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View Full Version : Did the new heroes ruin the game even more



GladiatorHood
05-22-2017, 08:26 PM
Did they?

Prior_Heahmund
05-22-2017, 08:30 PM
No. Cents are hard in groups (a bit too hard), and 'Nobies kick is an issue (but if you catch them they die fast). Other than that its fine. People only post when they want to complain. If you give half of them a bag of gold they would complain that it was to heavy.

dekot11
05-22-2017, 08:34 PM
People keep saying that but I only play duels and cent is a problem. One mistake and my stamina is gone and so is half my hp. One mistake near a wall and the round is over. That's not fun to fight. It feels like a squishy boss fight.

N-trX
05-22-2017, 08:41 PM
Not yet, probally will tommorow ;)

YuBiShiGouShi
05-22-2017, 08:53 PM
I quit every lobby that has a shinobi in it. They're a hero that rewards a coward.

Antonioj26
05-22-2017, 08:57 PM
People keep saying that but I only play duels and cent is a problem. One mistake and my stamina is gone and so is half my hp. One mistake near a wall and the round is over. That's not fun to fight. It feels like a squishy boss fight.

He is probably one of the characters that punishes the hardest if you make a mistake. Once he gets you out of stam defending yourself gets to be quite difficult

dekot11
05-22-2017, 09:05 PM
He is probably one of the characters that punishes the hardest if you make a mistake. Once he gets you out of stam defending yourself gets to be quite difficult

I'll be happy with him if they lower the stamina drain (even better if they take out stamina drain attacks out of the game entirely) and if they take out wallsplat from his jabs. He would still have his crazy mix-ups and combo damage. He might actually end up being fun to fight.

Antonioj26
05-22-2017, 09:11 PM
I'll be happy with him if they lower the stamina drain (even better if they take out stamina drain attacks out of the game entirely) and if they take out wallsplat from his jabs. He would still have his crazy mix-ups and combo damage. He might actually end up being fun to fight.

Taking away the stun effect would work for me, it's small but I think it's enough to make defending yourself a little more plausible without completely nerfing it. Wall splat can be a bit much since it can be combod in to a 95 damage confirm, which is by far the highest wall splat to the best of my knowledge aside from his infinite wallsplat which I'm sure that one will be gone soon.

SplugeKing
05-22-2017, 09:20 PM
Taking away the stun effect would work for me, it's small but I think it's enough to make defending yourself a little more plausible without completely nerfing it..

This would be a good place to start for the centurion

Danioku
05-22-2017, 09:24 PM
J u s t d o d g e !!1!1!!!

NOT_PeaceKeeper
05-22-2017, 09:35 PM
Yup it did, If i see two or more Cent on a team I quit. No reason to subject myself to that corny stunlock gank squad. Never quit before, but for now I just stopped playing the game again. Ill try the new characters out tomorrow but after that Ill be back on the next balance pass hopefully.

Sir_rage_quit
05-22-2017, 10:05 PM
Yes they did for me at least

Pope138
05-22-2017, 10:48 PM
I think so.
I've only played against them in custom practice sessions, but my problem isn't their movset, it's the actual characters themselves. They don't feel like they belong in this game. Cheapened the whole experience for me.
This feels like a good time to take a break from For Honor.

Duuklah
05-23-2017, 05:33 AM
Playing VS Centurion is the most annoying experience in the game.

bananaflow2017
05-23-2017, 12:51 PM
Playing VS Centurion is the most annoying experience in the game.

Nope i guess it's playing against 2 of them.

kweassa1917
05-23-2017, 12:57 PM
...baseless accusations... blanket statements out of context... incessant whining... inaccurate and flawed statements... exaggeration and overblowing stuff...


Naw, the game's same. Doesn't matter what new class there is. The people behind them are still the same wankers.

Obdach01
05-23-2017, 01:24 PM
Did they?

No. They made the game even more fun... and I am not playing the new ones... just kicking their easy butts, because they are so weak...

EmeraldCthulhu
05-23-2017, 01:53 PM
They ruined it for me - both are perfect examples of bad design, Centurion being the pinnacle of nonsane. Fighting against them is very unfun and dominion is just unplayable.

Athwaldeacer
05-23-2017, 05:25 PM
Biggest issue is that the new characters have a bug with revenge. When revenge is activated, guard breaks still go through during activation. And attacks also land and the other players are not knocked down. Did 5 tests on this and all of them came up positive. Just a slight bug that needs to be fixed.

IMO I think they should never have added more ranged elements into a melee game, such as the ninja's heavies and GB, but oh well.

manna91
05-23-2017, 05:30 PM
Just wait till people get used to them. Its super hard to fight some of them now because we arent as familiar with them. Give it time and also give them time to balance them just like they did with all the other guys. And for Cent focus more dodging then blocks and parries, easy to punish him when he misses a charged heavy or a leap.

dekot11
05-23-2017, 05:49 PM
It's ridiculous that people try to defend the new characters. Yeah, their attacks are dodgeable, so what? It would be ******ed if they were unblockable, unparriable, and undodgeable. Two of the biggest complaints people had about the game pre-patch were spammable unblockables and 500ms lights. And both new characters have both. That is dumb.

But it doesn't even just end there. They both get more free damage than any of the old characters were able to put out. People were complaining about LB's shove into a dodgeable light attack, and warlord's free light after a headbutt. The worst used to be warden's two lights. Compare that with what these two new characters get in terms of guaranteed damage off their spam.

I don't care how awesome you are at the game and how many centurions and ninjas you eat for breakfast, if you can't see that this is extreme power creep you are being willfully blind.

manna91
05-23-2017, 06:07 PM
Just as ridiculous as people complaining about two character that can literally die in 3 hits if you aren't trash. They will fix the characters when they can, they first have to see how they play in the community. Till then you can either keep crying, stop playing the game or learn to not be a baby and enjoy the game. Learn to adapt your play style to your opponent, if you fight everyone the same way you are obviously going to suck against certain people, especially new people who you aren't accustom to fighting.

dekot11
05-23-2017, 07:21 PM
Just as ridiculous as people complaining about two character that can literally die in 3 hits if you aren't trash. They will fix the characters when they can, they first have to see how they play in the community. Till then you can either keep crying, stop playing the game or learn to not be a baby and enjoy the game. Learn to adapt your play style to your opponent, if you fight everyone the same way you are obviously going to suck against certain people, especially new people who you aren't accustom to fighting.

What play style? dodge or lose? that's fun for you? The fact is that the two new characters have way more tools than everybody else. They get the fastest lights in the game and more unblockables than most of the old cast. Lower hp doesn't balance them. It just makes more fights that are all or nothing. That isn't fun.

manna91
05-23-2017, 07:49 PM
Well yes the game is fun for me. Learning how to fight new opponents is what makes this game great. Not crying because I'm not able to get easy wins. Shinobi's lights are fast, agreed, but not impossible to block once you get used to him, and he is squishy as hell. And Centurion is easy if you know how to space yourself. Ends up forcing your opponent to do more charged heavies to close the distance giving you the opportunity to punish off a dodge. If you are outmatched in strength, use strategy.

SirCorrino
05-23-2017, 08:04 PM
Yes, it made 4v4 absolutely miserable. Cent has so much CC you don't even get to do stuff in teamfights against him. Shinobi has the stupid kick and if he's the last person standing good luck ever catching him. Had several games where the full Breaking timer runs out because a Shinobi is just weeb-running away and the winning team just gives up chasing him.

I honestly don't believe for a second that the devs have playtested these heroes AT ALL. There's just no way they could have done that and still release it like this.

dekot11
05-23-2017, 09:42 PM
Well yes the game is fun for me. Learning how to fight new opponents is what makes this game great. Not crying because I'm not able to get easy wins. Shinobi's lights are fast, agreed, but not impossible to block once you get used to him, and he is squishy as hell. And Centurion is easy if you know how to space yourself. Ends up forcing your opponent to do more charged heavies to close the distance giving you the opportunity to punish off a dodge. If you are outmatched in strength, use strategy.

dude you're not understanding me. I don't care if you beat every centurion and ninja you face, for all I know you can have trash mmr and might only be facing trash players playing those characters.

my point is that on paper, these two have way more tools than others. they objectively do more free damage off spam. those are objective facts, I don't care if you are a dodging master who never gets hit by any attack in this game, that is not my point. these two new guys are extreme power creep and it's not good for the game. understand?

Danioku
05-23-2017, 09:50 PM
both ******ed bugged heros with broken or cheesy mechanics in perfect Ubitrash style

manna91
05-23-2017, 10:16 PM
They really don't have more tools at all. They just have tools you aren't used to yet so its harder to deal with. But I get it, gotta get them salty tears out.

DeLatv
05-23-2017, 10:24 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1671085-POOL-Did-the-new-DLC-made-the-game-MORE-fun-or-LESS-fun?p=12655786#post12655786

54% that is more than half, kinda say it did affected the game more negative way...

Even its only "133" votes, id say above 50% means they did ****ed it up...

And i think its cos of unblockable attacks again. Its just not fun to play against heroes whos only defense is dodge... there needs to have unblockable parry or some sort.
Unblockable attacks should be a rarity 5-10% of attacks, an unexpected, surprising attack otherwise heavily punishable (Valkyrie), or being an punish move like Lawbringer. (after block shove)
It should never exist in form of strong opener (Like Warlord/Conq/Cent/Warden/Shinobi) They all have a common attack that majority dislikes, and every single one of the had or will be nerfed, hope devs will learn from it, not step on the same mistake again.

Duuklah
05-24-2017, 12:40 PM
It's ridiculous that people try to defend the new characters. Yeah, their attacks are dodgeable, so what? It would be ******ed if they were unblockable, unparriable, and undodgeable. Two of the biggest complaints people had about the game pre-patch were spammable unblockables and 500ms lights. And both new characters have both. That is dumb.

But it doesn't even just end there. They both get more free damage than any of the old characters were able to put out. People were complaining about LB's shove into a dodgeable light attack, and warlord's free light after a headbutt. The worst used to be warden's two lights. Compare that with what these two new characters get in terms of guaranteed damage off their spam.

I don't care how awesome you are at the game and how many centurions and ninjas you eat for breakfast, if you can't see that this is extreme power creep you are being willfully blind.

Exactly. Willful blindness because all those defending the Centurion are new Centurion mains who blew 10s of 1000s of silver on the toon.

Obdach01
05-24-2017, 02:06 PM
I'm a Valk main and just played Cent and Shinobi to get used to their movesets, so I can counter them with ease... which I can now. I understand some disappointment of some people, but they are by no means OP. They are Teamfighter, who get really hard to beat when 1vsX against them. Don't take them on more than 1vs1... and if it happens, get your damn team together to help you, else they melt you. Set a beacon and your team will come for help. If the other team is smart enough to utilize those to as a team (the only way they can shine... 1vs1 they are garbage), then get your team together.
Any game mode you are playing is a team game mode. Only 1vs1 is solo. If you fail to utilize your team, you have failed the game mode. It's not the new toons, it's you. YOu who is not able to adapt to a new game style, because there are new toons now. You want to keep playing the way you do, with no changes. And when something new comes, you want that new to adapt to you, and not you to the new.
Sorry guys... the problem is not the new situation, but you failing to adapt. In evelotion that's called natural selection. Adapt, or get melted by the new situation.

WFL_M4sT3R_
05-24-2017, 02:11 PM
Did they?

After testing, and conclusions, Cent yes, Shinobi no, there are a lot of reasons why, i dont want to write again.

Cheers!

EmeraldCthulhu
05-24-2017, 02:16 PM
If you fail to utilize your team, you have failed the game mode. It's not the new toons, it's you. YOu who is not able to adapt to a new game style, because there are new toons now. You want to keep playing the way you do, with no changes. And when something new comes, you want that new to adapt to you, and not you to the new.
Sorry guys... the problem is not the new situation, but you failing to adapt. In evelotion that's called natural selection. Adapt, or get melted by the new situation.

This attitute is absurd. You do realise this is not real life - no one has to adapt. People play games to have fun, not to fight against annoying and frustrating mechanics.
When people come here and complain about the negative side of the game, they're saying "I would like to play this more and make the game better, this is what's wrong with it."
Waht you say is "Either accept or the nonsanse or just go and let the game die, they is no point in makin it any better."

A game should be made in a way take make the players want to play it, and the more players it can appeal to the better. Natural selection in a video game? Fastest way to kill the product. And then everybody loses.

SirCorrino
05-24-2017, 03:11 PM
I've decided to embrace the dark side and will only be playing Centurion in 4v4 modes except to complete non-hybrid specific Orders from now until they nerf him in 4v4. This is going to be so much fun.

Danioku
05-24-2017, 03:20 PM
Unpunishable and spammable (+ 33/33/33 guessing game) in the same move will never ever be balanced (Shinobi)

Tons of CC and tons of damage will never ever be balanced as well (Cent)

So yes, atm they are ruining my games, after balance they will be an interesting add to the game diversity.

The problem is again Ubisoft, releasing (as always) crap, broken or not working things and taking ages before any attempt of doing something to fix, and, as we already seen more than once, when they try to fix, they do even more damage to the game.

Times are biblic and, in the while, they leave the costumers with a crap/broken/unbalanced game for months

Worst game company ever seen.

RatedChaotic
05-24-2017, 03:32 PM
both ******ed bugged heros with broken or cheesy mechanics in perfect Ubitrash style

Your actually not far off. We located a bug or exploit last night and reported it to the team.They replied that they are going to look into it. If its intentional, Im changing my main instantly.

SirCorrino
05-24-2017, 03:35 PM
Your actually not far off. We located a bug or exploit last night and reported it to the team.They replied that they are going to look into it. If its intentional, Im changing my main instantly.

What bug?

RatedChaotic
05-24-2017, 03:38 PM
I will not make it public. Tho its probly already on youtube by now. We forward it to the team to look into thats all that needs to be said. From what we tested it doesnt look intentional but if it is intentional..... WoW.

Danioku
05-24-2017, 03:49 PM
1v1 they are trash every move u can see coming they only shine when they have ur back thats all

this affirmation prove 2 things: or you play vs really bad opponents that can be possible looking at your winrate or you really dont have any idea about how this game works.

Meet a proper Shinobi in 1v1 and you will see how he can kill you with just 1 spammable, unpunishable mixup: dodge into either kick/GB/parry. end of the fight.

You have little to no conterplay, he has unpunishable, spammable, guessing game mixup into free damage.

And... you cant really take any initiative vs Shinobi cause he can kick you on reaction even during your recovery time windows from heavy for example (didnt test on light attacks recovery).

So, just wait his mixup until you are dead. This is what a proper Shinobi does, and yes it cant be balanced. Only in Ubisoft world this can be even possible.

slasht14
05-24-2017, 04:36 PM
The game is dying.... this is the truth and its painful. Adding a teleporting ninja in the game makes it worse

kbvlcvfkhgc
05-24-2017, 06:12 PM
the Centurion is for me a nightmare, specifically in group matches, they essentially disable you and render you completely impotent, this stamina drain that they can inflict is the absolute killer, when i can get a Centurion on his own i can usually deal with them but the punish if you make one single mistake is so severe that it just seems way too OP, the only comparable is the Shugs back breaker but unlike the Shug the centurion has multiple mix ups and is way faster, and has absolutely no punish penalties if they miss unlike the back breaker

that's 1v1 but in group matches teams of 2 or more the Centurion are simply unstoppable, there is no effective way at present that i'am currently aware of to deal with them, the revenge mechanic that can save you against other Hero classes is rendered meaningless by the Cents move-set, if you get caught in their spam you cant do anything, skill is irrelevant and not a factor, your simply along for the ride until you die or are saved by your teammates, no other hero can do this in such an effective and all encompassing way, how Ubisoft will address balancing the Cent in group matches will be interesting to watch, if not i'm pretty sure that in time all we will see in group matches will be Centurions,

Ngallo22
05-24-2017, 06:22 PM
No, they are revolutionary in which they were designed specifically to eliminate this pathetic turtle meta. Obviously buffs/nerfs can be addressed but these heroes are exactly what this game needs.

dekot11
05-24-2017, 07:19 PM
No, they are revolutionary in which they were designed specifically to eliminate this pathetic turtle meta. Obviously buffs/nerfs can be addressed but these heroes are exactly what this game needs.

People keep saying the new heroes are a counter to the turtle meta but I'm pretty sure these characters were in development before the turtle meta was identified. But even if that were the case, it is an incredibly dumb way to address the meta with just two heroes. Especially when the devs have repeatedly stated that they are working on ways to fix the meta for everybody.

Also,

1) People who defend the new heroes keep saying that they are easily dodged/punished and they have to take risks and they are balanced because of their low health so they die super quick, etc.

2) They have some of the strongest punishes off mistakes their opponents make.

Combine these two facts and what do you get? Centurions and ninjas who play safe and passively... they turtle. So let's stop saying the new heroes are a counter to the turtle meta because that is just laughable.

Sir_rage_quit
05-24-2017, 07:26 PM
No, they are revolutionary in which they were designed specifically to eliminate this pathetic turtle meta. Obviously buffs/nerfs can be addressed but these heroes are exactly what this game needs.

the turtle meta was a think in 1v1 or 2v2 not a real problem in 4v4

Ngallo22
05-24-2017, 10:17 PM
People keep saying the new heroes are a counter to the turtle meta but I'm pretty sure these characters were in development before the turtle meta was identified. But even if that were the case, it is an incredibly dumb way to address the meta with just two heroes. Especially when the devs have repeatedly stated that they are working on ways to fix the meta for everybody.

Also,

1) People who defend the new heroes keep saying that they are easily dodged/punished and they have to take risks and they are balanced because of their low health so they die super quick, etc.

2) They have some of the strongest punishes off mistakes their opponents make.

Combine these two facts and what do you get? Centurions and ninjas who play safe and passively... they turtle. So let's stop saying the new heroes are a counter to the turtle meta because that is just laughable.

I can definitely see where this is coming from (as a previously rep 14 warden) but after playing around with the centurion, I have to respectfully disagree.

Even if the devs had these characters in mind before the identification, it was brought to attention during their development, in which they were able to make adjustments accordingly.

To address the second (valid) point, everyone has the opportunity to play defensively. However these characters have the least incentive too, since the Shinobi has little health and the Centurion is designed more for offensive/mix-up play.

Ngallo22
05-24-2017, 10:19 PM
the turtle meta was a think in 1v1 or 2v2 not a real problem in 4v4

centurion and shinobi, DEFINITELY not made for dominion lol

but yes, that's technically true. The problem in 4v4 is the outnumbered situations, but I still believe this meta exists in more direct encounters.

dekot11
05-24-2017, 10:21 PM
I can definitely see where this is coming from (as a previously rep 14 warden) but after playing around with the centurion, I have to respectfully disagree.

Even if the devs had these characters in mind before the identification, it was brought to attention during their development, in which they were able to make adjustments accordingly.

To address the second (valid) point, everyone has the opportunity to play defensively. However these characters have the least incentive too, since the Shinobi has little health and the Centurion is designed more for offensive/mix-up play.

being squishy makes you play safer, not more aggressive

dekot11
05-24-2017, 10:24 PM
I can definitely see where this is coming from (as a previously rep 14 warden) but after playing around with the centurion, I have to respectfully disagree.

Even if the devs had these characters in mind before the identification, it was brought to attention during their development, in which they were able to make adjustments accordingly.

To address the second (valid) point, everyone has the opportunity to play defensively. However these characters have the least incentive too, since the Shinobi has little health and the Centurion is designed more for offensive/mix-up play.

having moves that are easily dodged (as centurion mains keep telling us) makes you play safer, not more aggressive.

in either case, better players are turtling with both centurion and shinobi so it's not like this is a hypothetical

colling1212
05-24-2017, 10:43 PM
They need sorting out badly. The shinobi is just a joke having a guy going invisible and constantly running away in a fighting game is boring and annoying. Centurion is just a stamina draining arse hole

Playlanco
05-24-2017, 10:52 PM
No. Cents are hard in groups (a bit too hard), and 'Nobies kick is an issue (but if you catch them they die fast). Other than that its fine. People only post when they want to complain. If you give half of them a bag of gold they would complain that it was to heavy.

so basically they ruin the game even more....

Ngallo22
05-24-2017, 11:10 PM
having moves that are easily dodged (as centurion mains keep telling us) makes you play safer, not more aggressive.

in either case, better players are turtling with both centurion and shinobi so it's not like this is a hypothetical

So you're saying that only heroes that have strong defense play offensively... couldn't be further from the truth.

i can't think of an instance where a shinobi/ centurion plays defensively. all i hear people complain about is how offensive they are with the shinobi kick and the centurion cycle.

DerToSch
05-24-2017, 11:21 PM
So you're saying that only heroes that have strong defense play offensively... couldn't be further from the truth.

i can't think of an instance where a shinobi/ centurion plays defensively. all i hear people complain about is how offensive they are with the shinobi kick and the centurion cycle.

No need to play defensivly for long. They need one parry and you're getting butchered. At least against a Cent.

dekot11
05-24-2017, 11:30 PM
So you're saying that only heroes that have strong defense play offensively... couldn't be further from the truth.

i can't think of an instance where a shinobi/ centurion plays defensively. all i hear people complain about is how offensive they are with the shinobi kick and the centurion cycle.

did I say that?

why is warden top tier? everybody can turtle but warden can turtle while also breaking others turtles.

centurion is the samr eay except he gets so much more by waiting for an enemy to make a mistake.

just keep playing. you'll see good centurions eventually

Ngallo22
05-24-2017, 11:35 PM
did I say that?

why is warden top tier? everybody can turtle but warden can turtle while also breaking others turtles.

centurion is the samr eay except he gets so much more by waiting for an enemy to make a mistake.

just keep playing. you'll see good centurions eventually

no matter our opinions, hopefully the devs can figure something out to make both sides happy.

maybe i should take your advice for now and go back to my warden lol

Ngallo22
05-24-2017, 11:38 PM
No need to play defensivly for long. They need one parry and you're getting butchered. At least against a Cent.

if they open you up, you're done for.

The thing is, i'd rather this be the case then getting to memorize every inch of chainmail against my opponent by just watching and being afraid to commit lol

either way "you miss 100% of the shots you don't take"