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Herbstlicht
05-19-2017, 04:23 PM
An adjustment of like 25ms to attack indicators + 1 frame to attack and parry indicators - as an option - simple as that.

Reasoning behind it: Especially with the Centurion, I realize that after a lot of practice, I act in a way that it is completely synchron with the white flash when parrying. However, to achieve this, I input before the attack indicator begins flashing. Now I have a 2017 model TV with low display lag - dunno about others out there - but 30 fps combined with the inevitable lag any display besides computer screens will give you, means that no matter how fast and good you are, mistakes are sure to happen.
Of course, that creates something like it's own special game. But it creates a lot of problems and possible unjustified nerfs as well.

I am no real expert on stuff like frame timings etc., but I "guess" that 25ms (maybe 20?) is what many people are sure to experience in display lag, possibly even more so. Furthermore, due to the 30 fps only, especially the parry indicator seems like invisible at times. Guess that is not intended.

So dear devs and console players - what do you think? Is this something you could fix? Personally, I would really love it.

If there are some Reddit-Users out there (because I am none) - maybe this would be interesting out there as well. So feel free to bring it up to discussion wherever you go :3

Antonioj26
05-19-2017, 05:00 PM
An adjustment of like 25ms to attack indicators + 1 frame to attack and parry indicators - as an option - simple as that.

Reasoning behind it: Especially with the Centurion, I realize that after a lot of practice, I act in a way that it is completely synchron with the white flash when parrying. However, to achieve this, I input before the attack indicator begins flashing. Now I have a 2017 model TV with low display lag - dunno about others out there - but 30 fps combined with the inevitable lag any display besides computer screens will give you, means that no matter how fast and good you are, mistakes are sure to happen.
Of course, that creates something like it's own special game. But it creates a lot of problems and possible unjustified nerfs as well.

I am no real expert on stuff like frame timings etc., but I "guess" that 25ms (maybe 20?) is what many people are sure to experience in display lag, possibly even more so. Furthermore, due to the 30 fps only, especially the parry indicator seems like invisible at times. Guess that is not intended.

So dear devs and console players - what do you think? Is this something you could fix? Personally, I would really love it.

If there are some Reddit-Users out there (because I am none) - maybe this would be interesting out there as well. So feel free to bring it up to discussion wherever you go :3

I like the idea because it will help future balance patches. I've tested my reaction speeds on both the PlayStation and my pc. I was somewhere around 230ms with PC and 340 with PlayStation. That's a huge gap in this game. The only problem with this suggestion is I fear it will bring the turtle meta to console.

Neversetdrums
05-19-2017, 05:45 PM
I like the idea because it will help future balance patches. I've tested my reaction speeds on both the PlayStation and my pc. I was somewhere around 230ms with PC and 340 with PlayStation. That's a huge gap in this game. The only problem with this suggestion is I fear it will bring the turtle meta to console.

true, what bothers me the most is that the AI opponents,at or after like lvl 2, become Gods of the game, as they do not suffer from A) input lag, B) frame rate reaction. People complain about lights from other players, but play a lvl 3 Bot on console. They'll absolutely SAVAGE you with light attacks that cannot be stopped. You're always a hair behind. I try to practice on these because it's a good way to get a grasp of a characters fundamentals, but it's hard to practice real fights, as they're just relentless and impossible to stop.

Herbstlicht
05-19-2017, 07:51 PM
Hm, you really think 25ms, or 20, would introduce turtle meta? We are atill at 30 fps. Most use wireless controllers and only the best TV-Sets are about 20'ish ms display delay, with around 40'ish already considered good. So of course, it might make defending somewhat easier, but turtle meta is about to go. And as i pointed out, some heros become mechanic-wise kinda unfair for some people because there no longer is a counter. And with this, worsr case szenario, higher skill lvl play on console will at some point exclude some classes. Would be somewhat sad.

Antonioj26
05-19-2017, 08:02 PM
Hm, you really think 25ms, or 20, would introduce turtle meta? We are atill at 30 fps. Most use wireless controllers and only the best TV-Sets are about 20'ish ms display delay, with around 40'ish already considered good. So of course, it might make defending somewhat easier, but turtle meta is about to go. And as i pointed out, some heros become mechanic-wise kinda unfair for some people because there no longer is a counter. And with this, worsr case szenario, higher skill lvl play on console will at some point exclude some classes. Would be somewhat sad.

It's a slight concern but I don't think it would happen for sure. It's just something that I think would aid in getting us closer to it

Dizzy4213
05-19-2017, 08:04 PM
I don't really know about this.

Ever since the Deadzone Adjustment option was introduced, I've been able to consistently block and even parry light spam. Everyone can agree, playing at 30fps isn't the best. But you have to look at it the other way around as well. The defensive meta is nowhere near as bad as it is on PC. People aren't afraid to throw out raw heavies and I love it.

Herbstlicht
05-19-2017, 08:48 PM
Well, I don't know about it either, but I gave it a lot of thought.
First, the values are rather low, something people might even not really notice. With an average human reaction time of roughly 250ms, a tenth of it added to 30 fps, screen lag, networking etc. - i think it would only help with the likes of Centurion and maybe Shinobi ranged stuff, where you need this indicator to be able to react at all. Against the others, you already work on your intuition and muscle memory, that is why we are rather good even against fast chars now.

Furthermore, with the upcoming turtle meta removal, it might actually be more important - especially for the tankier classes with lower range - to defend efficiently.

But well, it might just be the silly me that dislikes to exchange pc-screen for my tv.
However, of this one thing i can assure you all: using a gaming monitor makes it way easier, because you see the flash when it counts. React on it and centurion gets punished easily for example.

Antonioj26
05-19-2017, 09:19 PM
Well, I don't know about it either, but I gave it a lot of thought.
First, the values are rather low, something people might even not really notice. With an average human reaction time of roughly 250ms, a tenth of it added to 30 fps, screen lag, networking etc. - i think it would only help with the likes of Centurion and maybe Shinobi ranged stuff, where you need this indicator to be able to react at all. Against the others, you already work on your intuition and muscle memory, that is why we are rather good even against fast chars now.

Furthermore, with the upcoming turtle meta removal, it might actually be more important - especially for the tankier classes with lower range - to defend efficiently.

But well, it might just be the silly me that dislikes to exchange pc-screen for my tv.
However, of this one thing i can assure you all: using a gaming monitor makes it way easier, because you see the flash when it counts. React on it and centurion gets punished easily for example.

I'm sincerely considering buying a monitor but I have no idea which one or what I should be looking for

dekot11
05-19-2017, 09:28 PM
deadzone change helped a lot.

Herbstlicht
05-19-2017, 09:34 PM
I'm sincerely considering buying a monitor but I have no idea which one or what I should be looking for

Well, a nice big hdr monitor will net you min 1000 bucks. More standart models will be around 200-300 if you only want a bigger screen with nice latency (3ms).

However, I honestly enjoy my HDR tv ... changin to monitor only for testing. Couch gaming is the best. More relaced anayway. Makes for less salty players.

Lumina-US
05-19-2017, 10:32 PM
deadzone change helped a lot.Just out of pure curiousity - what value are you using?

4,5,6? - I'm playing on XBOX and i've been fiddling around with all values below 10 - but i'm still not sure which one helps the cause the most.

dekot11
05-19-2017, 10:37 PM
I'm using 1, you should too, unless your controller is messed up. I would do 0 if I could.

Lumina-US
05-19-2017, 10:38 PM
I'm using 1, you should tooAnd why? - considering i never had to change the "deadzone" in any games before (very few, to almost no games even allow you to do that) i don't have much xp with that stuff.

What does actually change ingame by using 1? (i'm on 5 atm) and well, the difference is super minor.

dekot11
05-19-2017, 10:46 PM
And why? - considering i never had to change the "deadzone" in any games before (very few, to almost no games even allow you to do that) i don't have much xp with that stuff.

What does actually change ingame by using 1? (i'm on 5 atm) and well, the difference is super minor.

it makes it more sensitive so that the distance you move your stick is shorter for the input to go through.

only downside I see to this is that they might make 500ms lights the new normal for everybody. I got a feeling the samurai buffs are just going to be sped up lights.

Lumina-US
05-19-2017, 11:01 PM
it makes it more sensitive so that the distance you move your stick is shorter for the input to go through.

only downside I see to this is that they might make 500ms lights the new normal for everybody. I got a feeling the samurai buffs are just going to be sped up lights.Oddly enough the game suggests 0 = no deadzone, yet you can't select that.

Feels like going to McDonalds and they tell you "Sorry, we sell everything else to you, but no BigMac's".

dekot11
05-19-2017, 11:16 PM
Oddly enough the game suggests 0 = no deadzone, yet you can't select that.

Feels like going to McDonalds and they tell you "Sorry, we sell everything else to you, but no BigMac's.

hopefully that means we can set it to 0 in the future

UbiNoty
05-19-2017, 11:31 PM
I believe we've mentioned previously that we don't really have any plans to do separate balancing for consoles and PC. We're still keeping an open mind about it as an option down the road, and so I'll pass it over to the team, but you likely won't see something along these lines soon unfortunately.

Alustar.
05-19-2017, 11:33 PM
It's topics like these that make me want to run a completely corded set up and a good tv. Just too lazy to run the cables and go get a new controller/ tv just to play for honor better

Herbstlicht
05-19-2017, 11:52 PM
I believe we've mentioned previously that we don't really have any plans to do separate balancing for consoles and PC. We're still keeping an open mind about it as an option down the road, and so I'll pass it over to the team, but you likely won't see something along these lines soon unfortunately.

Honestly, I do know stuff like this would require coding. But it would not mean a difference in balancing, it would mean more parity due to minimalizing the percieved difference in gameplay. I do deem this two different things.

In the end, the majority of us is more of the relaxed and layed back kind of players (or so i think). However, that doesn't mean, specially with defencive meta nerf upcoming, that we wouldn't possibly enjoy quality of life adjustments. And that it exactly what this would be.

Lumina-US
05-20-2017, 09:35 AM
It's topics like these that make me want to run a completely corded set up and a good tv. Just too lazy to run the cables and go get a new controller/ tv just to play for honor betterYou also know that things like these cost money - right?

A new controller isn't much of an issue, i literally just bought one two days ago, because 3 months of daily FOR ERROR, screwed up the Analog triggers and the LT/RT buttons so bad, that i had no other option. (Thank you Ubisoft for ruining one of my fav gamepads, the color it had is also no longer available, so thanks again!)

But i, sure as hell, don't have enough money just throw out the window for a super expensive TV, that meets all the latest and greatest standards.

I have an ampartement and bills to pay, so my nearly 8 year old Sony Bravia will still have to work for a while.

Antonioj26
05-20-2017, 09:38 AM
You also know that things like these cost money - right?

A new controller isn't much of an issue, i litterally just bought one two days ago, because 3 months of daily FOR ERROR, screwed up the Analog triggers and the LT/RT buttons so bad, that i had no other option. (Thank you Ubisoft for ruining one of my fav gamepads, the color it had is also no longer available, so thanks again!)

But i, sure as hell, don't have enough money just throw out the window for a super expensive TV, that meets all the latest and greatest standards.

I have an ampartement and bills to pay, so my nearly 8 year old Sony Bravia will still have to work for a while.

Wait how did ubi break your controller? I don't get how the "for error" messed up your sticks and triggers. Do you do that thing where you grip the s hit out of it when you are getting frustrated?

You can get a solid gaming monitor for $200 bucks

Lumina-US
05-20-2017, 09:43 AM
Wait how did ubi break your controller? I don't get how the "for error" messed up your sticks and triggers. Do you do that thing where you grip the s hit out of it when you are getting frustrated?Considering, you need to tip/steer those buttons in a mere seconds in several directions with Superman-like reflexes, the buttons you have to use over and over are likely to become "loose" faster, everyone who doesn't play the game on PC with a Mouse & Keyboard knows that.

Take an XBOX/PS4 controller and hammer on the same ever button over and over in a near superhuman tempo, you will then quickly notice where my point comes from.

As for the solid gaming monitor, sorry if i wanted that, i would play on my PC instead of Consoles.

Antonioj26
05-20-2017, 09:48 AM
Considering, you need to tip/steer those buttons in a mere seconds in several directions with Superman-like reflexes, the buttons you have to use over and over are likely to become "loose" faster, everyone who doesn't play the game on PC with a Mouse & Keyboard knows that.

Take an XBOX/PS4 controller and hammer on the same ever button over and over in a near superhuman tempo, you will then quickly notice where my point comes from.

Idunno mines been fine since I've picked up this game. It's been spiked into the ground by either my cousin or me and it's still running pretty well on occasion the touch pad will get activated when I hit square but I think that goes back to me slamming my controller into the floor and not so much for honor. Not sure why you think a monitor is mutually exclusive to PC but okay.

Lumina-US
05-20-2017, 09:52 AM
Idunno mines been fine since I've picked up this game. It's been spiked into the ground by either my cousin or me and it's still running pretty well on occasion the touch pad will get activated when I hit square but I think that goes back to me slamming my controller into the floor and not so much for honor. Not sure why you think a monitor is mutually exclusive to PC but okay.I didn't say it's exclusive to PC, but 9 out of 10 people who prefer to play on Consoles, use their TV's as a display, instead of other monitors.

Antonioj26
05-20-2017, 10:01 AM
I didn't say it's exclusive to PC, but 9 out of 10 people who prefer to play on Consoles, use their TV's as a display, instead of other monitors.

Whelp you spoke about not having a tv with the latest and greatest standards and you also mentioned you don't have a ton of money so here's a simple and relatively cheap solution to your problem. If you don't want to take the suggestion then fine but the I bet that random number you threw out there about people playing on their tv would be different if they knew how much more they could get out of a monitor especially in games like these where every fraction of a second counts.

Herbstlicht
05-20-2017, 10:53 AM
Well, Antonioj, new Hardware should not be mandatory for anyone to enjoy stuff. I mean guys that bought 2016 hdr tv's might have display lag as bad as 50ms with a new set - that's not good. They just recently improved on this. And many aren't even aware. Because in the past, this stuff was .. it didn't matter.
We had our console fighter, optimized for consoles. Most capeable of allowing couch coop. We had a hella lot of games, but when did screen lag become something you really felt? Normally never, because developers figured in there might be some and created their games as responsive as possible. So you never realized this was a thing.

For Honor is different in this regard. Should we now, to have a "good time" all switch to monitors? I'd say no. Besides, most might even be worse off - big screen gaming simply has it's own feel and benefits. But a slight adjustment from the developer's side might already improve the life throughout the board. So I really wonder even considering buying new Hardware instead of asking for a quality of life improvement ..

Alustar.
05-20-2017, 12:48 PM
You also know that things like these cost money - right?

A new controller isn't much of an issue, i literally just bought one two days ago, because 3 months of daily FOR ERROR, screwed up the Analog triggers and the LT/RT buttons so bad, that i had no other option. (Thank you Ubisoft for ruining one of my fav gamepads, the color it had is also no longer available, so thanks again!)

But i, sure as hell, don't have enough money just throw out the window for a super expensive TV, that meets all the latest and greatest standards.

I have an ampartement and bills to pay, so my nearly 8 year old Sony Bravia will still have to work for a while.

OK, nice troll?

Alustar.
05-20-2017, 12:50 PM
Considering, you need to tip/steer those buttons in a mere seconds in several directions with Superman-like reflexes, the buttons you have to use over and over are likely to become "loose" faster, everyone who doesn't play the game on PC with a Mouse & Keyboard knows that.

Take an XBOX/PS4 controller and hammer on the same ever button over and over in a near superhuman tempo, you will then quickly notice where my point comes from.

As for the solid gaming monitor, sorry if i wanted that, i would play on my PC instead of Consoles.

Yeah, what Antonio said, I've dropped mine so many times it makes me rage, I've played this game since the week after it hit and both of my controllers are fine. Maybe it's you.

DrExtrem
05-20-2017, 12:55 PM
I like the idea because it will help future balance patches. I've tested my reaction speeds on both the PlayStation and my pc. I was somewhere around 230ms with PC and 340 with PlayStation. That's a huge gap in this game. The only problem with this suggestion is I fear it will bring the turtle meta to console.

But since every late adjustment to the game was done to fight the turtle meta, it would at least even the playing (and balancing) field.

The shinobi it totally op on console, because it is too fast to react to and if you face one of them, your only hope is, that they **** up. Why? Because they were designed and adjusted with the turtle mets in mind. On console, even passive and thoughtful playing does not help you, because you either get overwhelmed by its speed or their turtle breakers.

DrExtrem
05-20-2017, 01:00 PM
Wait how did ubi break your controller? I don't get how the "for error" messed up your sticks and triggers. Do you do that thing where you grip the s hit out of it when you are getting frustrated?

You can get a solid gaming monitor for $200 bucks

That's fine - but we play on our sofas not desks. I have a rather small living room and my tv screen is only 37'. To play on a gaming monitor, I would have to sit in front of it. That's not how anybody wants to play in a living room.

Btw. I did not find the line where the devs say, that I have to buy a gaming monitor for my xbox to compensate their ****ed up balancing. Maybe I should send them the bill?

Alustar.
05-20-2017, 01:05 PM
But since every late adjustment to the game was done to fight the turtle meta, it would at least even the playing (and balancing) field.

The shinobi it totally op on console, because it is too fast to react to and if you face one of them, your only hope is, that they **** up. Why? Because they were designed and adjusted with the turtle mets in mind. On console, even passive and thoughtful playing does not help you, because you either get overwhelmed by its speed or their turtle breakers.

No, Shinobi is not OP, you just don't know how to counter yet. The dude has been out less than a week. That's like going to a job and having no training, then your manager coming to you and saying "hey we are letting you go, the job is kicking your ***." But you look at the guy and say, "But, I've been here four days, Im just now learning the motions."

Alustar.
05-20-2017, 01:07 PM
That's fine - but we play on our sofas not desks. I have a rather small living room and my tv screen is only 37'. To play on a gaming monitor, I would have to sit in front of it. That's not how anybody wants to play in a living room.

Btw. I did not find the line where the devs say, that I have to buy a gaming monitor for my xbox to compensate their ****ed up balancing. Maybe I should send them the bill?

uh, you don't have to play at a desk to enjoy a screen of any size. Placement and location are key. I have two screens on my set up, one a monitor for my PC/gaming when I feel like having a second person over, the other as my main screen. all of this dont from the comfort and sactity of my futon. ALso, smaller tv is 32"" and the larger one is at least 48? i dont know. Pretty nice when my friends come over and I can dual screen and PvP till I drop.

RatedChaotic
05-20-2017, 02:01 PM
I dont need to reconfigure my entertainment system to enjoy this game. I use a 55in with surround sound and an elite controller. I'm happy gaming with this setup. I dont feel like I need to do all that to maximize performance because frankly I dont care. If I'm enjoying myself thats all that matters. I dont need a pro set up because well I'm not a pro.

Its not only me that uses this xbox. My whole household does for movies, TV, and gaming. I dont have the luxury of a man cave or gaming room. Last time I did the cops showed up because the neighbors could hear my raids in WoW.

Adjusting the times on the indicators could actually back fire on us.

Lumina-US
05-20-2017, 08:16 PM
OK, nice troll?So everyone who doesn't back up YOUR personal point of view is a troll? - go suck an egg you narrow-minded dimwit.

Not one thing i said qualifies me as a troll, but whatever floats your boat...

Antonioj26
05-20-2017, 08:30 PM
Well, Antonioj, new Hardware should not be mandatory for anyone to enjoy stuff. I mean guys that bought 2016 hdr tv's might have display lag as bad as 50ms with a new set - that's not good. They just recently improved on this. And many aren't even aware. Because in the past, this stuff was .. it didn't matter.
We had our console fighter, optimized for consoles. Most capeable of allowing couch coop. We had a hella lot of games, but when did screen lag become something you really felt? Normally never, because developers figured in there might be some and created their games as responsive as possible. So you never realized this was a thing.

For Honor is different in this regard. Should we now, to have a "good time" all switch to monitors? I'd say no. Besides, most might even be worse off - big screen gaming simply has it's own feel and benefits. But a slight adjustment from the developer's side might already improve the life throughout the board. So I really wonder even considering buying new Hardware instead of asking for a quality of life improvement ..

I didn't say anything about having to get a monitor to have a good time. Even with my tvs limited capabilities I have a great time but if you want the best performance you'll have to pay for it like everything in life. This game isn't any different than others in that regard, many fps suffer from the same display lag where milliseconds count. For some that's important enough to fork over a few extra bucks and for others not so much. It's like a casual runner complaining about having to buy the best shoes to shave a couple seconds off of his mile.

dekot11
05-20-2017, 08:37 PM
But since every late adjustment to the game was done to fight the turtle meta, it would at least even the playing (and balancing) field.

The shinobi it totally op on console, because it is too fast to react to and if you face one of them, your only hope is, that they **** up. Why? Because they were designed and adjusted with the turtle mets in mind. On console, even passive and thoughtful playing does not help you, because you either get overwhelmed by its speed or their turtle breakers.

deadzone change helped a lot, try it out.

DrExtrem
05-20-2017, 08:38 PM
I didn't say anything about having to get a monitor to have a good time. Even with my tvs limited capabilities I have a great time but if you want the best performance you'll have to pay for it like everything in life. This game isn't any different than others in that regard, many fps suffer from the same display lag where milliseconds count. For some that's important enough to fork over a few extra bucks and for others not so much. It's like a casual runner complaining about having to buy the best shoes to shave a couple seconds off of his mile.

That's the core problem.

No game on a console should need custom hardware to be remotely playable. Even playing field - that's why we play on console and that's why a game on console needs to be adjusted to its platform. That's the basic deal - we pay apr. 10-20 €/$ more and get a ge customized to our stock hardware and average home entertainment center setup.

Antonioj26
05-20-2017, 08:39 PM
deadzone change helped a lot, try it out.

Significant difference I notice people blocking 15 frame Lights more consistently

DrExtrem
05-20-2017, 08:39 PM
deadzone change helped a lot, try it out.

Already did. Its a ****ing band aid - a drop in the well ... nothing more.

Antonioj26
05-20-2017, 08:49 PM
That's the core problem.

No game on a console should need custom hardware to be remotely playable. Even playing field - that's why we play on console and that's why a game on console needs to be adjusted to its platform. That's the basic deal - we pay apr. 10-20 €/$ more and get a ge customized to our stock hardware and average home entertainment center setup.

But its more than playable so that's a gross exaggeration. If they adjust it those with better hardware are still going to have an advantage so no point. There's no way to make it a completely playing field without downgrading it in someway and even then I don't know if that would work. We shouldn't limit everyone to beef chuck because you don't want to pay a few extra bucks for a ribeye.

DrExtrem
05-20-2017, 08:51 PM
But its more than playable so that's a gross exaggeration. If they adjust it those with better hardware are still going to have an advantage so no point. There's no way to make it a completely playing field without downgrading it in someway and even then I don't know if that would work. We shouldn't limit everyone to beef chuck because you don't want to pay a few extra bucks for a ribeye.

Playable is relative.

And your comparison is borderline stupid.

Antonioj26
05-20-2017, 08:56 PM
Playable is relative.

And your comparison is borderline stupid.

If playable is relative then you just nullified your own original argument. Explain how it's stupid, if you want the best than you'll have to pay for it and that goes with everything in life. No one is going to give you a free hand out or reduce the quality of their product so you can keep up.

DrExtrem
05-20-2017, 09:26 PM
No. We payed for a product, that offers an equivalent experience to any other version.

We console players have a standard platform, for a standardized experience. Problem is, that the gameplay is not standardized, because it heavily changes with your tv and that is vastly different from the PC version.

Basically, the game is a poor console port, that gets treated like a step-child. Fun fact - other fighting games are working far better. Adjustments bely frames and not milliseconds is one example.

The devs screwed up with the console versions and are too busy fixing it on a dead platform, because PC players are usually the most vocal group in a forum.

Antonioj26
05-20-2017, 09:31 PM
No. We payed for a product, that offers an equivalent experience to any other version.

We console players have a standard platform, for a standardized experience. Problem is, that the gameplay is not standardized, because it heavily changes with your tv and that is vastly different from the PC version.

Basically, the game is a poor console port, that gets treated like a step-child. Fun fact - other fighting games are working far better. Adjustments bely frames and not milliseconds is one example.

The devs screwed up with the console versions and are too busy fixing it on a dead platform, because PC players are usually the most vocal group in a forum.

I play the console version where the defense meta is next to non existent and because if this it's a far better experience. You don't have any sort of evidence that the PC are the most vocal. The game is where it's at and it's not going to change. If you want a better gaming experience and not just for this game than all you are going to have to get better hardware.

This isn't ubis fault nor is it there problem that you have limited hardware. Should they scale it back so tvs from two decades ago can run it the best way possible or should they provide the best experience to the people who purchase the products for the exact reason of getting better quality. Why would anyone upgrade if it didn't make it better?

DrExtrem
05-20-2017, 10:29 PM
That is the other side of the coin.

The defense meta is nearly non-existent but the speed-meta is defacto the same crap - it only smells different.

You don't seem to understand what a standardized experience is or means. Every player on console should have the same chances no matter what screen the game is played on or which controller is used.
Right now, the game is unfinished and values hardware over skill and reflexes. The opposite of what fighting games are standing for.

Antonioj26
05-20-2017, 10:36 PM
That is the other side of the coin.

The defense meta is nearly non-existent but the speed-meta is defacto the same crap - it only smells different.

You don't seem to understand what a standardized experience is or means. Every player on console should have the same chances no matter what screen the game is played on or which controller is used.
Right now, the game is unfinished and values hardware over skill and reflexes. The opposite of what fighting games are standing for.

And you don't seem to understand that that's not going to happen and if you have a problem with it your going to have to upgrade. What if one player complained about his internet not being able to keep up with everyone else? What if another player plays with a tv that's 20 years old. Should we change the entire game to fit these guys? No we shouldn't. If you want to shave those couple seconds off your mile then buy some running shoes and stop sprinting in chucks. Ubi isn't going to downgrade because you are cheap, you can either adapt or fork over the $200 to get a pretty good monitor If it's really that important to you.

Lumina-US
05-20-2017, 10:38 PM
I play the console version where the defense meta is next to non existent and because if this it's a far better experience. You don't have any sort of evidence that the PC are the most vocal. The game is where it's at and it's not going to change. If you want a better gaming experience and not just for this game than all you are going to have to get better hardware.

This isn't ubis fault nor is it there problem that you have limited hardware. Should they scale it back so tvs from two decades ago can run it the best way possible or should they provide the best experience to the people who purchase the products for the exact reason of getting better quality. Why would anyone upgrade if it didn't make it better?It is Ubisofts fault - period!

You, as a console player yourself, should know best that Console-versions of games should be perfectly optimized to run on the system you chose to buy the game for - no matter what TV/Monitor/Beamer/whatever dafuq display you have in use.

There's tons of evidence all over that Ubisoft failed terribly in optimizing this game for consoles and Staffers/Community representatives themselves said that the company has no plans at all to do separeted optimizing for either Consoles or PC.

So in other words, ALL they care for is catering to the likes and dislikes of their less than 4k PC players that are still left playing the game and that's about it.

Yet, you are still here defending Ubisofts doing up to the silver horizon, but i tell you something, it's not going to help at all.

Oh and btw. Games older AND newer than For Honor, do not have such problems, in several First Person-shooters, as well as Mortal Kombat X or DoA5 it doesn't matter a single fuaq if you are playing on a 7 years old 3D TV, or a super new UHD TV with the latest standards or even a gaming monitor.

Why, because those games run perfectly optimized, specifically for PS4/XB1 consoles, yet "For Honor" clearly DOESN'T and since all the guys at Ubisoft are PC players only (literally not one penguin there plays the game on either console!) that's NEVER going to change.

Antonioj26
05-20-2017, 10:42 PM
It is Ubisofts fault - period!

You, as a console player yourself, should know best that Console-versions of games should run perfectly optimized to run on the system you chose to buy the game for - no matter what TV/Monitor/Beamer/whatever dafuq display you have in use.

There's tons of evidence all over that Ubisoft failed terribly in optimizing this game for consoles and Staffers/Community representatives themselves said that the company has no plans at all to do seperetated optimizing for either Consoles or PC.

So in other words, ALL they care for is catering to the likes and dislikes of PC their less than 4k PC players that are still left playing the game.

Yet, you are still here defending Ubisofts doing up to the silver horizon, but i tell you something, it's not going to help at all.

Oh and btw. Games older AND newer than For Honor, do not have such problems, in several First Person-shooters, as well as Mortal Kombat X or DoA5 it doesn't matter a single fuaq if you are playing on a 7 years old 3D TV, or a super new UHD TV with the latest standards or even a gaming monitor.

Why, because those games run perfectly optimized, specifically for PS4/XB1 consoles, yet "For Honor" clearly DOESN'T and since all the guys at Ubisoft are PC players only (literally not one penguin there play the game on either console!) that's NEVER going to change.

If it's that big of a problem then upgrade, adapt, or don't play. It's really not difficult.

Lumina-US
05-20-2017, 10:55 PM
If it's that big of a problem then upgrade, adapt, or don't play. It's really not difficult.Sure Mr. Antonio, you're most welcome to buy every XB1/PS4 player out there a brand new super expensive TV or whatever display they prefer playing on.

As for "or don't play", i play whatever dafuq i please and it's not on my end to optimize the experience, but the company's that makes such games!

If Ubisoft wants to sale this game for XBOX and PS, then they should also optimize it for XBOX and PS - end of story!

DrExtrem
05-20-2017, 10:55 PM
And you don't seem to understand that that's not going to happen and if you have a problem with it your going to have to upgrade. What if one player complained about his internet not being able to keep up with everyone else? What if another player plays with a tv that's 20 years old. Should we change the entire game to fit these guys? No we shouldn't. If you want to shave those couple seconds off your mile then buy some running shoes and stop sprinting in chucks. Ubi isn't going to downgrade because you are cheap, you can either adapt or fork over the $200 to get a pretty good monitor If it's really that important to you.

Bull.

They released a game on a standardised platform but they did not deliver.

Fast attackers are far too strong on console. Despite knowing, they made heroes even faster (valkyrie) and released ****ing fast ones and made things even worse.

They failed. They in fact don't only have o e bad meta in their game. They have two. Speed and defense.

This is like a Batman game l, that has been ported to PC. Subpar, unfinished, bad.

Antonioj26
05-20-2017, 11:06 PM
Sure Mr. Antonio, you're most welcome to buy every XB1/PS4 player out there a brand new super expensive TV or whatever display they prefer playing on.

As for "or don't play", i play whatever dafuq i please and it's not on my end to optimize the experience, but the company's that makes such games!

If Ubisoft wants to sale this game for XBOX and PS, then they should also optimize it for XBOX and PS - end of story!

I'm doing just fine with my tv and I'm happy to prove it to anyone who thinks it's necasssary to have a $2000 tv of $200 monitor. I'm sure I would be a little better with those but I don't find it necessary. If you are having problems then sucks to be you, stop blaming ubi for your poor performance. I tested my reaction times on my PC and on my PS4 and it's 230 and 340. That's enough to block the fastest attacks of the games especially if you know how to read your opponent. Stop using it as a crutch or as an excuse.

Antonioj26
05-20-2017, 11:07 PM
Bull.

They released a game on a standardised platform but they did not deliver.

Fast attackers are far too strong on console. Despite knowing, they made heroes even faster (valkyrie) and released ****ing fast ones and made things even worse.

They failed. They in fact don't only have o e bad meta in their game. They have two. Speed and defense.

This is like a Batman game l, that has been ported to PC. Subpar, unfinished, bad.

I hate to repeat myself but I'll say it again since it seems I'm not getting through to you. Adapt, upgrade, or quit. Complaining isn't going to make you a better player

DrExtrem
05-20-2017, 11:12 PM
I hate to repeat myself but I'll say it again since it seems I'm not getting through to you. Adapt, upgrade, or quit. Complaining isn't going to make you a better player

Its quitting then.

Have fun on empty servers. Oh yeah right. What servers?

Antonioj26
05-20-2017, 11:13 PM
Its quitting then.

Have fun on empty servers. Oh yeah right. What servers?

No sweat off my back I'm on PlayStation anyway.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-20-2017, 11:16 PM
Its quitting then.

Have fun on empty servers. Oh yeah right. What servers?

I hate to agree with Anton, but he is right.


Its possible to block them. Not 100% of the time, but no attack should be 100% blockable.


As for you leaving? Buh Bye.


You people who blame everything on the game and think anything that beats you is OP. Instead of looking in the mirror and seeing what mistakes you are making as a player.


You all can leave. You won't be missed.

dekot11
05-20-2017, 11:19 PM
Honestly there are probably bigger gaps in performance between PC users than console players. Console is what? TV? maybe a better controller? PC players have different monitors, much wider selection of controllers, hardware that directly affects fps, etc etc

DrExtrem
05-20-2017, 11:26 PM
I hate to agree with Anton, but he is right.


Its possible to block them. Not 100% of the time, but no attack should be 100% blockable.


As for you leaving? Buh Bye.


You people who blame everything on the game and think anything that beats you is OP. Instead of looking in the mirror and seeing what mistakes you are making as a player.


You all can leave. You won't be missed.

If you believe that, you are not wise.

But you can still play against the cheating bots I guess.

Antonioj26
05-20-2017, 11:29 PM
If you believe that, you are not wise.

But you can still play against the cheating bots I guess.

If you are referring to bots as "cheating bots" than a monitor is the least of your problems.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-20-2017, 11:38 PM
If you believe that, you are not wise.

But you can still play against the cheating bots I guess.

As long as there are enough people for the get into matches idc.


You people who do nothing but blame the game for all your problems are nothing but a cancer to competitive games.

DrExtrem
05-20-2017, 11:40 PM
If you are referring to bots as "cheating bots" than a monitor is the least of your problems.

Well. Reading the controller input to react perfectly to every move you make and activating revenge between two strikes if the wardens double side light, while ignoring recovery times is cheating.

But yeah. The few hundred players with perfect setups and 1337-skillz are sure enough to keep the game alive.

DrExtrem
05-20-2017, 11:41 PM
As long as there are enough people for the get into matches idc.


You people who do nothing but blame the game for all your problems are nothing but a cancer to competitive games.

No. People who love splitting the community, while crapping on "less gifted" players are.

Btw. you have created enough posts blaming the game instead if yourself.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-20-2017, 11:46 PM
No. People who love splitting the community, while crapping on "less gifted" players are.

Btw. you have created enough posts blaming the game instead if yourself.

Yep and I have admitted I was wrong for doing so every single time.


Not saying ALL issues are on the players. Just most of them.


The constant whining over EVERY SINGLE THING that kills people gets old. Its why the Conqueror is the single worst hero in the game right now. Complainers destroyed him.


I would rather have smug jerks than complainers as a playerbase any day.

Antonioj26
05-20-2017, 11:52 PM
Well. Reading the controller input to react perfectly to every move you make and activating revenge between two strikes if the wardens double side light, while ignoring recovery times is cheating.

But yeah. The few hundred players with perfect setups and 1337-skillz are sure enough to keep the game alive.

Don't have any of that and still will go 20 rounds without a level 3 beating me but I'm one of those guys who just gets better when he loses rather than making excuses.

Antonioj26
05-20-2017, 11:54 PM
Yep and I have admitted I was wrong for doing so every single time.


Not saying ALL issues are on the players. Just most of them.


The constant whining over EVERY SINGLE THING that kills people gets old. Its why the Conqueror is the single worst hero in the game right now. Complainers destroyed him.


I would rather have smug jerks than complainers as a playerbase any day.

If cocky or whiny are the two chooses than I'm right there with you in choosing the former.

dekot11
05-21-2017, 12:42 AM
Well. Reading the controller input to react perfectly to every move you make and activating revenge between two strikes if the wardens double side light, while ignoring recovery times is cheating.

But yeah. The few hundred players with perfect setups and 1337-skillz are sure enough to keep the game alive.

You're right, bots don't follow the same rules. They'll tech guarantee GBs and stuff but so what? They're bots. You should start playing the game against real players. I recall a post by you saying you only play against bots, if I'm wrong about that I apologize but you shouldn't be talking about balance if you do indeed only play bots.

Herbstlicht
05-21-2017, 01:03 AM
Uhm, has gotten rather lively here ...
Well, I think some are getting this wrong. I did not say "disadvantage" elitist. the best players will always stay the best, no matter what.

However, try this perspective. You are rather new to the game, working on constant improvement. But weirdly, you just can't block those lights though some opponents can.
So is this guy bad?

No, of course not. Everyone took his time learning and by now some people parry by animation or react tonsound cues, subconciously. But those tiny little indicators that should tell you when to press your button, won't exactly appear at the right time for the majority of TV-users.

This was the reason i did some digging on sites that tell about display lag and the most common values. Depending on the year, those vary greatly. I did go with a very low value, because "too much" might really affect many players in weird ways. 20 to 25 ms though will hardly be noticed on a concious level for a veteran player. It will get noticed though when practicing against new heros or trying to get some specific parry timings off.

To maybe improve visibility of the specific parry frames i suggested inserting 1 single frame to the flashing animation.

So .. of course, I can not tell If it in fact would make everything better. If this single frame would mean anything. But I am rather sure on the slight delay of the indicators to be a real improvement for the vast majority of Tv-set players. This is the sole reason I did post it.

Don't see the need to get all personal about ones own skill levels.
And this is to Antonio: we play a big multiplayer game here, that you, I, and many more do enjoy. Some playera try to be constructive and add some solutions to make it possibly even better. What would help is not a "lol, noob, git good"-mentality. It would be a constructive approach to why this suggestion would be bad.

My pro's were: easier reactability and feel of control on console would help with a balancing more in line with PC - no seperate balancing needed. Lesser complains about assassin-classes or moves people have problems reacting too. Because, you know, the real deal is often more difficult then how it seems on a 60 fps YouTube video.

The only con I see would be the following: people with pc-screen would have an indicator 15-24 ms in advance (depending on the screen and the added delay) if they did activate this option. A problem? Well, no ... because you just put your timing off, this time only in another direction ...


So I really would be happy about some more constructive posts. Feel free to do whatever you like though, because .. for reasons, you know :)

Lumina-US
05-21-2017, 08:11 AM
You people who do nothing but blame the game for all your problems are nothing but a cancer to competitive games.And people like you, who do simply nothing but always jumping to a game company's defense to cover their tardish work, are even worse.

I haven't seen ANYTHING ELSE from you than jumping to Ubi's defense with sword and shield, once people complain about no matter what it's about.

Ubisoft should give you the medal of honor for that, since it's simply not possible to crawl into a company's behind any deeper.

You suck, git gud, it's your connection or that's not Ubi's fault is all you ever tell others, but for your info, you are not getting a single bonus in-game, by being their best White-Knight in the Horsebox, so you might as well just quit the act and (just for once) admit, that Ubisoft shot themselves in the foot with this game.

EmeraldCthulhu
05-23-2017, 11:37 AM
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On topic - when a person buys a game, the thing should be optimised for the platfor it is played on. It's as simple as that. And For Honor is not - attacks come way too fast, not giving players time to react. And soplayers don't enjoy themselvs. Any argument about changing hardware is just so damn stupid.

Do you people remember the whole Arkham Knight party, when the game came out working perfectly on consoles and it was just a mess on PC? The only differance here is scale, but the principle is the same - developer didn't care to optimise the game for a certain platform. But I guess you guys would just argue that anyone who bought Arkham Knight should also buy a new PC if it wasn't working correctly.