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Mudflaaaps
05-19-2017, 09:41 PM
Well, its been 3 days and centurion has already been nerfed, despite being no better than warlord, lawbringer or shugoki (all characters with spammable unblockables AND a high health pool).

Yet, shinobi (who was already a VERY good character) has been BUFFED!

Ubi say they adjust characters based on data, but what data can you get in 3 days? No-one has bothered learning how to counter centurion, they just whine and cry about how they're losing to better players.

Shinobi needs nerfing. His ranged attack is now near impossible to counter on console (no idea about PC), plus it's blatantly unfair that centurions get hit with a nerf after 3 days and shinobi doesn't.

I want people to comment 'yes' below if you want shinobi nerfed.
Bear in mind he's peacekeeper 2.0 and you've been crying about how powerful she is since day one (no real nerfs though).

I want to see lower attack speed and lower damage, or just remove him from the game completely for fun.

No ninja nerds please. We know you're out there and your opinions matter not. This is for people who want him nerfed only.

Lyskir
05-19-2017, 09:45 PM
also angry shinobi mains incoming^^

i guess its really hard to counter him on console

Antonioj26
05-19-2017, 09:47 PM
I've been waiting for this thread, I'm shocked you've taken this long. FIGHT ME WITH YOUR CENT!!!

BGEEZY1982medic
05-19-2017, 09:48 PM
Its impossible they go invis n front kick chain pull guardvreak, n spam until dead

Mudflaaaps
05-19-2017, 09:57 PM
Haha I can do pal, I'm not particularly good with him yet. I don't understand how characters like warlord have been top of the board since day 1 with no nerf, cents on for 3 days and gets 4 different nerfs...unreal amounts of crying going on.

Lyskir
05-19-2017, 09:59 PM
Haha I can do pal, I'm not particularly good with him yet. I don't understand how characters like warlord have been top of the board since day 1 with no nerf, cents on for 3 days and gets 4 different nerfs...unreal amounts of crying going on.

i kinda agree with u here

Mudflaaaps
05-19-2017, 10:05 PM
It's just so obvious that they haven't got any 'data' all they have is tons of warlords crying in the forums because they weren't totally unbeatable anymore. It's utter nonsense.

IesooMI
05-19-2017, 10:10 PM
Keep crying I'm sure you and the rest of the scrubs can get them turned into junk and we can go back to the seeing the same stuff we have for the last 3 months and cry about turtles.

dekot11
05-19-2017, 10:13 PM
how did cent get nerfed

Mudflaaaps
05-19-2017, 10:16 PM
Notes are on the news section of the forums. Mostly they've slowed down his chains, it's not that noticeable if I'm honest but totally unnecessary regardless.

Chucky_Jones
05-19-2017, 10:18 PM
Cent didn't get nerfed his consol version was bugged and it got fixed so now the console and pc cent are the same.

dekot11
05-19-2017, 10:19 PM
Cent didn't get nerfed his consol version was bugged and it got fixed so now the console and pc cent are the same.

oh I knew that, thought he actually got nerfed

CandleInTheDark
05-19-2017, 10:23 PM
Other than the fact they felt they overdid the punish on falling over (assuming that was the frame of mind behind that particular hotfix), one change was to bring his guaranteed damage into line with the pc version which means they felt that was the correct version, not the console version, the other was a nerf of increased recovery time on hit. So, a bugfix, a slight buff on the punish, a nerf of half a second to recovery time so he can't spam lights as much, seems pretty fair.

Dizzy4213
05-19-2017, 10:33 PM
All that's happened is they've updated the console version to now match the PC version. Calm your tits.




Edit with Dev comments: For Honor seasons 2 was supposed to launch day 1 with a Live Update containing various fixes including changes to the new heroes on all platforms. This Live Update (V1.07.1) sadly only made it to PC as players on XB1 and PS4 did not get it leaving them playing with a version of the game never intended to go Live. That’s also why Elimination on consoles did not get only 1 revive per round.

PanzerShrekonin
05-19-2017, 10:35 PM
How did they buff the ShiNOOBi?

megamasa94
05-19-2017, 10:41 PM
How did they buff the ShiNOOBi?
as you mentioned in the name 'ShiNOOBi', it got buffed so you can punish 'NOOBS' with it..

CandleInTheDark
05-19-2017, 10:44 PM
All that's happened is they've updated the console version to now match the PC version. Calm your tits.

I missed that bit >.> yeah that makes sense given there were discrepancies between pc and console. I didn't go for lights (I am half scared to >.> pk's using more than one a round get spam hatemail) so won't feel the main thing they fixed overly much.

PanzerShrekonin
05-19-2017, 10:50 PM
as you mentioned in the name 'ShiNOOBi', it got buffed so you can punish 'NOOBS' with it..

Think it punishes more than noobs. Punishes anyone really. PK 2.0

CandleInTheDark
05-19-2017, 10:59 PM
Think it punishes more than noobs. Punishes anyone really. PK 2.0

Might be a bit different now on console, they added 200 ms to his recovery off lights in the hotfix as that is the version pc users got. His ranged stuff is plenty punishable as well. The issue right now is the people using the new characters know the kits of the old ones which makes a huge difference, people will catch up as they learn more.

Scorpion1980Lma
05-19-2017, 11:03 PM
yes. nerf

PanzerShrekonin
05-19-2017, 11:07 PM
Might be a bit different now on console, they added half a second to his recovery off lights in the hotfix as that is the version pc users got. His ranged stuff is plenty punishable as well. The issue right now is the people using the new characters know the kits of the old ones which makes a huge difference, people will catch up as they learn more.


Considering he's pretty much exactly like Pk without the bleed, he's going to get nerfed. Ubisoft hasn't learned that super fast lights aint a good idea.

And yes, the range is punishable for some characters. Not all.

megamasa94
05-19-2017, 11:08 PM
Think it punishes more than noobs. Punishes anyone really. PK 2.0
not really..good players actually dont have problems playing against it
basically everything you cant counter or play it should get nerfed? i suggest you learn a bit how punishable shinobi is, its actually hard to play with it..kicks are a bit too good but i believe it is for a good reason plus you can do dmg while he is preforming the kick so if low health (which is very often since needs 2-3 strikes to leave him with half of a bar) you kill him..
im reading all this 'nerf' posts from this and another thread (im waiting Lyskir to do some s hitting requesting shinobi nerf) and im thinking it is a very balanced character which most of you would figure if you turn the brain ON.. there are characters that are op *cough* warlord *cough* that can basically push you across the planet if there are no obstacles, and there are heroes that can take all of your stamina and put you in the corner and do whatever he wish cent..blah blah xD
if SHINOBI is as OP as alot of you are saying please make a video of you owning everybody with it..

PanzerShrekonin
05-19-2017, 11:11 PM
not really..good players actually dont have problems playing against it

Yes they do. lol

Oupyz
05-19-2017, 11:19 PM
they need to nerf thhe kick to 550ms and take Hyper Armor away , voila problem solved , right now he is very safe and a godly tier on his own , roman said they are looking at him , and they bellieve the kick is overpowered but 3 days weren't enough to decide what kind of nerf or adjustment the kick will have , but i'am confident within a week Shonibo will be nerfed , cause he's ahead of the rest of the cllasses and everybody knows that .

UbiNoty
05-19-2017, 11:20 PM
Just to clarify the on today's Shinobi/Centurion balance changes from the maintenance.

This build was meant to go live with 1.07 on tuesday, but due to an oversight was only released for PC. What you are seeing now is the original 1.07 release as we had intended.

Like I've said before, we're still just keeping an eye on the new heroes and will determine our next steps regarding any balancing in 2-3 weeks.

Maintenance details here (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1671813-Maintenance-May-19th-2017-Live-Update-on-Consoles)

Ggshadow
05-19-2017, 11:24 PM
The Shinobi suck lol, I literally farm them with my orochi lol, Ok Ok they are good for Ganking in 4v1 but seriously, the range attack is useless in 1v1 and they are soooo weak, but the Centurion, man wtf he is soo broken

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
05-19-2017, 11:31 PM
not really..good players actually dont have problems playing against it
.
No true scotsman much?

Jracoz
05-19-2017, 11:51 PM
I've been playing as the Shinobi since day 1 of his release and I have to say, he is not broken, his light attacks might be as fast as PK, but it doesn't do nearly as much dmg. A PK will drain your health with her 2 light combo while a Shinobi's 2 light combo only does about 4/5 of a single bar and it has a much slower chain period as compared to the PK's. His kick is quite good I will agree but it's also extremely readable and punishable. If I try to kick someone and they dodge out of the way, I've already inputted my ranged heavy attack so they are literally sitting there with a free parry coming to them. I've been fighting against Shinobi's as well and I must say that they are not all that hard to counter (I am a console player mind you). Between PK and Shinobi, PK is still the better character (and more broken one) by far.

lMoosel
05-19-2017, 11:55 PM
This is a very slippery slope and we will end up with a very dumbed down game if we go down the nerf route.
Instead I ask you to play an hour or 2 as one of them in practice and see their holes and weaknesses. Embrace a new fight and something different after 3 months of the same stuff and realize they aren't unbeatable/OP. If we go down this route now the turtle meta only grows.
This game needs he shake up to get
People moving and character openers.

CandleInTheDark
05-20-2017, 09:58 AM
Considering he's pretty much exactly like Pk without the bleed, he's going to get nerfed. Ubisoft hasn't learned that super fast lights aint a good idea.

And yes, the range is punishable for some characters. Not all.

I misread the patchnotes and it was 200 ms they added to recovery, not half a second, but the good thing that came of them having accidentally released the older version of the the characters for console is that we can see they are indeed taking into account past issues. The recovery between light chains is now 700 ms, which is where the peacekeeper's is post light spam nerf. Now you might say yes but the second hit is guaranteed, but every time I said the peacekeeper's isn't I was told it might ras well be with that speed, so more or less, the shinobi's capability with lights is now the same as peacekeeper post nerf(assuming the lights are no quicker, they don't feel like they are). Starting someone with lights at the same place that the other known for lights is now after having been nerfed doesn't sound all that bad and if it still needs fixing in that regard they can be fixed together.

SerArthur-Dayne
05-20-2017, 10:18 AM
Because its not a strong class at high levels of play. Because competent players can reliably ALWAYS parry his raged attacks and CGB. That throws a complete spanner in the works for this class. I made a thread breaking down why hw is actually underpowered, and im certain the stats will show the devs too, thats probably why they are buffing him.

Ive gotten shinobi almost to rep 5 and can play the hell out of him,but compared to my other two mains, my K/D is less than half of what it is with the others.

This is the thread where I explain why: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1671606-I-think-Shinobi-honestly-needs-a-moderate-buff-Using-my-own-player-stats-here

Gonna play some Cent next, and ill post the difference in my K/d between the two chars after a few reps, im pretty sure I know how this is gonna turn out.

ELDRIX_
05-20-2017, 10:37 AM
not really..good players actually dont have problems playing against it
basically everything you cant counter or play it should get nerfed? i suggest you learn a bit how punishable shinobi is, its actually hard to play with it..kicks are a bit too good but i believe it is for a good reason plus you can do dmg while he is preforming the kick so if low health (which is very often since needs 2-3 strikes to leave him with half of a bar) you kill him..
im reading all this 'nerf' posts from this and another thread (im waiting Lyskir to do some s hitting requesting shinobi nerf) and im thinking it is a very balanced character which most of you would figure if you turn the brain ON.. there are characters that are op *cough* warlord *cough* that can basically push you across the planet if there are no obstacles, and there are heroes that can take all of your stamina and put you in the corner and do whatever he wish cent..blah blah xD
if SHINOBI is as OP as alot of you are saying please make a video of you owning everybody with it..


the problem is that the shinobi DOES NOT fit into the game.
I may not have many problems fighting shinobi its just boring, because he needs to start every combo with a kick
and the only viable way to fight them is to chase em while spamming guardbreaks.

CandleInTheDark
05-20-2017, 11:04 AM
Because its not a strong class at high levels of play. Because competent players can reliably ALWAYS parry his raged attacks and CGB. That throws a complete spanner in the works for this class. I made a thread breaking down why hw is actually underpowered, and im certain the stats will show the devs too, thats probably why they are buffing him.

Ive gotten shinobi almost to rep 5 and can play the hell out of him,but compared to my other two mains, my K/D is less than half of what it is with the others.

This is the thread where I explain why: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1671606-I-think-Shinobi-honestly-needs-a-moderate-buff-Using-my-own-player-stats-here

Gonna play some Cent next, and ill post the difference in my K/d between the two chars after a few reps, im pretty sure I know how this is gonna turn out.

Not a buff, as was said yesterday, it was a bugfix, they released an old version of the new characters on console by mistake. People also forget that if we are talking abouta 'buff' he also got a 'nerf' in recovery between light attacks but oddly enough people constantly miss that one.


the problem is that the shinobi DOES NOT fit into the game.
I may not have many problems fighting shinobi its just boring, because he needs to start every combo with a kick
and the only viable way to fight them is to chase em while spamming guardbreaks.

Not all of them, but let's pretend it is for a moment and relate that to other classes, same as every warden starts with a shoulder block every time? Same as every lawbringer waits for a shove? Same as every warlord starts with a headbutt? Same as every conqueror does with a shield bash? The attack itself is new and needs getting used to the timing and tells of but the mechanic is not. Now people called for nerfs on those, I never used those characters (except the warden) but I didn't think there was an issue with abilities to break turtles,I would rather everyone had that, personally watching people wait for a parry to guardbreak to max punish bores me to tears, it is playing by the numbers which is why dominion is so much more fun to watch and play. With the defensive meta patch coming, hopefully everyone will have more options to open a fight with.

XxHunterHxX
05-20-2017, 11:47 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1671989-How-to-beat-shinobi-relly-ez-and-make-the-kick-useles-!-ubi-dont-Nerf-hem

Git Good ...

SanaMinatozaki-
05-20-2017, 11:48 AM
No nerfing of shinobi. I main her. She is strong in 1v1 but 4v4 she squishy

megamasa94
05-20-2017, 12:02 PM
the problem is that the shinobi DOES NOT fit into the game.
I may not have many problems fighting shinobi its just boring, because he needs to start every combo with a kick
and the only viable way to fight them is to chase em while spamming guardbreaks.
he doesnt need to start every combo with kick xD
if it is your only viable way to fight him by chasing and spamming guard breaks then might be problem in you.. what is your main tho?

HerZnait
05-20-2017, 12:42 PM
My main issues with shinobi:
1) characters with slower attacks literally cannot attack; Every time you try - attack is dodged or parried and you get ****load of dmg to your face
2) they always zone you, keep distance (regen stamina) and approach you only for their "50/50"... kick ->heavy, lights or heavies from random direction or GB. And you have to be a fkcing superman to react to that and punish
3) therefore only way to fight them - capitalize on their mistakes. But what if the do none? Like if the good player plays them? Then you just stand there and watch your hp gone without being able to do anything

I would say:
1) give them more hp
2) remove hyper armor from kick and make it a bit slower (like 20-30%)
or:
1) give them more hp
2) remove hyper armor from kick and make follow up do less dmg (like no guranteed heavy). Warlord has only 10 dmg guaranteed of his headbutt. Warden gets 2 lights.

P.S. i main raider

Alustar.
05-20-2017, 01:15 PM
the problem is that the shinobi DOES NOT fit into the game.
I may not have many problems fighting shinobi its just boring, because he needs to start every combo with a kick
and the only viable way to fight them is to chase em while spamming guardbreaks.

Ok, I'll bite. Go on, explain to everyone here how Shinobi doesn't fit intot he game.
Rules, cant use ranged argument when we have heroes like Valk/Law/Nobu, no Naruto bashing(I know, as much as I detest the show too, that argument just makes you look like a triggered high school jock wondering why these nerd are having fun and you aren't)
ok GO! =D

Vasher.
05-20-2017, 02:06 PM
Ok, I'll bite. Go on, explain to everyone here how Shinobi doesn't fit intot he game.
Rules, cant use ranged argument when we have heroes like Valk/Law/Nobu, no Naruto bashing(I know, as much as I detest the show too, that argument just makes you look like a triggered high school jock wondering why these nerd are having fun and you aren't)
ok GO! =D

The range argument works only because, any rebuttal to it is others have ranged feats...well it's just that, a feat...Shinobi has ranged regular attacks...there is a big damn difference there my friend.

CandleInTheDark
05-20-2017, 02:14 PM
The range argument works only because, any rebuttal to it is others have ranged feats...well it's just that, a feat...Shinobi has ranged regular attacks...there is a big damn difference there my friend.

Here is the thing though, the devs decided, in their world, in their game, they wanted to try something with range. They made it balanced, they made using those range abilities punishable and they made that punish hurt with the health pool, but ultimately the arguments against are we know better than the people whose job is developing the game.

Alustar.
05-20-2017, 02:19 PM
Here is the thing though, the devs decided, in their world, in their game, they wanted to try something with range. They made it balanced, they made using those range abilities punishable, but ultimately the arguments against are we know better than the people whose job is developing the game.

Also this, going to piggy back here, but when did we stop playing games and enjoying the content, OH WAIT! I know when, ever since 12-18 year old kids get on games populated widely by adults, they complain cause they don't perform as well. I was in a group with 3 kids all still in high school and below complaining saying that the mechanics of For Honor sucked, that they could make a better game. Seriously? WTF! If that is where this mentality is coming from, I hope to whatever god is out there that Ubisoft is taking these complaints with a grain of salt. Who are any of you to decide what belongs in a game you didn't create?

RatedChaotic
05-20-2017, 02:25 PM
Well, its been 3 days and centurion has already been nerfed, despite being no better than warlord, lawbringer or shugoki (all characters with spammable unblockables AND a high health pool).

Yet, shinobi (who was already a VERY good character) has been BUFFED!

Ubi say they adjust characters based on data, but what data can you get in 3 days? No-one has bothered learning how to counter centurion, they just whine and cry about how they're losing to better players.

Shinobi needs nerfing. His ranged attack is now near impossible to counter on console (no idea about PC), plus it's blatantly unfair that centurions get hit with a nerf after 3 days and shinobi doesn't.

I want people to comment 'yes' below if you want shinobi nerfed.
Bear in mind he's peacekeeper 2.0 and you've been crying about how powerful she is since day one (no real nerfs though).

I want to see lower attack speed and lower damage, or just remove him from the game completely for fun.

No ninja nerds please. We know you're out there and your opinions matter not. This is for people who want him nerfed only.

Your posting in a public forum and stating your opinion. Yet you only want people that agree with your opinion to post in your thread. One sided discussions wont help my friend. If you truely believe he needs the nerf, you wouldve encouraged those players to come forth and discuss the matter. Not hide from their opinions by telling them to stay out of this thread.

Their opinions matter whether you like it or not.

Personally, I dont like seeing buffs or nerfs when not all the players have access to them. You'll get more data when more players are playing them. But if its obvious that a nerf or buff is needed. I'm cool with that.

XxHunterHxX
05-20-2017, 03:00 PM
This is what i hear when people ask for a caracter to ghet nerfed....



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idFQUXNzgHo

The_B0G_
05-20-2017, 03:00 PM
I think the Shinobi is fine, he is easily punished, Centurion is the one who needs a slight nerf imo, I think his unblockables need to cost more stamina, so he can't chain 15 of them in a row before getting gassed.

HerZnait
05-20-2017, 03:54 PM
I think the Shinobi is fine, he is easily punished, Centurion is the one who needs a slight nerf imo, I think his unblockables need to cost more stamina, so he can't chain 15 of them in a row before getting gassed.

If you think he is fine, pls tell exactly how you can punish his 30/30/30 after dodge?
kick->heavy, heavy + light or light + light from random direction (as fast as pk), gb

Pls describe exactly my actions if ****nobi just keeps spamming these and dashing back to regen stamina.
Oh and also pls include out of stamina variants (coz he can get you out of stamina pretty easy).

P.S. Pk was top tier just having speed of shinobi + zone.
So how can pk on drugs with unblockables and "50/50" can be balanced?

Antonioj26
05-20-2017, 03:57 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1671989-How-to-beat-shinobi-relly-ez-and-make-the-kick-useles-!-ubi-dont-Nerf-hem

Git Good ...

You first, sub 40

Bracus_Maximus
05-20-2017, 04:10 PM
If you think he is fine, pls tell exactly how you can punish his 30/30/30 after dodge?
kick->heavy, heavy + light or light + light from random direction (as fast as pk), gb

Pls describe exactly my actions if ****nobi just keeps spamming these and dashing back to regen stamina.
Oh and also pls include out of stamina variants (coz he can get you out of stamina pretty easy).

P.S. Pk was top tier just having speed of shinobi + zone.
So how can pk on drugs with unblockables and "50/50" can be balanced?

After you dodged the kick? The you are in a situation where you are both face to face and about the same time to start an attack ( but i think you can start your attack a bit faster ).
If this is the case then you are in a better situation at that moment than against a peacekeeper as they hit harder face to face.

The_B0G_
05-20-2017, 04:11 PM
If you think he is fine, pls tell exactly how you can punish his 30/30/30 after dodge?
kick->heavy, heavy + light or light + light from random direction (as fast as pk), gb

Pls describe exactly my actions if ****nobi just keeps spamming these and dashing back to regen stamina.
Oh and also pls include out of stamina variants (coz he can get you out of stamina pretty easy).

P.S. Pk was top tier just having speed of shinobi + zone.
So how can pk on drugs with unblockables and "50/50" can be balanced?

Not sure how to explain it, all I know is I have trouble with maybe 1 out of every 10 shinobi, mabye it's that players that are good that you are facing. Centurion is the one with the ridiculous vortex of unblockable spam.

Antonioj26
05-20-2017, 04:14 PM
Not sure how to explain it, all I know is I have trouble with maybe 1 out of every 10 shinobi, mabye it's that players that are good that you are facing. Centurion is the one with the ridiculous vortex of unblockable spam.

Yeah lots of weeb trash pick up shinobi but that doesn't mean he isn't OP, weeb trash just suck. I guarantee he's going to dominate tournies but no one is going to believe this until it happens so I guess we will have to wait and see.

Lyskir
05-20-2017, 04:56 PM
Yeah lots of weeb trash pick up shinobi but that doesn't mean he isn't OP, weeb trash just suck. I guarantee he's going to dominate tournies but no one is going to believe this until it happens so I guess we will have to wait and see.

agree

berserker7331
05-20-2017, 04:57 PM
Yes, please nerf shinobi's kick and light atk recovery, people have been spamming it on and on and in the console, they are pretty much unavoidable

CandleInTheDark
05-20-2017, 05:00 PM
Yes, please nerf shinobi's kick and light atk recovery, people have been spamming it on and on and in the console, they are pretty much unavoidable

On the console, the light recovery was fixed yesterday, they accidentally put an old version of the new characters in which was what the hotfix yesterday was about. They added 200ms recovery to make it 700ms which is in line with the peacekeeper and the nerf she had two patches ago so I am guessing the build they put in was one they had in line before that nerf. The kick is dodgeable (and also interruptible if they eat an attack between the second dodge and the kick), but I do think the follow up attack to the kick shouldn't chain after a miss and that might do a bit to fix it in the heat of say dominion.

Knight_Gregor
05-20-2017, 05:13 PM
Not a buff, as was said yesterday, it was a bugfix, they released an old version of the new characters on console by mistake. People also forget that if we are talking abouta 'buff' he also got a 'nerf' in recovery between light attacks but oddly enough people constantly miss that one.

Yet him getting in a free light attack after a whiffed kick still hasn't been mentioned. I don't understand how anyone can defend that. It goes against the predetermined mechanic of dodging an unblockable to punish. Someone else keeps posting a video of two classes with quick attacks and an unblockable right after dodging as if that is a method all classes can use to counter it. It isn't. The very premise of an unblockable requires you to play reactively. They are essentially taking advantage and forcing usual reaction (in this case, dodging the unblockable and going for a guardbreak) and then throwing out a light attack to remain safe.



Not all of them, but let's pretend it is for a moment and relate that to other classes, same as every warden starts with a shoulder block every time? Same as every lawbringer waits for a shove? Same as every warlord starts with a headbutt? Same as every conqueror does with a shield bash? The attack itself is new and needs getting used to the timing and tells of but the mechanic is not. Now people called for nerfs on those, I never used those characters (except the warden) but I didn't think there was an issue with abilities to break turtles,I would rather everyone had that, personally watching people wait for a parry to guardbreak to max punish bores me to tears, it is playing by the numbers which is why dominion is so much more fun to watch and play. With the defensive meta patch coming, hopefully everyone will have more options to open a fight with.

The attack is not new. It's an unblockable. Plain and simple. The problem is the recovery time after it missing. C'mon, man. I'm not asking for your new main to be nerfed into the ground. But currently it is beyond abusable. And giving everyone anti-turtle options won't fix that.

The same goes for any class that has that ability.

CandleInTheDark
05-20-2017, 05:25 PM
Yet him getting in a free light attack after a whiffed kick still hasn't been mentioned. I don't understand how anyone can defend that. It goes against the predetermined mechanic of dodging an unblockable to punish. Someone else keeps posting a video of two classes with quick attacks and an unblockable right after dodging as if that is a method all classes can use to counter it. It isn't. The very premise of an unblockable requires you to play reactively. They are essentially taking advantage and forcing usual reaction (in this case, dodging the unblockable and going for a guardbreak) and then throwing out a light attack to remain safe.



The attack is not new. It's an unblockable. Plain and simple. The problem is the recovery time after it missing. C'mon, man. I'm not asking for your new main to be nerfed into the ground. But currently it is beyond abusable. And giving everyone anti-turtle options won't fix that.

The same goes for any class that has that ability.

Not my new main by any means, and I would like you to read my post above your current one. Specifically;


The kick is dodgeable (and also interruptible if they eat an attack between the second dodge and the kick), but I do think the follow up attack to the kick shouldn't chain after a miss and that might do a bit to fix it in the heat of say dominion.

Now yeah, if that means add recovery time, fair enough, but I posted that thirteen minutes before your post and it is in fact right above your post. In the posts you quoted, I was pointing out to people who don't want the kick to exist in the first place it seems that it is nothing new mechanically, but that post is not the first I have said the kick needs looking at.

Knight_Gregor
05-20-2017, 05:26 PM
Not my new main by any means, and I would like you to read my post above your current one. Specifically;



Now yeah, if that means add recovery time, fair enough, but I posted that thirteen minutes before your post and it is in fact right above your post..

But it was a recovery time between lights. Not recovery time after the unblockable kick. It's still happening. Happened last night, in fact. Which is why your post specifically above mine. EDIT: Apparently it is relevant. I just looked at the wrong one.

CandleInTheDark
05-20-2017, 05:29 PM
But it was a recovery time between lights. Not recovery time after the unblockable kick. It's still happening. Happened last night, in fact. Which is why your post specifically above mine. Isn't relevant.

I don't know how to say this clearer. A followup attack should not chain from the kick if the kick misses, as in, the opponent should have a chance to take the initiative, which is what I said in the post that is apparently not relevant. I even quoted the bit you needed to read in my last post.

Knight_Gregor
05-20-2017, 05:32 PM
I don't know how to say this clearer. A followup attack should not chain from the kick if the kick misses, as in, the opponent should have a chance to take the initiative, which is what I said in the post that is apparently not relevant.

I understand what you're trying to say. What I'm trying to tell you is that it a light attack does currently, whether chaining or not, make it in before most classes can take the initiative after dodging the kick.

The rocovery between light attack means nothing. Recovery comes after the attack. A recovery time would need to be placed on the kick. Not the lights.

CandleInTheDark
05-20-2017, 05:33 PM
I understand what you're trying to say. What I'm trying to tell you is that it a light attack does currently, whether chaining or not, make it in before most classes can take the initiative after dodging the kick.

So basically you're trying to tell me that an attack should not follow a missed kick.

We agree.

I have said this, several times, if that means a light too, that means a light too. At this point I am feeling a little trolled.

Knight_Gregor
05-20-2017, 05:39 PM
So basically you're trying to tell me that an attack should not follow the kick.

We agree.

I have said this, several times, if that means a light too, that means a light too. At this point I am feeling a little trolled.

I apologize. <---- Not sarcasm, btw

CandleInTheDark
05-20-2017, 05:40 PM
I apologize.

Mmk, I don't know if I make myself clear sometimes, what I was basically trying to say was pretty much exactly what you said, that a miss needs to be punishable.

Knight_Gregor
05-20-2017, 05:43 PM
Mmk, I don't know if I make myself clear sometimes, what I was basically trying to say was pretty much exactly what you said, that a miss needs to be punishable.

No. It's my fault. I edited the post to reflect my ignorance.

CandleInTheDark
05-20-2017, 05:48 PM
No. It's my fault. I edited the post to reflect my ignorance.

It's ok, meaning gets lost on the internet lol. I like the hero, I think if I didn't like the peacekeeper so much (not to mention stuck with her through all the hatred coming my way over it), I would main it, but even if I wouldn't, I don't want to see classes wrecked entirely because people don't know how to handle something new which is why I am sort of taking up the cause a little. I do think some things need fixing, the kick and a particular chain since as the movelist reads you should choose between spider silk whip (charged double heavy) and forward roll crush but as it stands you can do the roll after the complete chain. So those two things I do think need looking at.

Also the centurion. I probably won't play him all that much but I had a brilliant match against one with my berserker in dominion. I had gone to town on him in dauntless, went one too many and got gassed, he knocked me over, oh crud, pinned me to the floor. I sprung up and had to spend the next what felt like forever dodgeing and using the environment to keep myself clear of him before recovering and executing him. It is a challenge but one I am enjoying. I haven't faced many shinobi not playing as one but I am looking forward to working my way into figuring that out as well.

Haemmerst0rm
05-20-2017, 06:08 PM
Nerf shinobi to the ground. This game isnt about ******* bashing, kicking, punching! Remove hyper armor on shinobis kick and make it like nobushi kick: it can be interrupted with any attack!

Balanced.

Thanks!

Vingrask
05-20-2017, 07:07 PM
Talking about Duels:

Centurion is much more easy to deal than Shinobi, and I'm not seeing Centurions anymore. I faced 1 today, just 1, while Shinobi was a good amount.

The problem is how Shinobi can play safer than any other hero. A turtle Shinobi was the most annoying thing I faced since Season 2 started. About that, we need the defensive patch to see how things will go.

But let me state something: I still rather face a Shinobi than a Warden.

I don't want to see a nerf, and I'm happy Ubi will not change any hero until the defensive patch (at least was what I understand over what Roman said). After that, if the unbalanced way Shinobi can play safe remain, then I will be happy if adjusts come. Not a nerf like people are used to ask, but gameplay adjusts without make the hero weaker, if you know what I mean.

Jordan_Wolfe
05-22-2017, 05:12 AM
I hate that people are jumping straight to the "Nerf Shinobi" ship. Dude, if a Shinobi didn't drain with his kicks, if he didn't move fast and deal fast strikes, he would be almost useless in a fight. TRY TO PLAY THE CLASS AND UNDERSTAND BEFORE JUMPING TO "He's OP". He is squishy as ****, he takes damage while trying to kick, he has a harder time blocking than most other heroes, he FALLS TO THE FLOOR WHEN PARRIED ON A STRONG STRIKE OR GUARD BROKEN!

I swear, people just want to ***** because they want to be the strongest and it pisses me off. Shinobi are fast but they NEED that speed, otherwise they are squishy and useless. They NEED that stamina drain, because otherwise, HOW THE **** WOULD THEY HANDLE A BIG THREAT.. Like Shugoki, Warden, CENTURION!. That stamina drain from the kick gives Shinobi a fighting chance, since they literally die in 2-5 hits on ALL heroes. ONE HIT from a full Shugoki swing. I fought a Peacekeeper earlier that killed me in 2 ****ing stabs. 2!

Shinobi don't need a nerf, and I'm not going to jump on and say they need a buff, even though I would appreciate not dying from a accidental heavy when I'm in mid-kick, or dying in 1 Centurion combo.

They are where they NEED to be.. Ubisoft, PLEASE don't ruin the Shinobi by slowing them down. They are a fun class to play.. Fast, but squishy, LIKE THEY ARE SUPPOSE TO BE! And they are assassins, suppose to win through fast tactics, draining stamina, taking the will from their opponents, especially larger ones.

Instead of complaining about Shinobi, realise that you're not suppose to know how to counter EVERY ****ing hero. You're not a god, you're a fighter, a player, YOU LEARN AND YOU ADAPT. Stop trying to ***** and make everyone slow, that only helps those OP bigger guys like Centurion, because without speed, you're going to get hit, over and over. Beserker is more dangerous than a Shinobi!

Please use your heads..

PanzerShrekonin
05-22-2017, 05:49 AM
I hate that people are jumping straight to the "Nerf Shinobi" ship. Dude, if a Shinobi didn't drain with his kicks, if he didn't move fast and deal fast strikes, he would be almost useless in a fight. TRY TO PLAY THE CLASS AND UNDERSTAND BEFORE JUMPING TO "He's OP". He is squishy as ****, he takes damage while trying to kick, he has a harder time blocking than most other heroes, he FALLS TO THE FLOOR WHEN PARRIED ON A STRONG STRIKE OR GUARD BROKEN!

I swear, people just want to ***** because they want to be the strongest and it pisses me off. Shinobi are fast but they NEED that speed, otherwise they are squishy and useless. They NEED that stamina drain, because otherwise, HOW THE **** WOULD THEY HANDLE A BIG THREAT.. Like Shugoki, Warden, CENTURION!. That stamina drain from the kick gives Shinobi a fighting chance, since they literally die in 2-5 hits on ALL heroes. ONE HIT from a full Shugoki swing. I fought a Peacekeeper earlier that killed me in 2 ****ing stabs. 2!

Shinobi don't need a nerf, and I'm not going to jump on and say they need a buff, even though I would appreciate not dying from a accidental heavy when I'm in mid-kick, or dying in 1 Centurion combo.

They are where they NEED to be.. Ubisoft, PLEASE don't ruin the Shinobi by slowing them down. They are a fun class to play.. Fast, but squishy, LIKE THEY ARE SUPPOSE TO BE! And they are assassins, suppose to win through fast tactics, draining stamina, taking the will from their opponents, especially larger ones.

Instead of complaining about Shinobi, realise that you're not suppose to know how to counter EVERY ****ing hero. You're not a god, you're a fighter, a player, YOU LEARN AND YOU ADAPT. Stop trying to ***** and make everyone slow, that only helps those OP bigger guys like Centurion, because without speed, you're going to get hit, over and over. Beserker is more dangerous than a Shinobi!

Please use your heads..

lol OP centurion. What a joke. Fighting a centurion is quite easy.

You know your same arguement has been said for the PK at one point, which is exactly the same issues that people are having with ShiNOOBi. You are too fast and punishing you is nigh impossible. Your kick has hyper armor which makes it impossible to stop. Sure we can dodge, but we can't punihs you minus side steppers and the Law bringer((Though its not really a punish with pitiful damage from the law.))

Your light attacks are cancerous to block let alone parry, and you can switch your guard stance on a dime meaning your attacks come from everywhere.

Do I think they took the right step in the block time and the HP? Sure... too bad that HP means nothing if you dont get hit and with your speed you shouldn't be getting hit. Fighting a ShiNOOBi or a PK is alot harder than fighting a Shugoki and a warden.

Jordan_Wolfe
05-22-2017, 06:00 AM
lol OP centurion. What a joke. Fighting a centurion is quite easy.

You know your same arguement has been said for the PK at one point, which is exactly the same issues that people are having with ShiNOOBi. You are too fast and punishing you is nigh impossible. Your kick has hyper armor which makes it impossible to stop. Sure we can dodge, but we can't punihs you minus side steppers and the Law bringer((Though its not really a punish with pitiful damage from the law.))

Your light attacks are cancerous to block let alone parry, and you can switch your guard stance on a dime meaning your attacks come from everywhere.

Do I think they took the right step in the block time and the HP? Sure... too bad that HP means nothing if you dont get hit and with your speed you shouldn't be getting hit. Fighting a ShiNOOBi or a PK is alot harder than fighting a Shugoki and a warden.

Dude, I've seen people wreck Shinobi regardless of how fast we are, it's not impossible to punish the crap out of us. Keep your guard up and side step at the right time, you got us ****ed up. We can use light attacks, okay, but even I've seen people QUICKLY figure that out and block it, counter it with their own. I've been beat FAIR by Orochi's, PKs, Shugokis, Centurion, and a Nobushi.. Seems like you just don't understand the counter yet. And yeah, Centurions CAN be easy, but they can be the biggest pain in the *** ONCE they hit their first punch or kick on you.

kumanchik
05-22-2017, 06:11 AM
they need to nerf thhe kick to 550ms and take Hyper Armor away , voila problem solved , right now he is very safe and a godly tier on his own , roman said they are looking at him , and they bellieve the kick is overpowered but 3 days weren't enough to decide what kind of nerf or adjustment the kick will have , but i'am confident within a week Shonibo will be nerfed , cause he's ahead of the rest of the cllasses and everybody knows that .

dont you love how shinobi gets a free kick+heavy yet everyone complained about cent kick like wtf at least you can dodge cent kick

PanzerShrekonin
05-22-2017, 06:29 AM
Dude, I've seen people wreck Shinobi regardless of how fast we are, it's not impossible to punish the crap out of us. Keep your guard up and side step at the right time, you got us ****ed up. We can use light attacks, okay, but even I've seen people QUICKLY figure that out and block it, counter it with their own. I've been beat FAIR by Orochi's, PKs, Shugokis, Centurion, and a Nobushi.. Seems like you just don't understand the counter yet. And yeah, Centurions CAN be easy, but they can be the biggest pain in the *** ONCE they hit their first punch or kick on you.

Again. Its PK ALL over again. LIGHT ATTACKS FASTER THAN PEOPEL CAN CHANGE GUARD STANCE. Its the asme... thing.

THERE is no counter to the ShiNOOBi unless you play a super fast character.

PanzerShrekonin
05-22-2017, 06:32 AM
dont you love how shinobi gets a free kick+heavy yet everyone complained about cent kick like wtf at least you can dodge cent kick

You can dodge both kicks, but you can't punish a ShiNOOBi kick. You dont get a free GB at the end of theirs.

YuBiShiGouShi
05-22-2017, 06:44 AM
actually please just delete both the new characters.....maybe this i'd come back to this awful game.............NOT.(But maybe).

PanzerShrekonin
05-22-2017, 06:55 AM
actually please just delete both the new characters.....maybe this i'd come back to this awful game.............NOT.(But maybe).

Honstly, I really shouldn't care so much. Ffriday the 13th comes out this Friday. lol

but I mean the ShiNOOBi just raises my blood pressure so much.

Jordan_Wolfe
05-22-2017, 07:25 AM
dont you love how shinobi gets a free kick+heavy yet everyone complained about cent kick like wtf at least you can dodge cent kick

You can parry and instant kill a Shinobi if you side step and parry his strong strike, which again, brings the Shinobi TO THE FLOOR AND UNABLE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES! Trust me, it's easier to kill a shinobi than it is a Centurion that knows what they are doing. But you dodge a Centurion kick but fail to stop his next move, you will just end up getting nailed until you are floored, then stabbed in his super combo. Do you even play enough to say anything?

Jordan_Wolfe
05-22-2017, 07:28 AM
You can dodge both kicks, but you can't punish a ShiNOOBi kick. You dont get a free GB at the end of theirs.

You can however guard break during their dash BEFORE the kick, and it will work every time.. I hate GB so much because a smart player will catch me doing the dash and I usually forget to counter the guard break.

Jordan_Wolfe
05-22-2017, 07:34 AM
And I'm going to hate myself for saying this, Valk owns Shinobi easy.

PanzerShrekonin
05-22-2017, 07:41 AM
You can parry and instant kill a Shinobi if you side step and parry his strong strike, which again, brings the Shinobi TO THE FLOOR AND UNABLE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES! Trust me, it's easier to kill a shinobi than it is a Centurion that knows what they are doing. But you dodge a Centurion kick but fail to stop his next move, you will just end up getting nailed until you are floored, then stabbed in his super combo. Do you even play enough to say anything?

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
05-22-2017, 06:54 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1671989-How-to-beat-shinobi-relly-ez-and-make-the-kick-useles-!-ubi-dont-Nerf-hem

Git Good ...

That looked to be a closed environment in the video, so that kinda kills the validity of the video if that's the case.

He has a 50/50 on that, he can delay the kick for a free GB. He can also mix up into two free lights, so that kinda renders your video invalid.

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
05-22-2017, 06:57 PM
You can parry and instant kill a Shinobi if you side step and parry his strong strike, which again, brings the Shinobi TO THE FLOOR AND UNABLE TO DEFEND THEMSELVES! Trust me, it's easier to kill a shinobi than it is a Centurion that knows what they are doing. But you dodge a Centurion kick but fail to stop his next move, you will just end up getting nailed until you are floored, then stabbed in his super combo. Do you even play enough to say anything?

The new console update buffed that, now my LB can't even land a heavy if he's in range, not sure about other characters though.

CandleInTheDark
05-22-2017, 07:10 PM
The new console update buffed that, now my LB can't even land a heavy if he's in range, not sure about other characters though.

Again it wasn't a buff, it was a fix to put out the same version pc got, and no one mentions the 'nerf' among that when saying oh he got buffed.That build was likely pre-peacekeeper nerf since the light recovery had the same ranges (500 to 700ms) as the peacekeeper pre and post nerf.

Y_Shrewditch
05-22-2017, 08:17 PM
I'll jump on the bandwagon with a few cents worth of opinion, and let it be known beforehand that I consider myself an average skilled player with a lot to learn about the heroes.

I've been toying with shinobi in duels up until p1 lvl14 or so, while also playing my p5 Valk and p7 Nobushi, so I'm coming at this from all sides, not just from a pro-shinobi perspective.

He is high-risk, high-reward, with the only safe option the ddodge-kick-heavy-backflip, which he can 50/50 into a light (parryable) or guardbreak (counterable). I've been doing that out of necessity, because if I don't I lose.

I honestly don't know how I feel about him, if he were that OP I'd win most matchups, but I don't. While if I don't kick and try to go toe-to-toe, I lose most matches for sure. I don't really like 50/50s, that's why I hate fighting wardens and lawbringers, but given this is the best survivable action, annoying as it is, people will tend to use it most. With his low health and extremely slow heavies, he dies just too fast if he doesn't spam it. So if you nerf the kick, without addressing the strong weaknesses, you've just ruined this character completely.

I wouldn't know how to 'fix' him, if that's actually required, but maybe the people crying 'nerf' the loudest could try him out for a p or 2, and then come back and gloat about all the matches they've won and come up with a proper solution?

CandleInTheDark
05-22-2017, 08:25 PM
I'll jump on the bandwagon with a few cents worth of opinion, and let it be known beforehand that I consider myself an average skilled player with a lot to learn about the heroes.

I've been toying with shinobi in duels up until p1 lvl14 or so, while also playing my p5 Valk and p7 Nobushi, so I'm coming at this from all sides, not just from a pro-shinobi perspective.

He is high-risk, high-reward, with the only safe option the ddodge-kick-heavy-backflip, which he can 50/50 into a light (parryable) or guardbreak (counterable). I've been doing that out of necessity, because if I don't I lose.

I honestly don't know how I feel about him, if he were that OP I'd win most matchups, but I don't. While if I don't kick and try to go toe-to-toe, I lose most matches for sure. I don't really like 50/50s, that's why I hate fighting wardens and lawbringers, but given this is the best survivable action, annoying as it is, people will tend to use it most. With his low health and extremely slow heavies, he dies just too fast if he doesn't spam it. So if you nerf the kick, without addressing the strong weaknesses, you've just ruined this character completely.

I wouldn't know how to 'fix' him, if that's actually required, but maybe the people crying 'nerf' the loudest could try him out for a p or 2, and then come back and gloat about all the matches they've won and come up with a proper solution?

How dare you come here with well reasoned arguments ;) My only thing, having him at rep 1 and considering getting him into epic gear (well he is in the queue at least >.>) is that you can follow a kick with an attack whether you hit or miss. I think if the kick were made at least punishable on a miss it might be more palatable.

YuBiShiGouShi
05-22-2017, 08:59 PM
Yes please just remove him. I don't like how Ubisoft is supporting cowards.

CandleInTheDark
05-22-2017, 10:11 PM
my question about the shinobi, is why did they make his move less punishable, and the long distance gb less punishable? it doesn't bring all they way to your char anymore? seems a bit rediculous when it was already rediculous. that needed to stay the same, now they have even more motive just to play the long distance game since they cant be parried or dragged to the opposing char all the way if they are at max distance allowed to connect... seems kinda dumb. but me. i get in close with my cent and they die anyway.

That was how it was meant to be at the beginning. The patchnotes said that they accidentally released an old build onto the season 2 patch. Looking at the time they added to hit recovery I would say the build consoles originally got was pre peacekeeper light spam nerf.

Y_Shrewditch
05-22-2017, 10:43 PM
How dare you come here with well reasoned arguments ;) My only thing, having him at rep 1 and considering getting him into epic gear (well he is in the queue at least >.>) is that you can follow a kick with an attack whether you hit or miss. I think if the kick were made at least punishable on a miss it might be more palatable.

Well, I counted to 10 before I replied, that helped :)

I have the heavy (ranged but upclose) after a missed kick parried a lot, unless they keep spamming attacks, the light a bit less, but still enough to prefer a backflip over an attack. But I do get your point and I assume the main issue is with the follow-up light and how fast it is.

I really don't know what would happen if they take that away... I think I'll let them figure it out :)

CandleInTheDark
05-22-2017, 10:46 PM
Well, I counted to 10 before I replied, that helped :)

I have the heavy (ranged but upclose) after a missed kick parried a lot, unless they keep spamming attacks, the light a bit less, but still enough to prefer a backflip over an attack. But I do get your point and I assume the main issue is with the follow-up light and how fast it is.

I really don't know what would happen if they take that away... I think I'll let them figure it out :)

Counting to ten generally works wonders :)

Yeah that was what I was getting at, the fact that the attack comes so quickly afterwards that there is no punish unless you then block or parry the next attack where the thing is they already screwed up in throwing and missing the kick.

chaydawg01
05-22-2017, 10:48 PM
I agree the shinobi needs lower attack speed. Once they get me locked in I can't get out. I've also seen Shinobi spam the double dodge kick it needs to cost more stamina. I also think that the ranged attack should be easier to block. Anyways yes please it needs to be nerfed.

Knight_Raime
05-22-2017, 11:38 PM
How dare you come here with well reasoned arguments ;) My only thing, having him at rep 1 and considering getting him into epic gear (well he is in the queue at least >.>) is that you can follow a kick with an attack whether you hit or miss. I think if the kick were made at least punishable on a miss it might be more palatable.

7/13 heros technically hav a way to punish either the whiffed kick into heavy or the whiffed kick into back flip. some can punish both. But yes the kick is his only problem. I think they should add recovery to a whiffed kick. that wayit's punishable with light attacks and a timed dodge. But if the enemy doesn't act fast enough you'd still be able to back flip away from harm.
I also think the armor on the kick should be removed. It actually really doesn't do anything for him. Most attacks thrown on reaction are not fast enough to punish the kick anyway. this will just let punishes be more consistent.

KnifeInUrNeck
05-23-2017, 12:25 AM
Lol 3 days and crying for nerfs. It is guaranteed that most of the people crying OP have never tried the character. His range is nullified by obstacles and teammates/minions. If he tries to range GB or range heavy and hits a friendly, he'll pull/dmg them. His kick has Hyper Armor which I guess is super spooky? A smart person would see that this means he has to commit. What does this mean? A smart person gets a free heavy! Do that twice on a character and he's dead or close to it. He burns through stamina while only half of his combo does damage. When stamina is out, his whole kit disappears. He has slow heavies. They are vulnerable to long weapons. Really, all you have to do is play him to see his vulnerabilities but I guess that's asking too much. I can't wait for all these people screaming OP to get their hands on him tomorrow and just get **** on.

Synsif
05-23-2017, 12:37 AM
Well, its been 3 days and centurion has already been nerfed, despite being no better than warlord, lawbringer or shugoki (all characters with spammable unblockables AND a high health pool).

Yet, shinobi (who was already a VERY good character) has been BUFFED!

Ubi say they adjust characters based on data, but what data can you get in 3 days? No-one has bothered learning how to counter centurion, they just whine and cry about how they're losing to better players.

Shinobi needs nerfing. His ranged attack is now near impossible to counter on console (no idea about PC), plus it's blatantly unfair that centurions get hit with a nerf after 3 days and shinobi doesn't.

I want people to comment 'yes' below if you want shinobi nerfed.
Bear in mind he's peacekeeper 2.0 and you've been crying about how powerful she is since day one (no real nerfs though).

I want to see lower attack speed and lower damage, or just remove him from the game completely for fun.

No ninja nerds please. We know you're out there and your opinions matter not. This is for people who want him nerfed only.

Dude, are you serious? 3 days and you already want Shinobi nerfed. That's obsured. How about you take some time to learn to fight him instead of playing for 3 days and assuming he's just like PK. Shinobi is different in terms of strength. Here's why. The first thing is this, while Shinobi has fast attacks and good openers, he has a tiny health pool. 90 health. 90. If you make 1 or 2 mistakes, you're dead. In terms of his moveset, it is strong. It has to be because of his health. It's called balance. That being said, it's not so strong that it can't be countered. The kick can be dodged and the ranger attacks can be countered. You can easily Parry the ranged heavies and tech the counter guard break. I do it all the time and I'm on console too. So we have established that his health pool is miniscule and that his moveset is strong but not uncounterable, is that still not balanced enough for you? It isn't? Okay. He also has a 500ms guard decay. Basically, he can't block to save his life (literally). So yes, he has a strong moveset. But this moveset IS counterable on all platforms of the game. To compensate for this strong moveset, he has a low health pool and bad defensive mechanics to encourage dodging. This is how they balanced Shinobi. You can cry about how OP he is after he's been out for a month. 3 days is ridiculous.

Antonioj26
05-23-2017, 12:50 AM
Dude, are you serious? 3 days and you already want Shinobi nerfed. That's obsured. How about you take some time to learn to fight him instead of playing for 3 days and assuming he's just like PK. Shinobi is different in terms of strength. Here's why. The first thing is this, while Shinobi has fast attacks and good openers, he has a tiny health pool. 90 health. 90. If you make 1 or 2 mistakes, you're dead. In terms of his moveset, it is strong. It has to be because of his health. It's called balance. That being said, it's not so strong that it can't be countered. The kick can be dodged and the ranger attacks can be countered. You can easily Parry the ranged heavies and tech the counter guard break. I do it all the time and I'm on console too. So we have established that his health pool is miniscule and that his moveset is strong but not uncounterable, is that still not balanced enough for you? It isn't? Okay. He also has a 500ms guard decay. Basically, he can't block to save his life (literally). So yes, he has a strong moveset. But this moveset IS counterable on all platforms of the game. To compensate for this strong moveset, he has a low health pool and bad defensive mechanics to encourage dodging. This is how they balanced Shinobi. You can cry about how OP he is after he's been out for a month. 3 days is ridiculous.

Only dummies use the ranged attacks so throw that completely out of your argument. It doesn't take a month to realize that a safe 400ms unblockable 50/50 with hyper armor and a guaranteed heavy follow is a bad idea for a character when it's damn near what conqueror had on his sb except better before they nerfed it.

JibletHunter
05-23-2017, 01:49 AM
It seems like shinobi is suffering from a pretty low win rate in my tests in comparison to other characters. I would wait and see how he performs.It seems like centurion is much more common/powerful.

CaptainPwnet
05-23-2017, 04:38 AM
Only dummies use the ranged attacks so throw that completely out of your argument. It doesn't take a month to realize that a safe 400ms unblockable 50/50 with hyper armor and a guaranteed heavy follow is a bad idea for a character when it's damn near what conqueror had on his sb except better before they nerfed it.

Posted this in another thread about the dbl dash kick:

Shinobi kick isn't a problem at all. You can punish the dbl dash in most situations and GB or hit the shinobi before the kick even comes out. Or at least when you trade with the kick it's always in your favor due to the large health difference. You trade the kick with a light for 15 damage lets say and his heavy does 25. 10 damage difference seems fair in most cases since he has 2 bars less health than many heroes. If he were to trade kicks with lights over and over he would likely lose. That's only if you trade with a light, I've noticed bushi can trade with zone which is about half shinobi's health, PK, rochi and warden I know for sure have reliable zone punishes on dbl dash as well so yeah I think people need to stop crying and focus efforts on centurions 4v4 bs potential. I imagine soon enough shinobi will end up useless in 1v1 when people learn it isn't terribly hard to just trade with the kick/gb mixup and heavily punish the squishy shinobi.

Just to make sure you understand as well, any attack used on reaction to punish the dbl dash will either hit shinobi before the kick comes out or trade with the kick or beat the GB. I am not seeing how kick even as it is currently, is even in shinobi's favor at the moment against anyone who knows what they are doing. Good players are learning to trade with it and any trade is not in shinboi's favor. The only one that comes close to ok is the light trade with kick. Every other situation is a huge disadvantage for shinobi. Not saying it's already useless against skilled players just yet but time will tell. Don't think we'll be seeing any shinobi's winning tournaments any time soon.

I would probably agree it does too much stam damage but nothing else is wrong with it. It's not like he can react to you dashing and GB instead of kick, it's a guess on his part as well. Changing anything about the kick aside from the stamina damage will turn it into a useless tool. Removing its armor would make any trade with kick leave shinobi at a HUGE disadvantage thx to his low health, making it slower or more punishable will also destroy it as it isn't hard to dodge already and if he risks a punish on whiff then again it is just never in shinobi's favor to ever use kick. Kick lands he gets 25 damage sure, but if it was avoided and punishable he loses 30+ health depending on hero and if wall is nearby. He already has less health so the risk vs reward would make kick entirely not worth it unless you are just reacting to punish something with it. Then we are back to good ol defensive For Honor where no one attacks until they can react to punish their opponent.

I could see maybe changing it so that other unblockable shoves would trade with it so that both parties are staggered by their opponents shoves and neither can follow up. But anything else and they better put his health up to 4 1/2 bars and make his guard like the other assassins.

In teams I can see how it's frustrating, but is it really more frustrating than all the other unblockables spam? Lets be real here in this situation centurion is far far worse.

Another note, the kick itself is fast yes. But the dbl dash lead up to kick is not and overall makes this move not very fast and since you can be hit during the dbl dash before the kick it can be very unsafe.

If anything in the long run I bet shinobi is going to need buffs once people figure this out. More i-frames on the dbl dash or something I dunno. But lets not get ahead of ourselves. Though if ubi nerfs this character in a week they will likely be making a big mistake like they initially did with valk during the beta tests.

Jordan_Wolfe
05-23-2017, 05:18 AM
Yes please just remove him. I don't like how Ubisoft is supporting cowards.

I love this post.. why? Because it's made by someone who calls people cowards for not wanting to be some weapon swinging neanderthal. Face it dude, in a fight with swords and weapons, David vs Goliath isn't a fun situation for the smaller guy. We have to be smart and use the environment, or our speed to counter the fact the big guy would eat us alive in a few hits.

Reinier-dash
05-23-2017, 11:49 AM
Nice nerf shinobi becuase you *******s can't win vs him

Devil_Sparda
05-23-2017, 04:20 PM
Just changed the side kick dodge. And it s fine. Because every engage u did, he can just side dodge it and punish.. That s all

WFL_M4sT3R_
05-23-2017, 04:22 PM
Its not like the centurion, it can be killed with 2-3 hits so its ok but Centurion need changes

Devil_Sparda
05-23-2017, 06:58 PM
Its not like the centurion, it can be killed with 2-3 hits so its ok but Centurion need changes
Enjoy to hit him, and BTW, cent is hybrid, 20 hp more

WFL_M4sT3R_
05-23-2017, 07:19 PM
Well, its been 3 days and centurion has already been nerfed, despite being no better than warlord, lawbringer or shugoki (all characters with spammable unblockables AND a high health pool).

Yet, shinobi (who was already a VERY good character) has been BUFFED!

Ubi say they adjust characters based on data, but what data can you get in 3 days? No-one has bothered learning how to counter centurion, they just whine and cry about how they're losing to better players.

Shinobi needs nerfing. His ranged attack is now near impossible to counter on console (no idea about PC), plus it's blatantly unfair that centurions get hit with a nerf after 3 days and shinobi doesn't.

I want people to comment 'yes' below if you want shinobi nerfed.
Bear in mind he's peacekeeper 2.0 and you've been crying about how powerful she is since day one (no real nerfs though).

I want to see lower attack speed and lower damage, or just remove him from the game completely for fun.

No ninja nerds please. We know you're out there and your opinions matter not. This is for people who want him nerfed only.

Shinobi is ok, the only problem is if you don't know how to play against it.at 1vs1 mode. I mean if you catch it 2-3 heavy hits and its dead! On the other side it can be deadly as hell in skilled hands, but its same like other characters, skilled hands matter and thats it. Heavy and sluggish heroes will have problem to catch it, but skilled berserker and peacekeeper can outmatch it easily. I wouldn't touch shinobi maybe some small nerf but like it is now its okay.

manna91
05-23-2017, 07:28 PM
Don't go trying to nerf something just because you don't know how to fight him. I remember when I came off the beta all the new characters seemed OP. They weren't, people just needed to get used to fighting them, since they are different then what you are used too. Give it more time. Do custom games against lvl 3 bots and learn all the enemy moves and when they can use them.

CaTaStR0Fa
05-24-2017, 01:07 AM
The funny thing is that people say you can punish the kicks of the new classes..Well i main lb and everytime i avoid the kicks and i go to gb them or hit them they hit first so where is the ****ing punish?.And the stamina drain god.....2 combo and you say bb to your stamina especialy with lb who has low stamina pool.My opinion is that shinobi is a gamebreaker with his movesets and his graphics. There are too many naruto/ninja funboys and ofc ubisoft chase them to get more people......