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kanuzira
05-26-2017, 08:51 AM
I think the shinoby should get some counters to his kick because damn i cant punish any of it what effectively make him overpowered since there is littlerly nothing i can do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGUsK0zi9V4&feature=youtu.be

WFL_M4sT3R_
05-26-2017, 09:09 AM
Try with run, stab, and than start chain attack.

kanuzira
05-26-2017, 09:27 AM
Try with run, stab, and than start chain attack.

He parried that every single time.

radi0wantcandy
05-26-2017, 09:34 AM
just experienced the same.

Its total trash.

radi0wantcandy
05-26-2017, 09:35 AM
especially when they spam the kick + their bs vanishing dodges

DrinkinMyStella
05-26-2017, 09:46 AM
i rush the little ninja and and throw attacks left and right which works for me, you have to dodge the kick at the last minute or GB as as he dodges.

slasht14
05-26-2017, 09:55 AM
Nerf the ****y fake shinoobi to the ground!!

kanuzira
05-26-2017, 09:56 AM
i rush the little ninja and and throw attacks left and right which works for me, you have to dodge the kick at the last minute or GB as as he dodges.

i wouldnt have made this post if i didnt try everything. he just goes to a safe distance and uses his kick. didnt go? retreat and repeat.

Berard_Gutler
05-26-2017, 10:03 AM
I like the comments like " why don't u dodge", "why don't u parry" like really, they can just spam kick and dodge backwards with no penalty whatsoever and keep spamming the same moves from range untill they force you to do a mistake, same with cent unblockabels u can't even predict when they release the heavy and be able to parry it not to mention he has a heavy faster than PK light attacks, pure cancer characters... for me, they ruined the game and i started playing less time every day and probably quit soon.

CaynAldan
05-26-2017, 10:06 AM
I don't know LW and play little with shinobi by now, but i get a lot of attacks while doing the kick. It could just a thing of timing. It's occuring a lot with new heroes, they have odd timings

CaptainPwnet
05-26-2017, 10:12 AM
Did you try throwing out a heavy as he dashes in? Should catch him before the kick or at least trade with the kick. But remember at the end of the day this game was never designed to be balanced in 1v1 and probably never will be. If he starts seeing the heavy and doesnt dbl dash then try a light and reacting a little later.

AdeptusLupos
05-26-2017, 01:45 PM
I like the comments like " why don't u dodge", "why don't u parry" like really, they can just spam kick and dodge backwards with no penalty whatsoever and keep spamming the same moves from range untill they force you to do a mistake, same with cent unblockabels u can't even predict when they release the heavy and be able to parry it not to mention he has a heavy faster than PK light attacks, pure cancer characters... for me, they ruined the game and i started playing less time every day and probably quit soon.

Here is the thing, NO ONE, can force you to make a mistake, only you can make a mistake,there in lies the shinobis weakness and why he is not op. Shinobi requires his opponents to make a mistake to win, he can not use brute force because everything he has, even though it's fast, has a counter, and ALL of his moves are easy to counter once you learn them. Also all his moves are telegraphed ( with the exception of light spam)

There are many other classes that can use brute force and don't require mistakes on their opponents part to win.

If your losing to Shinobi it's because YOU are making mistakes. Not because shinobi is op.

Ulnias
05-26-2017, 02:53 PM
i rush the little ninja and and throw attacks left and right which works for me, you have to dodge the kick at the last minute or GB as as he dodges.

yeah I do too. especially with my cent, no stam, the little buggers cant double dodge xD

Ulnias
05-26-2017, 02:56 PM
I like the comments like " why don't u dodge", "why don't u parry" like really, they can just spam kick and dodge backwards with no penalty whatsoever and keep spamming the same moves from range untill they force you to do a mistake, same with cent unblockabels u can't even predict when they release the heavy and be able to parry it not to mention he has a heavy faster than PK light attacks, pure cancer characters... for me, they ruined the game and i started playing less time every day and probably quit soon.

imagine the lowest HP pooled char in game. now imagine their moveset being easily punishable... ok bear with me. Imagine they know they will drain their stamina quickly by spamming the double dodge kick, but instead of spamming it, they double dodge, kick, light atk, retreat... ranged atk, rinse repeat whatever mix ups you throw in their... i call that strategy to not gettingmy low hp polled *** beat.

kanuzira
05-26-2017, 03:14 PM
imagine the lowest HP pooled char in game. now imagine their moveset being easily punishable... ok bear with me. Imagine they know they will drain their stamina quickly by spamming the double dodge kick, but instead of spamming it, they double dodge, kick, light atk, retreat... ranged atk, rinse repeat whatever mix ups you throw in their... i call that strategy to not gettingmy low hp polled *** beat.

I would like a hero with 10 hp and an 7.62 emr that does 70 damage and can shoot across the map. it is balanced since i die with 1 hit.

Netcode_err_404
05-26-2017, 03:21 PM
Fact isLB cannot hit a good shinobi thats a pure fact.

Switch warden or pk, your best bet to win versus them. LB is too slow to do all except start to turtle up and spam shoves off blocks, cuz the class is clearly full of options.

T_Sesh
05-26-2017, 03:49 PM
If you know he's just going to backflip after the kick (ranged heavy or gb have to be entered during their kick), then you may as well trade a heavy for their kick. Their kick will still go through, but you will have taken half their health vs maybe a sliver of yours at best if they do a (counterable) ranged attack after the flip.

AdeptusLupos
05-26-2017, 04:12 PM
I would like a hero with 10 hp and an 7.62 emr that does 70 damage and can shoot across the map. it is balanced since i die with 1 hit.

Straw man

1. Kasurigama is a melee weapon with range
2. You ignored the fact shinobi is easily punished on all his moves
3 shinobis damage is small he just hits fast. Which means that he is more open to punishment because each hit has a punish opportunity.

But nice try

Netcode_err_404
05-26-2017, 04:18 PM
Straw man

1. Kasurigama is a melee weapon with range
2. You ignored the fact shinobi is easily punished on all his moves
3 shinobis damage is small he just hits fast. Which means that he is more open to punishment because each hit has a punish opportunity.

But nice try

You ignore the fact he is punishable ONLY by a FEW classes.

You also ignore the fact that the whole character is built on some "feature" that are new and unique to that said character. Shinobis are ready to for honor 2.0 while the rest of the classes are not.

Till defensive fix is up, this won't change.

AdeptusLupos
05-26-2017, 07:49 PM
You ignore the fact he is punishable ONLY by a FEW classes.

You also ignore the fact that the whole character is built on some "feature" that are new and unique to that said character. Shinobis are ready to for honor 2.0 while the rest of the classes are not.

Till defensive fix is up, this won't change.

I'm sorry but your assumption is false.

My shinobi is rep 6 now, so I have played quite a few rounds with him. There are no characters that when played correctly, can not counter him.

Most people are just bad players, but they don't want to admit they got outplayed, they would rather just believe that they lost because the class is op.

To be fair most people don't think Orochi, is an OP class, but I wrecked house with my Orochi. I could confidently go 2 or 3 vs 1 with him, even won my fair share of 4v1 on Orochi.

On my shinobi going 2v1 is practically a death sentence unless both players are completely incompetent.

My shinobi I have a much worse kd ratio on than my Orochi.

I think the actually hard data numbers on shinobi win/loss, damage, k/d will prove that they are a mid tear character, not top.

There are just a bunch of bad players in this game shutting salt rocks over a new class they don't understand.

AdeptusLupos
05-26-2017, 07:53 PM
For the record, I suck at playing with any slow character. I do well with the fast ones.

Also kensi even though he is not considered a powerful character, is my nemesis, I lose to them alot. I know the character is not OP. I'm just not good at fighting him for some reason.

This is the same issue people are having with shinobi in all honesty. They just don't want to admit they are getting outplayed.

Netcode_err_404
05-26-2017, 08:01 PM
I'm sorry but your assumption is false.

My shinobi is rep 6 now, so I have played quite a few rounds with him. There are no characters that when played correctly, can not counter him.

Most people are just bad players, but they don't want to admit they got outplayed, they would rather just believe that they lost because the class is op.

To be fair most people don't think Orochi, is an OP class, but I wrecked house with my Orochi. I could confidently go 2 or 3 vs 1 with him, even won my fair share of 4v1 on Orochi.

On my shinobi going 2v1 is practically a death sentence unless both players are completely incompetent.

My shinobi I have a much worse kd ratio on than my Orochi.

I think the actually hard data numbers on shinobi win/loss, damage, k/d will prove that they are a mid tear character, not top.

There are just a bunch of bad players in this game shutting salt rocks over a new class they don't understand.

Thats because orochi does 2 things, top light and zone, and both of them are good options. With shinobi you need to be a little bit "open minded".

WFL_M4sT3R_
05-26-2017, 08:58 PM
I'm sorry but your assumption is false.

My shinobi is rep 6 now, so I have played quite a few rounds with him. There are no characters that when played correctly, can not counter him.

Most people are just bad players, but they don't want to admit they got outplayed, they would rather just believe that they lost because the class is op.

To be fair most people don't think Orochi, is an OP class, but I wrecked house with my Orochi. I could confidently go 2 or 3 vs 1 with him, even won my fair share of 4v1 on Orochi.

On my shinobi going 2v1 is practically a death sentence unless both players are completely incompetent.

My shinobi I have a much worse kd ratio on than my Orochi.

I think the actually hard data numbers on shinobi win/loss, damage, k/d will prove that they are a mid tear character, not top.

There are just a bunch of bad players in this game shutting salt rocks over a new class they don't understand.

Nice explanation

ugurbu
05-26-2017, 09:42 PM
Thread No. 100 about why the Shinobi is evil.

Jesus, guys, just put some effort into getting to know the Shinobi and try to counter them. If you keep losing then the other guy is the better player, simple. I have so many losses on my Shinobi on 1v1 and why is that you ask? Simple answer: my opponents were way better than I am. If the hero would be so OP then I would at least have an about 50:50 ratio.

See? Really easy to admit.

Y_Shrewditch
05-26-2017, 09:47 PM
Shinobi requires his opponents to make a mistake to win, he can not use brute force because everything he has, even though it's fast, has a counter, and ALL of his moves are easy to counter once you learn them. Also all his moves are telegraphed ( with the exception of light spam)


That's not really true, he can initiate the ddodge kick from a safe distance and still have it connect. If it connects it's a free heavy, which is not a bad trade-off for the light he may get during the kick (heavies tend to be interrupted by the kick before they hit). When the opponent dodges he opened himself to a guardbreak incase the Shin doesn't kick, and the backflip retreat is only potentially punishable by some characters who can jump after him.

The only moves easy to counter are his straight heavies and charged heavies/ranged guardbreaks.



If your losing to Shinobi it's because YOU are making mistakes. Not because shinobi is op.

Of course, every missed block or parry is my mistake, unless I'm stun-locked, which is also a consequence of me not avoiding that. That's not the point.

I've got mine to rep2, and my killscore is lower than average. Some fights I just maul my opponent in a couple of seconds, other fights I make 2 mistakes and I'm done. And since I make many mistakes I kinda suck with him and wouldn't mind a buff to his healthpool and guard-decay. But that's also not the point.

The point is that, as far as I can see, the ONLY way to beat a Shinobi is when he's the one making the mistakes. Either by not capitalizing on mine, or by giving me an opening which I cannot afford to miss. And that also encourages turtling, at least that's the way I tend to go to beat him with the most chance of success. And that, I think, warrants the idea that he may be a bit OP.

He may need some tweaks, ones that don't nerf him to the ground, and may require some buffs to compensate for it. I have absolutely no problem with a high risk/high reward hero, but as it is now, I feel his kit overcompensates for his weaknesses.

kanuzira
05-26-2017, 10:06 PM
Thread No. 100 about why the Shinobi is evil.

Jesus, guys, just put some effort into getting to know the Shinobi and try to counter them. If you keep losing then the other guy is the better player, simple. I have so many losses on my Shinobi on 1v1 and why is that you ask? Simple answer: my opponents were way better than I am. If the hero would be so OP then I would at least have an about 50:50 ratio.

See? Really easy to admit.


I'm sorry but your assumption is false. My shinobi is rep 6 now, so I have played quite a few rounds with him. There are no characters that when played correctly, can not counter him. Most people are just bad players, but they don't want to admit they got outplayed, they would rather just believe that they lost because the class is op. To be fair most people don't think Orochi, is an OP class, but I wrecked house with my Orochi. I could confidently go 2 or 3 vs 1 with him, even won my fair share of 4v1 on Orochi. On my shinobi going 2v1 is practically a death sentence unless both players are completely incompetent. My shinobi I have a much worse kd ratio on than my Orochi. I think the actually hard data numbers on shinobi win/loss, damage, k/d will prove that they are a mid tear character, not top. There are just a bunch of bad players in this game shutting salt rocks over a new class they don't understand.

Look at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGUsK0zi9V4
There is no way for me to punish, i have to acept my death since there is no way to counter him. or heroes need a major buff or he needs a nerf. it is one or the other

Danioku
05-26-2017, 10:22 PM
Look at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGUsK0zi9V4
There is no way for me to punish, i have to acept my death since there is no way to counter him. or heroes need a major buff or he needs a nerf. it is one or the other

i felt bad for you watching this and, i mean, you cant even say if it was a good player or not, skill is not required for do this.

Thr3shHo1d
05-27-2017, 12:16 AM
Very nice.. I didn't know you could backflip out of a missed kick.. Now I do.. thanks for the training video.

CeIasun
05-27-2017, 12:24 AM
Well I watched the video........

That was siriouse a waste of minutes of my life...... I want a refund for those minutes....

Seems to me everybody is posting sh*t on YouTube these days....

kanuzira
05-27-2017, 06:42 AM
I can't really figure out why people defend shinobi. It is either trolling or they are advanced stupid

Antonioj26
05-27-2017, 06:57 AM
I can't really figure out why people defend shinobi. It is either trolling or they are advanced stupid

Because most shins are absolute trash weebs. He's ridiculous in the hands of anyone semi capable. I'm pretty good with just about everyone but the assassins and I'm murdering with him. I honestly challenge anyone on psn to show me how to beat the kick. I'm not asking you to tell me, I'm asking you to show me in game. I realize that there is that reddit post that has punishes for certain characters but I want to put them to the test myself because half of them seem easy to avoid. Psn is Alyssaa-3

AdeptusLupos
05-27-2017, 09:15 AM
Look at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGUsK0zi9V4
There is no way for me to punish, i have to acept my death since there is no way to counter him. or heroes need a major buff or he needs a nerf. it is one or the other

I'm sorry your wrong, I have had lawbreakers that know what they are doing stomp my shinobi. That guy dodged and evaded multiple times he failed (made a mistake) to dodge or counter a couple GBs and died

To win against the shinobi you have to be aggressive, if you turtle 🐢 (like the guy in the video)you will lose.

One thing I notice successfully lawbringer vs shinobi do is there unblockable skewer charge. They do it as the shinobi is backfliping as they can't escape.

XxHunterHxX
05-27-2017, 11:48 AM
they wont nerf it...it sells season pass to the a dead game...

Antonioj26
05-27-2017, 01:35 PM
I'm sorry your wrong, I have had lawbreakers that know what they are doing stomp my shinobi. That guy dodged and evaded multiple times he failed (made a mistake) to dodge or counter a couple GBs and died

To win against the shinobi you have to be aggressive, if you turtle 🐢 (like the guy in the video)you will lose.

One thing I notice successfully lawbringer vs shinobi do is there unblockable skewer charge. They do it as the shinobi is backfliping as they can't escape.

I hate to break it to you friend, but You just suck with shinobi. the last couple lines proves how little you know about the game. First off the "skewer charge" isn't unblockable plus the recovery for the back flip will allow the shin to counter kick the law that tries it and now the law will be completely out of stam since "skewer charge" is a stam killer.

Lord_Nirgal
05-27-2017, 01:53 PM
honestly i'm quitting the game.

in a few months i'll be back to check if ubi has changed something. As it is now 4v4 is totally unfun, 1v1 2v2 are shinobi based games.

cya.

AdeptusLupos
05-27-2017, 03:13 PM
I hate to break it to you friend, but You just suck with shinobi. the last couple lines proves how little you know about the game. First off the "skewer charge" isn't unblockable plus the recovery for the back flip will allow the shin to counter kick the law that tries it and now the law will be completely out of stam since "skewer charge" is a stam killer.

1. Never said I was great with the shinobi, said I did alot better on my Orochi.

2. Never said I know alot about the names or skills of classes I don't play (lawbringer) maybe it's not unblockable but if you use it right away while shinobi is in the backflip animation he has almost no time to escape it.

3. Every class can beat shinobi if
A. You know how to play your class well
B. You learn shinobis moves and weaknesses like you had to learn every other class

4. Case in point here are a bunch of videos of lawbringer beating shinobis

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oDuvQRkyq8E

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cj30-ZOR-Sc

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hbaoyXWG0iY

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lCq7NB4iAjA

That last video is a great example of how to deal with shinobi, be aggressive. Stop being a 🐢.


"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle." -Sun Tzu

What he is trying to say is, learn to play.

If you want to fight me you can add me, you talk a big game. I'm not the best player but I'm not terrible either, and I'm not blind enough to think the shinobi is op.

If I wanted to play an OP class I would play warlord, or atleast go back to my Orochi I did great with him. I play the Japanese characters because I think they should make it that you can only use the characters from your faction. Or have a penalty for using characters from other factions.

Antonioj26
05-27-2017, 03:39 PM
1. Never said I was great with the shinobi, said I did alot better on my Orochi.

2. Never said I know alot about the names or skills of classes I don't play (lawbringer) maybe it's not unblockable but if you use it right away while shinobi is in the backflip animation he has almost no time to escape it.

3. Every class can beat shinobi if
A. You know how to play your class well
B. You learn shinobis moves and weaknesses like you had to learn every other class

4. Case in point here are a bunch of videos of lawbringer beating shinobis

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oDuvQRkyq8E

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cj30-ZOR-Sc

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hbaoyXWG0iY

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lCq7NB4iAjA

That last video is a great example of how to deal with shinobi, be aggressive. Stop being a ��.


"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle." -Sun Tzu

What he is trying to say is, learn to play.

If you want to fight me you can add me, you talk a big game. I'm not the best player but I'm not terrible either, and I'm not blind enough to think the shinobi is op.

If I wanted to play an OP class I would play warlord, or atleast go back to my Orochi I did great with him. I play the Japanese characters because I think they should make it that you can only use the characters from your faction. Or have a penalty for using characters from other factions.

1. then you offering advice on how people beat you is garbage since you dont know how to play him

2. Your wrong and it doesnt work so again stop giving bad advice based on you being bad

3. no one is saying that shinobi is unbeatable, they are saying his kick and by extension is op

4. all these videos are of terrible shinobis that are taking top heavies from gb (which arent confirmed since you know so little about the class), arent abusing the kick, throwing out raw heavies, throwing out ranged gb while being a few feat from him, and dashing while next to the LB and OOS. There are a ton more mistakes that these bad shins were making but I'm not going to list them. If you cant recognize the simple errors that they were making then you are worse than I thought

These are all terrible shinobis and these wouldnt work on the shinobi in the video originally posted in this thread. Stop trying to preach to people about this re tarded class when you dont even know the basics of the game. You are garbage if you think these videos are evidence of how to beat a half decent shinobi.

how about this, you hop on whatever character you like and I'll show you my day 2 shinobi. Hes less than level 10 and I will show you that regardless of your knowledge of shinobi and whatever class you pick I will beat you. add me on psn Alyssaa-3

kanuzira
05-27-2017, 03:44 PM
1. Never said I was great with the shinobi, said I did alot better on my Orochi.

2. Never said I know alot about the names or skills of classes I don't play (lawbringer) maybe it's not unblockable but if you use it right away while shinobi is in the backflip animation he has almost no time to escape it.

3. Every class can beat shinobi if
A. You know how to play your class well
B. You learn shinobis moves and weaknesses like you had to learn every other class

4. Case in point here are a bunch of videos of lawbringer beating shinobis

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oDuvQRkyq8E

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cj30-ZOR-Sc

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hbaoyXWG0iY

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lCq7NB4iAjA

That last video is a great example of how to deal with shinobi, be aggressive. Stop being a ��.


"If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle." -Sun Tzu

What he is trying to say is, learn to play.

If you want to fight me you can add me, you talk a big game. I'm not the best player but I'm not terrible either, and I'm not blind enough to think the shinobi is op.

If I wanted to play an OP class I would play warlord, or atleast go back to my Orochi I did great with him. I play the Japanese characters because I think they should make it that you can only use the characters from your faction. Or have a penalty for using characters from other factions.

You belong to the advanced stupid people. During my matches i wrecked his butt comepletely, After 2 matches he went to do that technique, if you go in agressive you get parried / grabbed and punished. The lawbringer hasn't any kind of surprise openers to avoid being parried. i have litterly tried everything and i could not get to him since the kick is just OP on this hero. you dont even know how to olay LB so how can you make an assumption how to play with him. the only way to deal with him is when he is close by and not from a distance. in your video's the shinobi is always close by and not a hell of a lot distance away. so please make an accesment when you have all the proper information.

and your socalled weakness is after the jump kick miss but as you can see it is unpunishable for me.

AdeptusLupos
05-27-2017, 04:01 PM
1. then you offering advice on how people beat you is garbage since you dont know how to play him

2. Your wrong and it doesnt work so again stop giving bad advice based on you being bad

3. no one is saying that shinobi is unbeatable, they are saying his kick and by extension is op

4. all these videos are of terrible shinobis that are taking top heavies from gb (which arent confirmed since you know so little about the class), arent abusing the kick, throwing out raw heavies, throwing out ranged gb while being a few feat from him, and dashing while next to the LB and OOS. There are a ton more mistakes that these bad shins were making but I'm not going to list them. If you cant recognize the simple errors that they were making then you are worse than I thought

These are all terrible shinobis and these wouldnt work on the shinobi in the video originally posted in this thread. Stop trying to preach to people about this re tarded class when you dont even know the basics of the game. You are garbage if you think these videos are evidence of how to beat a half decent shinobi.

how about this, you hop on whatever character you like and I'll show you my day 2 shinobi. Hes less than level 10 and I will show you that regardless of your knowledge of shinobi and whatever class you pick I will beat you. add me on psn Alyssaa-3

1. it is not garbage im not terrible with him, I do fine with him. I just did better with other characters, hence the Im not the best, does not make me garbage, and does not make my advice invalid. sorry you had trouble beating shinobis, I don't. maybe that says more about YOUR ability as a player than my ability with the shinobi.

2. it does work, I have seen it work. I may not know how to best play with the law bringer but people that do know the class well can easily beat shinobi just as any other class can if you know the class well.

3. the kick is not op, you have multiple options, you see the player stating his double dodge, start swinging a heavy attack, shinobi will eat the heavy, half his health will be gone, and you playing any other class will maybe have 75% of your health remaining( if your playing a squishy). a trade not in favor of the shinobi. again learn to fight against the shinobi better.

4. so I post 4 videos of 4 shinobis losing to 4 lawbrings, and "those are just ****ty shinobis"........................hypocrisy much? how about the players losing to the shinobi are just ****ty at their own respective class? because you are basically the pot calling the kettle black right now. if shinobi was so OP then a ****ty player would do good with him yes? that is the point right? oh is that inconvenient for your argument?..... again nothing about the shinobi is OP.

my name is the same name as it is on here, except the L is lower case. if you want to fight me so bad, since every post you make is +add me lets fight. then you can add me, and when I have time I will fight you.

Antonioj26
05-27-2017, 04:06 PM
1. it is not garbage im not terrible with him, I do fine with him. I just did better with other characters, hence the Im not the best, does not make me garbage, and does not make my advice invalid. sorry you had trouble beating shinobis, I don't. maybe that says more about YOUR ability as a player than my ability with the shinobi.

2. it does work, I have seen it work. I may not know how to best play with the law bringer but people that do know the class well can easily beat shinobi just as any other class can if you know the class well.

3. the kick is not op, you have multiple options, you see the player stating his double dodge, start swinging a heavy attack, shinobi will eat the heavy, half his health will be gone, and you playing any other class will maybe have 75% of your health remaining( if your playing a squishy). a trade not in favor of the shinobi. again learn to fight against the shinobi better.

4. so I post 4 videos of 4 shinobis losing to 4 lawbrings, and "those are just ****ty shinobis"........................hypocrisy much? how about the players losing to the shinobi are just ****ty at their own respective class? because you are basically the pot calling the kettle black right now. if shinobi was so OP then a ****ty player would do good with him yes? that is the point right? oh is that inconvenient for your argument?..... again nothing about the shinobi is OP.

my name is the same name as it is on here, except the L is lower case. if you want to fight me so bad, since every post you make is +add me lets fight. then you can add me, and when I have time I will fight you.

1. You are terrible with him though if you are posting those videos and using that as evidence as to how to beat a shinobi since that wont work on anyone that is half decent.

2. Then you wont have any trouble doing it to me or beating me on my day 2 shinobi

3. That will work on crappy shinobis that stay in range of the heavy with the kick

4. whats the hypocrisy? Those shins were absolute garbage, dude. It's not like I just said it and didn't back it up with anything. I gave examples on how terrible they are and why.

Request sent, hope you dont mind me uploading the videos of how wrong you are.

Pasan90
05-27-2017, 04:50 PM
The problem with shinobi is that we have to wait for you doing a mistake, all the while being spammed with the most obnoxius attack in the game. It is not fun, you dont become a better player and its not very rewarding to beat you at all. As a rep 16 zerk, ive killed a lot of shibs and i still hate the class with a passion. Id rather fight a rep 30 warlord or warden than a beginner shib. Beacuse the class is built to be obnoxius to a level even PK can just dream of.

The shib kick is not punishable like the warden shoulder charge, nobushi kick or warlord headbut. Its punishable only by trade or blocking the following heavy for a free gb. The "just dodge" argument is also a dumb one, good shins do the kick when they know you cant dodge into a free heavy. And they can always 5050 it into gb since you cant dodge on reaction. Shib kick got hyper armor that beat other hyper armors like the warlord and zerks (for some reason) and its range is massive, way bigger than the nobushi kick or warlord headbut. Dodge into gb is also not a thing against it.

Basically a shinobi always have the initiative in a fight and always have the possibility to capitalize on oppertunities while minimizing risks. And its frikkin annoying to play against even if i win.

Y_Shrewditch
05-27-2017, 05:16 PM
4. so I post 4 videos of 4 shinobis losing to 4 lawbrings, and "those are just ****ty shinobis"........................hypocrisy much? how about the players losing to the shinobi are just ****ty at their own respective class? because you are basically the pot calling the kettle black right now. if shinobi was so OP then a ****ty player would do good with him yes? that is the point right? oh is that inconvenient for your argument?..... again nothing about the shinobi is OP.



OP doesn't mean unbeatable, OP means having an above-normal chance at success, ESPECIALLY when you use the proper technique.

Here's the thing, I can mostly beat Shinobi's (with Nobushi which is a great counter) as long as I don't make any mistakes while they do. I will lose to most Shinobi's that don't make mistakes, even if I didn't make any myself. Missing the guess on the kick-followup is losing a gamble, one which the Shinobi can backflip from.

That's the difference, as far as I can tell, win or lose is entirely up to the Shinobi's skill and not so much my own.

Your videos prove that point nicely, all those Shinobi's messed up and got punished, but when they didn't make any mistakes, they won. The fight seems entirely in their favor.

Your argument that because not everyone wins when on Shinobi is a straw-man argument; with equal skill the Shinobi has the advantage, with lesser skill he dies fast. Some people, like me, just can't master the right techniques or are willing to use the OP moves he has.

I don't want him nerfed to the ground, but your arguments are rather counter-productive and are proving the point of those who do.

AdeptusLupos
05-27-2017, 06:48 PM
OP doesn't mean unbeatable, OP means having an above-normal chance at success, ESPECIALLY when you use the proper technique.

Here's the thing, I can mostly beat Shinobi's (with Nobushi which is a great counter) as long as I don't make any mistakes while they do. I will lose to most Shinobi's that don't make mistakes, even if I didn't make any myself. Missing the guess on the kick-followup is losing a gamble, one which the Shinobi can backflip from.

That's the difference, as far as I can tell, win or lose is entirely up to the Shinobi's skill and not so much my own.

Your videos prove that point nicely, all those Shinobi's messed up and got punished, but when they didn't make any mistakes, they won. The fight seems entirely in their favor.

Your argument that because not everyone wins when on Shinobi is a straw-man argument; with equal skill the Shinobi has the advantage, with lesser skill he dies fast. Some people, like me, just can't master the right techniques or are willing to use the OP moves he has.

I don't want him nerfed to the ground, but your arguments are rather counter-productive and are proving the point of those who do.

I'm going to disagree with you for a couple reasons I will list and then I will give a concession.

1. Watch the majority of score cards at the end of a match, the majority of shinobis will have a negative k/d ratio. Are there some rock stars? Yes but that is true of every class.

2. If shinobi was op then even bad players would do well with him. They would at least always have a neutral or positive k/d ratio
And that's just not the case. If you nerf him, he may become useless because he is borderline right now.

3. Just because there are a handful of people that are great with him does not mean he is op.

4. (partial concession) while the shinobi seems to do better at 1v1 fights. He has a terrible time with 1v2 or more fights. On other characters, when another person gets in my fight I know I still have a good chance of winning if I play my cards right. Shinobi just seems to be able to run away, and has to wait for back up. Now I have won a handful of 2v1 on my shinobi, But they where few and far between and usually involved lodging 1 or more people, which is highly situational.

5. I would like ubi to release the global stats, such as k/d on Shinobi to end this argument. I'm 80% sure that they will prove shinobi is a mid tier character not top. While shinobi may be annoying alot of people and "unfun" to play against does not make him op. I don't lime playing against kensi, or warlord, or valkerie. Does that mean they should be nerfed? Or removed as some are calling for?

Antonioj26
05-27-2017, 06:58 PM
I'm going to disagree with you for a couple reasons I will list and then I will give a concession.

1. Watch the majority of score cards at the end of a match, the majority of shinobis will have a negative k/d ratio. Are there some rock stars? Yes but that is true of every class.

2. If shinobi was op then even bad players would do well with him. They would at least always have a neutral or positive k/d ratio
And that's just not the case. If you nerf him, he may become useless because he is borderline right now.

3. Just because there are a handful of people that are great with him does not mean he is op.

4. (partial concession) while the shinobi seems to do better at 1v1 fights. He has a terrible time with 1v2 or more fights. On other characters, when another person gets in my fight I know I still have a good chance of winning if I play my cards right. Shinobi just seems to be able to run away, and has to wait for back up. Now I have won a handful of 2v1 on my shinobi, But they where few and far between and usually involved lodging 1 or more people, which is highly situational.

5. I would like ubi to release the global stats, such as k/d on Shinobi to end this argument. I'm 80% sure that they will prove shinobi is a mid tier character not top. While shinobi may be annoying alot of people and "unfun" to play against does not make him op. I don't lime playing against kensi, or warlord, or valkerie. Does that mean they should be nerfed? Or removed as some are calling for?

1. terrible players arent indicators of what or what doesnt make a class OP. See ana from overwatch, shes a high skill cap character but still was consistent pick In high level play

2. Go back to my ana reference in 1.

3. How do you know its a handful? Got numbers? Is that really relevant even if you did? If only 2 people knew about the warden glitch and didnt tell anyone else would it be okay that they kept it in the game?

4. not going to address this point because who cares about 1v2 fights?

5. Again global stats arent good indicators. If the overwhelming majority of people suck with shin it doesnt negate the ones who absolutely destroy with him. It doesnt change his tier, Ana probably had pretty S hit stats too because of her skill cap but that doesnt stop people from rocking a$$ with her.

if noobs suck with shinobi then they can either get better or switch. Thats not a good enough reason to not nerf someone because the majority suck with a character if the people who know how to abuse him are absolutely dominating. Like I said You can show me how to deal with the kick when you get free time. I'll upload the videos so you can either teach everyone a lesson on how to beat shin or you will have to eat your words, either result im pretty happy with honestly.

AdeptusLupos
05-27-2017, 07:16 PM
The problem with shinobi is that we have to wait for you doing a mistake, all the while being spammed with the most obnoxius attack in the game. It is not fun, you dont become a better player and its not very rewarding to beat you at all. As a rep 16 zerk, ive killed a lot of shibs and i still hate the class with a passion. Id rather fight a rep 30 warlord or warden than a beginner shib. Beacuse the class is built to be obnoxius to a level even PK can just dream of.

The shib kick is not punishable like the warden shoulder charge, nobushi kick or warlord headbut. Its punishable only by trade or blocking the following heavy for a free gb. The "just dodge" argument is also a dumb one, good shins do the kick when they know you cant dodge into a free heavy. And they can always 5050 it into gb since you cant dodge on reaction. Shib kick got hyper armor that beat other hyper armors like the warlord and zerks (for some reason) and its range is massive, way bigger than the nobushi kick or warlord headbut. Dodge into gb is also not a thing against it.

Basically a shinobi always have the initiative in a fight and always have the possibility to capitalize on oppertunities while minimizing risks. And its frikkin annoying to play against even if i win.

I'll be honest with you, I hated fighting zeros on my Orochi, yea I could beat you but it was not fun, it didn't make me a better player, and you are annoying with your "spin to win". Also your hits do way to much damage. I think we should nerf zerkers,

That's what you sound like to me. I don't really think zerks should be nerfed, I just got better and learned to deal with them, just like you need to with shinobi.

D4_Grizzly
05-27-2017, 07:18 PM
The chars are overpowered, that ppl buy season pass. U'll see after everyone get them, then they will be equal.

AdeptusLupos
05-27-2017, 07:23 PM
I should be home in a couple hours, I'm on German time. We can still fight eachother right, Even though I'm stationed in Germany?

I'll be honest I'm not sure to what extent the region locking will affect our duel. I'm hoping it still allows us to connect I have a fast connection 100 megs.

Antonioj26
05-27-2017, 07:36 PM
I should be home in a couple hours, I'm on German time. We can still fight eachother right, Even though I'm stationed in Germany?

I'll be honest I'm not sure to what extent the region locking will affect our duel. I'm hoping it still allows us to connect I have a fast connection 100 megs.

I play with people from europe and despite us having fast connection there is some noticable lag

Knight_Raime
05-27-2017, 07:55 PM
There technically are punishes to his kick and if he backflips off of it. the problem is only 7 of the 13 heros even have a way to punish one or the other. and of those 7 only 3-4 of them can punish both. So while punishing exists for the shin you can't really force a consistent one unless you're one of the few specific heros.

all that needs to be done is a more consistent way for people to punish him. That's left pretty vague. So for instance we can have heros that are better at punishing his kick. but bad at punishing his ranged attacks or other mix ups. We can have heros that are good at handling his mix ups. but not good at handling his kick. etc etc. and we can even have bad matchups for shin. currently the only one is shugoki.

we just need more consistency. that's all.

Y_Shrewditch
05-27-2017, 09:49 PM
I'm going to disagree with you for a couple reasons I will list and then I will give a concession.


Nice, let's keep it civil, I like that.



1. Watch the majority of score cards at the end of a match, the majority of shinobis will have a negative k/d ratio. Are there some rock stars? Yes but that is true of every class.

2. If shinobi was op then even bad players would do well with him. They would at least always have a neutral or positive k/d ratio
And that's just not the case. If you nerf him, he may become useless because he is borderline right now.

3. Just because there are a handful of people that are great with him does not mean he is op.


Well, this is basically a repeat of the straw-man argument. A tool can be hard to use, but if mastered be extremely powerful, right? Still doesn't do much for those that haven't mastered it.

Just because not everyone who picks him does well does not mean that the ones that can use him have the edge over everyone else.



4. (partial concession) while the shinobi seems to do better at 1v1 fights. He has a terrible time with 1v2 or more fights. On other characters, when another person gets in my fight I know I still have a good chance of winning if I play my cards right. Shinobi just seems to be able to run away, and has to wait for back up. Now I have won a handful of 2v1 on my shinobi, But they where few and far between and usually involved lodging 1 or more people, which is highly situational.


I get it, I really do. I've gotten mine to rep2 and it's been the saltiest experience of all the heroes I tried. Two mistakes and he's gone, and trust me, I make lots of mistakes. At first I thought he was underpowered, his squishiness just doesn't allow room for error, nor ganks. I really wanted to main him, still do, but I noticed that I can only make it work off of the kicks or lightspam like an ADHD PK on crack.

And that's the main issue I think, his one safe move is too safe, the rest is too risky, which inevitably leads to over-using the safer option.



5. I would like ubi to release the global stats, such as k/d on Shinobi to end this argument. I'm 80% sure that they will prove shinobi is a mid tier character not top. While shinobi may be annoying alot of people and "unfun" to play against does not make him op. I don't lime playing against kensi, or warlord, or valkerie. Does that mean they should be nerfed? Or removed as some are calling for?

I honestly don't know what needs to happen to him, or to the other heroes to balance it out. I honestly don't want to see him gone or nerfed to the ground. But just as the PK, or the beta-Valkyrie, sometimes tweaks need to happen to bring it back to balance.

The high death-rate of Shinobi's may very well be for the same reason as the high kill count; people's inexperience with him. I know mine is. So it's a good thing the devs wait out the hype in order to get some more representable numbers in before they decide what to do. Same goes for the Centurion btw.

Here on the boards we get to exchange our ideas about the gameplay, and occasionally pass the salt ;) But so far, most if not all of the experienced players strutting their stuff on YouTube say Shinobi's got the edge, and I might as well assume they know what they are talking about.