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Dreadnought77
09-19-2004, 04:02 PM
What's a decent, well rounded plane that I could use to get better at flying? At first I didn't really think there could be that much of a difference between them, but I'm starting to see small variations.

I've been screwing around with the bf109, but I can't seem to get very good at it. I've seen other people go almost completly verticly into the sky with it, but whenever I try that, once the nose of the plane reaches 90 degrees, I stall and it drops back down. Since the preferred method of turning around seems to be going into a big loop, I figure it's probably pretty important.

What's a modest, easy to control plane I can get better at? Or should I just pick one I like and get used to it?

Thanks.

Dreadnought77
09-19-2004, 04:02 PM
What's a decent, well rounded plane that I could use to get better at flying? At first I didn't really think there could be that much of a difference between them, but I'm starting to see small variations.

I've been screwing around with the bf109, but I can't seem to get very good at it. I've seen other people go almost completly verticly into the sky with it, but whenever I try that, once the nose of the plane reaches 90 degrees, I stall and it drops back down. Since the preferred method of turning around seems to be going into a big loop, I figure it's probably pretty important.

What's a modest, easy to control plane I can get better at? Or should I just pick one I like and get used to it?

Thanks.

MEGILE
09-19-2004, 04:03 PM
FW-190A9

http://www.5thairforce.com/e107_files/public/p51lightj.jpg

HART_dreyer
09-19-2004, 04:04 PM
109 is not an easy beginners aircraft nor is the 190.

I used the Hurricane when I was a newbie, it was great fun.

Regards,
dreyer
the dreyer vs. Hartmann game! (http://www.dreyermachine.com/il2/)
"I'm an educated and certified idiot!"

LStarosta
09-19-2004, 04:23 PM
I think the 109 is a very simple aircraft to fly, perhaps except for manually adjusting prop pitch. The planes I basically learned to fly on were the Bf109(Usually G2) and the Yak3, but I quickly started looking for newer, more challenging birds.

Stukas are very easy to fly, as are Hurricanes, and Spitfires, too. You might also like the Zero, or the P40... It all depends on your flying style. One thing newbies don't understand is the fact that just because you can move your joystick all the way back doesn't mean you should. This is very important, especially with the dedicated Boom and Zoom type planes. Be very delicate with your stick dont move it all the way back at first. Then as you get to know your plane better you can start moving the stick more and more until you get a feeling for the plane's limits. I suggest you learn to fly with an aircraft that does not turn well. A) You'll get used to relying on the vertical plane more than the horizontal and B) You'll have a much easier time flying most anything else.

You can really start with ANY plane. It doesn't matter. Just find the plane you like and learn to fly it. Don't shy away from the Fw190 or the P47 because they seem hard to fly. They're not hard to fly. They're just different from La's, Yak's etc. In fact, you may at first think they suck, because airplanes with high wingloading do not have all of their advantages modelled in FB as much as they should be. (BTW, the higher an airplane's wingloading, the worse a turner it is, generally.)


In short, all I can say is that you should learn the plane that you seem to love the most either from reading about them or their looks, etc. All I can ask is that you please give the P47 a shot and I swear, you will not be disappointed once you get the hang of it. . . All you need is to keep your altitude and stay out of low-alt furballs.

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Spacer nad Berlinem!
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WUAF_WarWeapon2
09-19-2004, 04:29 PM
PZL 11 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif good for stunts and ****.. Dont have to worry about landing gear either.

LStarosta
09-19-2004, 04:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_WarWeapon2:
PZL 11 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif good for stunts and ****.. Dont have to worry about landing gear either.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Till it snaps off when you've tried to go upside down under a bridge... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://home.comcast.net/~l.starosta/sig2.jpg
Spacer nad Berlinem!
Spitfire = Technoblabble(Oleg/"Favors Recieved" from [wo]men)^PI(Magic 8 Ball)(amount of LSD Taken+Booze)(Position of the Earth Relative to the Sun)(Position of the Sun relative to God)^2

"You must factor in the alignment of the planets for the day in which the equation is completed, because the Spit can harness the power of the Earth's rotation and we're working on harnessing the power of ALL rotating and revolving objects in our solar system, later the whole universe, thus boosting the Spit's top speed to r0xx0rz KPH." -Dr. Nathan Roberts

Flying online as (56th)*MRBROWN

Lateralus_14
09-19-2004, 04:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LStarosta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_WarWeapon2:
PZL 11 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif good for stunts and ****.. Dont have to worry about landing gear either.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Till it snaps off when you've tried to go upside down under a bridge... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've done that. Made it under the bridge successfully, just barely. Gear slammed into the bridge and tore off, pushing me down so my wingtip skimmed along the water.

The little pilot dude in my plane undoubtedly need to change his undies after touchdown.

DmdSeeker
09-19-2004, 04:55 PM
The Spitfire.

It's not outstanding in any one area in the IL-2 plane set; but it covers every area well (T n B; B n Z) and if you're just practising you can adjust it's fundemental weaknesses which are fuel and ammo.

Additionaly; it's a gentle and forgiving plane; perfect for experimenting in.

DmdSeeker
09-19-2004, 04:55 PM
The Spitfire.

It's not outstanding in any one area in the IL-2 plane set; but it covers every area well (T n B; B n Z) and if you're just practising you can adjust it's fundemental weaknesses which are fuel and ammo.

Additionaly; it's a gentle and forgiving plane; perfect for experimenting in.

HART_dreyer
09-19-2004, 04:58 PM
Ammo is a weakness of a spitfire? Laugh.

Regards,
dreyer
the dreyer vs. Hartmann game! (http://www.dreyermachine.com/il2/)
"I'm an educated and certified idiot!"

Korolov
09-19-2004, 05:16 PM
On the Mk. Vb it is. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

Dreadnought77
09-19-2004, 05:24 PM
I think I just have a bad habit of turning horizontaly from every other game I used a joystick for (wingcommander, horay) that didn't really have physics. Whenver I try to go into a 'loop' to face the other direction, every time I pull the stick back, once the plane is facing straight into the sky, it flops back down after a second or two. I'll try practicing. I haven't messed with any prop settings, trim, or flap positions yet. Maybe that will fix everything.

Then I just need to get used to the cockpit being visible and Ill be good to go.

Thanks again.

Korolov
09-19-2004, 05:33 PM
You have to make gentle, gradual elevator input rather than giving maximum deflection to avoid snapping out. If you pull too hard or turn for too long theres a chance the plane will wingover, which is pretty nasty if you don't know how to recover it very quickly. Some planes will go into a spin from this very quickly. If you do get into a spin, kick in maximum opposite rudder to the spin direction, and give maximum down elevator with neutral ailerons to get out of the spin. If that doesn't work, try bringing flaps and gear down. If you're below 700m then all is pretty much lost for a plane that won't come out of a spin.

For a plane, I recommend trying the La-5FN, Yak-9, P-51D-20 and Bf-109G-2. All have pretty forgiving characteristics, compared to P-47s, Fw-190s and P-38s.

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

PBNA-Boosher
09-19-2004, 05:47 PM
To practice I would recommend the B-239. It's a bit edgy on takeoff, but performs well. However, The J8A is probably the best choice to start out with. It's incredibly forgiving, and doesn't go too fast, but can go very slow. The carborator can get to be a problem, but as long as you stay low and keep slight back pressure on the stick, the engine should keep workin well.

Boosher
_____________________________
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-Gandalf

WTE_Galway
09-19-2004, 05:55 PM
depends what you are trying to achieve

the plane that most people traditionally found "easiest to fly" was the Yak 3 although the Sptifire seems to have taken up that role recently

However if you seriously want to get a good feel for flight dynamics and practice takeoffs and landings Emil, Brewster and the J8a are all good choices. (I have spent a lot of time over the years just scud running below tree height and doing circuits and touch and goes in the Emil.) The P11c is a monster to taxi and takeoff, especially with bombs under the wings but otherwise is also a good choice.

Macel
09-19-2004, 06:05 PM
A low powered plane will help give you a better feel for gravity's affect on what maneuvers you can do... The p11.c for example... In addition to that, it has fixed gear that you don't have to worry about raising/lowering and no flap settings to worry about. So you can focus on maneuvering. One thing you should note about the earlier planes is their tendency to lose engine power when putting forward pressure on the stick... This is a result of the negative gravity causing the engine to be starved of gas.

Naturally, if you fly up in any plane for long enough, you're going to stall. If you want to do a loop you need to be going fairly fast, pull back on the joystick slow enough not to go into an accelerated stall (which always results in a spin in IL2), but fast enough so that the plane has enough momentum to make it all the way around the loop.. If you want to end up at the same altitude, make sure to cut your throttle at the top of the loop just as you start coming back down. Takes a little practice, especially if you're completely new to games with "real" flight physics...

As for turning, obviously the best way to do it is to use your ailerons (roll).. If you were flying a regular flight simulator, you'd want to pitch the wings anywhere between 10 and 30 degrees and just let the plane turn it self there while maintaining altitude, but since this is a combat simulator you want to go all out; practice rolling the plane nearly vertical (90 degrees) and pull back on the stick hard enough to make a fast turn, but not to hard to make an accelerated stall. With practice you'll learn exactly how hard you should pull back on the stick to get the maximum turn rate without stalling. Of course, with 90 degrees of roll, its only a matter of time before you hit the ground; you'll be constantly losing altitude with this much bank. With enough actual combat practice you'll naturally pick up when to bank less than 90...

If you fly a plane with flaps and retractable gear, just keep these general rules of thumb in mind... Never drop your landing gear above 270kph. Drop combat flaps whenever you like; be aware that it slows down your plane, adds lift, and on most planes will make them turn faster (IE when you bank 90 and pull back on the stick, you'll turn faster). Never deploy takeoff and landing flaps above 270-300kph; they'll jam. Landing flaps make your plane stay flying at a much slower speed, makes landing easier. When using landing flaps, always try to make your landing at under 200kph.. Exact idael speeds for landing depend on the plane. Slower for older planes with slower speeds and more focus on turning fast, generally.

Note that a lot of the later planes are designed for Boom n Zoom (BnZ) rather than Turn and Burn (TnB); they like to get a lot of altitude fast, dive down on unsuspecting TnB planes, and then gain that altitude back again... Wash, rinse, repeat... The epitome of these planes being the jets, P47s and 51s, FW190s, BF109s... While 51s and 109s can do some limited TnB, they should never try to TnB with planes specialized at it such as the Yak 3 (or certain variations of the 9), Zero, LA-7, Ki-84, bi-planes and the Spitfire (Spitfire and LA-7 are sort of the best of both worlds.. Winning against a good spitfire or LA-7 pilot involves having altitude and luck). There are obviously a lot more planes than that to worry about the strengths and weaknesses of, but those are some of the more common ones you'll see online....

theaircobra
09-19-2004, 06:13 PM
you all are crackers. the il2 is the best plane to start with. doesnt stall, good speed, firepower, and tough to!

Korolov
09-19-2004, 06:38 PM
Good speed? The IL-2 is lucky to make 400kmh in level flight!!! Pull the nose up to climb and every bit of speed it has bleeds off rather quickly. Not a very good performer in the AtA role.

http://www.mechmodels.com/fbstuff/klv_sigp38shark1a.jpg

Bearcat99
09-19-2004, 07:33 PM
Id say an La... 5 or 7, A P-40, a Gladiator.... a P-63 isnt bad either. The German fighters tend to take a bit more patience and skill IMO. Not that they are hard or anything but I wouldnt recommend them to a new pilot.... the 190 has such a phenominal roll rate.. if you arent used to FBs FMs then it may be too much to handle. The Ki-84s and Xeros are nice too... as are the Spits or Hurris.

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Jungmann
09-19-2004, 08:48 PM
The Hurricane, hands down. That thick Hawker wing that look like it comes off a Ford Trimotor. Pure 1927 aerodynamics in a laminar wing war. Forgiving as a priest.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v365/Jungmann/IL-Sig3.jpg

Jungmann

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VW-IceFire
09-19-2004, 08:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dreadnought77:
What's a decent, well rounded plane that I could use to get better at flying? At first I didn't really think there could be that much of a difference between them, but I'm starting to see small variations.

I've been screwing around with the bf109, but I can't seem to get very good at it. I've seen other people go almost completly verticly into the sky with it, but whenever I try that, once the nose of the plane reaches 90 degrees, I stall and it drops back down. Since the preferred method of turning around seems to be going into a big loop, I figure it's probably pretty important.

What's a modest, easy to control plane I can get better at? Or should I just pick one I like and get used to it?

Thanks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well the 109 is a pretty good plane to learn but its not always forgiving. My first plane was the La-5FN in the IL-2 Demo. It was a pretty good plane to learn the basics of not hammering down on the elevator as well as basic gunnery. Its not the most rewarding plane all the time but its a good start. The Hurricane is also a good one but its definately underpowered compaired to other aircraft you will be flying. The Spitfire is much like the 109 so not always a great thing to start on. The Yak's...particularly the Yak-9 or 9D would be good places to start I think.

You need to float around a bit and find the plane that works for you. Even when I consider myself an accomplished FB simulator pilot...I only do well in certain aircraft. The FW190, the Spitfire, and to lesser extents the Mustang and Thunderbolt are my prime aircraft. I can fly the 109 and fly it effectively...but I'm not as good at it. Interestingly enough, the much lambasted La-7 I'm terrible at...so you should work around and find the plane you like best. Research it online too...get to really know and understand it.

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"Either fight or die"

Manos1
09-20-2004, 04:19 AM
Depending what you mean VW-Icefire "get better at flying"

To get better at flying (aerodynamic impact of certain maneuvers), an "underpowered" plane like the Hurricane is ideal.

To get better at flying (and surviving) in online Dogfight servers then you need a plane with lot's of power, high sustained energy levels (you will understand this word much later), good firepower (high rate of fire, low bullet dispersion).
Then you need THE PLANE (Spitfire IX series).

http://www.hellenic-sqn.gr/temp/4th_FG2_new1.gif
Hellenic-SQN (http://www.e-335thgreeksquadron.com)

horseback
09-20-2004, 08:34 AM
Dreadnought-

Generally, I believe you should just pick one and practice for a while on the QMB. If you plan on going to CEM (complex Engine Management), you're going to want one with all the features: Manually adjusted Mixture, Prop Pitch, supercharger, trims, and so on. The LW fighters are almost all automatic, and the manual prop pitch is radically different from the other types, so I don't recommend them for learning CEM.

Try a LaGG-3 or MiG-3. They make you use all these things, and are good examples of early types. Take one up for a solo spin on the Smolensk map (fewer complications, IMO), and learn the best settings for top speed, accelleration, climb and dive. Practice a few landings and takeoffs from grass and concrete runways, and when you feel confident enough, add a few friendlies in a seperate flight or two to act as targets.

Start with unlimited ammo, and a couple of large transports or bombers, and learn where to aim for the quickest kills, how to recover from your firing passes (and the stalls that your first attempts will inevitably lead to), how to track your target, come back around for a second pass, and so on.

After a while, you'll have some idea about how you want to modify your control button/keyboard assignments, to get key controls more easily at hand, and experiment until you're satisfied with that.

After a while, you'll be ready to take on enemy fighters and bombers, with and without wingmen of your own. Once you start surviving these consistantly, you're ready for other challenges; campaigns, online dogfighting, creating your own missions...

I started flying under bridges on the way back to Smolensk, finishing with the pedestrian bridges at the train station in beautiful downtown Smolensk. Zipping along at 0 meters and 350kph with buildings, trees and vehicles flashing by is a hoot, and surviving it to land safely is even better. Playing the tracks for my friends has won a few converts, and earned a general comprehension of my enthusiasm/addiction to this game.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

karost
09-20-2004, 10:32 AM
If you start from IL-2 sturmovik original version or demo I recomment LaGG-3 or IL-2 for a frist training but avoid to try p-39 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif but if you have FB/AEP then flying La5 ,Hurricanes (low wing load) or 109 (high wing load) if you need more challenging but a good way to make turn in 109 is IMMELMANN TURN or RETOURNMENT , you have to read alot about characteristic for high wing load and low wing load and read about best conner speed for make turn. you still lucky because this game/sim did not model in torque effect and cross wind take off / landing so you can improve your skill easy.


but if you need to learning about how terrible for torque effect look like just try targetware and take off and landing Corsair that is other challenging but harder.

S!

John_Stag
09-20-2004, 10:37 AM
To learn to fly?

Hurricane Mk.1, without a doubt. Combat, except in certain narrow bands is something else again, but if you want a well-behaved aircraft to practice dodgy stiff in, the Hurricane is it.

Choice 2 would be the B239, but watch the torque on takeoff.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>'A' Flight Leader: How did you get back?

'B' Flight Leader: Followed the railway line to Verdun, then the road to base. How about you?

'A': I used the river. What about you Johnny (Sergeant Pilot Johnny Winn), you were first on the ground?

Johnny: Me? I flew a course on the compass. What the F*ck do you think it's there for?"

The History of 73 Squadron, Part 1, Don Minterne<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The190Flyer
09-20-2004, 10:57 AM
I learned the hard way in a P-39 and a 190A-8 mostly, also flew the 109 quite extinsively, i tell ya what, startin with a 190 is a good way to teach you of what NOT to do in a plane. Because it's not very forgiving, at times.

dieg777
09-20-2004, 11:00 AM
IMHO Hurricane is easiest- download exteme-ones BOB campaign from netwings and it guides you in gentlly on flying it as well

O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
Anā' foolish notion:
What airs in dress anā' gait wad leaā'e us,
Anā' evā'n devotion!

JoachimvMayern
09-20-2004, 11:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Megile:
FW-190A9

http://www.5thairforce.com/e107_files/public/p51lightj.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lol, Megile, nice sense of humor you have there! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Seriously tho, I would try the good ol il2. It's a great beginner plane when it comes to flying.

MOhz
09-20-2004, 11:23 AM
i think we need a new alround training plane

MOhz
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/MOhz/penguin_cartoon.jpg
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Now edit this post and look at the link. You will see how it needs to be done for your sig.

[This message was edited by T_O_A_D on Mon September 20 2004 at 10:26 AM.]

FI WILLIE
09-20-2004, 07:10 PM
I learned the game in the I-16. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif Other than it's manual gear and the fire going out in a negative G maneuver, it is a very forgiving plane in my opinion. No trim to fool with, just FLY IT!! Stall it and it will unstall itself most of the time. Easy to spin and "unspin" too. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Virtus Junxit,
Mors Non Separabit.
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WaffenKatze
09-20-2004, 07:40 PM
if u find fun, then go for the Turn plane
or looking for strategy and tactics go for BnZ plane

109 is best bet I think, this capable plane teach u both way, runner and turnner. so if u good at it? make it great...

IMO non-stall plane give bad habit to cyber pilot. so u would go 190, or american Plane. which unforgiving at stall and require right tactics at all time

[This message was edited by Kazimiera on Mon September 20 2004 at 06:53 PM.]

WUAF_LtC_Ace
09-20-2004, 08:28 PM
all plane ar good just the diference is make by the pilot if you ar good pilot you can dominate all plane just keep working !! ~S~

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Dreadnought77
09-20-2004, 10:12 PM
I have a couple more questions, if you don't mind.

How to you center the gunsight on the Bf109? Whenever I fly one, the sight is way off to the right side of the screen, and I can't see the X. I've seen them centered on tracks.

Kind of a wierd thing to ask, but does anyone mind posting the contents of the conf.ini file here? I turned something on (arrows) to see what it looked like, but changing it back does nothing.

Thanks again.

FI.Snaphoo
09-21-2004, 12:56 AM
Ctrl+F1 or Shift+F1 on the "gangsta lean" in the luftwaffe planes http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I'd actually recommend the J-8A, for a good practice plane. I'm sure that this will be scoffed at, but I practiced in this plane (still do actually from time to time) for just getting down the "basics" and you had to really work at stalling this plane out. And as a beginner, who ended up in a flat spin or tail spin every time he touched the joystick when I started out, this was a good plane to practice flying in.

It's not a pretty plane... being a biplane... but it is a good one. Try it out. Great for practicing most any maneuvre. Just don't leave it in a negative G maneuvre for too long... Might choke out the engine http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/JakeGM/Snaphoo3.gif

F19_Ob
09-21-2004, 02:51 AM
In my opinion U first should choose the one that appeals to u the most.

If the idea is to fly in combat with it U still have to familiarise with it since all planes have its own characteristics.

If u want to be a really good fighter I suggest U limit yourself to a few planes.

A 109 is very different from a yak1 or a LaGG3 and rapid switches betwen these planes (if u arnt faimiliar) will not be beneficial in any way. (again my opinion)

One thing that dont change with planes is the understanding of deflectionshooting, although there might be great differences in the weapons, wich may require more or less lead.

Also the feeling of the plane makes difference
If u change from a stable plane to a twitchy one.


------------
Regardless of plane its a good idea to find out the limits of climb,dive ,turning ,scissoring and how fast it can accellerate or break (slow down) and compare this info with the plane u are most likely to meet.
For example; if u know that your plane can do two hard loops in a row and that your enemy cant, then u know u have an advantage before combat starts and can plan ahead.
some thoughts http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

KGr.HH-Sunburst
09-21-2004, 09:33 AM
well you can give the LaGG a try ,it doesnt stall
at all and turns on a dime ,climb is good has no E bleed and doesnt have to face gravity

http://www.hell-hounds.de
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v94/sunburst/FW190A6sigHH.jpg
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