually the same, but since 100% shield strength has a higher absolute value on higher energy settings (eg. 1pip = 1000 GW shield health vs 5pip = 5000 GW shield health), it means that relatively speaking you take less damage. So the numbers in the table represent relative damage values: damage recieved devided by maximum amount of shield health set by energy level. But yea, when we only talk about relative numbers, increasing Shield Strength is the same as increasing Shield Resistance.


It is definitely better thought of as mitigation. The reason is that lets say you take a burst phaser shot at 1 pip you loose 29% and are now at 71% shields. if you raise it to 5 pips you are still at 71%, you don't get any of the percentage back for higher power input. You ended up loosing the percentage of shield regardless. It doesn't matter, its just a more succinct way to take about it - increased resistance that is what power to shields gives you. If shields recharged differently then we might talk about total shield capacity and the reductions and impact of recharging.

The 12x actually comes from someone who did code level decompiling and determined the exact numbers. We see slightly different but a similar curve , you are indeed right its not 12x its more like 6x. There is also a discrete numbers/rounding issue as well which is hiding a little bit of the actual impact and changing it. It ought to be 6x but due to rounding its a little more or less than that. It should also be noted in testing the engineer and captain saw different damage numbers by 1%, these are the captain numbers. That might matter for the absolute ideal values, it might be showing different rounding strategies in the code for different stations.

bacilus_subtilis
06-04-2017, 01:51 AM
My understanding is that nothing impacts the phaser recharge rate. I have not tested this, this is just second hand information and my own perception.

You are correct that power levels do not effect a change in the recharge rate of phaser banks. The recharge rate of the phaser bank is a fixed rate.

MacDole
06-04-2017, 02:59 AM
Excellent. I had been wondering about a lot of this. Thank you so much! Do you have any data on torpedo damage to shields vs hull? And same with phasers?

bacilus_subtilis
06-04-2017, 07:28 PM
In addition to the previous data, Some time was spent looking at how systems become damaged and how they "heal" when redistributing power.

When redistributing power, you will eventually damage the "nodes" or "EPS conduits" (whatever terminology you like) that are receiving the redistributed power. This appears to happen in a probabilistic manner with the change of damage occurring increasing with the number of nodes being redistributed. Over the course of 9 tests, it was found that when 1 node is redistributed, the average time to the appearance of first damage was 55 seconds. The shortest time was 11 seconds and the longest was 92 seconds. Obviously this represents quite a large spread. When 2 nodes were redistributed, the average time to first damage was 9 seconds. In the case of three nodes, the average time to first damage was 5 seconds. When I say average time to first damage, I specifically mean the time it takes before a yellow or red damage bar first appears under any node.

While there is an element of uncertainty as to when damage will begin occurring, how much time you have until a node burns out, and you begin losing power, was shown to be very consistent. In every test, there was 35 seconds between the first appearance of damage to the moment that a node burns out. So, you will always get at least 35 seconds of useful power redistribution under any circumstance. How much more you get is up to chance. For instance, if no damage appears for 15 seconds, you will get 50 seconds of useful redistribution before a node burns out. If damage first appears 5 seconds after you redistribute power, you will end up with a total of 40 seconds of redistribution before a node burns out. Essentially, once your first see a damage bar appear, there is a 35 second clock ticking, from that moment, until a node burns out.

How does damage to a node heal? Each node, 5 each for phasers, engines, and shields, has a line to the right of it and a power designation above the line. In the case of engines, those designations are 1000, 2000, 3000, and so on. The damage bars appear under those lines. Each damage bar is divided into 25 segments. You cannot "repair" the damage or the nodes; they simply "heal" over time. They heal at a predictable and constant rate. A yellow damage bar will heal one segment every 2 seconds. A red damage bar will heal one segment every 1 second.

https://mattscollegejourney.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/damage-segments.png

Bear in mind that damage to engine nodes, for example, does not prevent you from redistributing power from the engines to elsewhere. In the picture above, you see an example of shield power being redistributed to engines until damage occurred. While that damage is repairing, there is nothing preventing you from redistributing power from the engines to the weapons, or even back to the shields. The damage in the picture is only to the engine power nodes. That damage does not keep you from moving engine power to other systems; it simply keeps you from applying that power fully to the engines until the damage is repaired.

So what does this mean to the engineer?

35 seconds can be a long time in this game. How much time does it take to unload a fully charged phaser bank into an enemy? How much time is a torpedo exploding against your shields? You only need max power in those moments, not the entire time. If you have an incoming torpedo, you can redistribute max power to shields in that moment and then move on. you have at least 35 seconds of redistribution to a fully operational system before something breaks. That is plenty of time to apply max redistribution to weapons while unloading a phaser bank into an enemy. Power does have an effect on phaser damage, not just range. Power does not have an effect on phaser recharge rates, so you don't need the power when you are not shooting. That power can go back to shields, for instance, until ready to shoot again.

Power also does not appear to have an effect on the shield recharge rate. So, if your shields are down, you might as well put the power somewhere else. Power redistribution is the most powerful tool with which the engineer can change the outcome of a mission. If you find yourself killing enemies faster than you are used to, or surviving in a fight longer than normal, it is probably because a clever engineer is pulling the strings quietly in the background without direction from captains and tac officers who think the engineering position does not do much.

There seems to be a widespread perception that engineering is boring and does not contribute much. This is only the case if someone does not understand how power is utilized or just what the engineer can do. The position is not simply a place to put the least experienced crew member, it is simply not well enough understood to be more fully taken advantage of.

An important example that most everyone can appreciate; killing the bad guy. No one wants to spend 3 minutes dog-fighting a bird of prey, killing it only after losing your shields and half your hull, right? Rather than just having tac mash buttons randomly, while only having enough power to phasers to keep the ship in weapons range, try something different. Hold fire until your are well charged and ready, have engineering redistribute max power to phasers, and then unload a a full phaser bank and two torps into the puppy all at once. You will notice the difference immediately. Those single phaser shots at 7.5km or 10km power are not getting you much and dragging the fight out. While not shooting, max power can be going to shields and saving you from extra damage.

Patience and a knowledgeable engineer are a tac officer's two best friends. Captains and tac officers should resist the urge to mash buttons and coordinate attacks with engineering, not ignore engineering as long as you can still move and shoot. Captains are well served by understanding the engineering position so they can help less experienced engineers become the important part of the fight that they are. Particularly when the shooting starts, the engineer is the oft overlooked key to your survival..

jeffnebraska
06-06-2017, 06:05 PM
I read elsewhere that more phaser power increases intrusion range? I take it that is not correct?

duvelsuper
06-07-2017, 09:15 PM
I was having a hard time understanding how rerouting worked. I saw the yellow and red bars but didn't know how to interpret them. This takes engineering to another level.

LtCdr-Stewart
06-09-2017, 07:07 AM
Need to change shield regen rate it is 1 min 15 sec or 75 sec not 115 sec. Why I was confused with power to shields everyone told me 115 sec when I was putting full power to shields it was recharging at 75 sec. But it recharges at 75 sec no matter what you do. I have done multiple stop watch test on it. Also there is no sense putting 5 pips into shield overcharge 4 pips maxes it out. For a defense setting I use a 4-1-5 standard power 1-3 and 5 to shields which gives you the 5.8 and the 4th pip to phasers which gives a 19.5 range it seems to work very well. But I like the idea of having the Tact to wait until he has full phasers power so maybe a 1-4-5 standard power moving all pips from phasers to engines and 4 pips from engines to shields same order 1-3, and 5 over since you do not use the 5th block on Engines this will give 5000 to engines and 5.8 to shields enough power to defend. This will give the Helm enough power to stay with the enemy and be able to dodge incoming torps with a fast dive or climb. Like you said Bacilus once Phasers are charged give them all you got. So defend when you can and burst damage the target sounds like a plan.

somnivore
06-09-2017, 08:51 AM
I read elsewhere that more phaser power increases intrusion range? I take it that is not correct?

There seems to be conflicting information about this. I haven't personally tested, but I believe phaser power does NOT increase intrusion range. It may only seem like it does because due to proximity to an anomaly.

I saw at least one post somewhere saying that they've tested at least without rerouting and intrusion range was 30 either way.

MR_Johnny_Bravo
06-09-2017, 11:08 AM
Correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that the yellow bar appears as first damage and you have 35 seconds from the appearance of the yellow bar before you have to reset routes to avoid burning out a node. Assuming this is correct, how does the red bar fit in? Is the red bar part of that 35 seconds?

PS-sorry for the typo in the title...my typing is garbage (I don't think I can edit the title)






In addition to the previous data, Some time was spent looking at how systems become damaged and how they "heal" when redistributing power.

When redistributing power, you will eventually damage the "nodes" or "EPS conduits" (whatever terminology you like) that are receiving the redistributed power. This appears to happen in a probabilistic manner with the change of damage occurring increasing with the number of nodes being redistributed. Over the course of 9 tests, it was found that when 1 node is redistributed, the average time to the appearance of first damage was 55 seconds. The shortest time was 11 seconds and the longest was 92 seconds. Obviously this represents quite a large spread. When 2 nodes were redistributed, the average time to first damage was 9 seconds. In the case of three nodes, the average time to first damage was 5 seconds. When I say average time to first damage, I specifically mean the time it takes before a yellow or red damage bar first appears under any node.

While there is an element of uncertainty as to when damage will begin occurring, how much time you have until a node burns out, and you begin losing power, was shown to be very consistent. In every test, there was 35 seconds between the first appearance of damage to the moment that a node burns out. So, you will always get at least 35 seconds of useful power redistribution under any circumstance. How much more you get is up to chance. For instance, if no damage appears for 15 seconds, you will get 50 seconds of useful redistribution before a node burns out. If damage first appears 5 seconds after you redistribute power, you will end up with a total of 40 seconds of redistribution before a node burns out. Essentially, once your first see a damage bar appear, there is a 35 second clock ticking, from that moment, until a node burns out.

How does damage to a node heal? Each node, 5 each for phasers, engines, and shields, has a line to the right of it and a power designation above the line. In the case of engines, those designations are 1000, 2000, 3000, and so on. The damage bars appear under those lines. Each damage bar is divided into 25 segments. You cannot "repair" the damage or the nodes; they simply "heal" over time. They heal at a predictable and constant rate. A yellow damage bar will heal one segment every 2 seconds. A red damage bar will heal one segment every 1 second.

https://mattscollegejourney.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/damage-segments.png

Bear in mind that damage to engine nodes, for example, does not prevent you from redistributing power from the engines to elsewhere. In the picture above, you see an example of shield power being redistributed to engines until damage occurred. While that damage is repairing, there is nothing preventing you from redistributing power from the engines to the weapons, or even back to the shields. The damage in the picture is only to the engine power nodes. That damage does not keep you from moving engine power to other systems; it simply keeps you from applying that power fully to the engines until the damage is repaired.

So what does this mean to the engineer?

35 seconds can be a long time in this game. How much time does it take to unload a fully charged phaser bank into an enemy? How much time is a torpedo exploding against your shields? You only need max power in those moments, not the entire time. If you have an incoming torpedo, you can redistribute max power to shields in that moment and then move on. you have at least 35 seconds of redistribution to a fully operational system before something breaks. That is plenty of time to apply max redistribution to weapons while unloading a phaser bank into an enemy. Power does have an effect on phaser damage, not just range. Power does not have an effect on phaser recharge rates, so you don't need the power when you are not shooting. That power can go back to shields, for instance, until ready to shoot again.

Power also does not appear to have an effect on the shield recharge rate. So, if your shields are down, you might as well put the power somewhere else. Power redistribution is the most powerful tool with which the engineer can change the outcome of a mission. If you find yourself killing enemies faster than you are used to, or surviving in a fight longer than normal, it is probably because a clever engineer is pulling the strings quietly in the background without direction from captains and tac officers who think the engineering position does not do much.

There seems to be a widespread perception that engineering is boring and does not contribute much. This is only the case if someone does not understand how power is utilized or just what the engineer can do. The position is not simply a place to put the least experienced crew member, it is simply not well enough understood to be more fully taken advantage of.

An important example that most everyone can appreciate; killing the bad guy. No one wants to spend 3 minutes dog-fighting a bird of prey, killing it only after losing your shields and half your hull, right? Rather than just having tac mash buttons randomly, while only having enough power to phasers to keep the ship in weapons range, try something different. Hold fire until your are well charged and ready, have engineering redistribute max power to phasers, and then unload a a full phaser bank and two torps into the puppy all at once. You will notice the difference immediately. Those single phaser shots at 7.5km or 10km power are not getting you much and dragging the fight out. While not shooting, max power can be going to shields and saving you from extra damage.

Patience and a knowledgeable engineer are a tac officer's two best friends. Captains and tac officers should resist the urge to mash buttons and coordinate attacks with engineering, not ignore engineering as long as you can still move and shoot. Captains are well served by understanding the engineering position so they can help less experienced engineers become the important part of the fight that they are. Particularly when the shooting starts, the engineer is the oft overlooked key to your survival..

BrightCandle
06-09-2017, 04:01 PM
Correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that the yellow bar appears as first damage and you have 35 seconds from the appearance of the yellow bar before you have to reset routes to avoid burning out a node. Assuming this is correct, how does the red bar fit in? Is the red bar part of that 35 seconds?

PS-sorry for the typo in the title...my typing is garbage (I don't think I can edit the title)

Yellow is as its being damaged and red appears when damage has been done and its slowly repairing itself.

MR_Johnny_Bravo
06-09-2017, 05:28 PM
Yellow is as its being damaged and red appears when damage has been done and its slowly repairing itself.

bacilus_subtilis said above that yellow heals a segment every 2 seconds and red a segment every second, so do you agree with this? If this is true them how can yellow be damage as its happening and red as it is healing? If yellow becomes red once it starts healing then there is no healing of yellow. please clarify. thanks

somnivore
06-09-2017, 07:18 PM
bacilus_subtilis said above that yellow heals a segment every 2 seconds and red a segment every second, so do you agree with this? If this is true them how can yellow be damage as its happening and red as it is healing? If yellow becomes red once it starts healing then there is no healing of yellow. please clarify. thanks

As far as I understand (and I might be a bit wrong), yellow starts to heal after you reset routes. One thing I'm not completely sure about yet is whether/how further rerouting affects existing yellow after a route reset - I think the answer is basically not at all - probability of yellow ticking up again (on existing yellow bars or on clean nodes) seems it might be independent of how much yellow there is when you reset.

BrightCandle
06-09-2017, 09:00 PM
As far as I understand (and I might be a bit wrong), yellow starts to heal after you reset routes. One thing I'm not completely sure about yet is whether/how further rerouting affects existing yellow after a route reset - I think the answer is basically not at all - probability of yellow ticking up again (on existing yellow bars or on clean nodes) seems it might be independent of how much yellow there is when you reset.

Bacilus is clear on this, it doesn't. Its 35 seconds for that circuit to burn out at that point regardless of what you do. Once the circuit starts to burn up there is nothing you can do to slow it.

BrightCandle
06-09-2017, 09:02 PM
bacilus_subtilis said above that yellow heals a segment every 2 seconds and red a segment every second, so do you agree with this? If this is true them how can yellow be damage as its happening and red as it is healing? If yellow becomes red once it starts healing then there is no healing of yellow. please clarify. thanks

Here is the way this works.

1. You do the reroutes, 1 or more of them.
2. Randomly at some point one of the circuits shows a yellow mark.
3. At that point its 35 seconds until that route will burn out.

The initial "damage" is yellow, if you don't remove the reroutes within 35 seconds it will damage the pip and turn red. If you do remove the reroutes then it will stay yellow and decrease at the rates described.

MR_Johnny_Bravo
06-09-2017, 09:33 PM
Here is the way this works.

1. You do the reroutes, 1 or more of them.
2. Randomly at some point one of the circuits shows a yellow mark.
3. At that point its 35 seconds until that route will burn out.

The initial "damage" is yellow, if you don't remove the reroutes within 35 seconds it will damage the pip and turn red. If you do remove the reroutes then it will stay yellow and decrease at the rates described.

Thanks for the answers. So is that why the node is itself is highlighted in red when the red bar appears? It is non-operational while it is red? In the following video you see both red and yellow bars and when the red bar appears the so does the red circle around the node However, it seems red nodes become operational again very fast once routes are reset (as soon as the red bar disappears). Am I understanding this right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1dZWPnDlWQ&t=319s&list=PLyFLZxhmlYvM67cy4n-jP6YNZYc5MCbOU&index=1

bacilus_subtilis
06-10-2017, 07:10 AM
I read elsewhere that more phaser power increases intrusion range? I take it that is not correct?

Like scanning range, power settings have no effect on system intrusion range. Also like scanning rage, nearby anomalies can limit range, but adding power will not mitigate that.

Correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that the yellow bar appears as first damage and you have 35 seconds from the appearance of the yellow bar before you have to reset routes to avoid burning out a node. Assuming this is correct, how does the red bar fit in? Is the red bar part of that 35 seconds?

Your understanding is correct. One of your bars will turn red, after the 35 seconds have elapsed, to indicate that the associated power node has burnt out and is no longer available to conduct power. You will see your power numbers drop accordingly until the node is repaired.

bacilus_subtilis said above that yellow heals a segment every 2 seconds and red a segment every second, so do you agree with this? If this is true them how can yellow be damage as its happening and red as it is healing? If yellow becomes red once it starts healing then there is no healing of yellow. please clarify. Thanks

Simply understand that red is indicating that the node is burnt out to the point of no longer carrying power. If you cancel your redistribution, both will heal. Yellow heals more slowly, but does not change your overall power. Red heals more quickly, but you have lost a node’s worth of power until it is repaired.

Hopefully that clears up some of the questions. In addition, I would like to pass along another little trick that I have come across. I have found that, if you cancel your redistribution (before anything burns out hopefully), wait a moment for bars to begin healing, then redistribute power again, you can continue to overcharge. Bars will continue to heal until fresh damage occurs. Then the bars start to grow again. It can buy you some extra time on your overcharge if you have to have it.

I don’t know if that sounds clear enough, but try it sometime. Try redistributing everything you can into phasers. Wait until at least one bar shows half damage. Cancel your redistribution. Wait until you see at least one bar start to heal. Then dump everything back into phasers again and watch what the bars do. You should see them continue to heal for some number of seconds and then eventually begin accumulating damage again. Experiment with it and see how long you can stay in that middle ground where perhaps nothing fully heals, but nothing actually burns out.

MR_Johnny_Bravo
06-10-2017, 10:42 AM
Great. Thank you, that is exactly what I wanted to know.



I read elsewhere that more phaser power increases intrusion range? I take it that is not correct?

Like scanning range, power settings have no effect on system intrusion range. Also like scanning rage, nearby anomalies can limit range, but adding power will not mitigate that.

Correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is that the yellow bar appears as first damage and you have 35 seconds from the appearance of the yellow bar before you have to reset routes to avoid burning out a node. Assuming this is correct, how does the red bar fit in? Is the red bar part of that 35 seconds?

Your understanding is correct. One of your bars will turn red, after the 35 seconds have elapsed, to indicate that the associated power node has burnt out and is no longer available to conduct power. You will see your power numbers drop accordingly until the node is repaired.

bacilus_subtilis said above that yellow heals a segment every 2 seconds and red a segment every second, so do you agree with this? If this is true them how can yellow be damage as its happening and red as it is healing? If yellow becomes red once it starts healing then there is no healing of yellow. please clarify. Thanks

Simply understand that red is indicating that the node is burnt out to the point of no longer carrying power. If you cancel your redistribution, both will heal. Yellow heals more slowly, but does not change your overall power. Red heals more quickly, but you have lost a nodeís worth of power until it is repaired.

Hopefully that clears up some of the questions. In addition, I would like to pass along another little trick that I have come across. I have found that, if you cancel your redistribution (before anything burns out hopefully), wait a moment for bars to begin healing, then redistribute power again, you can continue to overcharge. Bars will continue to heal until fresh damage occurs. Then the bars start to grow again. It can buy you some extra time on your overcharge if you have to have it.

I donít know if that sounds clear enough, but try it sometime. Try redistributing everything you can into phasers. Wait until at least one bar shows half damage. Cancel your redistribution. Wait until you see at least one bar start to heal. Then dump everything back into phasers again and watch what the bars do. You should see them continue to heal for some number of seconds and then eventually begin accumulating damage again. Experiment with it and see how long you can stay in that middle ground where perhaps nothing fully heals, but nothing actually burns out.

somnivore
06-10-2017, 08:08 PM
Bacilus is clear on this, it doesn't. Its 35 seconds for that circuit to burn out at that point regardless of what you do. Once the circuit starts to burn up there is nothing you can do to slow it.

Maybe you misunderstood my question and/or missed the "after a route reset" part.

Let me try to describe a situation I observed earlier (haven't had a chance to test more yet):

1. Reroute stuff.
2. Yellow appears on some nodes
3. Reset all routes.
4. Yellow starts to go down
5. While there is still yellow on the board, reroute some more nodes
observation: after #5, yellow CONTINUES to heal.

So regarding "Once the circuit starts to burn up there is nothing you can do to slow it.", it seems that actually resetting routes and waiting for ~2 seconds for yellow to start healing does help, in my brief observation so far.

My point is that resetting routes only briefly seems like a very good idea - it seems to allow some healing to occur while still continuing to reroute (albeit with a brief disruption to rerouting).

Then again, my observations here were in online play. I've also experienced some significant sync issues, so I'm not sure if I can trust the panel readouts...

somnivore
06-10-2017, 08:20 PM
In addition, I would like to pass along another little trick that I have come across. I have found that, if you cancel your redistribution (before anything burns out hopefully), wait a moment for bars to begin healing, then redistribute power again, you can continue to overcharge. Bars will continue to heal until fresh damage occurs. Then the bars start to grow again. It can buy you some extra time on your overcharge if you have to have it.

I donít know if that sounds clear enough, but try it sometime. Try redistributing everything you can into phasers. Wait until at least one bar shows half damage. Cancel your redistribution. Wait until you see at least one bar start to heal. Then dump everything back into phasers again and watch what the bars do. You should see them continue to heal for some number of seconds and then eventually begin accumulating damage again. Experiment with it and see how long you can stay in that middle ground where perhaps nothing fully heals, but nothing actually burns out.

This is exactly what my earlier post was referring to. Thanks for confirming. I had only briefly noticed it earlier and haven't had time to test more thoroughly, so I posted here for confirmation.

In my brief experimentation, it seemed to work pretty well - but by brief I really mean brief, only did this for like a few minutes and haven't had another chance since.

I'm guessing the one should wait until a yellow is at around 60%, then reset.

I also tend to limit rerouting to about 3 nodes for engines.

P.S. It would be nice to have the exact phaser damage numbers for each rerouting level. E.g. if rerouting 4 still gets you 13, that's very important to know.