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View Full Version : PF needs the Helldiver as a flyable



MoritzJGOne
08-26-2004, 04:15 PM
Even if it has to be added as a patch!

There were more Helldivers than Dauntlesses, especially as 1943 moved to 1944.

There are a few SB2C's left. The US Naval Air Museum has a SB2C-5. There is a SB2C being rebuilt in Minnesota and there is the Commemorative Air Force SB2C-4 in Midland, TX.

What can be done?

1. The PF team needs to let us know what they need!

See if we have an IL-2 player in the area of Midland, TX. (I think that the 'Top Hatters' may have 2) and get photos of the cockpits and details. I am sure that with an introduction, the CAF guys would be happy to show off their bird!

This documents a SB2C-4.

2. For SB2C-5 and SB2C-3 variants, there are texts and manuals that could decribe art and instrument placement diffences.

On all versions, the base of the leading edge of the fin drops for the machine guns. Fun animation!

The wing on all version was the same, used a NACA 2212 airfoil (Airfoil Database), from the root to the wing tip. Much of the other data is readily available!

MoritzJGOne
08-26-2004, 04:15 PM
Even if it has to be added as a patch!

There were more Helldivers than Dauntlesses, especially as 1943 moved to 1944.

There are a few SB2C's left. The US Naval Air Museum has a SB2C-5. There is a SB2C being rebuilt in Minnesota and there is the Commemorative Air Force SB2C-4 in Midland, TX.

What can be done?

1. The PF team needs to let us know what they need!

See if we have an IL-2 player in the area of Midland, TX. (I think that the 'Top Hatters' may have 2) and get photos of the cockpits and details. I am sure that with an introduction, the CAF guys would be happy to show off their bird!

This documents a SB2C-4.

2. For SB2C-5 and SB2C-3 variants, there are texts and manuals that could decribe art and instrument placement diffences.

On all versions, the base of the leading edge of the fin drops for the machine guns. Fun animation!

The wing on all version was the same, used a NACA 2212 airfoil (Airfoil Database), from the root to the wing tip. Much of the other data is readily available!

Nimits
08-26-2004, 04:32 PM
A hearty second to this (and, in this case there is no lack of FM or cockpit data). Very important plane, a necessary for a late war divebomber career.

But we still need a TBD Devestator Flyable (not a hijack).

Sakai9745
08-26-2004, 04:37 PM
Kind of funny; USN-wise, we have a early model dive bomber, and a late model torpedo plane, and lack the exact opposite http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

Third for the first, and second for the second. I do hope both of these fine birds do make it as flyable.

Regards,

Al - SF, Calif

http://www.flightjournal.com/fj/images/artexpo/august2002_fellows.jpg

"Defense Dept regrets to inform you that your sons are dead cause they were stupid."

Baco-ECV56
08-26-2004, 04:43 PM
Fully agree.
We need the full lot, of the carrier based strike planes.

It is the onlly way to have the freedom to recreate almost every mayor battle of the Theater.
And be able to fly in whitchever plane our heart desires.

IV_JG51_Razor
08-26-2004, 05:10 PM
"bump"

I heartily agree on both counts! The TBD and the SB2C should be represented in PF as FLYABLE machines. (I am assuming, of course, that the TBF is already going to be flyable)

<fingers crossed> http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif

Razor
IV/JG51 11/12 Staffelkapitan
www.jg51.net (http://www.jg51.net)
Forgotten Skies Online War
http://www.forgottenskies.com/ForgottenWars/default.aspx
"Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgement"

JG53Frankyboy
08-26-2004, 05:33 PM
sure , it would be fantastic to have the full list of carrier strike planes as flyable.
D3A1, D3A2 ,B5N2
SBC , TBD
for erly operations

D4Y1 , B6N2 , B7A2
SB2C , TBF
for later operations

but be patient, if these are not in PF release !
give this game time to grow, remember the planelist of the original IL2 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VW-IceFire
08-26-2004, 10:02 PM
Another one for the Helldiver. Both the .50cal and 20mm versions please!

In 1944 and 1945 campaigns, the Helldiver as a flyable would be great since it essentially completely replaces the Dauntless in the USN during this period.

Although apparently not well liked initially...it did fairly well overall. Especially as the bugs were worked out operationally.

Having a pair of 20mm cannons and HVAR's is useful for ground attack as well. Not to mention a radial engine.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RAF No 92 Squadron
"Either fight or die"

DONB3397
08-26-2004, 10:11 PM
Helldiver? IIRC, the pilots said SB2C stood for "Son-of-a-B***h, 2nd Class."

Not a reliable bird until late in the war. If flyable, it should be modeled accurately, don't you think?

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v243/DONB3397/SpitSig01b.jpg
"And now I see with eye serene/The very pulse of the machine;
A being breathing thoughtful breath,/A Traveller between life and death." -- Wordsworth

ElAurens
08-27-2004, 05:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DONB3397:
If flyable, it should be modeled accurately, don't you think?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why would it be otherwise?

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

The late war machines with higher power engines and 4 blade props were very good. And remember, the Curtiss SB2C Helldiver sunk more tonnage of Japanese shipping than the SBD.

Be sure.

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

BlitzPig_EL

Aaron_GT
08-27-2004, 07:35 AM
"We need the full lot, of the carrier based strike planes."

Indeed - the Firefly for one.

Flydutch
08-27-2004, 07:47 AM
Who wants a 'Son of A ***** Second class!?'

I stil prefer the First Son of a *****!

But seconds are welcome if we get the 1st Birdcage Corsair!

MoritzJGOne
08-27-2004, 08:44 AM
Another excellent source of Helldiver data is the 'Detail in Scale' series for modelers by Bert Kinzey. Can be bought through better hobby shops and Squadron or Amazon.

Shows views of all variants. The -3 & -4 have their engine and radio controls on the cockpit sides individually. On the -5 these were mounted on side consuls.

Diablo310th
08-27-2004, 10:08 AM
I totally agree. We definately need theh Helldiver. Wouldn't it be nice to have the 20mm version?

http://img54.photobucket.com/albums/v166/310thDiablo/DiabloSig.gif

USN_VF1Hartmann
08-27-2004, 11:00 AM
II/JG1-VF1 is having a get together in Midland in October. Should be about 10 guys there and they would be more than HAPPY to get pics of any of the planes needed.

Ensign. Eric Hartmann
Flight Member VF-1
www.vf1.jg1.org (http://www.vf1.jg1.org)

Baco-ECV56
08-27-2004, 02:30 PM
*Bump*

necrobaron
08-27-2004, 03:00 PM
Yep, we need the Helldiver.

"Not all who wander are lost."

IV_JG51_Razor
08-27-2004, 03:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by USN_VF1Hartmann:
II/JG1-VF1 is having a get together in Midland in October. Should be about 10 guys there and they would be more than HAPPY to get pics of any of the planes needed.

Ensign. Eric Hartmann
Flight Member VF-1
http://www.vf1.jg1.org<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hartman, are you talking about Midland Michigan, or Midland, Texas?!! Our squad will be holding our annual Father-Lan in Dallas (Granbury actually) this year down in Dallas from Nov 5th to the 8th.

Razor
IV/JG51 11/12 Staffelkapitan
www.jg51.net (http://www.jg51.net)
Forgotten Skies Online War
http://www.forgottenskies.com/ForgottenWars/default.aspx
"Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgement"

VW-IceFire
08-27-2004, 05:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DONB3397:
Helldiver? IIRC, the pilots said SB2C stood for "Son-of-a-B***h, 2nd Class."

Not a reliable bird until late in the war. If flyable, it should be modeled accurately, don't you think?

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v243/DONB3397/SpitSig01b.jpg
"And now I see with eye serene/The very pulse of the machine;
A being breathing thoughtful breath,/A Traveller between life and death." -- Wordsworth<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Some of the reputation was well deserved...some of it not. According to what I've read anyways.

Pilots who trainsitioned from the Dauntless found it less pleasant to fly. It had maitenence problems as well (apparently). I guess we can model the poor handling...not sure if it was ever improved or not. I don't know enough to make any assertions except that I've read that it was gradually warmed upto and that it wasn't bad overall.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RAF No 92 Squadron
"Either fight or die"

DONB3397
08-27-2004, 06:18 PM
VW-Icefire, while the original Helldivers were underpowered for the role they were assigned and notoriously difficult to maintain, I believe the SB2C-3, produced in '44, overcame many of the problems. It added 200 horsepower and included a larger, 4-bladed prop and added to forward firing armament. The SB2C-4 added racks for rockets and hardpoints for 500 lb bombs.

It did some damage, and I'd like to see it in PF. But, according to another thread, it won't be in the initial offering.

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v243/DONB3397/SpitSig01b.jpg
"And now I see with eye serene/The very pulse of the machine;
A being breathing thoughtful breath,/A Traveller between life and death." -- Wordsworth

RCJ99
08-27-2004, 07:45 PM
If the designers need to cut down the list of flyable planes the helldiver should be one of the first.

The plane had lots of design problems and did not replace the dauntless until the late summer of 1944.

Not long afterwards the US carriers went very fighter bomber heavy. Over 75% hellcats, Some carriers carried only 9 avengers and 9 helldivers.

Late war carrier careers will be mostly fighter