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View Full Version : Centurion denies feints???



MasterChiefPON
05-19-2017, 04:11 AM
Hi, I'm a Kensei main and I have a concern about Centurion. This is not about what Kensei needs btw.

Since I don't have an unblockable to initiate, feints are my bread and butter but Centurion heavies are so fast that thay are coming through some of my feints.

For example, I canceled my top unblockable to do a light, the centurion fell for it, but his heavy came before I could even hit my light, then I canceled one heavy to gb and it hit me right away.

Why does the centurion has heavies with a light attack speed?? I don't know yet which feints it affects because the characters are new but that's what I'm experiencing.

Have you noticed it?

Jasado
05-19-2017, 04:28 AM
His first heavy is insanely fast, actually.

There is a thread offering some purported frame data, and yeah, his heavy IS basically as fast as a light uncharged.

You make a really valid point in terms of that he invalidates the exact thing high level Kensei players must rely on to reliably do damage and not get parried.

Why be skilled when you can just mash heavy and beat any option you choose, right?

He could probably heavy you out of a totally unfeinted overhead heavy too.

Guess you better loosen up those light attack keys and never ever execute him outside of a grab/heavy, lmao.

MasterChiefPON
05-19-2017, 04:28 AM
Also, I feel that the time window to dodge some his unblockables after taking a hit are so little that for some characters it's like dodging a heatbutt on reaction. I play on console by the way.

MasterChiefPON
05-19-2017, 04:36 AM
His first heavy is insanely fast, actually.

There is a thread offering some purported frame data, and yeah, his heavy IS basically as fast as a light uncharged.

You make a really valid point in terms of that he invalidates the exact thing high level Kensei players must rely on to reliably do damage and not get parried.

Why be skilled when you can just mash heavy and beat any option you choose, right?

He could probably heavy you out of a totally unfeinted overhead heavy too.

Guess you better loosen up those light attack keys and never ever execute him outside of a grab/heavy, lmao.

It's crazy, next time I'm gonna try to cancel it and inmediately heavy in the same direction to see if I get the parry.

dekot11
05-19-2017, 04:51 AM
really my heavy gets blocked parried quite enough really. as a cent main. Also think of the weapon we are using.. not exactely a knights claymore... not only that, but our reach is also incredily short compared to other classes.jump atk is expected by now... dodged and parried. kick is completely dodgeable and telegraphed. been punished enough... so yeah I dont see the problem. not exactely light atk spd trust me on this.

you don't think it's a problem that his heavies are so fast they're immune to feints?

kumanchik
05-19-2017, 04:55 AM
so a character cant counter your play style? funny

dekot11
05-19-2017, 05:01 AM
so a character cant counter your play style? funny

lol are you serious? feinting is an integral part of the gameplay. that's like having a character who's immune to blocking.

MasterChiefPON
05-19-2017, 05:07 AM
Also kick is easily dodged, I'm talking about jab, it feels like if he hits me with a heavy my window to dodge is really small and if connection is not that good it feels like after a hit it's super hard to dodge the jab (after a hit, not after a block).

MasterChiefPON
05-19-2017, 05:12 AM
really my heavy gets blocked parried quite enough really. as a cent main. Also think of the weapon we are using.. not exactely a knights claymore... not only that, but our reach is also incredily short compared to other classes.jump atk is expected by now... dodged and parried. kick is completely dodgeable and telegraphed. been punished enough... so yeah I dont see the problem. not exactely light atk spd trust me on this.

I'm not talking about raw heavies or lunge attack, I can parry those too. I'm talking about the heavy that comes if Centurion falls for a feint, it comes so quickly that it denies all options except to try to parry it and it can be canceled.

VJWalker85
05-19-2017, 05:39 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1671139-Can-i-have-a-second-opinion-from-you-about-this there's a Ubi mod on this thread that says he will forward the thread to his dev team. This heavy speed thing should make it's way over to that thread.

MasterChiefPON
05-19-2017, 06:01 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1671139-Can-i-have-a-second-opinion-from-you-about-this there's a Ubi mod on this thread that says he will forward the thread to his dev team. This heavy speed thing should make it's way over to that thread.

Thanks, I'm going to mention it there.

Duuklah
05-19-2017, 08:08 AM
His heavies are proven faster than most lights..

I have a few other gripes to Add..

1. The wall splat punish that never ends from Centurion.
2. A charged heavy with infinite release possibility to prevent LEARNING parry timing.
3. When Fully charged a Heavy that guarantees...... wait for it...... ANOTHER HEAVY!!!!
4. Kick that leads into the whole combo that stuns you making parrying a VERY difficult attack to parry impossible. The kick comes out VERY fast as well(600ms).
5. Heavies that are as fast or faster than most characters lights.

Centurion:

Kick - 600ms
Side Lights - 500 / 500 / 600
Top Lights - 500 / 500 / 500
Side Heavies - 600 / 500 - Faster than Lights from most other classes.....
Charged - 1000 / 1200
Top Heavies - 600 / 600
Charged - 1000 / 1200
Jab / Charged - 700 / 1000
Zone Attack - 600
Dash Heavy - 900
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxzWHAVH-hc

Duuklah
05-19-2017, 12:25 PM
Any reply from mods yet?

Herbstlicht
05-19-2017, 12:58 PM
Oh. That kinda explains some of my problems with parrying him ..
Playing Kensei and Nobushi as well, on console. Guess overall this problem will be way more pronounced here.

But despite that, some people say they consistently parry it. Any advice what to look for? I really struggle against those attacks for the following reasons: Different range means different timing, i guess about 100-200ms? So depending on how far away he is, the parry window changes. Then there is a timeframe you can charge up in and release, so this is variable too, making it hard for me. So is there some position, when his arm moves into this and this position, whatever kinda clue, that might be helping?

And concerning beating a Centurion as a Kensei. Well, if he plays as good as you, just forget it. Kensei seems to be completely countered by Centurion. Another thing concerning feinting. It takes hella lot of stamina. Guess what Centurion loves most ..

However, that is a problem against Shinobi too. If you start your feints or start wiffing, they can go into their ranged moves. All I can say is he is swift enough to punish 1 single light wiff with a ranged guardbreak following into his deadly combo. Did it a few times already. However, Shinobi is way more doable. As long as they aren't defence-gods, you can beat them. Ah well, Kensei against defence gods is dead any way because there is nothing he can do for guaranteed damage ^-^

DeLatv
05-19-2017, 02:18 PM
I belive that they need to finally start implementing gear into 1v1s, the new changes are intresting and might give an aditional ballance method for the game... Diffirent builds, n stuff.

Before you go ape ****, think of positives it can bring to the turtle meta...

Kenseis could do chip damage and force opponents to open up.

Kitsune..
05-21-2017, 07:08 AM
Just bumping this thread while we have UbiJurassic and UbiNoty here. Could you please pass this info to the dev team.
Also I've noticed that when I'm doing my side heavy finisher Centurion is able to attack me and to block my attack afterwards, so no real trade occurs... I've never seen anyone doing this trick to me, though it happened only vs lvl 3 Cent bot so far.

Teh1one
05-21-2017, 07:29 AM
new chars = op
to sell more dlc
after the early acces they get nerfed

Kitsune..
05-21-2017, 09:41 AM
new chars = op
to sell more dlc
after the early acces they get nerfed

Well, the stated problem might be a Kensei specific issue that might be addressed within the promised Kensei Love Patch <3
Considering the new heroes, I have no particular difficulties vs Shinobi, probably because I can fight him at the distance where his kick doesn't really get me. As for the Centurion, after playing only for like an hour or two vs lvl 3 bot so far, I can say that his insane tracking must be tuned down. Also I like the charged heavies mechanics very much, you can play with the rhythm a lot and it's amazing. I would like to have something like that for my Kensei to trick ppl a bit.

Kitsune..
06-09-2017, 09:46 AM
Well, considering that the upcoming Kensei "buffs" will not fix this issue, I would like to bring this thread up. Are you going to fix this, guys? Or is it working as intended?

Any signs of life from Ubi team are heartly welcome here, at least noone will sit with surprised face at the stream saying he knew nothing about this sht.

guor6800
06-10-2017, 01:35 AM
Well, considering that the upcoming Kensei "buffs" will not fix this issue, I would like to bring this thread up. Are you going to fix this, guys? Or is it working as intended?

Any signs of life from Ubi team are heartly welcome here, at least noone will sit with surprised face at the stream saying he knew nothing about this sht.

Centurion works as intented. Confirmed by devs.

JibletHunter
06-10-2017, 01:46 AM
His first heavy is insanely fast, actually.

There is a thread offering some purported frame data, and yeah, his heavy IS basically as fast as a light uncharged.

You make a really valid point in terms of that he invalidates the exact thing high level Kensei players must rely on to reliably do damage and not get parried.

Why be skilled when you can just mash heavy and beat any option you choose, right?

He could probably heavy you out of a totally unfeinted overhead heavy too.

Guess you better loosen up those light attack keys and never ever execute him outside of a grab/heavy, lmao.

He can knock kensei out of a raw side heavy if he starts it immediately after. My friend can do it on reaction pretty often by I only do it when I get lucky.

basic-one
06-10-2017, 02:06 AM
According to Ubisoft, it is perfectly balanced that the centurion's heavies are as fast as other character's lights, but do 2x-3x the damage per hit.

Shakti.
06-10-2017, 02:27 AM
Just taking the ball here to bring my message again. Just fix nerf, do something about the centurion. Is too strong for no reason especially against some heroes. It's frustrating and only bring bullism and rage in the game. No fun added.

Alchemist..
06-10-2017, 04:33 AM
His heavy is 600ms and ye cent heavy can interrupt feint into gb from all chars and also warden bash on reaction, its working better than light because heavys comming from front, same as second light from kensei, lights coming from side so they need longer windup to connect, thats why it make feeling like heavy is faster than light, but it isnt, heavys are 600ms

Kitsune..
06-11-2017, 06:00 AM
Bumping it once again.

CrunaCross
06-11-2017, 08:51 AM
His heavies are proven faster than most lights..

I have a few other gripes to Add..

1. The wall splat punish that never ends from Centurion.
2. A charged heavy with infinite release possibility to prevent LEARNING parry timing.
3. When Fully charged a Heavy that guarantees...... wait for it...... ANOTHER HEAVY!!!!
4. Kick that leads into the whole combo that stuns you making parrying a VERY difficult attack to parry impossible. The kick comes out VERY fast as well(600ms).
5. Heavies that are as fast or faster than most characters lights.

Centurion:

Kick - 600ms
Side Lights - 500 / 500 / 600
Top Lights - 500 / 500 / 500
Side Heavies - 600 / 500 - Faster than Lights from most other classes.....
Charged - 1000 / 1200
Top Heavies - 600 / 600
Charged - 1000 / 1200
Jab / Charged - 700 / 1000
Zone Attack - 600
Dash Heavy - 900
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxzWHAVH-hc

This actually is a very nice collection of the problems with Centurion. And I still can't understand what the devs are thinking by looking at this data only. But looking at their streams and overall feedback they give from their "collected data" they simply say something like: "We know that it's broken, but that's his kit". I simply can't understand this. Maybe they are just doing it for the "good of the game" or something since many people who were not skilled enough before started scoring wins and it makes more people happy or something. I don't know.

Enjolras_ABC
06-11-2017, 10:11 AM
Hi, I'm a Kensei main and I have a concern about Centurion. This is not about what Kensei needs btw.

Since I don't have an unblockable to initiate, feints are my bread and butter but Centurion heavies are so fast that thay are coming through some of my feints.

For example, I canceled my top unblockable to do a light, the centurion fell for it, but his heavy came before I could even hit my light, then I canceled one heavy to gb and it hit me right away.

Why does the centurion has heavies with a light attack speed?? I don't know yet which feints it affects because the characters are new but that's what I'm experiencing.

Have you noticed it?

I am a Kensei main and i understand your problem perfectly well but don't forget that it is also hard for centurion to FEINT his heavy because it is very fast. Most centurions can't feint their heavys which gives you an opportunity for parry. You just have to learn that weird timing for parry after your heavy feint. Other than that an experienced feinter can wreck you with centurion because he has the fastest heavy into GB feint. I am not saying "git gud" i hate centurion and he needs a nerf.

Kitsune..
06-11-2017, 10:19 AM
I am a Kensei main and i understand your problem perfectly well but don't forget that it is also hard for centurion to FEINT his heavy because it is very fast.
Slow it down, both problems solved.

Duuklah
06-11-2017, 05:34 PM
This actually is a very nice collection of the problems with Centurion. And I still can't understand what the devs are thinking by looking at this data only. But looking at their streams and overall feedback they give from their "collected data" they simply say something like: "We know that it's broken, but that's his kit". I simply can't understand this. Maybe they are just doing it for the "good of the game" or something since many people who were not skilled enough before started scoring wins and it makes more people happy or something. I don't know.

Thanks for the shoutout.

A modification to #3... The fully charged heavy become unblockable adding to the frustration.. He can also cancel it into a GB..

Man its like god mode vs normal players.

Duuklah
06-11-2017, 05:37 PM
Ive had many a feint into heavy interrupted by a centurion heavy.

It's incredibly unfair especially when you are playing Kensei who relies so heavily on feints.

MasterChiefPON
06-11-2017, 10:11 PM
I am a Kensei main and i understand your problem perfectly well but don't forget that it is also hard for centurion to FEINT his heavy because it is very fast. Most centurions can't feint their heavys which gives you an opportunity for parry. You just have to learn that weird timing for parry after your heavy feint. Other than that an experienced feinter can wreck you with centurion because he has the fastest heavy into GB feint. I am not saying "git gud" i hate centurion and he needs a nerf.

I know, I made this thread back then because it sucks you can't do all your feints against Centurion but I now rely on parries against him, especially things he can't cancel like Eagle's tallon, his zone attack, light attacks and the beautiful thing against Centurion as Kensei is that if you have a wall near, your top unblockable hurts.

UbiJurassic
06-11-2017, 11:30 PM
Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I don't believe we have ever commented if this is intended or not, so I'll bring it up to the team for discussion.

Also in the future, instead of bumping the thread for our attention, just send a UbiNoty, FredEx919, or myself a private message asking us to take a look at it. It's against forum rules to bump threads and we'd rather not close threads with important info because it was bumped excessively. :)

Chucky_Jones
06-12-2017, 02:57 AM
I have figured out a solution for Kensei at least. Just feint into grasping pounce without changing guard direction and you will superior block the heavy and get a free gb.

MasterChiefPON
06-12-2017, 03:13 AM
I have figured out a solution for Kensei at least. Just feint into grasping pounce without changing guard direction and you will superior block the heavy and get a free gb.

That's a good one, or if you feint on top guard you can go to helm splitter too and start the mix up.

MasterChiefPON
06-12-2017, 03:43 AM
Fix the OP toon

BUMP!!!!

Plz don't ruin this thread, we are actually discussing something. If you keep bumping it you only are gonna get it closed.

Chucky_Jones
06-12-2017, 03:47 AM
That's a good one, or if you feint on top guard you can go to helm splitter too and start the mix up.
There isn't really a situation where going for helmspittler is better then gb. A gb plus side heavy will deal 25 damage and leave you on the chain finisher, and the helmsplitter will do only 20. Plus if you are near a wall you can throw and do top unblockable.

MasterChiefPON
06-12-2017, 03:55 AM
There isn't really a situation where going for helmspittler is better then gb. A gb plus side heavy will deal 25 damage and leave you on the chain finisher, and the helmsplitter will do only 20. Plus if you are near a wall you can throw and do top unblockable.

I don't know, maybe if you have a tiny bit of stamina just enough for helm splitter 🤣🤣
I just thought you could also do that and said it lol

Kitsune..
06-12-2017, 04:23 AM
Also in the future, instead of bumping the thread for our attention, just send a UbiNoty, FredEx919, or myself a private message asking us to take a look at it. It's against forum rules to bump threads and we'd rather not close threads with important info because it was bumped excessively. :)
Did that 6 days ago. Should I message all of you daily to get your attention?