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View Full Version : Centurion so stupidely overpowered...



Trenk2009
05-29-2017, 10:47 PM
So yeah, high damage, almost no stamina consume what so ever, a lot of hard to dodge unblockable, fastest heavys of the game, (as fast as lights), variable attack timing makes it a nightmare to parry, constant stun state so can't see ****, INSANE stamina drain, zone attacks which is more of an freaking shield surrounding the char, 1v2 situations absolutely impoossible to win, and probably the most overpowered feats ever,

This added to his incredible number of mixups makes it probably the hardest char to play against ever. Completely breaks the meta thanks to vortexes and feints and yet can also completely abuse of it with a punish after parry absolutely insane that drains stamina from full to 0.
Let's not forget the amazing punch + heavy on a wall, making you unable to escape. So ******ed.

Only weakness: life pool.

So yeah the only way to win against a good centurion is to throw him of a cliff...

Incoming stupid people :"Lel git gud, you can punish a kick and have to learn the parry timing" Yeah so let's not give a **** about comparison between chars and just have to improve to beat only this one char. ******ed. Once I've learned how to parry properly, I can parry almost any havy of the game, only few ones have a special timing that I have to learn.

iso_memory
05-29-2017, 11:59 PM
Um....git gud.

ewoksking
05-30-2017, 12:00 AM
So yeah, high damage, vanguard life pool, almost no stamina consum what so ever, a lot of hard to dodge umblocables, variable attack timing makes it a night mare to parry, constant stunn state so can't see ****, INSANE stamina drain, zone attacks which is more of an freaking shield surrounding the char, 1v2 situations absolutely impoossible to win, and probably the most overpowered feat ever,

This added to his incredible number of mixups makes it probably the hardest char to play against ever. Completely breaks the meta thanks to vortexs and yet can also completely abuse of it with a punish after parry absolutely insane that drains stamina from full to 0.
Let's not forget the amazing punch + heavy on a wall, making you unable to escape. So ******ed.

So yeah the only way to win against a good centurion is to throw him of a cliff...;

Incoming stupid people :"Lel git gud, you can punish a kick and have to learn the parry timing" Yeah so let's not give a **** about comparaison between chars and just have to improve to beat only this one char. ******ed. Once I've learned how to parry properly, I can parry almost any havy of the game, only few ones have a special timing that I have to learn.

Yup Vangaurd health pool : ''110'' Lowest HP in the game after Shinobi.

CaptainPwnet
05-30-2017, 12:09 AM
You got some things wrong. He has assassin health for one. His zone is a free parry since he has to commit to it. But anyways all in all Cent is a strange bag of balance issues. In 1v1 he is not even that great. Upp mid tier at best probably. But in teams he is the ****ing KING.

So much CC a lot of it pretty much completely negates revenge and essentially just removes your entire ability to defend and guarantees death to most characters as long as 1 ally is present. His feats are extremely OP, him having second win with his kit in teams is very tough to deal with but that isn't the worst. Haymaker makes his unblockables do way too much damage and those unblockables are already extremely effective especially in team fights. Then to top it all off Phalanx is pretty much a game winning feat if your opponents don't have an equal amount of centurions with the feat as well. Global full health overshield to yourself and all allies that lasts a very long time. I am not even sure if it does expire on its own lol. 2 centurions on one team and none on the other and it doesn't really matter how much you are losing at first, with this feat they can always easily turn it around. In this situation 1 is bad, but any more and it's a free win. Having such easy access to a stunning unblockable with his kick is also extremely effective and OP in team fights.

His charged stab goes right through revenge activation parry and CC's you also chains into a knockdown. His zone attack also for whatever reason is unnaffected by revenge parry.

TLDR: Cent is fine in 1v1 situations, but in 4v4 matches his entire package does make him quite OP. 4v4 matches are pretty much always decided by which team has more centurions assuming there isn't a large skill gap between the teams.

GAV60
05-30-2017, 12:13 AM
Balancing Centurion is easy. Just double the stamina cost of his kick.

Balancing Shinobi is much harder since that character is just unbelievably overpowered right now. Shinobi's low health is irrelevant as long as their move-set remains like this. They have to make a big mistake or be outnumbered in order to sustain any hits.

Herbstlicht
05-30-2017, 12:25 AM
Well, OP isn't completely wrong. As many people say: you can deal with him in 1on1. At least the higher class heroes can do so on equal footing. But Centurion ruins dominion. No simple stamina increase will help there. CC ruins dominion. So you rather use some diminishing returns or drastically increase revenge gained when hit by some of those moves. However, this would only work as a short term solution - because cc counters kinda everything. Skillful play, revenge - hell, if you are up against two halfway decent cents it is game over for the best of players. No way to beat them. So a solution to the freakin teamgame cc-spam is rather important at some point, if one wants some heroes to hold true to their identity. Otherwise .. well, people will continue to rightfully complain (because they think it is unfun) and possibly leave the game. Cuz Dominion is For Honors bread and butter. It is the game mode that really needs to work. It is where the casuals enjoy most of their time. And I guess with it, the game will continue living or die.

TheBosnianTarik
05-30-2017, 01:12 AM
I 100% agree. I hopped on For Honor after taking a break and EVERY game i got into there was always a centurion. This character ruins the game for me and my friends. The centurion has too much stamina and can just constantly guard break you and throw you to the ground. REPEATING. It takes about 3 guard breaks for the centurion to finally kill me and I cannot roll away or dodge any of these attacks. The centurion is RIDICULOUS. I don't understand what happened, this is absolutely no fun if you go against a team full of centurions and if they keep spamming the same EXACT moves that you literally cannot do anything against.

I took a break from this game and I'm taking another one. DISGUSTING

kweassa1917
05-30-2017, 01:43 AM
I 100% agree. I hopped on For Honor after taking a break and EVERY game i got into there was always a centurion. This character ruins the game for me and my friends. The centurion has too much stamina and can just constantly guard break you and throw you to the ground. REPEATING. It takes about 3 guard breaks for the centurion to finally kill me and I cannot roll away or dodge any of these attacks. The centurion is RIDICULOUS. I don't understand what happened, this is absolutely no fun if you go against a team full of centurions and if they keep spamming the same EXACT moves that you literally cannot do anything against.

All of what you're complaining is L2P issues. Constant GBs means you constantly fail to CGB and have no knowledge of the Cent's skill structure. Not being able to roll/dodge away means you are constantly pinned by a full charged heavy or a UB heavy, and then got comboed into a full charged jab -- which also is an indicator of how you don't know jackshi* about basic Cent tactics.

The only real problems as mentioned by those who actually know this game are the charged heavies ignoring UI, and 2nd charged UB from Lion's Bite having ridiculous tracking distance. Players in the upper-middle ~ high skill level consider him overrated and at best a solid mid-tier class.



I took a break from this game and I'm taking another one. DISGUSTING

You took a break from a game, which means you are out of practice, out of touch, and fighting against a class you are unfamiliar with and don't know thing about... and what, you still expected to win easily??

You complaining about something that's only inevitable -- and then taking a dump on the game instead of fault your own shorcomings, is what I'd call "disgusting". Do you whiney people even think before you just speak out of anger and frustration? Geez.


According to you, you should have been able to crush the cent without problems no matter what sort of unfamiliar and unknown skills he throws at you.. even when you were out from the game for some time. That would make the "cent" balanced in your eyes, huh. I think you really should go and fight level 0 BOTs. According to your logic, that's the most "balanced" opponent you could ever ask for -- he always loses to you.

Natedog858585
05-30-2017, 02:14 AM
I 100% agree. I hopped on For Honor after taking a break and EVERY game i got into there was always a centurion. This character ruins the game for me and my friends. The centurion has too much stamina and can just constantly guard break you and throw you to the ground. REPEATING. It takes about 3 guard breaks for the centurion to finally kill me and I cannot roll away or dodge any of these attacks. The centurion is RIDICULOUS. I don't understand what happened, this is absolutely no fun if you go against a team full of centurions and if they keep spamming the same EXACT moves that you literally cannot do anything against.

I took a break from this game and I'm taking another one. DISGUSTING

thats the issue, they are great for mixing up but why bother, your total CC is enough to do the job and is a lot safer to do. every match now there is a centurion running around using heavies and punches only in groups so they can take half to a quarter of health if you had the audacity to get hit once.

KalkPost
05-30-2017, 02:15 AM
Season 1 rule #1: stay away from edges
Season 2 rule #1: stay away from walls
Season 3 rule #1: ?

Natedog858585
05-30-2017, 02:36 AM
Season 1 rule #1: stay away from edges
Season 2 rule #1: stay away from walls
Season 3 rule #1: ?

dont play

SnugglesIV
05-30-2017, 04:33 AM
So yeah, high damage, vanguard life pool, almost no stamina consum what so ever, a lot of hard to dodge umblocables, variable attack timing makes it a night mare to parry, constant stunn state so can't see ****, INSANE stamina drain, zone attacks which is more of an freaking shield surrounding the char, 1v2 situations absolutely impoossible to win, and probably the most overpowered feat ever,

This added to his incredible number of mixups makes it probably the hardest char to play against ever. Completely breaks the meta thanks to vortexs and yet can also completely abuse of it with a punish after parry absolutely insane that drains stamina from full to 0.
Let's not forget the amazing punch + heavy on a wall, making you unable to escape. So ******ed.

So yeah the only way to win against a good centurion is to throw him of a cliff...;

Incoming stupid people :"Lel git gud, you can punish a kick and have to learn the parry timing" Yeah so let's not give a **** about comparaison between chars and just have to improve to beat only this one char. ******ed. Once I've learned how to parry properly, I can parry almost any havy of the game, only few ones have a special timing that I have to learn.

1) Centurion does NOT have high damage. Maybe when he gets haymaker in 4v4, but not in 1v1.
2) I'm 85% sure that he has less health than Warden. Centurion seems pretty squishy for someone who's all about getting up in your grill.
3) No stamina consumption? You must be talking about 4v4, otherwise you're dead wrong.
4) Hard to dodge unblockables? Are you joking? Centurion's jab and kick are pretty easy to dodge if you keep a cool head. You just have to learn the timing of it.
5) It really isn't THAT variable. If he fully charges, it's easy af to parry. Otherwise you can block the first heavy and either dodge if he goes for jab or parry if he goes for the unblockable heavy. Again, not hard.
6) See point 4. Also, stun isn't that bad. It makes it hard to parry attacks but nothing more.
7) Again, see point 4...
8) His zone attack is so easily parried it's not funny. It might buy him a little time when he's outnumbered but using it is asking to be parried.
9) This is a problem with ganking, not Centurion. It's still pretty hard to win a 1v2 if there is a Warlord/LB/Shinobi and his friend breathing down your nec (unless you have a lot of health and a good revenge game like Warlord). Revenge needs to be buffed to abate the CC spam that comes with ganking.
10) This is the only good point you've made. However, I feel like this will be less of a problem when Ubi looks at how fast he gets renown from boosting points. At the moment, the most optimal way to play dominion is to have a Centurion boost your home point until he gets Phalanx so he can assist his team, even when he is boosting a point.
11) Incredible number of mixups which are all reactable and punishable? Ok m80.
12) Heavy-jab-heavy-jab-heavy-jab is not a vortex. Warden's SB is a vortex because he can trap you into a constant 50/50 game where, if you guess wrong, he continues the combo/vortex. Centurion can only get another heavy OR a jab after a heavy. He cannot mix it up and suddenly GB you to restart the vortex. If you guess wrong (which shouldn't be happening because this is entirely reactable and requires no guesswork) and get hit by a second heavy, the NEXT attack has to be a jab and therefore you can escape the chain by dodging.
13) His parry punish is no different to Warlord's parry punish, with the exception that Centurion gets a free heavy REGARDLESS of where you parry AND that he can get a free kick to drain more stamina. The kick after parry counter CANNOT wall splat so you can't get a wall punish that way either. Only the parry counter will wall splat.
14) L2positioning bro. The Centurion can't force you into a corner/against a wall unless you let him.

This is literally, a "git gud" problem. You need to learn your Centurion matchup. Period.

T_Sesh
05-30-2017, 04:41 AM
1) Centurion does NOT have high damage. Maybe when he gets haymaker in 4v4, but not in 1v1.
2) I'm 85% sure that he has less health than Warden. Centurion seems pretty squishy for someone who's all about getting up in your grill.
3) No stamina consumption? You must be talking about 4v4, otherwise you're dead wrong.
4) Hard to dodge unblockables? Are you joking? Centurion's jab and kick are pretty easy to dodge if you keep a cool head. You just have to learn the timing of it.
5) It really isn't THAT variable. If he fully charges, it's easy af to parry. Otherwise you can block the first heavy and either dodge if he goes for jab or parry if he goes for the unblockable heavy. Again, not hard.
6) See point 4. Also, stun isn't that bad. It makes it hard to parry attacks but nothing more.
7) Again, see point 4...
8) His zone attack is so easily parried it's not funny. It might buy him a little time when he's outnumbered but using it is asking to be parried.
9) This is a problem with ganking, not Centurion. It's still pretty hard to win a 1v2 if there is a Warlord/LB/Shinobi and his friend breathing down your nec (unless you have a lot of health and a good revenge game like Warlord). Revenge needs to be buffed to abate the CC spam that comes with ganking.
10) This is the only good point you've made. However, I feel like this will be less of a problem when Ubi looks at how fast he gets renown from boosting points. At the moment, the most optimal way to play dominion is to have a Centurion boost your home point until he gets Phalanx so he can assist his team, even when he is boosting a point.
11) Incredible number of mixups which are all reactable and punishable? Ok m80.
12) Heavy-jab-heavy-jab-heavy-jab is not a vortex. Warden's SB is a vortex because he can trap you into a constant 50/50 game where, if you guess wrong, he continues the combo/vortex. Centurion can only get another heavy OR a jab after a heavy. He cannot mix it up and suddenly GB you to restart the vortex. If you guess wrong (which shouldn't be happening because this is entirely reactable and requires no guesswork) and get hit by a second heavy, the NEXT attack has to be a jab and therefore you can escape the chain by dodging.
13) His parry punish is no different to Warlord's parry punish, with the exception that Centurion gets a free heavy REGARDLESS of where you parry AND that he can get a free kick to drain more stamina. The kick after parry counter CANNOT wall splat so you can't get a wall punish that way either. Only the parry counter will wall splat.
14) L2positioning bro. The Centurion can't force you into a corner/against a wall unless you let him.

This is literally, a "git gud" problem. You need to learn your Centurion matchup. Period.

They can get some 60 confirmed damage off a single light parry, or just happening to hit the unblockable stab, which is easy enough to do with its weird parry timing. A single wall bounce and that becomes 90 damage. That is not a match up problem, that is just absurd.

SnugglesIV
05-30-2017, 04:50 AM
They can get some 60 confirmed damage off a single light parry, or just happening to hit the unblockable stab, which is easy enough to do with its weird parry timing. A single wall bounce and that becomes 90 damage. That is not a match up problem, that is just absurd.

Meanwhile Valkyrie gets 60-70(?) damage from any heavy parry, no wall required. https://clips.twitch.tv/AmericanInquisitiveWallabyStrawBeary

Parry-GB-Fully Charged Headbutt-Dashing Light-Light-Sweep-Heavy

Hmmmmmmmm. Heck, I don't even think Centurion's light parry punish does as much stamina damage as Valkyrie's parry punish.

Antonioj26
05-30-2017, 04:54 AM
Meanwhile Valkyrie gets 70 damage from any heavy parry, no wall required. https://clips.twitch.tv/AmericanInquisitiveWallabyStrawBeary

Parry-GB-Fully Charged Headbutt-Light-Light-Sweep-Heavy

Hmmmmmmmm. Heck, I don't even think Centurion's light parry punish does as much stamina damage as Valkyrie's parry punish.

It's actually 52 damage and centurions doesn't need a wall for his to be 65

SnugglesIV
05-30-2017, 05:04 AM
It's actually 52 damage and centurions doesn't need a wall for his to be 65

1) Calculations please.
2) Stamina damage matters as well
3) Even if Centurion has the best parry punish in the game, that doesn't make up for all the other glaring flaws he has. Look at his kit as a whole instead of focusing on "how much damage he does off of a parry."

EDIT: Looks like you are wrong.Valkyrie does 55 off a heavy parry (gb-forward throw-jump light-light-sweep-heavy) and 68 if the parry exhausts (gb-sideways throw-heavy-light-sweep-heavy). Considering that Centurion's 65 is ONLY off a light parry (and I'm pretty sure he only gets the fully charged heavy after light on normal ranged characters, not long range ones), and Valkyrie deals 10 less damage on ANY parry (provided that she doesn't exhaust the other player on parry, which she then gets 3 more damage), I think it's fair to say that he loses on this front as well. Here's the thread for you as well so you can look through it for yourself. https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/5vymle/valkyrie_parry_followups/

Antonioj26
05-30-2017, 05:10 AM
1) Calculations please.
2) Stamina damage matters as well
3) Even if Centurion has the best parry punish in the game, that doesn't make up for all the other glaring flaws he has. Look at his kit as a whole instead of focusing on "how much damage he does off of a parry."

I was off it's actually 17 for the pounce 18 for the light follow and then 25 for the heavy. 60 damage. It's also inconsistent. It doesn't work with every character off of every heavy. I haven't tested with everyone but I know it doesn't work with a valk mirror match on heavies or lights since they will still have left over stam. The only time it hasn't worked on me for cent lights is when I was facing a raider and he used stunning tap but I could have just mistimed it. I don't have a ton of experience with cent but I've definitely noticed characters are more often than not out of stam when I get a light parry off at least more so than I find opportunities as I do with valks 60 damage sweep combo.

Antonioj26
05-30-2017, 05:12 AM
1) Calculations please.
2) Stamina damage matters as well
3) Even if Centurion has the best parry punish in the game, that doesn't make up for all the other glaring flaws he has. Look at his kit as a whole instead of focusing on "how much damage he does off of a parry."

I'm also not saying he's OP I do think it's a bit absurd to have a light punish than kill all but 5 characters with 2 of them and can even kill those ones if he's near a wall.

SnugglesIV
05-30-2017, 05:20 AM
I'm also not saying he's OP I do think it's a bit absurd to have a light punish than kill all but 5 characters with 2 of them and can even kill those ones if he's near a wall.

Good to know that you don't think he is OP. However, you can dumpster ANY character in the game if you're a parry god. Centurion killing people with 2 light parry punishes isn't as bad as it sounds if you look at the game in context. After all, are you really going to be able to kill anyone who can reliably parry lights and heavies? It wouldn't matter if it took two or twenty parries, they'd still beat you.

Antonioj26
05-30-2017, 05:24 AM
Good to know that you don't think he is OP. However, you can dumpster ANY character in the game if you're a parry god. Centurion killing people with 2 light parry punishes isn't as bad as it sounds if you look at the game in context. After all, are you really going to be able to kill anyone who can reliably parry lights and heavies? It wouldn't matter if it took two or twenty parries, they'd still beat you.

But it is bad though for someone who is suppose to be the anti turtle to yield the best results from turtling themselves. Especially with all this preaching of getting rid of the turtle meta. Once guard switch is normalized he will be even deadlier. That's not really true though because they don't have to reliable parry you. They only have to parry you twice, the average light is probably around 15 give or take so that means it would take 8 to kill him. That means for every 4 he misses he just has to get 1.

kweassa1917
05-30-2017, 06:15 AM
But it is bad though for someone who is suppose to be the anti turtle to yield the best results from turtling themselves. Especially with all this preaching of getting rid of the turtle meta.

Where did anyone say he was the "anti-turtle" solution, Tony? I keep hearing people say that but the I've never seen any of the official comments even suggest anything like it... and IIRC all of such came from players just assuming it was how they designed it as a "solution to turtling".

I'm not necessarily contending the cent's ability to deal in guaranteed combos at certain situations doesn't have any problems, but I do need to point out people "insert" a lot of assumptions without basis and use it in a vicious cycle of "made up stories → baseless accusations → fuels more made up stories → leades to more baseless accusations".



Once guard switch is normalized he will be even deadlier. That's not really true though because they don't have to reliable parry you. They only have to parry you twice, the average light is probably around 15 give or take so that means it would take 8 to kill him. That means for every 4 he misses he just has to get 1.

If people had at at the least 25% success rate of even blocking lights, much less parry it, they wouldn't be complaining Shibs or PKs are "light spamming".

T_Sesh
05-30-2017, 06:41 AM
Meanwhile Valkyrie gets 60-70(?) damage from any heavy parry, no wall required. https://clips.twitch.tv/AmericanInquisitiveWallabyStrawBeary

Parry-GB-Fully Charged Headbutt-Dashing Light-Light-Sweep-Heavy

Hmmmmmmmm. Heck, I don't even think Centurion's light parry punish does as much stamina damage as Valkyrie's parry punish.

Yeah how many hits is that? How many players know of this combo? Is it in the move list? The valk combo isn't by design, its was found by player ingenuity and requires a hell of a lot more skill to pull off than the Centurion's by-design 65 dmg guaranteed basic combo.Can't imagine what else players might find as the game goes on.

Herbstlicht
05-30-2017, 07:27 AM
Yeah how many hits is that? How many players know of this combo? Is it in the move list? The valk combo isn't by design, its was found by player ingenuity and requires a hell of a lot more skill to pull off than the Centurion's by-design 65 dmg guaranteed basic combo.Can't imagine what else players might find as the game goes on.

This. Pulling of a good match especially in teammodes with cent is so freakin easy. Go with your buddy and kill everything. Even if you are against two other players, just focus on 1. He will die fast enough for you to safely kill the other - as long if you aren't up against another cent.
Besides that, people still compare to the old and underpowered heroes, not to the top tier only. So of course he is freakin strong or even considered op!

kweassa1917
05-30-2017, 07:38 AM
Yeah how many hits is that? How many players know of this combo? Is it in the move list? The valk combo isn't by design, its was found by player ingenuity and requires a hell of a lot more skill to pull off than the Centurion's by-design 65 dmg guaranteed basic combo.Can't imagine what else players might find as the game goes on.

...none of what you've said matters in the least. Combos requiring more "skill", nor "how many hits" it takes, nor how it was "discovered" means jackshi* in this discussion, because the gripes people have is the damage. Ergo, Snuggles gave you an example of a combo -- by the very definition of what "combo" means most of them are unavoidable, ie. parry-GB-heavy being a "combo". Exhaustion GB with a Shugoki, throwdown-charged top heavy busting up more than half HP with just one swing being a "combo". A very simple wall-flop GB with a top-heavy from a Warden dealing like 50 damage being a "combo".

So what's the cent "combo" supposed to be different? NOTHING. You get hit by an initiator, and then fall into combos and get big damage. SO WHAT? Did we not have that in season 1?

It's evidently a bullshi* based on a bias. The cent isn't any more serious in combo damage than some powerful combos that already existed in the game.

kweassa1917
05-30-2017, 07:45 AM
This. Pulling of a good match especially in teammodes with cent is so freakin easy. Go with your buddy and kill everything. Even if you are against two other players, just focus on 1. He will die fast enough for you to safely kill the other - as long if you aren't up against another cent.
Besides that, people still compare to the old and underpowered heroes, not to the top tier only. So of course he is freakin strong or even considered op!

Honestly, 1v2s with a Cent as one of the enemies is no different from any other nowadays. The basics of fighting is no different from fighting 2 people with one of them being a Shug, or a Valk or a Lawb -- keep the cent in your field of vision, never let him go around and initiate a UB or GB from an angle you can't see, and always be ready to off-target dodge the legion kick just in the same way you'd off-target dodge a demon's embrace or a shove/longarm or sweep attempt.... and concentrate only on small attacks and CGBs, and don't attempt slow heavies, long combos, or GB grapples that would leave you an opening for a legion kick or lion's bite UB to land.


Honestly the Shib's at least twice, thrice more dangerous enemy to have when you're outnumbered, and the cent is only slightly more difficult than most others.

agentpoop
05-30-2017, 09:48 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/6e3ffy/just_dodge/ Another new example of broken hit box / tracking for him

Herbstlicht
05-30-2017, 10:30 AM
Yeah, another funny or / and sad example. Your "standart" moves don't work. Not that this guy would have lived long anyway, but the hole set - (unblockable) charged heavys with good range added to his already versatile kit make him a bane of team plays.

But honestly, fixing him will be hard. Nerfing him would really suck because overall the kit is really cool. And when you put Shinobi and Cent in the hands of godlike players, I am rather sure Cent would losse. However, though Shinobi can be a real nuisance in 4on4's, they aren't gamebreaking. And as I said somewhere: I don't care if one hero in the hands of godlike players will dominate most others, as long as on a "higher" skill level the gameplay is rather balanced.

But back to our dear friend Centurion: he is ruining the team-gameplay for a lot of players for some time now. It doesn't seem to get better, so people at some point will stop complaining and stop playing the team modes. So we really do need some looking into those issues.

Maybe Season 3 will bring a real centurion counter. Some heavy that just hits through those kicks and stuff and simply trades succesfully? Something like a Shugoki advanced?
We'll see ^^

CaptainPwnet
05-30-2017, 10:49 AM
The problem is that in team fights he can lock a player down from 100 health to 0 as long as he has one ally nearby. Right through revenge even centurion gives no ****s and completely removes your ability to defend yourself even with the mechanics that are by design supposed to help you survive an outnumbered situation. But again centurion gives no ****s he can just spam stunning unblockables nonstop along with incredibly long unblockable CC that ignores revenge parries that also chains into a very long duration knockdown.

One stab plus knock down allows an ally to get 4 freaking heavies off in addition to the 2 hard hitting heavies the centurion himself gets. Doing all of this without the massive telegraph of shugo grab and LB long arm not to mention shugo grab carries the risk of losing health if he misses. And long arm is quite easy to dodge and has almost no tracking and can also be dodged no matter what even if you have nowhere to go by being stuffed in a corner by 3 enemies you can dodge and i-frame right through it. But cent unblockables do not allow this at all, trying to dodge them in the midst of combat with other enemies is quite the task as any slight impediment to your dodge, any small piece of terrain or player body ally or enemy hindering your dodge will allow centurions unblockables to land without fail. Then once you are stabbed or knocked down and an ally is present pretty much all but the heavies will be dead guaranteed before they can do a single thing to defend themselves.

1v1 he isn't much of an issue aside from his ridiculous parry/wall stagger punish damage which was already said to be unintended to an extent. But he definitely breaks dominion with his kit and feats to top it off. Shinobi is annoying but at least you have a chance to defend yourself and he can literally be killed in 2 hits while the centurion is not so squishy and made tankier yet thx to second wind and then a global all ally full health overshield that can easily win games especially if you have 2 cents with this feat.

It will be tricky to balance him. but he will be nerfed since Dom is this games bread and butter and right now cent literally makes Shugo, LB, and Valk all pretty much obsolete. Hell he makes every character obsolete pretty much. In Dom I can't imagine anything being stronger than 4 centurions atm thanks to that overshield, not to mention second win and haymaker. That team would be pretty much impossible to win against as long as they rotate their Phalanx shields properly. You cent mains will just have to hope the changes don't affect him in 1v1 too much but 1v1 is and always will be a secondary thought for this games devs.

DrinkinMyStella
05-30-2017, 10:57 AM
i have been using cent a lot lately to get familiar with him and git gud with him.
Here's what i have noticed:

-Really low health
-Kick, Punch, Charged attacks are predictable
-fairly slow guard speed
-Punished if missed

His kick and charged jab are reactable and can be dodged easily then its a free GB and with his low health pool too many missed hits will get you killed. His unblockable hits which yes he does have a few but can be parried easily if your against someone who knows what they are doing. You really have to rely on him baiting for the GB or parry and then starting a chain or using a wall for a free unblockable and knockdown with pounce hit. against your average Joe he is very dominant and can control a fight easily. Now in 4v4 this is where he is a pain in the AS$ he is the king of ganking, you don't even know he is there until you get hit with a charged heavy and knocked down then pounced and destroyed by 3 other players hitting you, there is no escape against a team of cents you get stun locked and knocked down, you have to hope that they are not all together.

WFL_M4sT3R_
05-30-2017, 11:02 AM
Balancing Centurion is easy. Just double the stamina cost of his kick.

Balancing Shinobi is much harder since that character is just unbelievably overpowered right now. Shinobi's low health is irrelevant as long as their move-set remains like this. They have to make a big mistake or be outnumbered in order to sustain any hits.

Did you ever played shinobi, at least in practice mode??? I really cant understand where is this coming from, like we are playing different games...

Antonioj26
05-30-2017, 01:16 PM
Did you ever played shinobi, at least in practice mode??? I really cant understand where is this coming from, like we are playing different games...

He's contending with warlord for the best. His small health pool is irrelevant since if he is played right he is incredibly safe. His kick can't be punished by half of the cast and the other half will still have little time to react and punish. Shin controls the fight and you have to rely on him making mistakes not you being the better player.

kweassa1917
05-30-2017, 01:18 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/6e3ffy/just_dodge/ Another new example of broken hit box / tracking for him


Yeah, another funny or / and sad example.

The tracking itself is pretty much standard, and what happens to any delayed/charged activation skill in the game, and I'm more than willing to bet that wasn't a "hit box" problem, but rather a typical latency related issue.

My bet'son the other guy -- the Cent -- saw a just hit from his front end.

kbvlcvfkhgc
05-30-2017, 03:25 PM
Noticed last night that the Warlords shield bash off a parry, a move that usually drains the stamina of the opposing player does not do so against the Centurion? takes roughly half only,

so a trickily timed parry and punish yields absolutely no reward against what is the most easily spamable stun-stamina drain character ever,?

Nice Ubisoft?

kbvlcvfkhgc
05-30-2017, 03:43 PM
Now in 4v4 this is where he is a pain in the AS$ he is the king of ganking, you don't even know he is there until you get hit with a charged heavy and knocked down then pounced and destroyed by 3 other players hitting you, there is no escape against a team of cents you get stun locked and knocked down, you have to hope that they are not all together.

that's the key point, 1v1 the Centurion is beatable, though i still think the punish off one mistake is way too high compared to other characters, its in the 4v4 matches, i.e the core of this game, that the Centurion and to a lesser extent the Shinobi have absolutely unbalanced everything to the point of ruin, lets just accept that ganking is a part of the game, pre-season 2 you could survive even prevail in a 2 even 3 v1 due to good blocking and the revenge mechanic, with the Centurion that is now impossible, **** all this "Git Gud" horse **** that these Cent mains come out with, no-one, no matter how good they are can win when two semi-competent centurions are ganking them by anything but sheer luck, what are you going to do except run away?, you gonna block? parry? trigger revenge? so what, it wont make an ounce of difference, block one get stunned and stamina drained by the other, they are the ultimate Gank character,

what was Ubisoft thinking when they introduced this character? absolutely toxic in group matches, i used to think the PK was bad but these guys are game breakers,

you start a game of Dominion, the opposing team is 4 Centurions, the other made up of original Characters, be honest where would you put your money?

DrinkinMyStella
05-30-2017, 03:59 PM
that's the key point, 1v1 the Centurion is beatable, though i still think the punish off one mistake is way too high compared to other characters, its in the 4v4 matches, i.e the core of this game, that the Centurion and to a lesser extent the Shinobi have absolutely unbalanced everything to the point of ruin, lets just accept that ganking is a part of the game, pre-season 2 you could survive even prevail in a 2 even 3 v1 due to good blocking and the revenge mechanic, with the Centurion that is now impossible, **** all this "Git Gud" horse **** that these Cent mains come out with, no-one, no matter how good they are can win when two semi-competent centurions are ganking them by anything but sheer luck, what are you going to do except run away?, you gonna block? parry? trigger revenge? so what, it wont make an ounce of difference, block one get stunned and stamina drained by the other, they are the ultimate Gank character,

what was Ubisoft thinking when they introduced this character? absolutely toxic in group matches, i used to think the PK was bad but these guys are game breakers,

you start a game of Dominion, the opposing team is 4 Centurions, the other made up of original Characters, be honest where would you put your money?

Ubi did comment on the issue with shinobi and cent being OP and stated that if you make a character more balanced for 1v1 and 2v2 then you take away its balance in 4v4 and visa versa so they tried to make it a mixed balance apparently.

MadCYclops
05-30-2017, 04:14 PM
Hereis my argument, IF centurion is gonna have the **** he has, then why doesnt EVERY character have a niche, thats what makes him OP sure lawbringer can drain stamina too but not enough to make it anywhere near as powerful as centurions, I just dont think its fair in the name of balance that a small group of warriors have special **** they can do while the majority dont.., tbh i feel the same way about PK and nobushis bleed dmg.

That being said what really makes the cent and the shinobi too much is the fact they "lock you down" in soooooo many frames where you can't do anything purely to allow teammates to get free h its on you... either make EVERYONES combo lock you down or remove the ones that do.

DrinkinMyStella
05-30-2017, 04:15 PM
that's the key point, 1v1 the Centurion is beatable, though i still think the punish off one mistake is way too high compared to other characters, its in the 4v4 matches, i.e the core of this game, that the Centurion and to a lesser extent the Shinobi have absolutely unbalanced everything to the point of ruin, lets just accept that ganking is a part of the game, pre-season 2 you could survive even prevail in a 2 even 3 v1 due to good blocking and the revenge mechanic, with the Centurion that is now impossible, **** all this "Git Gud" horse **** that these Cent mains come out with, no-one, no matter how good they are can win when two semi-competent centurions are ganking them by anything but sheer luck, what are you going to do except run away?, you gonna block? parry? trigger revenge? so what, it wont make an ounce of difference, block one get stunned and stamina drained by the other, they are the ultimate Gank character,

what was Ubisoft thinking when they introduced this character? absolutely toxic in group matches, i used to think the PK was bad but these guys are game breakers,

you start a game of Dominion, the opposing team is 4 Centurions, the other made up of original Characters, be honest where would you put your money?

Ubi did comment on the issue with shinobi and cent being OP and stated that if you make a character more balanced for 1v1 and 2v2 then you take away its balance in 4v4 and visa versa so they tried to make it a mixed balance apparently.

MadCYclops
05-30-2017, 04:42 PM
Ubi did comment on the issue with shinobi and cent being OP and stated that if you make a character more balanced for 1v1 and 2v2 then you take away its balance in 4v4 and visa versa so they tried to make it a mixed balance apparently.

and they did a piss poor job with that mixed balance imo all bc of the lockdown frames...which you have no use for in 1v1 so get rid of them, period. OR give them to every character...lol

T_Sesh
05-30-2017, 11:32 PM
he's balanced, just don't let him start his combos by either parrying, attacking with an attack faster than his attack, or dodging.

Ed: also don't fight more than 1 character if 1 of them is a centurion.

also i find it funny that centurion's op but valkyrie isn't? these are some questionable standards going around.

can we fix the warden 1 shot before we nerf a character who relly doesn't need it?

That's not the point. One mistake should not allow the other player to take 65 damage - almost half the health of most characters in the game. Other characters get maybe 30-40 damage on average for a punish. Again, I've already stated it before - Valkyie's punish is not by design like the Centurion's, it was discovered. Warden one shot has literally been fixed today already, and yes the Centurion really does need it.

UbiJurassic
05-31-2017, 12:13 AM
Great constructive conversation on Centurion everyone. Balance adjustments to the new heroes will take time as it has only been a week since they were released to the entire community. We appreciate the feedback as we investigate future changes.

Sykoink
05-31-2017, 12:27 AM
The biggest problem is the Centurion in a 4v4 mode like Dominion. I've actually stopped playing with him because it's WAY to easy to destroy people in Dominion with all of his unblockables, CC's etc. Punch 'em to the ground, pin them and they get some more dmg from a teammate..done.. run over to the next victim. It's pretty disgusting. In 1v1 he's ok, not overpowered at all.

teamspirit1
05-31-2017, 06:20 PM
Great constructive conversation on Centurion everyone. Balance adjustments to the new heroes will take time as it has only been a week since they were released to the entire community. We appreciate the feedback as we investigate future changes.

please find some time to play dominion.you will get first hand experience of how centurion doing in 4v4.its just one week but this new unblockable,stun gank spam has ruined dominion for many of us.

Lunatriptika
05-31-2017, 06:53 PM
One of the thing I hate about Centurion and Shinobi, is if you dodge a little bit too soon a kick or a jump attack (Centurion) they got auto-aim on you so they can't miss you !
O-O When is that a thing with others characters ?! (maybe the storm-thing with Orochi)

I know, you got to learn that and dodge at the right time. But still... The window is really tiny in my opinion. That plus stun and everything said above... The fun is no more.

I thought Centurion was to break these players who turtling during a fight, but Centurion can do the same and even better xD
When I'm fighting a Cent' with my raider I have so little choice to break his defense I always have to wait for a kick, a jump to catch him then Zone Attack his face.

And sometimes it's just not work because he can attacks just after his kickstun when you dodge it. It's 50/50. So you have to think to all these things when you fighting.

A newbie would be rekt in seconds.
It's sad
:(

T_Sesh
05-31-2017, 07:02 PM
*cough* shugoki 1 shot *cough*

*cough* shugoki punt off map *cough*

*cough* valkyrie leg sweep spam *cough

*cough* environmental kills *cough*

sorry, it seems i have a cold.

*cough* most telegraphed move in the game, has to be low health *cough*

*cough* punt basically worthless for anything else *cough*

*cough* sweep easily dodged, doesn't guarantee high damage by design *cough*

*cough* not character specific *cough*

Man cold's are contagious.

teamspirit1
05-31-2017, 07:03 PM
One of the thing I hate about Centurion and Shinobi, is if you dodge a little bit too soon a kick or a jump attack (Centurion) they got auto-aim on you so they can't miss you !
O-O When is that a thing with others characters ?! (maybe the storm-thing with Orochi)

I know, you got to learn that and dodge at the right time. But still... The window is really tiny in my opinion. That plus stun and everything said above... The fun is no more.

I thought Centurion was to break these players who turtling during a fight, but Centurion can do the same and even better xD
When I'm fighting a Cent' with my raider I have so little choice to break his defense I always have to wait for a kick, a jump to catch him then Zone Attack his face.

And sometimes it's just not work because he can attacks just after his kickstun when you dodge it. It's 50/50. So you have to think to all these things when you fighting.

A newbie would be rekt in seconds.
It's sad
:(

while fighting against gank, centurion completely ignores revenge.he interrupts attacks and continues his chain of stuns and unblockables even if you are on revenge.

XxHunterHxX
05-31-2017, 07:05 PM
Season 1 rule #1: stay away from edges
Season 2 rule #1: stay away from walls
Season 3 rule #1: ?

stay away from the game....

sgtpickles
05-31-2017, 07:30 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/forhonor/comments/6e3ffy/just_dodge/ Another new example of broken hit box / tracking for him

That looks like lag.

sgtpickles
05-31-2017, 07:38 PM
It's like no one here has been pancake-flipped, demon-embraced, full charge shoulder-bashed, full charge shield bashed, running shield bashed, headbutt spammed, or even GUARD BREAK SPAMMED when out numbered. If you have a problem with ganking, I hope you have never complained about the revenge mechanic.

You're not winning a 1vX in the current state of the game unless they are spamming heavies at you like morons; centurion or no centurion; shinobi or no shinobi.

Butonfly
05-31-2017, 07:45 PM
1) Calculations please.
2) Stamina damage matters as well
3) Even if Centurion has the best parry punish in the game, that doesn't make up for all the other glaring flaws he has. Look at his kit as a whole instead of focusing on "how much damage he does off of a parry."

EDIT: Looks like you are wrong.Valkyrie does 55 off a heavy parry (gb-forward throw-jump light-light-sweep-heavy) and 68 if the parry exhausts (gb-sideways throw-heavy-light-sweep-heavy). Considering that Centurion's 65 is ONLY off a light parry (and I'm pretty sure he only gets the fully charged heavy after light on normal ranged characters, not long range ones), and Valkyrie deals 10 less damage on ANY parry (provided that she doesn't exhaust the other player on parry, which she then gets 3 more damage), I think it's fair to say that he loses on this front as well. Here's the thread for you as well so you can look through it for yourself. https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/5vymle/valkyrie_parry_followups/

I'm not sure what either of you hope to prove in a Valk vs Cent debate since before Season 2 Valk was the only hero people were still complaining about (because of her chains, CC, tracking, timings, etc) and post Season 2 Centurion is the biggest complaint in the entire existence of the game (for his chains, CC, tracking, timings, plus the rest, etc etc etc).
In both instances people are touching on the same gameplay and mechanics. Only Centurion is the T2000 of the terminator series.

(No I don't think Valk is anywhere near as bad as Cent. Yes it's obvious Cent has broken the game).

Butonfly
05-31-2017, 07:49 PM
It's like no one here has been pancake-flipped, demon-embraced, full charge shoulder-bashed, full charge shield bashed, running shield bashed, headbutt spammed, or even GUARD BREAK SPAMMED when out numbered. If you have a problem with ganking, I hope you have never complained about the revenge mechanic.

You're not winning a 1vX in the current state of the game unless they are spamming heavies at you like morons; centurion or no centurion; shinobi or no shinobi.

Demon embrace - Close ranged, charged up, travels in a straight line. Can be dodged, and repositioning can easily keep the shug at bay.

Centurion Kick/charged unblockbale heavy - Can be activated from two football fields away. Tracks like a heatseeking missile. Travels around corners. Goes through armies. Dodging and re positioning more likely to get you killed than keeping the beatdown at bay.

The fact you miss the differences in the old and the new means you either don't actually play, or you're ignorant.

Antonioj26
05-31-2017, 07:51 PM
It's like no one here has been pancake-flipped, demon-embraced, full charge shoulder-bashed, full charge shield bashed, running shield bashed, headbutt spammed, or even GUARD BREAK SPAMMED when out numbered. If you have a problem with ganking, I hope you have never complained about the revenge mechanic.

You're not winning a 1vX in the current state of the game unless they are spamming heavies at you like morons; centurion or no centurion; shinobi or no shinobi.

Yeah I'm with this guy. All these people voicing their frustrations are clearly just making it up. Nevermind that demons embraced is incredibly slow, telegraphed, and has a health penalty when you miss, it's the exact same as a 400ms kick that takes 40% of your stam.

It's not like the long arm is another incredibly slow, telegraphed, move with crap range and even worse tracking. Long arm is the exact same thing as a 600ms kick that covers a ton of ground and can be chained into heavy/unlblockable/ fun mixups. You know the fully charged shoulder bash that takes 1.5 seconds? Same exact thing as the jab with wallsplat. Conquerors running shield bash, the one where you have to run away from combat and then sprint towards your opponent is the exact same thing as cents and shins unblockables. Basically what I'm saying is all attacks are the exact same.

FootlessRhino
05-31-2017, 07:55 PM
yess, Centurion can 2 shot any character ('cept Shug) with a wall punish, but any character can 2 shot Centurion with a wall punish as well (not sure about Shinobi though). seems fair :D I'm ok with a damage nerf if they'd increace the health pool though.

Antonioj26
05-31-2017, 07:58 PM
yess, Centurion can 2 shot any character ('cept Shug) with a wall punish, but any character can 2 shot Centurion with a wall punish as well (not sure about Shinobi though). seems fair :D I'm ok with a damage nerf if they'd increace the health pool though.

No they can't. Warden, conq, pk, lb, raider, warlord, valk, kensei, orochi, nobushi, and shinobi can't. The only ones who can are zerk and cent himself. Why blatantly lie? We know how much damage people do and how much health cent has.

FootlessRhino
05-31-2017, 08:30 PM
No they can't. Warden, conq, pk, lb, raider, warlord, valk, kensei, orochi, nobushi, and shinobi can't. The only ones who can are zerk and cent himself. Why blatantly lie? We know how much damage people do and how much health cent has.

yeah, I guess most of them would leave him with one bar. maybe not Conq, since his wall punish sucks, lol. but I'm pretty sure Raider can 2 shot him, Kensei's unblockables do a lot of damage as well, should be enough to 2 shot Centurion. Warden does a ton of damage with his top heavy, but I'm not completely sure if 2 wall splats would be enough, probably would need to throw out a zone as well.

Antonioj26
05-31-2017, 08:33 PM
yeah, I guess most of them would leave him with one bar. maybe not Conq, since his wall punish sucks, lol. but I'm pretty sure Raider can 2 shot him, Kensei's unblockables do a lot of damage as well, should be enough to 2 shot Centurion. Warden does a ton of damage with his top heavy, but I'm not completely sure if 2 wall splats would be enough, probably would need to throw out a zone as well.

Kensei and raider each do 45 on wall splat and warden does 40.

FootlessRhino
05-31-2017, 08:53 PM
Kensei and raider each do 45 on wall splat and warden does 40.

yeah, you're right, I guess I got hit by 2 stun taps and ZA by Raider. I'd prefer health over damage though. would make more sense as well since he looks and feels like quite a heavily armored guy.

FootlessRhino
06-01-2017, 03:07 PM
we could call him iron six pack then. :rolleyes:

Ed: if we're going to nerf cent, i'd start by giving him reflex block, after all he's part assassin.

i'd rather his reflex block to be a bit longer than the assassins in game currently, because he's a hybrid not a pure assassin.

well, depends from which side you're looking, he's also part vanguard :D I'd be ok with a reflex block though if they sped up the guard switch speed. but overall, he doesn't feel like an assassin. apart from fast heavies, he has nothing remotely related to assassins.

XxHunterHxX
06-01-2017, 03:40 PM
dont worry they buffed hem...

FootlessRhino
06-01-2017, 05:13 PM
well he has all the good bits of both classes, and that's why he's so good.
all he's missing is a deflect, then he's set for best hybrid.

i was thinking a 3 second reflex guard, that way it's not gone as much as pure assassins, but not there as much as vanguards.
the highest in the game right now is 2.5 seconds i think? i'm not sure, i don't have any form of stat chart to look over.

i think his guard could be sped up a tad depending how fast his reflex guard goes away, i was thinking about giving him a much longer reflex guard than pure assassins though.

yeah, he's missing deflect but he's also missing agility. the first 2 things that come to my mind when hearing 'assassin' are agility and fast attacks. Centurion only has the latter (really only applies to heavies, lights are pretty terrible). I've only played assassins before him, and Cent feels sooooo sloooow when moving/dodging. Raider has more agility than him, and he's a legitimate Vanguard. I can't catch OOS PK when she's back dodging, because Cents dodge barely covers half the distance compared to PK. since he has no agility, I see him more as a glass cannon vanguard/disabler than an assassin.

siciliano8681
06-01-2017, 10:58 PM
For all the people that play the Centurion who tell people to "get better and stop complaining" because they truly think that when they started to play that character, they miraculously got better, i have news for you...

it's not a coincidence that a rep 0 Centurion beats an experienced rep 5-20 character 75%+ of the time. That is definitive proof that this character is overpowered. Period. End of story. It's the reason that half of the people you fight are playing the Centurion. It's play with this bogus, broke character or deal with a 4v4 game where you are on your back as soon as you have to fight 2 of them at once. I used to take down 2,3, or sometimes 4 people on occasion with my Warlord (main) or my PK. There is absolutely no prayer to beat 2 Cents at once. Especially if you aren't a fast character. it's totally impossible to dodge all those unblockables. It's one thing to have an unblockable but to have multiple that take down stamina and incapacitate the opponent as well? Come on. And hey, let throw in some tracking lunges too. lol. But they weren't done there. The gave them the ability to take away 75% or more of a player's health over 5 or 6 attacks that leave the opponent with no stamina and it only takes away 50% of the Cent's stamina after all of that?

Give me a break. I have no idea what Ubisoft is thinking but Skirmish and Dominion aren't even worth playing. rep 0 Cent's owning every rep 10+ character on the board. yeah sure. They aren't overpowered. lol.

UbiNoty
06-01-2017, 11:14 PM
Thanks for the feedback all. We will be doing more balancing with the upcoming patch. We've heard all your feedback and we'll be sure to take it all under serious consideration for the next update.
With 1.08, we made changes to Centurion's jab so as to alleviate the problems of getting infinitely comboed when you're up against a wall - and we'll continue to look to evaluate and resolve more of the community issues with the new heroes moving forward.