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View Full Version : Love the 2 new DLC heroes.. Tips to bring OG heroes up to speed.



Rryukenshin
05-22-2017, 02:39 PM
So as the title states I love the direction the new heroes are taking. More combos, more mix-ups, more ways to handle fighting against different heroes. One thing is very apparent though and that is that most of the OG (original) heroes need to have more added to their kit to bring them up to the standards set by the DLC. Each hero needs to have either an unblockable or some kind of bash/kick/etc. Let's be honest, heroes without an unblockable/ bash are at a disadvantage. I main Orochi and even though we have light attack/ Zone attack "50-50" it is stale and extremely 1 dimensional. Also, add more combos to each hero. The idea of an "easy" class isn't really necessary. You are going to have people that are beginners and only use 1 or 2 combos regardless of whether or not there are more combos available. This shouldn't handicap the heroes potential.

It would also be cool to see something unique for some (or all) of the heroes. Really cool how Cent has pin and even a feat that pins and synergizes with the rest of his kit. I have no idea what this could be for other heroes but I'm just throwing the idea out there.

Overall, don't nerf the crap out of the new DLC heroes. They really aren't that bad and have their weaknesses just like all of the other classes. The other classes just need to be buffed to the level of the DLC characters.

Thanks Ubisoft for a great DLC and i can't wait for the next one!!

The_B0G_
05-22-2017, 02:54 PM
Whats the Cents weakness? He gets one parry and you get locked into unblockable spam until dead.

AndersenThree
05-22-2017, 04:20 PM
Centurion is still sort of squishy. He isn't as bad as the Shinobi with his health pool but I can kill him with like three heavies and a light. Of course, I play an LB, but I don't hit any harder than most people. I don't really have any issues with the centurion.

UbiJurassic
05-23-2017, 02:17 AM
Thanks for the kind words and your feedback, Rryukenshin! And welcome to the forums!

CandleInTheDark
05-23-2017, 03:04 AM
How dare you come in here with a well reasoned post ;) Some good thoughts here, I tend to agree that I prefer buffs rather than nerfs, it would be interesting to see some of the older heroes given more options.

dekot11
05-23-2017, 03:13 AM
How dare you come in here with a well reasoned post ;) Some good thoughts here, I tend to agree that I prefer buffs rather than nerfs, it would be interesting to see some of the older heroes given more options.

You want to see all the characters jump around at whim and have spammable unblockables and do massive stamina damage and lights as fast as PK? We might as well go play a more traditional side scrolling fighter at that point. This game was cool because it was slow and methodical sword fighting. People hated pk because she just needed to mash buttons without caring about mindgames.

Power creep is never good for games and I haven't seen power creep this drastic this quick in any game I've played.

bmason1000
05-23-2017, 03:15 AM
Balance is such a tricky thing. Not having unblockables and shoves is the only thing keeping some of the old heroes in check. If you give berserker an unblockable or a shove thats actually useful in their combos, they'd be absolute monsters. I mean I'll take it, I'm fine with wiping everyone out haha, but its definitely a very tricky proposition. If they could make it work and it actually leveled the playing field, awesome. I'm for it.

bmason1000
05-23-2017, 03:41 AM
You want to see all the characters jump around at whim and have spammable unblockables and do massive stamina damage and lights as fast as PK? We might as well go play a more traditional side scrolling fighter at that point. This game was cool because it was slow and methodical sword fighting. People hated pk because she just needed to mash buttons without caring about mindgames.

Power creep is never good for games and I haven't seen power creep this drastic this quick in any game I've played.

I don't think anyone would suggest that all heroes have unblockables you can spam freely, non stop stamina attacks or nigh unreactable lights. Or at least i hope not, because you're right that'd be terrible.

I definitely see what you're getting at with the "power creep," though. If each batch of characters are a step up and then the cast gets buffed to catch up, eventually it ends in the scenario you're describing. I definitely miss the s1 days. This off season was the perfect state of for honor in my opinion.

SnugglesIV
05-23-2017, 04:06 AM
I can get behind this. After all, Shinobi is pretty much a power creeped version of Orochi. I really don't see any way the Orochi can compete with Shinobi, except for more health.

CandleInTheDark
05-23-2017, 11:23 AM
Some things do need fixing like yes the kick should be at the very least punishable on a miss, but where it isn't gamebreaking, it is also better to buff characters towards the level of others rather than nerf from the top.

kanuzira
05-23-2017, 11:33 AM
So as the title states I love the direction the new heroes are taking. More combos, more mix-ups, more ways to handle fighting against different heroes. One thing is very apparent though and that is that most of the OG (original) heroes need to have more added to their kit to bring them up to the standards set by the DLC. Each hero needs to have either an unblockable or some kind of bash/kick/etc. Let's be honest, heroes without an unblockable/ bash are at a disadvantage. I main Orochi and even though we have light attack/ Zone attack "50-50" it is stale and extremely 1 dimensional. Also, add more combos to each hero. The idea of an "easy" class isn't really necessary. You are going to have people that are beginners and only use 1 or 2 combos regardless of whether or not there are more combos available. This shouldn't handicap the heroes potential.

It would also be cool to see something unique for some (or all) of the heroes. Really cool how Cent has pin and even a feat that pins and synergizes with the rest of his kit. I have no idea what this could be for other heroes but I'm just throwing the idea out there.

Overall, don't nerf the crap out of the new DLC heroes. They really aren't that bad and have their weaknesses just like all of the other classes. The other classes just need to be buffed to the level of the DLC characters.

Thanks Ubisoft for a great DLC and i can't wait for the next one!!

That's going to be one hell of a nerf

Alchemist..
05-23-2017, 11:44 AM
Whats the Cents weakness? He gets one parry and you get locked into unblockable spam until dead.

He is low on healh dodge his kick/jab and 1 bar is gone. Parry his slow *** attacks, really i cant understand why peoples watching ay me while i charging unblockable heavy? U can throw a lifgt or parry ez, its 1200ms move peoples just dont know what to do when they see his unblockable, they panic and let him to land same combo over and over. Hes stamina regen is very slow, and 1 oss punish for him is like half of his health... he dont have nothing guaranteed from neutral, all his mix ups need a chain, kick is slow and guarantee 1 light whitch i can chain into quick throw or another light. Problems starts when peoples let him land unblockable heavy, then pressure is big and everybody panic instead of focus on defence.

Rryukenshin
05-23-2017, 05:48 PM
Whats the Cents weakness? He gets one parry and you get locked into unblockable spam until dead.

I usually play orochi and i find that I can pressure him with my "50-50" top double or ZA (with a few feints) and then dodge his leg kicks and punish with a light or GB. Also, once you get the timing down on his unblockable heavy its pretty easy to parry since its so predictable.

Rryukenshin
05-23-2017, 05:50 PM
Centurion is still sort of squishy. He isn't as bad as the Shinobi with his health pool but I can kill him with like three heavies and a light. Of course, I play an LB, but I don't hit any harder than most people. I don't really have any issues with the centurion.

Yeah Centurion's pretty squish and shinobi's are made of paper. A heavy takes almost half the shinobi's health away from most heroes.

Rryukenshin
05-23-2017, 05:51 PM
Thanks for the kind words and your feedback, Rryukenshin! And welcome to the forums!

Thanks Jurassic! You guys keep up the great work I can't wait to see what future heroes are coming down the line.

dekot11
05-23-2017, 05:53 PM
I usually play orochi and i find that I can pressure him with my "50-50" top double or ZA (with a few feints) and then dodge his leg kicks and punish with a light or GB. Also, once you get the timing down on his unblockable heavy its pretty easy to parry since its so predictable.

wait until you start fighting centurions who know how to mix up their attacks. you won't find it so easy to parry his charged heavies.

Rryukenshin
05-23-2017, 05:57 PM
How dare you come in here with a well reasoned post ;) Some good thoughts here, I tend to agree that I prefer buffs rather than nerfs, it would be interesting to see some of the older heroes given more options.

haha yeah seams like reasoning is missing from alot of these threads lately. I think that if Unblockable/ bashes are going to be given to some heroes.. then either all heroes need them in some way, shape, form or that something unique be developed that will give the other heroes similar capabilities to put pressure on opponents.

IMO when I play the shinobi, I can't help but feel that the orochi should've handled more like the shinobi then how it currently feels. Also, having the flexibility that both cent and shinobi have in regards to combos, pressure, and matchup strategy against heroes will definitely help bring all the other heroes up to speed.

dekot11
05-23-2017, 06:02 PM
Some things do need fixing like yes the kick should be at the very least punishable on a miss, but where it isn't gamebreaking, it is also better to buff characters towards the level of others rather than nerf from the top.

Do you understand what you are saying? You want all the characters to have spammable unblockables and 500ms lights? And more guaranteed free damage? Is that what you really want?

Rryukenshin
05-23-2017, 06:02 PM
You want to see all the characters jump around at whim and have spammable unblockables and do massive stamina damage and lights as fast as PK? We might as well go play a more traditional side scrolling fighter at that point. This game was cool because it was slow and methodical sword fighting. People hated pk because she just needed to mash buttons without caring about mindgames.

Power creep is never good for games and I haven't seen power creep this drastic this quick in any game I've played.

I do agree that they need to look at stamina cost to perform the kicks so that they are slightly less spammable. Speed of battle on the other hand I have no problem with. It makes the combat intense and gets the adrenaline pumping and doesn't take away anything strategically (I could see this being different for people with slower reflexes no offense to anyone). Once you get used to fighting each hero, you get used to the speed of their attacks (at least IMO).

Shinobi and Cent kicks can be annoying but lets be honest... they are very predictable and can be punished heavily. Not to mention when the shinobi goes to double dash you can guard break him right before the kick and get (I believe to be but not 100 % sure) a free GB which then gives you a heavy... and a heavy against a shinobi is like half their health pool in 1 strike.

I have also side stepped the cent kick as a raider and Shogu it's just all in the timing. Too early and the kick will still track to you.

dekot11
05-23-2017, 06:04 PM
I do agree that they need to look at stamina cost to perform the kicks so that they are slightly less spammable. Speed of battle on the other hand I have no problem with. It makes the combat intense and gets the adrenaline pumping and doesn't take away anything strategically (I could see this being different for people with slower reflexes no offense to anyone). Once you get used to fighting each hero, you get used to the speed of their attacks (at least IMO).

Shinobi and Cent kicks can be annoying but lets be honest... they are very predictable and can be punished heavily. Not to mention when the shinobi goes to double dash you can guard break him right before the kick and get (I believe to be but not 100 % sure) a free GB which then gives you a heavy... and a heavy against a shinobi is like half their health pool in 1 strike.

I have also side stepped the cent kick as a raider and Shogu it's just all in the timing. Too early and the kick will still track to you.

You play on PC or console? I'm on console and if 500ms lights are the new standard I'm going to quit and I suspect a lot of people will quit too. My reflexes are above average, according to online tests.

Rryukenshin
05-23-2017, 06:10 PM
Do you understand what you are saying? You want all the characters to have spammable unblockables and 500ms lights? And more guaranteed free damage? Is that what you really want?

I don't get any of that from reading candle's post. The spamming of bashes needs to be tuned (make the stamina cost more significant) but the bashes themselves give more flexibility in apply offensive pressure and are a good thing. Whether it's a bash, unblockable, or something new we haven't seen yet.. (IMO) each hero needs something that gives them this flexibility. Everything in this game is punishable once you learn the openings.

going to put this in asterisks to make sure that you understand *this thread doesn't have as much to do with the spamming of these moves* It's about adding more to the OG heroes to bring them up to par with the new DLC heroes.

Vordred
05-23-2017, 06:23 PM
the last thing we need is the old heroes being like the Cent. really don't want ton of unblockable crap.

the the old heros need up dating. but not with BS unblockable chains. to be honest all characters need to be more like Raider, no fee ****. no free GB or Heavy on a Parry. so attacking someone isn't so risking. good defence should be rewarded with not taking damage, no doing damage.

like raider, have more fients, like his heavy into top light. or Kensei's unblockable into heavy. thats the kind of thing we need, not more unblockables that combo into more unblockables/knockdowns/grabs.

Rryukenshin
05-23-2017, 06:44 PM
You play on PC or console? I'm on console and if 500ms lights are the new standard I'm going to quit and I suspect a lot of people will quit too. My reflexes are above average, according to online tests.

I am on PC. Never played FH on Console so I can't comment on that.

Rryukenshin
05-23-2017, 06:51 PM
the last thing we need is the old heroes being like the Cent. really don't want ton of unblockable crap.

the the old heros need up dating. but not with BS unblockable chains. to be honest all characters need to be more like Raider, no fee ****. no free GB or Heavy on a Parry. so attacking someone isn't so risking. good defence should be rewarded with not taking damage, no doing damage.

like raider, have more fients, like his heavy into top light. or Kensei's unblockable into heavy. thats the kind of thing we need, not more unblockables that combo into more unblockables/knockdowns/grabs.

Doesn't need to be exactly like cent but one of the mechanics that helps raider's mixup game is the fact that he has an unblockable attack that does indeed chain with both his stunning tap and heavy cancel which can lead to a parry or free light attack if the enemy tries to parry the unblockable. The fact that his unblockable allows him to put offensive pressure and gives him more versatility. This is exactly what I mean when saying other classes need to have an UB, bash, or something developed unique for the hero that will give them this flexibility.

I don't in any way mean for them to make all the other heroes play like Cent or Shinobi. I just believe that they introduced a more flexible play-style with this new DLC which can help all the other OG heroes in regards to applying offensive pressure.

dekot11
05-23-2017, 07:23 PM
I don't get any of that from reading candle's post. The spamming of bashes needs to be tuned (make the stamina cost more significant) but the bashes themselves give more flexibility in apply offensive pressure and are a good thing. Whether it's a bash, unblockable, or something new we haven't seen yet.. (IMO) each hero needs something that gives them this flexibility. Everything in this game is punishable once you learn the openings.

going to put this in asterisks to make sure that you understand *this thread doesn't have as much to do with the spamming of these moves* It's about adding more to the OG heroes to bring them up to par with the new DLC heroes.

He wants the old characters to be just as good as the new ones. That means more unspammable unblockables. That means 500ms lights. How is that so hard to understand?

Vordred
05-23-2017, 07:25 PM
Doesn't need to be exactly like cent but one of the mechanics that helps raider's mixup game is the fact that he has an unblockable attack that does indeed chain with both his stunning tap and heavy cancel which can lead to a parry or free light attack if the enemy tries to parry the unblockable. The fact that his unblockable allows him to put offensive pressure and gives him more versatility. This is exactly what I mean when saying other classes need to have an UB, bash, or something developed unique for the hero that will give them this flexibility.

I don't in any way mean for them to make all the other heroes play like Cent or Shinobi. I just believe that they introduced a more flexible play-style with this new DLC which can help all the other OG heroes in regards to applying offensive pressure.

ah fair enough, i get you.

but the main reason the old cast can't apply and pressure is because of Parry giving free hits. or assassin dodge attacks, it to punishing to attack first.

thats always been the problem, it's not the characters, but the way the core systems work. thats what should have been fixing, not just adding more mix ups and unblockable.

Rryukenshin
05-23-2017, 09:01 PM
ah fair enough, i get you.

but the main reason the old cast can't apply and pressure is because of Parry giving free hits. or assassin dodge attacks, it to punishing to attack first.

thats always been the problem, it's not the characters, but the way the core systems work. thats what should have been fixing, not just adding more mix ups and unblockable.

I agree that the parries give too much reward but even if parries didn't give guaranteed damage, some heroes just don't have enough variety to open up the more defensive heroes.. or anyone that has excellent reflexes for that matter. IE: Orochi: besides top attack + ZA and feints there really isn't much he can do to really make you do anything other than sit there and try and block every attack. Where with someone like warlord, the headbutt makes you have to do something other than just sit there and block attacks and gives more opportunity to punish.

Even if they fixed the core gameplay, if you don't have a few combos/ chains or unblockables/ bashes your enemy can just sit there and block your attacks.

*fyi* I know I keep bringing up orochi but I honestly don't play enough of the other classes to speak on them "in-depth" lol.

The_B0G_
05-24-2017, 12:19 AM
He is low on healh dodge his kick/jab and 1 bar is gone. Parry his slow *** attacks, really i cant understand why peoples watching ay me while i charging unblockable heavy? U can throw a lifgt or parry ez, its 1200ms move peoples just dont know what to do when they see his unblockable, they panic and let him to land same combo over and over. Hes stamina regen is very slow, and 1 oss punish for him is like half of his health... he dont have nothing guaranteed from neutral, all his mix ups need a chain, kick is slow and guarantee 1 light whitch i can chain into quick throw or another light. Problems starts when peoples let him land unblockable heavy, then pressure is big and everybody panic instead of focus on defence.


I usually play orochi and i find that I can pressure him with my "50-50" top double or ZA (with a few feints) and then dodge his leg kicks and punish with a light or GB. Also, once you get the timing down on his unblockable heavy its pretty easy to parry since its so predictable.

I understand all of this, I feint, I GB, I do all the tricks, what I'm saying is that if he parries you once, you're dead.

Good players don't use risky moves, so it's not as easy as just parrying his charge up. Usually when I beat a Cent, he comes back and uses the turtle defence. He won't attack at all. Who wants to have to land 20 lights to kill someone, eventually I gotta risk a heavy, I just don't think 1 parry from him should render me dead from 100% health because of his vortex.