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View Full Version : Cent is B tier and shinobi is alright.



IesooMI
05-20-2017, 09:13 PM
Cent is B tier at best, shinobi is alright in certain situations, mostly just flashy smoke for overwhelming noobs. If the hate continues and the nerfs start rolling then for honor will have 2 more low tier fighters.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-20-2017, 09:15 PM
People are gonna call you crazy and make fun of you, but you aren't the only person who believes that

Bouse Feenix who is a prominent FH YouTuber also believes the Centurian is B tier.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSLrh8ryz2Q

Sir_rage_quit
05-20-2017, 09:17 PM
Cent is B tier at best, shinobi is alright in certain situations, mostly just flashy smoke for overwhelming noobs. If the hate continues and the nerfs start rolling then for honor will have 2 more low tier fighters.

your talking about 1v1 2v2 or 4v4 ? because their cc is crazy op in dominion

CoyoteXStarrk
05-20-2017, 09:18 PM
your talking about 1v1 2v2 or 4v4 ? because their cc is crazy op in dominion

The fact that a single aspect of the kit is good in certain situations, doesn't change the fact that their kit overall is thoroughly average.


For Example


The Conqueror is still a beast when it comes to CCing enemies to help teammates. That doesn't change the fact that overall the Conqueror is still the worst character in the game right now.

Sir_rage_quit
05-20-2017, 09:20 PM
The fact that a single aspect of the kit is good in certain situations, doesn't change the fact that their kit overall is thoroughly average.

well i found them to strong in 4v4 ( i played centurion ) So far alot of people agree with it they are strong in 4v4 but alright in 1v1 2v2 .... so we just need to find a solution for 4v4. Solo classe pick should help a little....damn that was alot of 4v4 -_-


damn you edited.... Well i agree put a conq and a shinobi or cent and the cc is hard.... but conq dont have such a domage output

IesooMI
05-20-2017, 09:26 PM
I base my opinions on 1v1s or 2v2. I don't understand all the salt over 4s do people not remember what a good shugo or LB can do CC wise or a conq or warden lol. The difference is it just looks different because it's new.

This is just my opinion and everyone is welcome to their own but I'm waning all the non season pass holders right now keep crying and your going to be in for a huge disappointment when you get your hands on 2 sub par fighters. Cent was good the first day or 2, then people have caught on quick and I don't even use him
Anymore past rep 3 in duels/brawls (my preferred modes). Just hit rep1 on shinobi and he's cool and all but once you get over the fear of the kick you literally just load up a heavy and take the trade and he's done, if he's trying to 50/50 into GB then he just eats a heavy. If they remove the armor from his kick then GG lmao. Same with ranged attacks, all show and flash, use them against anyone above average and you seal your own death sentence.

TLDR: unlike the majority of the community's current opinion, I think the new toons could use some dev love.

Sir_rage_quit
05-20-2017, 09:28 PM
I base my opinions on 1v1s or 2v2. I don't understand all the salt over 4s do people not remember what a good shugo or LB can do CC wise or a conq or warden lol. The difference is it just looks different because it's new.

This is just my opinion and everyone is welcome to their own but I'm waning all the non season pass holders right now keep crying and your going to be in for a huge disappointment when you get your hands on 2 sub par fighters. Cent was good the first day or 2, then people have caught on quick and I don't even use him
Anymore past rep 3 in duels/brawls (my preferred modes). Just hit rep1 on shinobi and he's cool and all but once you get over the fear of the kick you literally just load up a heavy and take the trade and he's done, if he's trying to 50/50 into GB then he just eats a heavy. If they remove the armor from his kick then GG lmao. Same with ranged attacks, all show and flash, use them against anyone above average and you seal your own death sentence.

TLDR: unlike the majority of the community's current opinion, I think the new toons could use some dev love.

Yea we do... those ability were already hated but alot of the community and they add 2 more to it... that why some people are mad about it and cant try to even find a good middle ground

IesooMI
05-20-2017, 09:33 PM
It's gonna be one of the other man, the community either embraces the turtle meta and all the unblockables and CC go away or they get what they have been crying for which is what the devs tryied to add. Idk why people don't understand you can't have offensive gameplay without offensive moves. 50/50s unblockables and reads vs turtles and walls. The community needs to decide and quit trying to lynch mob the devs. (I'll take 50/50s all day over turtles, makes fights faster and funner)

Sir_rage_quit
05-20-2017, 09:35 PM
It's gonna be one of the other man, the community either embraces the turtle meta and all the unblockables and CC go away or they get what they have been crying for which is what the devs tryied to add. Idk why people don't understand you can't have offensive gameplay without offensive moves. 50/50s unblockables and reads vs turtles and walls. The community needs to decide and quit trying to lynch mob the devs. (I'll take 50/50s all day over turtles, makes fights faster and funner)

then the new meta is not better for 4v4 the dev should choose it either 1v1 2v2 or 4v4 because i agree with you it gonna be hard to balance for 4v4 and kill the turtle meta for 1v1 ( but i personnaly hate 50/50 it aint fun for me )btw 4v4 were getting fine before this dlc turtle meta was more a pain in the *** for 2v2 and 1v1

IesooMI
05-20-2017, 09:40 PM
Totally understandable to each their own, I honestly don't see the hype to 4v4 anyway. It destroys the games beautiful combat system. People don't learn how to play at all and it shows when they come over to duels/brawls. Ran into a rep 26 conq the other day while doing my dominion order and he couldn't even CGB. It's sad really 4s hurts players and the game more than it helps IMO.

Sir_rage_quit
05-20-2017, 09:43 PM
Totally understandable to each their own, I honestly don't see the hype to 4v4 anyway. It destroys the games beautiful combat system. People don't learn how to play at all and it shows when they come over to duels/brawls. Ran into a rep 26 conq the other day while doing my dominion order and he couldn't even CGB. It's sad really 4s hurts players and the game more than it helps IMO.

like you said each one is own xD But i will be sad if they cant fine a way to make the game good for both type of player

PanzerShrekonin
05-20-2017, 10:12 PM
ShiNOOBi is 'alright'....


Ok. >.>

Lyskir
05-20-2017, 10:14 PM
ShiNOOBi is 'alright'....


Ok. >.>

i watched syphers stream today and he reks shinobis with raider but he also play shinobi and he knows their tools

CoyoteXStarrk
05-20-2017, 10:15 PM
ShiNOOBi is 'alright'....


Ok. >.>

I have seen PLENTY of streams and first hand fights where the Shinobi gets rekt.


He is not godlike despite what so many people believe.

Sir_rage_quit
05-20-2017, 10:16 PM
I have seen PLENTY of streams and first hand fights where the Shinobi gets rekt.


He is not godlike despite what so many people believe.

keep also in mind the other shinobi was it good or average ? because shinobi will really shine and become cancer in the right hand ( not asking for nerf just saying a fact )

CoyoteXStarrk
05-20-2017, 10:18 PM
keep also in mind the other shinobi was it good or average ? because shinobi will really shine and become cancer in the right hand ( not asking for nerf just saying a fact )

The same can be said for pretty much any class.

PanzerShrekonin
05-20-2017, 10:19 PM
I have seen PLENTY of streams and first hand fights where the Shinobi gets rekt.


He is not godlike despite what so many people believe.


i watched syphers stream today and he reks shinobis with raider but he also play shinobi and he knows their tools


I honestly have no idea what to do most of the time versus a ShiNOOBi. Sure, dodge their kick and hope they attack so you can parry. But then they just back flip and hit you from range. parrying their light attacks are almost impossible, A.K.A PK 2.0.


I mean their ranged is easy to counter((The GB. Parrying their attack itself is a pain)).

I honestly want to know the secret here. Its PK 2.0 from what ive seen. It's the same problems amplified.

Super fast lights and heavies, even more mobility

CoyoteXStarrk
05-20-2017, 10:23 PM
I honestly have no idea what to do most of the time versus a ShiNOOBi. Sure, dodge their kick and hope they attack so you can parry. But then they just back flip and hit you from range. parrying their light attacks are almost impossible, A.K.A PK 2.0.


I mean their ranged is easy to counter((The GB. Parrying their attack itself is a pain)).

I honestly want to know the secret here. Its PK 2.0 from what ive seen .

The key is not to get taken in by the fancy footwork or the flashy effects. His moves light up your block screen just like anyone elses.



He is 75% show. Once you lay on the pressure he buckles.

Especially with his health being so small. It only takes a few hits or combos and he is dead.

PanzerShrekonin
05-20-2017, 10:24 PM
The key is not to get taken in by the fancy footwork or the flashy effects. His moves light up your block screen just like anyone elses.



He is 75% show. Once you lay on the pressure he buckles.

Especially with his health being so small. It only takes a few hits or combos and he is dead.

What pressure? You mean by playing orochi or a PK? Sure.

Good luck with anyone slow. You cant pressure something that fast.

Sir_rage_quit
05-20-2017, 10:24 PM
The same can be said for pretty much any class.

true but the skill needed for this one is more apparent i would say , more people will be able to play pk at high end compare to shinobi ( what im trying to say is we cant really judge yet ... he may be godlike or not time will tell )

PanzerShrekonin
05-20-2017, 10:26 PM
true but the skill needed for this one is more apparent i would say , more people will be able to play pk at high end that shinobi ( what im trying to say is we cant really judge yet ... he may be godlike or not time will tell )

More skill? Please. They all do the same ****.

Dodge into kick, dodge dodge dodge.

Backflip kick into throw.

Like it's the exact same thing everytime. There is no skill involved. I even seen one do the PK ********. The constant movement of their guard switch. I knew right then, its Pk 2.0

SirCorrino
05-20-2017, 10:27 PM
I don't care which tier he is (especially in 1v1 since that mode is irrelevant), I care how absolutely miserable it is to play against him in 4v4 modes. Both the new heroes take control away from you character way too much compared to the older characters and it makes it just plain unfun to play against. They can buff other aspects of him, but they really need to address his stamina drain and CC in 4v4 modes. He should not be better at controlling opponents than the dedicated Disablers.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-20-2017, 10:28 PM
What pressure? You mean by playing orochi or a PK? Sure.

Good luck with anyone slow. You cant pressure something that fast.

The fact I don't have any issues on my Shugoki or my Warden and have seen other "Slow" heroes win against them leaves me to doubt your assumption.



Stop making excuses and get better.

Sir_rage_quit
05-20-2017, 10:29 PM
I don't care which tier he is (especially in 1v1 since that mode is irrelevant), I care how absolutely miserable it is to play against him in 4v4 modes. Both the new heroes take control away from you character way too much compared to the older characters and it makes it just plain unfun to play against. They can buff other aspects of him, but they really need to address his stamina drain and CC in 4v4 modes. He should not be better at controlling opponents than the dedicated Disablers.

i agree but how can the dev fix this without totally breaking them for 1v1 ? (ps; im more for a 4v4 balance but still )

PanzerShrekonin
05-20-2017, 10:30 PM
The fact I don't have any issues on my Shugoki or my Warden and have seen other "Slow" heroes win against them leaves me to doubt your assumption.



Stop making excuses and get better.

Or you just haven't faced good Shinoobis like I have. Theres that possibility.

Butonfly
05-20-2017, 10:33 PM
Totally understandable to each their own, I honestly don't see the hype to 4v4 anyway. It destroys the games beautiful combat system. People don't learn how to play at all and it shows when they come over to duels/brawls. Ran into a rep 26 conq the other day while doing my dominion order and he couldn't even CGB. It's sad really 4s hurts players and the game more than it helps IMO.

What's even more hilarious is Duelers in Brawl falling to pieces the moment a team player enters and 2v1's or joins everyone togeather in a 2v2. The duelers can't handle the heat/team element XD For all their "solo" Rep, so sad.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-20-2017, 10:34 PM
Or you just haven't faced good Shinoobis like I have. Theres that possibility.

If you wanna make excuses thats fine.


Meanwhile the rest of us will recognize the mistakes we are making and get better for them.

IesooMI
05-20-2017, 10:44 PM
What's even more hilarious is Duelers in Brawl falling to pieces the moment a team player enters and 2v1's or joins everyone togeather in a 2v2. The duelers can't handle the heat/team element XD For all their "solo" Rep, so sad.

Too be fair the same can be said about a 2v1, just spam. I don't have a problem with brawls being actual 2v2, what I don't care for is everything being the normal 2 1v1s then once the losing team realizes they can't beat the other 2 they switch to 2v1. Too me that's an immediate mental lose because sure they might win but only after they accepted the fact that they couldn't beat the other people. I've ran into this situation so many times doing brawls with random people and having a much less skilled teammate forcing me to win my duel then win the other and as soon as we hit match point they decided to 2v1. Like I said before to each his own but don't act like your good when you couldn't handle me on your own. But that's a different rant all together lol back to the topic of this thread :)

IesooMI
05-20-2017, 10:46 PM
Or you just haven't faced good Shinoobis like I have. Theres that possibility.

I'll take god tier shinoobis all day over above average warlords.

PanzerShrekonin
05-20-2017, 10:47 PM
If you wanna make excuses thats fine.


Meanwhile the rest of us will recognize the mistakes we are making and get better for them.

Lmao. Or maybe you provide actually advice other then assume that you are better than others ;)

PanzerShrekonin
05-20-2017, 10:48 PM
I'll take god tier shinoobis all day over above average warlords.

Ill take warlords every day. They are complete garbage imo now.

A Warden will smash them to peices.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-20-2017, 10:51 PM
Lmao. Or maybe you provide actually advice other then assume that you are better than others ;)

I did.


You chose to ignore it.

PanzerShrekonin
05-20-2017, 11:01 PM
The key is not to get taken in by the fancy footwork or the flashy effects. His moves light up your block screen just like anyone elses.



He is 75% show. Once you lay on the pressure he buckles.

Especially with his health being so small. It only takes a few hits or combos and he is dead.


This was your only "Advice".... lmao.

This is like saying "Ignore the flashy shoulderbash from Warden. It means nothing."

-eyeroll-

CoyoteXStarrk
05-20-2017, 11:04 PM
This was your only "Advice".... lmao.

This is like saying "Ignore the flashy shoulderbash from Warden. It means nothing."

-eyeroll-

I told you to ignore his effects and focus on blocking and parrying. Thats how you beat them. Thats how I regularly beat them.


You are just a sore loser and you wanna whine and moan. You don't want advice. You want to complain and moan that the Shinobi is OP rather than admit that you just suck.


Other people are beating the Shinobi as well. Grow up and take some blame for your own gameplay mistakes rather than blame everything on everyone else.

PanzerShrekonin
05-20-2017, 11:10 PM
I told you to ignore his effects and focus on blocking and parrying. Thats how you beat them. Thats how I regularly beat them.


You are just a sore loser and you wanna whine and moan. You don't want advice. You want to complain and moan that the Shinobi is OP rather than admit that you just suck.


Other people are beating the Shinobi as well. Grow up and take some blame for your own gameplay mistakes rather than blame everything on everyone else.

Edit.

Nvm. Not worth personally attacking you. not gonna stoop to that level.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-20-2017, 11:11 PM
Lmao. The only mistake I make regularly is not dodging the kick. Thats it. Other then that, he spams light attacks and wins. its not hard. Again, PK 2.0. If you can't figure out why the Pk was hated and why Shinobi is pretty much a Pk on crack then you need to back up and look at it from an objective angle. you are probably one of those peopel who defended PK too lol

Ha thats funny.


I was one of the people who was most vocal about the PK light spam being ridiculous. Nice try though.

SirCorrino
05-21-2017, 12:49 AM
i agree but how can the dev fix this without totally breaking them for 1v1 ? (ps; im more for a 4v4 balance but still )

Fix the CC so it's not so oppressive in 4v4, and give some other buff to make up for it in 1v1 situations if necessary.

Dr-KaBoom
05-21-2017, 12:54 AM
I'm bored of 1v1 and I mainly dominion in this game. Centurion is god tier in 4v4. Devs need to communicate what their game mode is so some of us can decide if we want to invest any further into this game.

UbiNoty
05-21-2017, 01:02 AM
We're for sure very well aware that there's been a lot of calls of changes to the centurion CC from the community. Once we've had some time to get some reliable numbers back, we'll be evaluating centurion's strength in 4v4 and we'll see what we want to do about it then. Will pass along the feedback though.

kweassa1917
05-21-2017, 01:10 AM
your talking about 1v1 2v2 or 4v4 ? because their cc is crazy op in dominion

Actually, being outnumbered and surrounded is "crazy op" in 4v4, not the Cent, nor the Shib.

We've already had plenty of demonic bearhugs, pancake flippers, incessant shovers, braindamaged headbutts, shoulderbumping, tripping with a stick and what not before v1.07. Now, we just have two more varieties -- manhandling and bondage play -- of the same phenomenon we've always encountered and learned to adapt to.

It's not about a single class and its CC. It's being outnumbered. As usual. Don't confuse those.

BeefMan_
05-21-2017, 01:12 AM
The fact that cent can 50% of off a parry and 100-0 you off a parry-wallbang makes him god tier
Shinobi is literally a Warlord/PK bastard child

SirCorrino
05-21-2017, 01:13 AM
Actually, being outnumbered and surrounded is "crazy op" in 4v4, not the Cent, nor the Shib.

We've already had plenty of demonic bearhugs, pancake flippers, incessant shovers, braindamaged headbutts, shoulderbumping, tripping with a stick and what not before v1.07. Now, we just have two more varieties -- manhandling and bondage play -- of the same phenomenon we've always encountered and learned to adapt to.

If I'm outnumber by any two characters that don't include Cent or Shinobi I can fight back in some way. If either (or Odin forbid both) are Cent/Shinobi I have to be 100% on the defensive, if I take one hit or kick I will not be allowed to take any other action until I die. I will be constantly kicked or punched by attacks that ignore revenge activation and still interrupt the uninterruptable revenge attacks. And then I die. This does not happen against any other combination of characters. Sure, I get CC'd a lot if I fight an LB, Conq or Valk, but I still get to do stuff since their CC does not let themselves attack for 40+ damage as well.

PanzerShrekonin
05-21-2017, 01:33 AM
Actually, being outnumbered and surrounded is "crazy op" in 4v4, not the Cent, nor the Shib.

We've already had plenty of demonic bearhugs, pancake flippers, incessant shovers, braindamaged headbutts, shoulderbumping, tripping with a stick and what not before v1.07. Now, we just have two more varieties -- manhandling and bondage play -- of the same phenomenon we've always encountered and learned to adapt to.

It's not about a single class and its CC. It's being outnumbered. As usual. Don't confuse those.


Lol bondage play.


You naming all of these CC styles reminds me of World of Warcraft 3 v 3 arena comps. xD

I snorted.

SnugglesIV
05-21-2017, 04:53 AM
We're for sure very well aware that there's been a lot of calls of changes to the centurion CC from the community. Once we've had some time to get some reliable numbers back, we'll be evaluating centurion's strength in 4v4 and we'll see what we want to do about it then. Will pass along the feedback though.

I'd be careful about nerfing Cent's CC because of his strength in 4v4. In a 1v1 situation, Cent is pretty easy to react to and punish. It's pretty easy to block a fully charged heavy, and if he's ending with an unblockable heavy you can actually dodge the attack and punish with GB because of the chain recovery time is so high. Unless Ubi is willing to make different "builds" for 1v1/2v2 and 4v4, the only thing that would work is implementing a hero limit so Cent/Shinobi stacking is no longer a problem (which is the only time I have problems with Cent CC in 4v4).


The fact that cent can 50% of off a parry and 100-0 you off a parry-wallbang makes him god tier
Shinobi is literally a Warlord/PK bastard child

Can you please provide a source for how Centurion can 50% off a parry punish without a wall? The usual parry punish is Parry Counter -> Free Heavy. Anything outside of that combo is not guaranteed as the punch after heavy is reactable and you can parry any heavy he followups with after the free heavy. Also, are we really going to make the argument that wall splat comboes are enough to make someone OP? His throw distance is terrible and you cannot use the kick after throw to wall splat. His parry counter does wall splat, but why are you fighting with a wall to your back?

kweassa1917
05-21-2017, 05:07 AM
Can you please provide a source for how Centurion can 50% off a parry punish without a wall? The usual parry punish is Parry Counter -> Free Heavy. Anything outside of that combo is not guaranteed as the punch after heavy is reactable and you can parry any heavy he followups with after the free heavy. Also, are we really going to make the argument that wall splat comboes are enough to make someone OP? His throw distance is terrible and you cannot use the kick after throw to wall splat. His parry counter does wall splat, but why are you fighting with a wall to your back?

The uppercut-knockdown-pouncing stab does chuck off at the least 30% ~ 35% of HP, tho', even with a purplegear Shug (which has more HP than most others), and when being hit by a graygear Cent. I don't think you can deny it's a really HUGE amount of profit for such a simple combo.

SnugglesIV
05-21-2017, 05:20 AM
The uppercut-knockdown-pouncing stab does chuck off at the least 30% ~ 35% of HP, tho', even with a purplegear Shug (which has more HP than most others), and when being hit by a graygear Cent. I don't think you can deny it's a really HUGE amount of profit for such a simple combo.

You cannot get a fully charged heavy off a parry for free. I don't think you can do this on a light parry either. I've tested this and it has never worked. The optimal punish from a heavy parry is Parry Counter into free heavy. On a light you can go for heavy-heavy (the second heavy is reactable and interruptable if you decide to fully charge it). IF the Parry Counter manages to wall splat someone then you go for fully charged heavy into either a fully charged jab, or the infamous jab-heavy spam combo (depending on whether or not you think the person you are fighting can reliably dodge jabs).

If I'm wrong, provide evidence that this is possible. I haven't seen it done at all.

IesooMI
05-21-2017, 03:19 PM
You cannot get a fully charged heavy off a parry for free. I don't think you can do this on a light parry either. I've tested this and it has never worked. The optimal punish from a heavy parry is Parry Counter into free heavy. On a light you can go for heavy-heavy (the second heavy is reactable and interruptable if you decide to fully charge it). IF the Parry Counter manages to wall splat someone then you go for fully charged heavy into either a fully charged jab, or the infamous jab-heavy spam combo (depending on whether or not you think the person you are fighting can reliably dodge jabs).

If I'm wrong, provide evidence that this is possible. I haven't seen it done at all.

Parry GB into wall throw. But a lot of characters in the game can do but damage off of walls or if they get you in a corner. It's the persons own fault honestly tho for not being aware of their surroundings